Seeking advice on securing job opportunity in Vietnam / HCMC

gacl212004 wrote:

Hi everyone, I am Gary from Singapore.

I started this thread in hope to learn from the existing expats working in VN. My Vietnamese girlfriend and I have been maintaining our international relationship for sometimes already. We have family plan to settle down in Vietnam, preferably in HCMC due to its dynamic financial and commercial hub of the country.

For years I have tried local head-hunters, selected recruitment companies and direct online applications (Vietnamworks, etc) to foreign companies operating in Vietnam but all in vain. Through the recommendation from Adecco, the last online interview with a local law firm (professional services sector) was conducted in Dec 2020. The MD of the company is a New Zealander, hence the HR tried to open the job to foreign candidates. If not, it is seemed that most of the time the hiring companies prefer local Vietnamese.

Unlike the Korean and Taiwanese, they are the top investors in VN. Companies from these countries deployed their own countrymen to station in their factories or operations located in Vietnam. However, this is not the case for the companies from my country in many aspects and reasons beyond what I could further elaborated in this post. Even if there is, chance for my follow countrymen to secure interview is also very rare and difficult. For instance, just last month alone, the HR from Ascott Hospitality Vietnam (affiliation of a large Singapore based property developer) asked me if they need to apply visa and work permit if they employed me. I told them of course they need for time being and thereafter she did not consider me for an interview opportunity, despite how well qualified I was for the role.

Meanwhile, the unexpected covid19 disrupted the global economy, and many countries in South East Asia were not spared. This pandemic has unfortunately added challenges to my job search and relocation plan. Although it is not an issue to me, during the country lockdown, I also noticed that the relevant VN authority has recently revised the requirements for companies to employ foreign talents. I guessed they also need to take care of the local labour.

With all these challenges in place, for one moment, I thought globalisation and free global movement of talents have died off. Instead, localisation and its effects are becoming more obvious in the recent years or maybe will be the key trend in the post covid era.

So much about my story telling upfront. Coming to the key point of this thread / post, I hope the forum participants or expats working in VN could shed some lights on how or what channel you applied and secured job opportunities / offers in VN. I presume every one's journey on ending up working in VN is diverse and different. Different professions will also face different set of challenges in their journeys. Please feel free to share whatever is convenient for you.

Thank you and I look forward to your enlightenments. Please pardon me if there is a similar forum thread / topic.

What job are you looking for? And do you have any professional qualifications?

The issue you (all of us) face it the locals work for less money and and in plentiful supply so unless you're in the top 5% of any profession that is lacking in staff you won't succeed.

Feet on the ground here since Jan 2020, job lined up and then cancelled because of covid. Interviews are hard to come by, even then the corrupt labor market is a killer.

You could be the most experienced person in the world and a local will come along.. hand over a cash bribe and land the job, usually with no experience of skills.

Teaching is an option if you are again qualified and have a lot of patience.

Hi Gary,

The best place to start is in the Vietnam Jobs Section.

Jobs in Vietnam
Find all the current job offers and wanted ads.
Create your resume to get in touch with recruiters.

I think COVID and the current lockdown are also making companies less eager to search and employ foreigners.
To get you into the country, a future potential employer needs to arrange an expert-base visa for you.
Which (I can tell you from my personal experience) involves loads of paperworks and is a lenghty, costly and tedious procedure.

Thank Jlgarbutt for your feedback
It is seems that best way is to look for overseas job opportunity with Singapore-based companies who looking to relocate fellow countrymen to station in Vietnam

RCP79 wrote:

I think COVID and the current lockdown are also making companies less eager to search and employ foreigners.

To get you into the country, a future potential employer needs to arrange an expert-base visa for you.
Which (I can tell you from my personal experience) involves loads of paperworks and is a lenghty, costly and tedious procedure.

Thank you for your feedback
Perhaps that is the reason why that HR asked me about visa and work permit before even considering me for an interview. Maybe next time I would reply as I can self-funding visa and work permits for the first year, in order to make my application for attractive. Then thereafter, let my performance speak for itself at the later stage.   Just a joke :-))))

Andybris2020 wrote:

Hi Gary,

The best place to start is in the Vietnam Jobs Section.

Jobs in Vietnam
Find all the current job offers and wanted ads.
Create your resume to get in touch with recruiters.

Hi Andy, saw your profile. You came from UK. I completed my Bachelor and Master degree in UK. Been living there for sometime. Love the country as a student

Thank you for your advice to seek job opportunity in Jobs Section of Expat.com

gacl212004 wrote:

Thank Jlgarbutt for your feedback
It is seems that best way is to look for overseas job opportunity with Singapore-based companies who looking to relocate fellow countrymen to station in Vietnam

Depends what job you are seeking. DHL for example employ people all over the world and once you have served a couple of years are happy to help you work in one of their overseas facilities should a suitable position arise.

What career are you seeking?

RCP79 wrote:

I think COVID and the current lockdown are also making companies less eager to search and employ foreigners.
To get you into the country, a future potential employer needs to arrange an expert-base visa for you.
Which (I can tell you from my personal experience) involves loads of paperworks and is a lenghty, costly and tedious procedure.

What field are you employed in?

gacl212004 wrote:

Hi everyone, I am Gary from Singapore.

I started this thread in hope to learn from the existing expats working in VN. My Vietnamese girlfriend and I have been maintaining our international relationship for sometimes already. We have family plan to settle down in Vietnam, preferably in HCMC due to its dynamic financial and commercial hub of the country.

For years I have tried local head-hunters, selected recruitment companies and direct online applications (Vietnamworks, etc) to foreign companies operating in Vietnam but all in vain. Through the recommendation from Adecco, the last online interview with a local law firm (professional services sector) was conducted in Dec 2020. The MD of the company is a New Zealander, hence the HR tried to open the job to foreign candidates. If not, it is seemed that most of the time the hiring companies prefer local Vietnamese.

Unlike the Korean and Taiwanese, they are the top investors in VN. Companies from these countries deployed their own countrymen to station in their factories or operations located in Vietnam. However, this is not the case for the companies from my country in many aspects and reasons beyond what I could further elaborated in this post. Even if there is, chance for my follow countrymen to secure interview is also very rare and difficult. For instance, just last month alone, the HR from Ascott Hospitality Vietnam (affiliation of a large Singapore based property developer) asked me if they need to apply visa and work permit if they employed me. I told them of course they need for time being and thereafter she did not consider me for an interview opportunity, despite how well qualified I was for the role.

Meanwhile, the unexpected covid19 disrupted the global economy, and many countries in South East Asia were not spared. This pandemic has unfortunately added challenges to my job search and relocation plan. Although it is not an issue to me, during the country lockdown, I also noticed that the relevant VN authority has recently revised the requirements for companies to employ foreign talents. I guessed they also need to take care of the local labour.

With all these challenges in place, for one moment, I thought globalisation and free global movement of talents have died off. Instead, localisation and its effects are becoming more obvious in the recent years or maybe will be the key trend in the post covid era.

So much about my story telling upfront. Coming to the key point of this thread / post, I hope the forum participants or expats working in VN could shed some lights on how or what channel you applied and secured job opportunities / offers in VN. I presume every one's journey on ending up working in VN is diverse and different. Different professions will also face different set of challenges in their journeys. Please feel free to share whatever is convenient for you.

Thank you and I look forward to your enlightenments. Please pardon me if there is a similar forum thread / topic.

Depending on how serious your relationship is and your future plans. You could make things a touch easier and get married. You then qualify for a spousal TRC that as of earlier this year makes you exempt for a work permit . Just an idea

IT Services.
My search took long to be honest, but I did notice there is a growing demand in Vietnam for the combination of good English skills and specific IT skills.
For example developers, business analyists, etc.

gacl212004 wrote:

Andybris2020 wrote:

Hi Gary,

The best place to start is in the Vietnam Jobs Section.

Jobs in Vietnam
Find all the current job offers and wanted ads.
Create your resume to get in touch with recruiters.

Hi Andy, saw your profile. You came from UK. I completed my Bachelor and Master degree in UK. Been living there for sometime. Love the country as a student

Thank you for your advice to seek job opportunity in Jobs Section of Expat.com

What in? You have not mentioned, also your profile says you are in Vietnam.

RCP79 wrote:

IT Services.
My search took long to be honest, but I did notice there is a growing demand in Vietnam for the combination of good English skills and specific IT skills.
For example developers, business analyists, etc.

Very vague... Systems analyst, hardware engineer, installation or just help desk?

No, I think for hardware engineering, installation and helpdesk work Vietnamese companies are perfectly capable of finding local staff.

I'm talking about experienced, English speaking business analysts or project managers.
Jobs where communication skills are key.

Just to clarify:
For me a business analyst is someone who sits between a business and IT.
Someone who has in-depth knowlegde of one or more business processes and they support the customer with those. At the same time they make sure the IT solution fits the customers needs.

Let's take DHL as an example (because I think you are familiar with them):
My best guess would be they run on SAP and processes such as supply chain management, logistics and planning are key for them.

RCP79 wrote:

No, I think for hardware engineering, installation and helpdesk work Vietnamese companies are perfectly capable of finding local staff.

I'm talking about experienced, English speaking business analysts or project managers.
Jobs where communication skills are key.

Just to clarify:
For me a business analyst is someone who sits between a business and IT.
Someone who has in-depth knowlegde of one or more business processes and they support the customer with those. At the same time they make sure the IT solution fits the customers needs.

Let's take DHL as an example (because I think you are familiar with them):
My best guess would be they run on SAP and processes such as supply chain management, logistics and planning are key for them.

So what do you actually do?

I lead the IT delivery

Back to original poster Gary what field is he looking for a job in? hard to give advice on where to look if no idea what he has a degree in?

RCP79 wrote:

I lead the IT delivery

What in a truck ?? That kind of delivery

Come on people, be real. The Vietnamese these days are perfectly capable of handling all kinds of high I CT
work, lots of them having worked in MNC for years,  capable and know English fluently. There are high tech companies in District 9 and their Universities have been ranked as top 600 in Asia,  notably national Universities in Hanoi and HCM.  Universities like the private one Duy Tan have turned out vocational graduates by dozens.  VinUniversity is out to train senior leadership and management personnel. Fulbright University has been around for years. Now you wonder why they do not have a "retirement visa". The answer is quite obvious right? "Foreign talent" is diminishing by the day, and last I heard, many have left....in view of Covid..

Swee Loke wrote:

Come on people, be real. The Vietnamese these days are perfectly capable of handling all kinds of high I CT
work, lots of them having worked in MNC for years,  capable and know English fluently. There are high tech companies in District 9 and their Universities have been ranked as top 600 in Asia,  notably national Universities in Hanoi and HCM.  Universities like the private one Duy Tan have turned out vocational graduates by dozens.  VinUniversity is out to train senior leadership and management personnel. Fulbright University has been around for years. Now you wonder why they do not have a "retirement visa". The answer is quite obvious right? "Foreign talent" is diminishing by the day, and last I heard, many have left....in view of Covid..

Know English fluently?, Ive lived here for 14-years and the amount of very good English speakers I have I could count on one hand.

The Vietnamese are proving they are perfectly capable of churning out conglomerates,  clear examples being VINGROUP, Vietnam Airlines, Vinamilk and so on. Although being Asian, it would be ideal for Korean firms that their employees know the language, and Japanese likewise. The top investors for Vietnam in 2020 were Singapore , Japan, China, Hongkong and Taiwan. Seems its better to know Singlish (better chance). And of course, the Koreans have been around long too. The need to know and master English seems fading. That seems the observable trend, at least in the Asian hemisphere..

Hey, Gary from Singapore, my take is there may be Singapore firms wanting you, but they may need you to know Vietnamese to navigate the local intricacies. Not to mention, the locals have their WAY of doing things hor....and it's challenging to say the least...

colinoscapee wrote:

Swee Loke wrote:

Come on people, be real. The Vietnamese these days are perfectly capable of handling all kinds of high I CT
work, lots of them having worked in MNC for years,  capable and know English fluently. There are high tech companies in District 9 and their Universities have been ranked as top 600 in Asia,  notably national Universities in Hanoi and HCM.  Universities like the private one Duy Tan have turned out vocational graduates by dozens.  VinUniversity is out to train senior leadership and management personnel. Fulbright University has been around for years. Now you wonder why they do not have a "retirement visa". The answer is quite obvious right? "Foreign talent" is diminishing by the day, and last I heard, many have left....in view of Covid..

Know English fluently?, Ive lived here for 14-years and the amount of very good English speakers I have I could count on one hand.

And I married one and took her out of the country so there goes 20% of the fluent speakers.  I do agree with you that there is a severe shortage of good English speaking Vietnamese.  I tried to talk many Vietnamese girls into skipping an hour trolling facebook and zalo and spending an hour each day learning English and in a year their lives would be better.  Got zero takers.

Swee Loke wrote:

The Vietnamese are proving they are perfectly capable of churning out conglomerates,  clear examples being VINGROUP, Vietnam Airlines, Vinamilk and so on. Although being Asian, it would be ideal for Korean firms that their employees know the language, and Japs likewise. The top investors for Vietnam in 2020 were Singapore , Japan, China, Hongkong and Taiwan. Seems its better to know Singlish (better chance). And of course, the Koreans have been around long too. The need to know and master English seems fading. That seems the observable trend, at least in the Asian hemisphere..

I agree, but the same level of standard as western or other Asian businesses is still not quite there.

Vietnam airlines for example, one if my favourite airlines right up there with Singapore in my opinion still hires people based on who you know and what you know. Even the more menial jobs are still highly sought after with people paying as much as 10,000 USD to land a job.

Vingroup, the cars are largely based on European ones.. a form  badge engineering. The SUV is a BMW X5 in drag...

Vingroup again.. try living in a vinhomes development. Even in central park on the 30th floor noise form the street below can be deafening.

Vinmart, especially the smaller stores, run by kids with no clue on stock management.

VinEnglush schools... Terrible levels of education .walk in . Hello teacher, what is your name, where are you from... And that's pretty much it.

Vietnam is still a developing country and is getting better, anyone looking to live and work here is in for a bit of a culture change.

Having said that, local business no matter the size is always (legally enforceable) going to choice local talent over foreigners...

Swee Loke wrote:

Come on people, be real. The Vietnamese these days are perfectly capable of handling all kinds of high I CT
work, lots of them having worked in MNC for years,  capable and know English fluently. There are high tech companies in District 9 and their Universities have been ranked as top 600 in Asia,  notably national Universities in Hanoi and HCM.  Universities like the private one Duy Tan have turned out vocational graduates by dozens.  VinUniversity is out to train senior leadership and management personnel. Fulbright University has been around for years. Now you wonder why they do not have a "retirement visa". The answer is quite obvious right? "Foreign talent" is diminishing by the day, and last I heard, many have left....in view of Covid..

Top 600? What like position 599 + 600... Can you shed a little light on thiose claims I would be interested to know who, what and when

Hi Gary, nice to meet you. I am a Malaysian and came to Vietnam in January 2021 exactly in the middle of the Pandemic. I find your situation somehow relatable so would like to share my experience to you in terms of the process of getting you here (not going to touch on your qualifications/salary expectations).

Was working remotely (digital/marketing sector) in my previous job before coming to Vietnam and got stuck at home during the whole of 2020 because Covid.. The cabin fever hit me hard so I decided to try a normal job somewhere far away also to treat it as a career shift. I was considering Singapore/Vietnam, applied aggressively in 2 weeks timeframe, got a few interviews and one stood out for me. It was a local law firm because they were experienced in handling work permits for expats.

I'm glad I sticked to my guts to go with them because man the whole process took around 45 days (this is during covid). Plus you know Malaysian government servants, it was tough to get all the necessary documents in place. You need to take into account that there are many documents/planning involved (if you want to work here legally) that is why many companies right now don't want to go through that process.

A few example that involves in the planning (sorry I don't remember exactly): criminal records from your country, health records, education cert, past job experience - to consider as an 'expert', notarization of documents, getting your business visa in Vietnam embassy, covid test, quarantine facility planning.

Because they were experienced in handling it, I had a smooth journey in the middle of the pandemic and I did split 50% expenses with the company.  If it was some unexperienced company, I might be in some sticky situation with incomplete documents etc.. I am pretty sure you don't want to gamble with that.

To cut a long story short, the process of getting a foreigner here during the pandemic is not easy + there are many other factors that affect the final decision of the company such as salary expectation, your qualification, personality etc.. Not trying to pour cold water but just want to share a realistic point of view so you can take the right actions. All the best

Caleb09 wrote:

Hi Gary, nice to meet you. I am a Malaysian and came to Vietnam in January 2021 exactly in the middle of the Pandemic. I find your situation somehow relatable so would like to share my experience to you in terms of the process of getting you here (not going to touch on your qualifications/salary expectations).

Was working remotely (digital/marketing sector) in my previous job before coming to Vietnam and got stuck at home during the whole of 2020 because Covid.. The cabin fever hit me hard so I decided to try a normal job somewhere far away also to treat it as a career shift. I was considering Singapore/Vietnam, applied aggressively in 2 weeks timeframe, got a few interviews and one stood out for me. It was a local law firm because they were experienced in handling work permits for expats.

I'm glad I sticked to my guts to go with them because man the whole process took around 45 days (this is during covid). Plus you know Malaysian government servants, it was tough to get all the necessary documents in place. You need to take into account that there are many documents/planning involved (if you want to work here legally) that is why many companies right now don't want to go through that process.

A few example that involves in the planning (sorry I don't remember exactly): criminal records from your country, health records, education cert, past job experience - to consider as an 'expert', notarization of documents, getting your business visa in Vietnam embassy, covid test, quarantine facility planning.

Because they were experienced in handling it, I had a smooth journey in the middle of the pandemic and I did split 50% expenses with the company.  If it was some unexperienced company, I might be in some sticky situation with incomplete documents etc.. I am pretty sure you don't want to gamble with that.

To cut a long story short, the process of getting a foreigner here during the pandemic is not easy + there are many other factors that affect the final decision of the company such as salary expectation, your qualification, personality etc.. Not trying to pour cold water but just want to share a realistic point of view so you can take the right actions. All the best

Curious, how did you get here in January 2021? I was under the impression the borders were closed. Also here most jobs/interviews are conducted in time frames spannjng 1-2 months. Visas too take several weeks to arrange, you must be highly talented in your chosen profession, what is it you do?

Jlgarbutt wrote:

gacl212004 wrote:

Thank Jlgarbutt for your feedback
It is seems that best way is to look for overseas job opportunity with Singapore-based companies who looking to relocate fellow countrymen to station in Vietnam

Depends what job you are seeking. DHL for example employ people all over the world and once you have served a couple of years are happy to help you work in one of their overseas facilities should a suitable position arise.

What career are you seeking?

Hi  Jlgarbutt, pardon me for late response.
I am in professional services sector . You can interpret it as consulting or consultancy. The domains we focus mainly in real esate, management consultancy, digital projects and project mgt.

Andybris2020 wrote:

Back to original poster Gary what field is he looking for a job in? hard to give advice on where to look if no idea what he has a degree in?

Hi  Andybris2020, pardon me for late response.
I am in professional services sector . You can interpret it as consulting or consultancy. The domains we focus mainly in real esate, management consultancy, digital projects and project mgt.
I am willing to try other sectors as long experience and competencies are transferable.

My educational background (chronological order) is as follows
* Advanced Diploma in Enterprise Business Analytics [GPA 3.9167]
* Master of Business Administration [Distinction] International Business (Major: Strategy)
* Bachelor of Science [1st Class Hons] Estate Management (Project: Marketing Research)
* Diploma in Building & Property Management

colinoscapee wrote:

Swee Loke wrote:

Come on people, be real. The Vietnamese these days are perfectly capable of handling all kinds of high I CT
work, lots of them having worked in MNC for years,  capable and know English fluently. There are high tech companies in District 9 and their Universities have been ranked as top 600 in Asia,  notably national Universities in Hanoi and HCM.  Universities like the private one Duy Tan have turned out vocational graduates by dozens.  VinUniversity is out to train senior leadership and management personnel. Fulbright University has been around for years. Now you wonder why they do not have a "retirement visa". The answer is quite obvious right? "Foreign talent" is diminishing by the day, and last I heard, many have left....in view of Covid..

Know English fluently?, Ive lived here for 14-years and the amount of very good English speakers I have I could count on one hand.

I have visited many parts of vn, especially HCMC, since 2008, for projects and leisure. I shared the same sentiment as you do.

Swee Loke wrote:

Hey, Gary from Singapore, my take is there may be Singapore firms wanting you, but they may need you to know Vietnamese to navigate the local intricacies. Not to mention, the locals have their WAY of doing things hor....and it's challenging to say the least...

Hi Swee Loke, on the LinkedIn platform, I did ever try with Ascott Hospitality, a Singapore-based company with overseas branches and operations. As mentioned in my 1st post, HR was not keen on paying for visa and work permit for start.  Even the ads for this opening is not posted in our local job portals. To some extent, I am disappointed with local companies and their overseas HR strategy.

In late Dec 2020, a local law firm's HR manager interviewed me and another 2 candidates outside VN but still ended up choosing a local candidate instead. The role interviewed is to work closely with the MD who is a New Zealander, hence it open to expat.

Jlgarbutt : I am not kidding. The Univs here by hook or crook managed to get listed. Search
qs University ranking + Asia 2021.  At least 2 listed..

Caleb09 wrote:

Hi Gary, nice to meet you. I am a Malaysian and came to Vietnam in January 2021 exactly in the middle of the Pandemic. I find your situation somehow relatable so would like to share my experience to you in terms of the process of getting you here (not going to touch on your qualifications/salary expectations).

Was working remotely (digital/marketing sector) in my previous job before coming to Vietnam and got stuck at home during the whole of 2020 because Covid.. The cabin fever hit me hard so I decided to try a normal job somewhere far away also to treat it as a career shift. I was considering Singapore/Vietnam, applied aggressively in 2 weeks timeframe, got a few interviews and one stood out for me. It was a local law firm because they were experienced in handling work permits for expats.

I'm glad I sticked to my guts to go with them because man the whole process took around 45 days (this is during covid). Plus you know Malaysian government servants, it was tough to get all the necessary documents in place. You need to take into account that there are many documents/planning involved (if you want to work here legally) that is why many companies right now don't want to go through that process.

A few example that involves in the planning (sorry I don't remember exactly): criminal records from your country, health records, education cert, past job experience - to consider as an 'expert', notarization of documents, getting your business visa in Vietnam embassy, covid test, quarantine facility planning.

Because they were experienced in handling it, I had a smooth journey in the middle of the pandemic and I did split 50% expenses with the company.  If it was some unexperienced company, I might be in some sticky situation with incomplete documents etc.. I am pretty sure you don't want to gamble with that.

To cut a long story short, the process of getting a foreigner here during the pandemic is not easy + there are many other factors that affect the final decision of the company such as salary expectation, your qualification, personality etc.. Not trying to pour cold water but just want to share a realistic point of view so you can take the right actions. All the best

Hi Caleb09, thank you for sharing your feedbacks. You mentioned: " I was considering Singapore/Vietnam, applied aggressively in 2 weeks timeframe, got a few interviews and one stood out for me".
Wow... there is super fast. Just 2 weeks of efforts and end up a job offer. I spent years applying for a role in VN, only ended up one interview chance.  Maybe you can enlighten me further....

Jlgarbutt: but of course, Vietnam will still be only a developing country for the foreseeable future. In fact, they should stay that way, as if they move up a bit - then the citizens lose the status to apply for overseas scholarships, like currently same as those half dead countries or states in Africa,  downright underdeveloped nations etc..so better to Stay down......