Newbie Expat

Welcome to Portugal. While we are not living in the Algarve area, we have lived in New Zealand for several years a while ago. We very much enjoyed that and the opportunity to see so much in the region (Pacific Islands and the whole east coast of Australia). If you like connect, please do so via private message.

Hi Vanessa, Welcome

Please read this:

How to build a social circle from scratch in Portugal
https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=909130

There are several expat meetup groups in the Algarve.

You can also contact here via private message with some of the forum members.

Kind Regards

Hi Vanessa. I'll be in your shoes a little over a month from now. But over on the opposite side of the Algarve near Tavira. Perhaps we might someday share insights about our respective areas?

For my part one of my early plans is to purchase an e-bike and hop on the train with it to explore other communities in the region for a day or several each.

I have to add that we both apparently have great reasons for choosing Portugal and the Algarve. Mine is quite a long list. But for many of those items New Zealand ranks equally as high. With the notable exception that it's much more difficult for an American to emigrate there. So I have to ask, why would you ever leave your own beautiful and progressive country? Bill

Might consider meeting Portuguese people, yes it's scary but as is your new country of residency why would want to be around same old folks or maybe should just go back from where you came from. Just saying there's allot of semi arrogant attitudes about immigrants/ expats. Let's be clear if you move to another country you're an immigrant and yes it's cool to have folks your familiarity with it's also cool to actually immigrate not for cost of living or good health care and whatever but to actually change yourself both physically and mentally.

jlujan63 wrote:

Might consider meeting Portuguese people, yes it's scary but as is your new country of residency why would want to be around same old folks or maybe should just go back from where you came from. Just saying there's allot of semi arrogant attitudes about immigrants/ expats. Let's be clear if you move to another country you're an immigrant and yes it's cool to have folks your familiarity with it's also cool to actually immigrate not for cost of living or good health care and whatever but to actually change yourself both physically and mentally.

It isn't scary to meet Portuguese people, even if one is an expat. But often expats have more in common with other expats and that's why they want to exchange experiences with other expats (not necessarily from their country of origin). That doesn't exclude making contacts with the Portuguese neighbours or colleagues.

I also actually find it very helpful to know why we have moved to Portugal other than "change myself physically or mentally".

OP Vanessa, said she felt like a fish out of water, she wants to meet other expats.  I truly mean no disrespect. And it is perfectly normal when one moves to want to meet people they feel they might have something in common.
And NZ you have had the privilege to have lived many different countries, done the research and knows how to use all the things he has learned and you chose Portugal.  I'm sure would agree it's never exactly what you expect, it's how you adapt.. but the culture of our times, its trendy, it's cool, it's all over social media, moving to a completely different country because you can. Whatever the reason, if you can afford to do it,  it is a privilege. 

Ask the Portuguese what they think. Ask them about their cost of living, there quality of life, and what they think of expats. Or ask the immigrants who posted on here, why they desperately want to leave there home country, for a better quality of life, but will never meet the D7 let alone Golden visa requirements. They want a better quality of life too.  Many are well educated and trained, this forum isn't for them and they are not the privileged.  Ask the farm workers from Africa and elsewhere who work seasonally in Portugal's agriculture, at below living wages, who live in group houses and have no legal rights. They probably want a better quality of life too. They want to relate to people who speak there language also..but they're not here on this forum. 

And fun fact: the average income for Portugal is under 1300 euro per month. That is regular people, most well educated, and trained like graphic designers, teachers, pharmacist, engineers, architects, nurses ect...these are your neighbors. 
Nz I agree with your comments and would add to all those considering moving to any other countries, it won't be what you expect.  Ask yourself, are you Interested in being part of an expat community or a community?

The Portuguese people, like all people, welcome all who respect and show interest in their community.  The negative economic effects of the privileged immigrant/ expat on the locals will only get worse. Those with the means to afford to move are unique and it is a great privilege.  Expats are privileged immigrants and we should all understand this fact. We should make every effort to get to know the communities we are effecting. Just because you can be around similar worldly people who can afford to travel or relocate to a nice place, doesn't mean you have to only know them.  Think about how you spend your time money and energy in you new home country. 

Otherwise you will be another unwelcome expat. Nothing wrong with looking for other expats, but complaining about the bureaucracy or perhaps patronizing attitudes that we help the local economy with our money is not true. We effect the economy, yes we contribute to the economy but there is a cost to this that negatively effect the local, ask them.

Perhaps you could be helpful and suggest somewhere Vanessa could meet some people rather than go on about how privileged expats are.
She is asking for help to meet people not to be lectured.
It doesn't matter where you are from or where you are going. Moving to a new country alone isn't easy and it can be daunting to meet new people. Especially when reading unwelcoming comments like yours.

Vanessa, I will soon be moving to Albufeira and would be happy to meet fellow expats.  I have signed up for some Portuguese classes in Vilamoura, perhaps you would like to come along?

Hi Zsheffield,

In forums and social networks, not everything that seems to be it really is...

It is interesting to see how there are expats in Portugal who create fake profiles like this (the Mexican interested in Portugal, but after all he is German and lives in Portugal), to pass messages like this. This is not the first time, and should not be the last...

This well-informed forum member repeats here information that I have already made available here countless times and that is easily accessible here to anyone who wants to read it.

What is the point of this, completely out of context? To prevent people interested in Portugal to live in Portugal? Don't these people have the same rights that he has?

Yes, the cost of living has risen, but it has nothing to do with the expats (except in the rentals of houses in Lisbon). It has to do with the euro currency, but surely this forum member doesn't know that, because at that time, 20 years ago, he didn't even live here.

In Germany, for example, the millions of expats (immigrants) from Syria, Turkey, ...... earn the same as the Germans do? Do they do the same jobs as the Germans?

I have heard recently that Afghanistan's telecommunications ex-minister, an engineer by profession, was distributing food on Uber Eats in Hamburg. Does he earn the same as the Germans ? Does he feel happy there? Is he recognised in his qualifications and skills?

Do you "jlujan63", also care about these cases in your home country ? Do you think that these people have the wages that once you had? Do you think these immigrants will enjoy one day, the golden pensions that you enjoy today?

@Tom, everything you have said here may even have some truth in it, but did you have these concerns while you were living in Germany?

Oh thank you so much for your kind response .. I think it's double daunting because I am a solo .. being in a couple is supportive .. I'm pretty independent though ..

I have just this week joined a coffee group & a walking group .. which I'm looking forward too ..

Definitely need someone to talk too !!! 😃

But extremely happy to be here ..

Yes.. Portuguese classes in Villamoura I can do ..

Great idea !!

Johnny PT, I take no offense or your words personally but to be clear, your completely wrong about me.  I am a very open and honest person. If you don't mind the long reply I am happy to share a little more about myself.  And I am not someone faking a profile to cause any drama for anyone about anything. 

(1) I have never created a fake profile. 
(2) I am not German. I have never been to Germany. I was born and raised in Los Angeles, California. I am a legal resident of Mexico and live with my spouse in Mexico City for 3 years. You can verify my IP address thru your moderators.

(3)Yes I am retired, early for medical reasons. I live on a very generous medical pension of a little over $3k/m because I worked hard for a very good company, and when I could no longer work I had very good benefits which are quite unusual for the USA.   

(4) My profile on here is the only profile I have ever created on here and my post and timeline is available for anyone to read. 

(5) Keep reading if want to know more about me and my experiences...I'm 57, college educated, and have HIV for over 30 years. My pension is related to this fact and I am very fortunate to be alive. I am married, my husband is Venezuelan, 35, working in engineering analytics for a multinational agriculture science corporation.
  He moved to Mexico for the opportunity of a better life he could not have in Venezuela. (We send money to his family in Caracas every month).
 
(6) Why I became an immigrant.  I moved to Mexico for the low cost of living and medical cost, and an oportunity to improve my Spanish, I've spoke some spanglish all my life, horribly.     

In 2017 I moved to Puerto Vallarta in Mexico because I have gringo friends and family living there, and it was easy to become a full time resident. After about 6 months I decided Puerto Vallarta was not for me. I found it too small and limited culturally and more a holiday vibe. And to be totally honestly, for me, too many drunk people and the gay community of which I am a gay man, can be really obnoxious. I feel a super strong sence of gratitude for the freedom that we have as glbtq, with these freedoms come responsibility. As a middle age gay man with HIV I'm very disappointed in my generation not being better examples of humanity toward our younger generation. The fact that the suicide rates and self abuse of drugs and sex addiction is epidemic in the gay male young and the fact the most of my generation are in open relationships as If this is the norm and that's awesome is just not something I'm proud of or wish to be a part. I think most gay men need to have allot more self respect and self love and less sex drugs and anything goes.   Relationship are not easy for anyone and they don't all work but they can work better when we learn to have self respect. Also in Puerto Vallarta it's to easy for English speaking people to not be interested or needing to be able to learn to speak Spanish.  For me it wasn't a place I saw a future. 
 
However I have a sister who lives there quite comfortable and happy on her $1500/mo social security, speaking no Spanish. She fully enjoys her life with her English speaking friends.  She loves the beach,  is active in the community. She's an animal lover and volunteers for animal rescue and spade/ neuter, as is a big issue there, and she enjoys making jewelry and crafts.

(7)Why I am on this forum.  I joined this forum seeking recent information and sharing information about the process and to learn about others experience of moving to Portugal.

(7) To be clear, We do not live in Portugal. 
Honestly not sure if we ever will.  We are seeking current accurate information to make an informed decision.
  My husband and I have been a few times to Portugal: Porto, Lisbon and Faro.  He speaks fluent Portuguese, Brazilian. 

(8) Why I think expats/immigrants should try to learn at least some of the language.  We have made many Mexican and even Portuguese and other non English speaking friends, from mostly latin America and Spain, who live here in Mexico city, mostly for work. The  lingua franca of the business world is English and most educated professionals speak some English. However it's a bit sad how many English speaking professionals (outside Europe) speak no other languages.
Like Portugal, in general wages are low even for most college grads, but the cost of living is also pretty low.  I have learned the government has several programs for employees that offset the lower wages.  They provide really good benefits.  There is a home mortgage program for all. All employees receive a food debit card of one to 3 thousand peso per month.  All receive a yearly Christmas bonis of an extra months pay similar to Portugal.  They have a good maternity leave for both sexes. Decent health care is free for all. And one can find a private walk in without appointment doctors in almost every neighborhood for cheap. It's a good,  quality of life.  It's culturally rich.  The food is incredible, the arts museums, music, history architecture.. we've had no security issues and never felt unsafe, there are posh and poor living side by side and there is a strong sence of live and let live, and a very entrepreneur energy. Lots of small businesses and creative ideas. A strong sence of community and they work long hours.  The Mexicans are always polite and helpful never afraid to ask a stranger for directions or offer advice on a sale in the grocery store. There are areas of the city I don't go but it's a huge city and there are areas in every larger city  one knows to avoid.  But  obviously it depends on where you live. In general I meet nice folks literally every day.   Some find the traffic to be the biggest problem.
It has a huge cheap metro and yes there was a horrible tragic collapse on a metro that causes many deaths. Its not without it's problems. Yet thru the pandemic and in general the city is well run with a great mayor
   They are expanding access to the metro via a new cable car system to the farthest and poorest areas, and to improve and progress the lives of everyone seems to be the general continuous goal.   
Mexico city and Mexico is an amazing place, far from perfect, but there is a sence of we and us, not me, in just about everything.  They also in spite of the problems every big city, just seem happy. I can't remember hearing a loud argument or exchange of heated words here.   We also felt the same vibe in parts of Portugal.

(9) So if we are so happy why move to Portugal. We both truly love Europe and Portugal. But it's not perfect either.  It is however the easiest option for both of us to get into the EU, thru the D7. For me as a person on pension the chance to experience living in Europe and for my husband who would like to see what professional opportunity he may find by living in the EU.  We also have friends in Portugal, and all over Europe. 
  Portugal is a great, not perfect, European country with good healthcare, low crime rates, good cost of living, awesome people, culture and a very interesting history.  But we don't want to live in an English speaking mostly environment or a  be a part of the regentrification experience.  It seems too much for the locals. We prefer the city but the cities in Portugal are experiencing more regentrification from expats and what is great about Portugal is also what is making it less attractive for us and less affordable for locals.

(10) yes I've read the guidelines for posting on here and do not see that I have in any way violated any of the rules.

(11) why I think johnny PT confused me with some angry German gadfly.   I believe you wrote something about this "German living in Portugal" in the recent past. I think he posted some strong negative political opinions about Portugal and socialism? I think not sure, but it wasn't me.  And I think you mentioned he had done it before under a different profile only to recreate another.  So you've had some bad experience with someone. But sorry definitely not me.  I'm sorry this happens. I have had some weird experiences from some really sad folks online but in this case, again it wasn't me.

(12) why am I posting this now. The sites moderators blocked me after the post which johnny PT replied accusing me of being a faked profile. After review I very much appreciate my account unblocked. 

(13) was my post an unwelcoming or insensitive to the op? I hope not, and I have received 2 neg replies  and 5 positive likes so who knows in balance I'd say Ok fair enough. From my perspective, Op said she spent 3 years to prepare for her move. I'd say that's awesome and a considerable amount of time to read and research what she might expect, and for her to not be a fish out of water, she reached out to expats as a newbie. It seems she had received quite a bit of welcome advice. 

(14) Should one read my post as discouraging to potential future expats. Reading things that may be true but makes one feel are out of context or uncomfortable doesn't  mean they should be discouraged to try to migrate to another country, but rather encourage one to seek facts, make a well informed decision. I have research allot, spoken to the Portuguese who live in Portugal, who have expressed there feelings about expats, the economic impact good and bad. With no rancor. Just an honest discussion. I've read  Portuguese news for the Portuguese regularly, I've watch local Portuguese news and information online. It's all there at a click if you want to learn. 
 
Thank you johnny PT for pointing out what I wrote you considered "mostly true" and that I am "well informed."  I get my information from reading and researching. 
 
I do have great empathy for your patience to repeat the same answer to questions, the same questions that have been asked and answered. I admire that you reply kindly and professionally. Rarely are your responses short and to some, insensitive, but I respect it must get annoying to keep repeating.

The information you shared about the well educated refugee in Germany was most interesting. Maybe a bit off topic? but didn't offend me a bit.  I have a few friends here in Mexico who are musicians and actors who also have been delivering food and or driving for Uber since the pandemic. No shame, Respect.  I've met Uber drivers in California who were immigrants with PhDs.  Same thing. Respect.

I stand by my words and context under the rules of conduct on this site and specific to the newbie expat feed, It was nothing personal.

Any expat/immigrant can find other expats, op was given several specific answers to her needs.  I felt an opportunity to remind all the fuller context of moving to a new country.  Rosey pictures will raise expectations and lead to more disappointed and dumbfounded newbies.

And as I have lived in expat communities, it can be a bubble in a bubble.  Not that this is bad for those who want this.

My experience has been fully enriched by asking questions, seeking information,  and learning from allot of mistakes, trying again and again and, most importantly, openly listening with humility. Finding what works best for each is an individual choice of which again we have the privilege to decide. 
 
Befriending and learning from locals and other immigrants, who do not speak English first, can help one appreciate how privileged it is to be able to live at a time when we have an oportunity to live in different countries, and learn from each other. If you don't want to learn anything new, hang out with like minded.

Thanks for reading and I highly recommend the feed on here about unfair taxes and gas containers, wow that's an interesting and imo good feed... looking forward to reading about others experiences and opinions with all due respect.

Hi jlujan63,

Thanks for sharing this, despite that almost all these posts (including mine) are out of context    However, I want to mention the gentrification issue.

This process happens mainly in Lisbon. And I don't see so many negative aspects in it, as many Portuguese people think... quite the opposite. It has made the city more cosmopolitan, more attractive, with a rich, wide and inclusive cultural offer. It is allowing a buildings regeneration and starting to fill spaces still forgotten (!) in the city. It is allowing an upgrade of the public space on the outskirts of the city, the creation of new underground and light rail metro lines, new cycle paths, interesting urban parks, bringing the city closer to the river, etc. You know that just as in our human lives, cities also need outside input to bring forward change for the better, and to break out of some of the inertia of the past. What better examples of gentrification than London, Paris or Barcelona? Who is the national citizen of those countries with an average standard of living who can afford to live in the centre of London or Paris? Have you ever walked around central London? Do you know who lives there?

Sorry about the profile, but everything you said about social issues applies to most of the countries in Europe. Social differences exist all over the world, of which Latin America is the best representative. Brazil and Mexico are two good examples of that. And none of this has anything to do with expats.

So I don't see the need to make this specific in a forum about Portugal. And please, don't develop this discussion in threads created by other people and about other topics that have nothing to do with this.

All the best

Expats philosophy to afternoon time, by a good coffee and wonderful wether with the Tejo in the front WaW!
Maybe after so long briefing with so much personal information, the soul from JluJan63 will be quiet and in peace.
I'm happy to get work and life experience around the world for more than 30Y. Guys, these kinds of discussions are very common.
We are expats, our life is very different from the "locals" and we are here in Portugal, as over all in the world, guests! Never forget that.
Cheers,
Chris

Enjoy your coffee and cheers to you fellow human and privileged German living in Portugal

All of us, expats, are privileged to live in this country!

Hi Bill,

good question, why leave New Zealand?... How long have you got?

everyone has there requirements, mine is lack of History, Architecture, Music, Culture oh and not at the ass end of the world, which yes it isn't a bad thing, but blimey travelling is long haul even traveling to Australia?

It's terribly expensive, small, isolated, soul less, yes it is beautiful, but so are many places in the world.

Heck i'm ready for a change in short.

That said all  the best in your move.

vanessa