Disturbing news on Sinopharm vaccine

yeah I heard it was created using clear soy sauce 😂😂😂

I NEVER trust news unless it's backed up by check-able facts.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202105/1223207.shtml

Though it is unknown how many of the inoculated patients were injected with the Sinopharm shot, questioning voices from some foreign media have been mainly targeting the Chinese vaccine.

President Ramkalawan refuted such doubts on Monday, saying that among people needing hospitalization in the age group of 18 to 60, 80 percent were not vaccinated, which shows the efficacy of the vaccines.

I looked at a number of sites, and all point out their point of view rather than facts we can verify, mostly on political lines.
Some are very pro-China, others very anti-China, but all are short of evidence anyone can check.

From the article you cite with bold mine:

A Beijing-based immunologist who requested to remain anonymous told the Global Times on Tuesday that the evaluation of the effectiveness of the Sinopharm vaccine is arbitrary and the causes for the outbreaks in Seychelles should be analyzed with more detailed information about the patients and taking into consideration factors such as mutant strains and the level of protective antibodies in the local population.

If you read the NY Times article carefully, I think you will see that it puts emphasis on the mutation aspect.  I don't see the conclusions drawn as being that different.

This guidance from the CDC just came out today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHVWC7nkvn0

Hopefully this will encouraged more people to get vaccinated so we can all get back to normal life here in the US.

THIGV wrote:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/business/economy/covid-seychelles-sinopharm.html?searchResultPosition=1

This is disturbing news which may indicate that the Chinese vaccine may not be efficacious against the South African variant.

Not really.
Once you're past their enforced signup using a crappy old Yahoo address they can spam all they like because I rarely open it, you read the piece.

Hang on - just going to make a coffee.
Right, I'm back.

Seychelles has seen a surge in coronavirus cases even though much of its population was inoculated with China's Sinopharm vaccine.

or

Seychelles has seen a surge in coronavirus cases even though much of its population was inoculated with the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Linn Dorin is a/the Board Director listed on the site that's suppose to have originated the story (not that I've found it on their site thus far)
Here's her Linkedin
https://www.linkedin.com/in/linn-dorin-32a75b7/

She appears to have neglected to mention her senior position with Bridge Beijing.

David Gold, the other westerner listed also forgets to mention his position anywhere except on their site. Odd two people who work for the same company (Global Health Strategies) in the US have the same memory issues.

Rae Huang - Can't find her any where outside the Bridge site
Angel Teh - Same
Claire Wang - Same

I'm sure the company is real but only the New York times seems to bother with them. I wonder why such an amazing force is ignored by everyone else.

Among the vaccinated population that has had two doses, 57 percent was given Sinopharm, while 43 percent was given AstraZeneca. Thirty-seven percent of new active cases are people who are fully vaccinated

Age group/vaccine type?

“On the surface of it, that's an alarming finding,” said Dr. Kim Mulholland, a pediatrician at the Murdoch Children's Research Institute in Melbourne, Australia, who has been involved in the oversight of many vaccine trials, including those for a Covid-19 vaccine.Dr. Mulholland said the initial reports from Seychelles correlate to a 50 percent efficacy rate for the vaccine, instead of the 78.1 percent rate that the company has touted.

Nice maths, but we don't know which vaccine is a possible problem because they use two different ones. The story mentions one case, but neglects to give any data on the rest.

He pointed out that the Sinopharm vaccine was given to people ages 18 to 60, and in this age group over all, 80 percent of the patients who needed to be hospitalized were not vaccinated.

So most of the new cases were un-vaccinated people, thus nothing to do with much, and 20% of that age group, not 20% of the total, were given the Chinese vaccine.

I love numbers

On Wednesday, the number of daily new confirmed Covid-19 cases per million people in Seychelles stood at 2,613.38, compared with 5.55 in Israel, according to the World in Data project.

2 thousand cases per million, but the place has a population of only 100,000, so we're talking 200 cases, of which 160 hadn't had a vaccination - That leaves 40 possible vaccination failures - but we aren't sure which vaccine as it doesn't explain with any clarity.

Dr. Mulholland said the initial reports from Seychelles correlate to a 50 percent efficacy rate for the vaccine, instead of the 78.1 percent rate that the company has touted.

That's a  hell of a claim based on 40 cases

So, in conclusion

We have no idea who  Bridge Beijing is, and their main staff either don;t mention their work or can't be found on the internet outside the US - or at all. The ones I did find work in the US for a US company.

The site is supposed to be about China but hardly mentions China

The quote from Dr. Kim Mulholland is hard to find outside the linked NYT piece (except in cloned stories)

The numbers are dodgy, and the report was written in Singapore - How did a reporter thousands of miles away find local people to talk to and quote?

This is a Swiss cheese - It also has lots of holes

As far as a basic mans understanding, all these vaccines state that sometimes you can get infected after vaccination but if you get infected you wont get seriously ill from it or die!

I found a link to the NYT story

https://bridgebeijing.com/our-impact/

It's a good job most of their staff are ghosts or work in the US or the Chinese government might want to talk to them.

Fred wrote:

I found a link to the NYT story

https://bridgebeijing.com/our-impact/

It's a good job most of their staff are ghosts or work in the US or the Chinese government might want to talk to them.

So a group you don't like has a link to the Times story and the Times refers to and describes them in that story.   Perhaps there is a problem not with the Sinopharm vaccine but with it's distribution channels.   

There is a reason the NY Times is called the "Grey Lady."  It is because they avoid sensationalism in favor of factual reporting.  The Times story was written by one of their regular staff.  Per her byline "Sui-Lee Wee is a China correspondent for The New York Times. She has covered China since 2010, focusing on health care, gender and demographics." 

For me I personally have no dog in the fight.  I would gladly take the Chinese product myself if I thought it was the best.  Let me just pose one question to you Fred.  If you could take either the Sinopharm or the Pfizer vaccine tomorrow, which would you chose?

THIGV wrote:

Fred wrote:

I found a link to the NYT story

https://bridgebeijing.com/our-impact/

It's a good job most of their staff are ghosts or work in the US or the Chinese government might want to talk to them.

So a group you don't like has a link to the Times story and the Times refers to and describes them in that story.   Perhaps there is a problem not with the Sinopharm vaccine but with it's distribution channels.   

There is a reason the NY Times is called the "Grey Lady."  It is because they avoid sensationalism in favor of factual reporting.  The Times story was written by one of their regular staff.  Per her byline "Sui-Lee Wee is a China correspondent for The New York Times. She has covered China since 2010, focusing on health care, gender and demographics." 

For me I personally have no dog in the fight.  I would gladly take the Chinese product myself if I thought it was the best.  Let me just pose one question to you Fred.  If you could take either the Sinopharm or the Pfizer vaccine tomorrow, which would you chose?

I have no idea who the company are and don't read the NYT (Had to register in order to read the story). I do know the only links to this story are a circle jerk between the two, the facts are not backed up by anything, numbers have been twisted to sound far worse than they are, and no bugger else has bothered with the story or quotes. I also know the source company is staffed by people who don't seem to work there or even exist outside the company's site.
No dog in the fight either, but I do like take stories with a pinch of salt until I know who owns other dogs.

Seeing a story as dodgy doesn't mean I have a bent towards another team, just that I see the story as dodgy.

As for the vaccines, I don't know enough about either to decide at this point.

I don't want to burst anyones bubble but the so called Grey Lady has long since departed from the realms of factual truthful pure journalism and now writes purely from an agenda based viewpoint. I didn't read this particular story but I was once a regular with the NYT. Now I won't even use it to wrap my discards from fish cleanings. Sad but true. I have no dog in the fight regarding this issue - but do when it comes to truthful journalism.

Kjmwest wrote:

I don't want to burst anyones bubble but the so called Grey Lady has long since departed from the realms of factual truthful pure journalism and now writes purely from an agenda based viewpoint. I didn't read this particular story but I was once a regular with the NYT. Now I won't even use it to wrap my discards from fish cleanings. Sad but true. I have no dog in the fight regarding this issue - but do when it comes to truthful journalism.

BBC News same, used to be the place to get an un biased view on world issues, now I can barely look at it. But with 24hrs news on air these days its difficult to get anything factual, its all about trawling for the next sensational headline even although it might just be made up fake news!!

goodolboy wrote:

Kjmwest wrote:

I don't want to burst anyones bubble but the so called Grey Lady has long since departed from the realms of factual truthful pure journalism and now writes purely from an agenda based viewpoint. I didn't read this particular story but I was once a regular with the NYT. Now I won't even use it to wrap my discards from fish cleanings. Sad but true. I have no dog in the fight regarding this issue - but do when it comes to truthful journalism.

BBC News same, used to be the place to get an un biased view on world issues, now I can barely look at it. But with 24hrs news on air these days its difficult to get anything factual, its all about trawling for the next sensational headline even although it might just be made up fake news!!

Agree! The BBC now comes across as being a left-wing, feminist mouthpiece. I try to watch it, but I just can't last any longer than a few minutes. Great to see the BBC now has automated cameramen, well  done BBC! great to see them helping to create more unemployment.

It still pales in comparison to those horrible American news services like CNN.

CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC snd on and on. They're all trash talking left wing fake news outlets trying to manipulate what and how viewers think. Fox news which used to be somewhat reliable has now caved and gone in the tank since Rupert Murdoch turned it over to his left wing biased sons. They've been forcing out talent and orchestrating what most of those left report on. I've found that the Epoch Times, an app based news paper gives you the straight scoop. They ‘re run by dissidents from China and their reporting is fair and honest. The left keeps trying to shut them down but they've managed to survive thus far. Sadly world journalism has gone down to a point of essentially state media. No more Walter Cronkite out there any more. Think for yourselves and don't believe most of what you read.

colinoscapee wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

Kjmwest wrote:

I don't want to burst anyones bubble but the so called Grey Lady has long since departed from the realms of factual truthful pure journalism and now writes purely from an agenda based viewpoint. I didn't read this particular story but I was once a regular with the NYT. Now I won't even use it to wrap my discards from fish cleanings. Sad but true. I have no dog in the fight regarding this issue - but do when it comes to truthful journalism.

BBC News same, used to be the place to get an un biased view on world issues, now I can barely look at it. But with 24hrs news on air these days its difficult to get anything factual, its all about trawling for the next sensational headline even although it might just be made up fake news!!

Agree! The BBC now comes across as being a left-wing, feminist mouthpiece. I try to watch it, but I just can't last any longer than a few minutes. Great to see the BBC now has automated cameramen, well  done BBC! great to see them helping to create more unemployment.

It still pales in comparison to those horrible American news services like CNN.

Well on the plus side at least with YouTube you can at least spread your live news viewing about away from main stream, I like news programs & jump from France 24, DW, ABC (oz) Aljazeera, RT etc & one I found recently is London based "Talk Radio" (TV) at least its down to earth!!