Business registration Filipino style :)

Yes tomorrow is another day (fingers crossed) and as you well know "welcome to the Philippines".
We can't pay our electricity bill online and nearly 4 years to finally settle all the paperwork with leases and encumbrances on the titles, municipal rates etc. with our property purchase in April 2017.
We have enough trouble trying to build extensions and renovations let alone starting a business here, we did look 7 or 8 years ago but too hard for little return and honestly I did come here to retire without extra head aches.

Good luck tomorrow.

Cheers, Steve.

bigpearl wrote:

Yes tomorrow is another day (fingers crossed) and as you well know "welcome to the Philippines".
We can't pay our electricity bill online and nearly 4 years to finally settle all the paperwork with leases and encumbrances on the titles, municipal rates etc. with our property purchase in April 2017.
We have enough trouble trying to build extensions and renovations let alone starting a business here, we did look 7 or 8 years ago but too hard for little return and honestly I did come here to retire without extra head aches.

It took me several years research, eliminating business alteratives from my  list with184     business ideas I could be interested in doing rural, now down to around 10 left of which some need additional research localy before knowing if they can interesting. The business I hsve chosed to start I had at the list but in an other form, when I stuble on it when I happened to see how wrong handled such businesses are mostly in Phils.  (Back when I decided to start this I had only seen 2 of around 50 good handled. Found a third a few days ago, which we discus cooperating with.)
My origin idea, when building such business type from scratch, I expected "safe" but only ok earning just around 10-15 % earning per year at the investment.
But when I found such wrong handled businesses for saöle cheap by they produce bad by wrong handled,  I found a "shortcut" both concerning how much it cost to start and time until reach biger production, so much better earning than my origin idea. (The business we are buying first I expect AT LEAST 3 times the investment back in 5 years, but possible to be 7-.8 times.)   IF bribes don't cost to much      One with similar business at an other island told me it cost him in averege 40 000p  in bribes per lorry load to get his products to better market in city.
It's funny. An OTHER business owner know we are buying such business. Every time he see my business partner passing he ask if the deal is done yet, so  I guess he want to sell too      This would suit very good, if he ask similar price, by they are close and are very similar so both can be solved the same way.  It's "queue" just by tsismis  (=gossip) with owners of such wrong handled businesses calling and want to seli.

bigpearl wrote:

Good luck tomorrow.

Thank you.   Can be needed       I believe THIS step will be solved this week, but then there will be more steps to solve...     We have tried to solve steps since november and are still only in the beginning.  One BIG hurdle left, I guess that will take a year to get, but no big problem with that waiting IF we get permit to start solving the mess because I expect that will take around a year of practical work anyway.

Golly gosh I should not have said anything. Only my observation but for 40 odd years running multiple businesses I never knew what an expat site was let alone have the time to look for one nor let every one know the ins and outs, only my accountant.
I have mostly wound up my business ventures in Australia (aside from ASIC and my family trust) and would never ever consider a business here. Seen it all with the relatives, the good and bad mostly. The sob stories, the opportunists, the many government officials wanting a cut from an ailing business, very happy to keep my investments in Australia and sit here on the beach drinking my JD contemplating the workers to get their marching orders.

My guess is that some are suckers for punishment and for me at 61? I'm chilling with the frustrations of day to day life here in PH. and great investments in Oz. that give me my slack life here with little or no thought of where I came from nor any worries until I die.
While we are all different and some need to continue to accomplish, some like myself and others simply put their feet up and work out the next holiday (if things get back to a semblance of normal) or new car helping the family etc.

Cheers, Steve.

I hired a lawyer to file my SEC and all local documents.  Cost me 30k to get everything done and all i had to do was sign papers that my attorney brought me.   It took a total of 3 weeks to get everything done. The real pain was all the permits and fee that magically appeared from building permits to health permits,  and all the regualtions.   But i contacted my attorney and he took care of all those as well.

Bukidnonkane wrote:

I hired a lawyer to file my SEC and all local documents.  Cost me 30k to get everything done and all i had to do was sign papers that my attorney brought me.   It took a total of 3 weeks to get everything done. The real pain was all the permits and fee that magically appeared from building permits to health permits,  and all the regualtions.   But i contacted my attorney and he took care of all those as well.

Are you sure he made it correct?   
During my research I have noticed a big part of öawyers in Phils are incometent oir even crocks. To foreigners it's rather common lawyers offer "solutions" with DUMMIES to try to get around the "ANTI-DUMMY law" !!!  Of course no chance to manage a proper check...
Other examples:
/A lawer was involved in handling document in a beach land transfer. It ended up he grabbed one of the two lots FOR FREE for himself somehow, the buyer paid full and got only one of the lots.
/I have studied Phil laws much so some I know, but sometimes I check something with Filipino lawyers - geting OPPOSITE answers      The latest was a real estate deal between Filipinos, and the some unclea was about if a left but not legaly separated wife had to sign or not when the husband had got a land to sell for his aunt.  (After giving up to get a sure answer, I goit an idea how to solve it, which is an other complocated story.)
/An other lawyer got the work to make the Filipina  own the small land and the foreigner own the villa. When they did split, to the Filipina's suprise all where put in her name, which made problem for HER because all bills came to her, which she couldn't pay, and she tried to be fair and sell and give WHOLE to the foreiigner when he moved to his hoime country (years before covid) but the foreigner wanted full price so she couldn't get it sold...

bigpearl wrote:

I have mostly wound up my business ventures in Australia (aside from ASIC and my family trust) and would never ever consider a business here.

That's the clever easy way   

I don't need to start any new business but I do anyway. Original thought was starting
/one for Filipino family to have work in and live of after I'm dead,
/and an other more as aid adding some jobs to the locals ok to just break even
but during research I found some businesses, which can solve both combinmed in same business, so that's what I try to start now.

Registration chapter 2 and 3:

2.  Yesterday it rained to much there so the rural road got to bad to get to town.

3.  When my Filipino business partner got there today all offices were closed becaise of a holiday not even he knew of   

Left to see what problems to make the suppoused to be simplest business registration will bring next week... 

From registration info:

Thanks to the Philippine Department of Trade and Industry, you no longer need to go through a difficult, time-consuming process to register a new business. The Philippine Business Registry (PBR) kiosks get you through the entire registration process in about 30 minutes.

My business partner has spend two weeks, if include baranggay permit, and it isn't done yet... 

Sorry to hear, Coach. What a hassle. It's more fun in the Philippines..

pnwcyclist wrote:

Sorry to hear, Coach. What a hassle.

No big problem yet by other things have been slow too, but soon we will need the registration to aviod other delays. My Filipino business partner is used to such, so inspite of it was he, who got his time wasted, he laught at it too 

pnwcyclist wrote:

It's more fun in the Philippines..

II said that to him too 

Chapter 4.
Went to get tthe name of the business registered.  Not approved!!! although it was my business partner's very uncommon family name followed by what we will produce, so no chance  it can be occupied...

- Have you registered at BIR?

Of course we haven't, because we don't know yet which businesss name to register at BIR... 

coach53 wrote:

Chapter 4.
Went to get tthe name of the business registered.  Not approved!!! although it was my business partner's very uncommon family name followed by what we will produce, so no chance  it can be occupied...

- Have you registered at BIR?

Of course we haven't, because we don't know yet which businesss name to register at BIR... 

Understand your frustration...just keep at it...its always extra 'FUN' in the philippines...looking forward to chapter 5.

manwonder wrote:

Understand your frustration...just keep at it...its always extra 'FUN' in the philippines...looking forward to chapter 5.

Chapter 4 B   first.
I did read the long intructions for business registrtion more detailed.  It say:
Need to be registered att SSS to get mayor's permit.
Need tto have mayor's permit to register at SSS...   

Beside that DTI too say as mayor's office we need a special permit for such business, although we can't get such permit before we own the property with the business,
and the business can't buy the property before it excist by geting  registration...   

Chapter 5
started with my business partner got a flat tire at his motorbike in the middle of nowhere and had to push it all the way to town. It took him 3 hours.

1. Intead of the name we wanted )= his family name + what we produce) which they DIDN'T approve, suggesting looooong names saying Trade, material supplier or service to such business we start but NONE saying the PRODUCTION!!   IF we would chose wrong at this, I guess we wil NOT get a needed special permit, because the others don't need such...
2. Although it's rather common production, ttheir database DON'T have the business desciption it is!!!
3. IF chose WRONG name and WRONG business desciption just to pass these problems, then coming to choises and subchioises which are CORRECT,  BUT at the last OBLIGATIRIC subchoise, there are no available choise so the send buttom stay not useable!!!

So I wrote to DTI how to get this solved  Left to see if they will answer, and if they answer something useful, because so far we have got crap useless answers...

Coach53...your perseverance may have paid off...just keep at it. 😆
(NEWS JUST IN..)

Proposed amendments to the Foreign Investments Act are intended to further ease rules on foreign businesses deemed to be among the most restrictive in Southeast Asia.
https://www.rappler.com/nation/duterte- … strictions

manwonder wrote:

Coach53...your perseverance may have paid off...just keep at it. 😆
(NEWS JUST IN..)

Proposed amendments to the Foreign Investments Act are intended to further ease rules on foreign businesses deemed to be among the most restrictive in Southeast Asia.
https://www.rappler.com/nation/duterte- … strictions

Very interesting      
Hope they will make it possible to register businesses correct too      
and it would be niice if they let in from Sweden my - vaccinated - friend  to check my investment and to show them a part hard to do at distance.
And it would be nice if they skip the restrictions against using foreign knowledge at domnating level. This first business is solved by I finaly found one who knew most allready, but it took me several year to find him. But in a second business idea, which I think of starting too, my knowledge would be dominating, which wouldn't be allowed with the existing laws  if  I don't find an other knowing enough about that AND I want to cooperate with AND suit geographicaly to the first - so allmost impossible...

Chapter 6.
No answer from DTI head office
and the property with business seller start to become a bit unpatient,
so I told my business partner to try to get an application form at PAPER. He got one and I noticed it HAS the category this business is and what we want. And in the iinstructions it even say naming as WE want,not the far to llong business names - and wrong Trade/Service  instead of Manufactory/Producer - as DTI handdler has offered us...
We checked what to write at the form and my business partner will fill and give it to DTI at Monday.  Left to see what will happen  when they will try to put it into the database, which has failed so far...   

Chapter 7:
Went to DTI with a correct filled application form. Their answer:
-Make application yourself online.
But that's IMPOSSIBLE because of the reasons I wrote earlier. Perhaps the handler have understood that now but don't want to admit iit     But we got a phone number to call DTI head office OURSELF instead of the local registration office do it. Left to see what - I expect stupid imposuble - answer we will get there... 
They HAVEN'T answeredd still tthe email I did sendd DTI head office a week ago about it...

A GOOD thing though is - after much trouble becaise oof the crap USA has forced banks in the world to follow - my Swedish bank has finaly approved sendiing my money to the Philiippines.  First step with SWIFT code functioned good - but then it DIDN'T function filling the acount in the Phil bank although filled exact as the instructions we had got from the Phil bank...   

I feel your pain coach and the many frustrations. Been there, done that many times and I'm sure it ain't over for all of us.
Hope it works out and you succeed soon. BTW, chin up.

Cheers, Steve.

bigpearl wrote:

I feel your pain coach and the many frustrations. Been there, done that many times and I'm sure it ain't over for all of us.
Hope it works out and you succeed soon. BTW, chin up.

Cheers, Steve.

Earlier there were parts, which are so stupid so it become funny 
but now we start losing patience with these incompetent idiots...

We started in november, first with trying to solve howto get needed permits. Now we know how . IF the idiots ever manage to get this simple business registered correct so we can buy the property and appply for the permits...
Their info say WHOLE get done within 30 MINUTES      but we are stucked at the second of  the steps...

As you well know coach, welcome to the Philippines and the merry go round is not to be trifled with unless your pockets are deep.

Cheers, Steve.

They must be overloaded with work & in taking great care in the prevention of suspected fraud at all costs...its real tough with their current IBM PC 5150 system &  I rekon  only 1-2 new business/year will finally get the go-ahead..provided all papers/notes are in order & double checked....btw do they still provide their free "lion dance" thingy when you do become successful?

bigpearl wrote:

As you well know coach, welcome to the Philippines and the merry go round is not to be trifled with unless your pockets are deep..

I see my investmemt as a "lottery ticket" but with much better odds than in lotteries 

It can be zero back, but more likely 4-8 times my money in 5 years depending of what covid will make with the demand and price people can pay when we become ready to deliver.

manwonder wrote:

They must be overloaded with work & in taking great care in the prevention of suspected fraud at all costs...its real tough with their current IBM PC 5150 system &  I rekon  only 1-2 new business/year will finally get the go-ahead..provided all papers/notes are in order & double checked....btw do they still provide their free "lion dance" thingy when you do become successful?

It's some funny the governmemt try to get more businesses started/LEAVING the black market by register,
while DTI   (=Departmemt of Trade and Industry) have screwed up and made it imposible      by making a not usable business name registration system...  At least not possible for a very common type of business.

We will try to avoid geting such reaction by trying to keep a low profile, but I suppouse it will be hard if we will succeed and buy up "all" such misstreated businesses in the region    
((They are many such misstreated.  We have found almost 10 allready without realy searching.  My businesses partner asked 1-2 he had found,   all the other have contacted us wanting to sell when tsismis had told them we are looking for such to buy.  (One buy decided, plus probably one close if we will agree about the price.  And a third planned later if the conditions for that will be interesting when the deal with oficials will be extended ffor what the third belong too, but not the first two, tthat's why we can buy tthem before thenew conditionss aree decided.)

Chapter 8.
YIPPIE!!!   Finaly the system got changed, we not being refered back to use a not functioning system anymore   
A mystery who ssolved it at DTI..  Perhaps depending of I found a feedback possibility at the website about the website and onliine service, and I wrote about the error in the system. It was a simple thingg to solve for a web developer when they finaly got the error info.

I thought it was done, but during I wrote this I got additional info: 
PERHAPS  done       Inspite of the online system have approved it, we have to wait until the head office send back confirrmation to the local office. THEN we can proceed with next steps in business registration.  So Business Center claim WHOLE registration  process take30 minutes isn't true      
But by my stuppornness and my business partner's much travelling we have passed the NAME registration step     

Edit: Oh and after I had posted I got message it take until Monday -Tuesday NEXT week to get the confirmation to the local ofice. I thought he ment finnish the registration tomorrow      Business center say WHOLE registration process take 30 MINUTES. So that's not true... 
But movingg forward anyway. IF they will approve the name     I said Nonono the the cracy long names they offered,. Finaly we got a three word name through (although we wanted two.)

A partial win is better than no win coach, your determination will get you through, had a similar problem with a MacBook Pro battery recently, won but a lot of frustration to get them to honour a two week old battery they installed with a 12 month warranty, wanted to give our money back because it was too hard to send the faulty battery back and reinstall a new one, "we will put your old battery back in sir" Our response was "no you won't sir because it was faulty and we threw it out knowing we had a 12 month replacement warranty offered by your company" 4 days no laptop but fixed and we won't deal with them again. Choice.

Unfortunately coach you, dealing with bureaucracy have to jump through the hoops and gently/subliminally coach them,,,,, pardon the pun. Good luck and I'm sure your dogged determination will win the day.

Cheers, Steve.

bigpearl wrote:

A partial win is better than no win coach, your determination will get you through,
...
Unfortunately coach you, dealing with bureaucracy have to jump through the hoops and gently/subliminally coach them,,,,, pardon the pun. Good luck and I'm sure your dogged determination will win the day..

Yes.  When they finaly solved the system errors, I were close to stop telling them gentle... 
If they wouldn't have solved it today/tomorrow I had suggested to my business parter to say to DTI:
-If  DTI will not solve this SOON, you will LOSE FACE when such as BIR, SSS, PhilHeaöth and Pag-Ibig get to knpw DTI can't  manage get business name registered.  President Duterte want more busineses registered and will not be happy when my business partner will tell him DTI make it impossiible... 

Told  to DTI with very serious face     I suppouse I would have ffound somehow to send message to the governmemt,
as I found to tell DTI website developer.  I GUESS it was telling the developer, which made it solved, and very fast since  I told at the website feedback at Friday evening. and it's solved today Monday     while not even a sin of  try to solve happened in over a week before that...

When the database system got ssolved finaly, and the system APPROVED the registration. then DTI said the NAME registration ISN'T approved yet!!!           
-It has to be approved ALSO by one of the main DTI offices (which is ELSEWHERE.) Come back Monday--Tuesday next week.)¨

That's tomorrow.  Left to see if it come back NOT approved with demand of we agree to a CRAP very long name, which DTI have given us several suggestions of. NONE of them suiting what we will do, and all faaaaaar to long...
DTIs own instructions have examples with  TWO word business names  (One special name as e g business owner's family name + what's doing main as e g "Reyes Welding"  "Marta's restaurant".)  Inspite of that DTI has offered us no less than FIVE word business names!!! 
I wanted of course TWO words name. In the regitration I agreed to THREE words to get the handler approve it, which were approved by both the system and the handler at the local ofifice -.perhaps just to get rid of us so they could go home   

Chapter 9b.
At afternoon today we got message from DTI we can go there and claim the DTI certificate,  so as they said a week ago it arrived Monday-Tuesday!   
Left to see if it's the same name we got approved by the online ssystem     when going there tomorrow to continue with tthe third of tthe 16 (?) registration steps. 
(It was 16 steps before they made "Business Centres". I haven't checked if they have automiced/cut any of the steps when they made that change.)
. .
During the waiting we have got some more info to put at the Deed of sale of the business with real estate we are buying, so when added to the contract draft, then it's ready to sigm.  (For the first business.) 
Concerning the second we are interested in buying, a hestitating part owner to sell say "Yes" now         But price negotiation haven't even started yet by the part owners haven't decided yet how much they want to ask for it  It's worth SLIGHTY more tthan the first we are buying. Lett to see if they asl slightly more or more more      The first asked very cheap, so  this is WORTH much more (after we have made it good functiooning) but it's a question of if we have enough money.  I suggested tomy business partner to offer them  part pay AFTER we start earning,  if we can't afford to cash all now, but he said he expect the Filipino sellers will say No,  demanding whole direct-  even if we offer significant MORE total than they ask if they agree to get part later - so it would be much better for them to wait with part.  Filipinos aren't known for thinking ahead   
There are others to buy cheap there, but this second one is located perfect just behind the first so one person can guard both at same time, and we  woyld save too when moving employees and equipment between them., so I hope we can reach agreement about this.

Chapter 10.
YIPPIE! Today we got our DTI certificate proof of our business name is approved - and they hadn't changed from what we applied to 

Went to mayor's business registration office.
-Licensing the name at dti isn't enough to use to buy a land.  That's not a business permit
-We know, That's why we are here to get a business permit.
   (But  poker face on at the office 
-This is really new kind of business registration in whole municopaly. No other did it sense time up to present.
    We are BUYING such excisting businesses in this municipaly. They are perhaps not houndreds but sure over 50 just in this municipaly...  But we didn't say this.  Perhaps none of them are registered by it has been imposiblle to even pass DTI step until we made it possible by being stubborn,  not taking No for an answer... 

-Here they are selling such products without business permit,
(WHAT?!   That's illegal... 
-When they make house to displayed then they can get a business permit.
(WHAT?!  Need to have business permit to BUY real estate  and need real estate to have house   

After much arguing they gave the document anyway neeeded to bring to tressurer's office to pay the fee, whch went smooth   
So after hours we got step 3 and 4 done.

Back to mayor's registration office and showed the reciept.
-We want BMBE registtration too.
-???  Eh. What's the purpouse?
-Because we want it to this business.
-Come back Thursday.
So I suppouse the supoused registration handler of such had no clue what it is so he need time to check 

- -
Went to lawyers ofice to get Deed of sale written COMPLEETTE.   (Not the first time we are there and they hadn't added what I had told them to add...)
-Write:  "Condition: Seller provide document showing Right oof way is solved."
-Then the Right of way giver have to sin the Deedd of sale.
-No. It's enough the seller provide it before it's ready to pay. 
(It will go abroad because one of the owners is abroad, then back to Phils with Fedex or such so it will take some time before it's back and signed by the seller in Phils anyway. So seller have time to get such Right of way document before paying time. )
Then the main seller contacted and said want to change the payout to not so generous to minor owner, althouh they have had since january to deciethis, so we didn't get it done this 4th time neither   

- -
Then bought some equipment so we have it to not get locked if we can't get it later if covid screw up.  (From zero to "many" cases intheir messure in short time. There have been no problem there, just some travel resttrictions and demand of facemask and shield.)  So now we have everythin we need to start the business - except the registration and the property        When we have got that, my team don't need to meet anyone except themselves and their families,  I guess they will have at least half year work to correct the mess that first business have.  Plus the time with work if we get a second business too, hope we will get the one just behind,

Then my business partner gave up for today because he was hungry and I told him to not eat in town where the covid cases are so he went home to the hills.
It was a very productive day     - compared to how this has been before   

. .
Tomorrow he will go to look at an additional business for sale. He got phoned yesterday by an aditional business owner, who had heared the rumour we are buying.  But I'm much more curious what the neighbour to the first we buy will say about price they ask, because that's perfect if we can afford it.
That new offer made it complicated by the owner is a powerful person localy so we better not make him grumpy     But we can want this too later when - if   -  we have earned enough from the first two to buy more.

Chapter 11::
YIPPIE!   Today we got Mayor's permit,'

But then we got stucked again by this Business cente don't know what a BMBE is.  (=BARANGGAY Micro Business Enterprice.)  They said  such are done in the province capital, although the LAW and insttructions say it's done in EACH municipaly...
After much mess and time wasteing we got info there is such form to fill in an other ofice in that Business Center   -  which had quit and gone home during we got our time wasted         so we didn't even get the form 


- -  '
But GOOD news today about the businesses we are interested in buying.
/The first have been a mess by owner abroad don't trust their reltives to do part needed to be done in Phils.  So they wanted us to pay big downpayment BEFORE they send the signed contract to Phils!!!   NO WAY I agree to that       I suggested they send it to someone "neutral" to keep until we show we have paid it.
/Second business had one in family not wanting to sell his part, but now it seem he agree to sell and they asked rather much LOWER price than I had expected!
/And got phone from one more wanting to sell.  Seem interesting.  Will check it soon. 

By the second got cheaper than expected it's possible we can manage to buy a third too this early.

Chapter 12:
Today we got the BMBE application form. filled it, left it,, but not geting it handled today.

. ..
But my business partner got happy today inspite of the much time he has got wasted at publlic offices, because he got a new motorbike today.   I "gave" him it, or more correct an interest free loan, which he can work off within max 3 years, because I noticed he had got fed up of walking very long distances to town to these wasting office visits, pushing his very often breaking ancient  motorbike.   He is realy determend to get this done     seen by he walked 30 km in one day this week just to get to this bloody registration office where they don't get things done mostly anyway...     and to get the Deed of sale done to the first we buy.
So now he can drive to inspect more detailed the two businesses we will probably buy as second and third. This he has postponed bbecause  of the problems he has had to get around and tired of trying to ask neighbours to use theirs.

Coach 53-My humble advice is do NOT buy a business here in the Philippines. An "I told you so" will be too late! Common sense is free, A BIG mistake may cost you BIG time!. K SA RA SA RA Take care! Baguio Jimmy

capricornrising wrote:

Coach 53-My humble advice is do NOT buy a business here in the Philippines. An "I told you so" will be too late! Common sense is free, A BIG mistake may cost you BIG time!. K SA RA SA RA Take care! Baguio Jimmy

Big risk you are right,
but there are such for sale for LESS than "junk value".    There are other for sale for much more too, but we skip them and buy the cheap ones   
So far we have made rough checks of 10+. 
/One cheap got sold faster than we were.
/One skiped by much to expensive.
/Some still "on hold" by they asked some higher price than we hope to find to start with, but still cheap. Perhaps we can buy them later too.
/Two other MOST interesting "on hold" because they can be effected by other things will be decided by politicians in a few years. So we want to see that decision before we decide if buying them.  One of them is my favorite of all.
/One we are BUYING now.  If the sellers will sign     They said ok first, but then they added a ridicilous demand because they don't trust THEIR relatives. (The selles are abroad.)  But I believe they accept our solution idea.   The "junk value" is double allready of the price they are asking, and I expect 5-8 times when we have solved the mess they have made by wrong handling.
/Just behind the one we are buying there is a similar. The price is even nicer but less good location if we don't get the other, that's why we want to et that deal first.  My business partner were goin to check that detailed today, but got ill so postponed a few days.
/Before he got ill he went to check an other,, because that would  suit the money we havel left to buy for after the other two. Still cheap but will take longer to earn money from so we put that on hold. When my businesses partner was there this morning, then owners to TWO neighbour businsses  to that noticed what happened and told they want to sell too!        My busineess partner told what price we can be intesterested at and they will think about it.  (They  are smaller than the one went to look at so we can afford both if they agree tosuch price.)   One have perfect location but not so much extra value compared to what we offered,.  My business partner got some ill suddenly so he interupted when he had done only a rough they of the other, but it's at least worth 1.5 times what we offered.  It's the normal price there, owners are eaerto sell to us even very cheap by 1. They don't know how to handle them ggod.  2. It's realy "buyers market" with very low asked prices because of covid.  These two are adjustend to each other which add value to us if we get both.  The one with best location would  suit me to settle at too, space enough to add me there   

Actualy for most of them sellers ask only the value of the LAND or a tiny bit more, so what we get on them are "bohnuses",

When I wrote the "junk values" above I DIDN'T include the land values, only the value of what's on them compared to the asked TOTAL prices.   We haven't even tried to haggle, because I don't want to take advantage of people in crisis, so the two closest to deal we are paying what they asked.

By I know how to solve their wrong handlings, I see the failure risk as very low.  The bigest risk I see is if covid would break the economy so no one will have money to buy our needed product, so prices will be droped at lot or not getiing buyers for all, BUT our bigest product can be exported and the second bigest is very much needed by Filipinos.    (I don'ttell what because I want to buy up all cheap such businesess without anyone come and push up the prices      
We have likvidity budget enough to earn NOTHING during the first 5 years, except earning enough to cover the employee salaries for the EXTRAORDINARY work needed to solve the wrong handlings.  Not much neeeded because I'm good at organicing and salary costs in Phils are low But we will pay the workers NOT by hour but by how much they get DONE good.  My business partner's worker team is used to work like that and it give good workers chance to earn more than normal in Phils, which add motivation - if they aren't lazy and we don'tpick the lazy ones      Acttualy none of them are Filipino. except a few mixed, they are tribe people.  As an American said, who they have made work for:
-They don't drink, they don't gamble, they work... 
Most of the work is simple, so the important is attutude and stamina.
Two days ago my business partner WALKED 2 x 15 km when hus motorbike broke, just to not loe a ay in the startup process!!! although I had told him it isn't that much in a hurry.  The oficials have wasted months so a day or so isn'tso important.  But heis eager to get it started so jobs will be added to him and his team.  Althouh soon it will be my team too  = our 

With theese 4 businsses we can't afford any more NOW, but the plan is to reinvest all my future earnings by go on buying more such.  NOT to kill local competition - most are sold elsewhere anyway - but because we will get winning synergy effects by having them close to each other so we can easy move equipment and employees between them. And same customer types so the marketing can be done as one, and we will market all under same name too.

Summary:  I see it as lottery tickets with very good very good winning chances   

Not registration mess but mess   
We had discused the text in the Deed of sale for the property with business. Saturday we agreed to the STANDARD text a lawyer office had template of to fill. Plus we made a SMALL compleeting text for the lawyer office to add.   They were suppoused to ONLY paste the rather short text we had given them, and perhaps change size of text or scetchmap size LAYOUT to KEEP whole in ONE page.
 
Now I got it back. They had made a total mess of it, CHANGED in the standard template text and  "managed" to make it TWO pages inspite of they had TAKEN AWAY the needed scetchmap of the lot!!!!     iiiiiiii        
If they would have given me the allready filled template as a file, I could have made the small change myself in a few minutes  - without messing it up...   

Second purchase is agreed, just waiting for the seller to find two documents for us to check.

Instead of geting more elsewhere, so we would need guard at two places, I told my busineess partner to try to get a third, which is just beside the two we are buying.  Left to see if owner agree. He isn't interested in it himself, but perhaps he has promised something to relatives, who use part of it to LIVE at. But I got an idea of compensation to the relatives. which would be good for us too IF they are reliable,.  =Let them STAY living there and GUARD by they live there anyway   

After we got Business name apprival and mayor´s permit the rest are just telling BIR, SSS, PhilHealth and Pag-Ibig and get acounting books and the demanded special printed reciepts and invoices, which we will not need in some years - or never   if we will just make cash deals. These need to be done within a month to not risk penalty fee but I suppouse cant get stucked by its just telling them, and because of covid we put priority to the buying of businesses, so the rest of the business registration can be coordinated with  when going to ttown anyway for the checking of documents and buying the bussinses.

The problem with idiot seller I described in earlier post has PERHAPS got a solution by a relative to seller isnt idiot      Monday is planned to go to lawyer to get the Deed of sale done.

Concerning the second we aim at buying we went together with seller to check their dept and documents at municipaly office.  The answer was the dept amount - and wrong owner name and very much wrong land size!!!
They checked the "correct" number according to one oficial map with lot numbers and a document for a neighbour lot, but after my business partner got no battery left in his mobile, I found out they can have checked wrong lot number.  When I looked at an other official map with lot numbers, that one show one digit different.   If the number I found is the correct, then it isnt odd the other did show wrong name and wrong size        
Perhaps better luck Monday...

Both deals where suppoused to be solved today- but of course wasnt the documeents in  order...     

At one the OWNER hadnt changed owner name at Tax since they bought it, so that part we know whats missing. Plus miss common sence from seller, they are idiots, still expecting us to pay downpayment BEFORE they sign and send from abroad the document to a relative in place!!! But today we made a Power of attorney to a relative with sence and in place so both the Tax document and the idiotism  can be solved. IF they sign...

Concerning the other business, when checking that lot number it has wrong owner name too,  but thats NOT odd because the official info say MUCH smaller SIZE than it is both in reality and at the OFFICIAL scetchmap!!!  Lots dont shrnk      (without split survey and no such done there.) So at that one OFFICIALS have messed up somehow.  I believe MIXED UP lots. So owner dont know what happened, neither we nor officials.. 
The mystery continue        by we didnt get any explaination/solution before office closing time today...  I told my business partner to try to get a LIST of ALL lots and owners in that part, so we can pehaps figuere it out ourself- because I dont expect officials will solve it.  Or we can try to show them the CORRECT size and owner to that lot and let then try to solve the REST of the mess themselves      We will go to DENR and see what their info say about that lot number..

And now these oficial offices got closed because of covid before we gpt things solved because of the messes and partly terrible handling...   
Left to see how long time. Info said they will open Monday as if covid will have changed then...

The closing it extended to today.
As explaination to wrong name and much WRONG SIZE at a lot, the property tax  assessor said
"The lot number is only 3 hectares and named to H, but if P will sell it to you, then H should transfer the name to P, or you buy it to H then H transfer it to yiou directly."

    Of course NOT possible to buy it from H when he has sold to P allready years ago...
AND that dont explain the much WRONG SIZE. 
(Regitration at Tax say wrong name and 3 hectares
Seller say six hectares.
Looking at the scetch map (withpout scale but I compare with the known size oif neighbour lot) I say its 10-11 hectares which is an extra reason to buy WHOLE   

So perhaps a SIMPLEwrong - Assssir have mixed up lots
or perhaps a very complicated MESS -  A partion of a lot is sold WITHOUT spluting it with survey   
Thats my THEORIES. 
Hard to get further when assessor answer dont explain how it can have become like that.

We will check at DENR if they have a fourth different size at same lot   

coach53 wrote:

We will check at DENR if they have a fourth different size at same lot

Which DENR didnt let us.  they are demanding document from owner to let us check, but a problem is its unclear who is owner       by assessor say wrong owner and wrong much smaller size...

- -
Now we have got further with the idiots anyway. Instead of agreeing to a NORMAL SIMPLE deal, they  have agreed to a complicated solution idea an "outsider" got, which give the idiots instead of full security they get less than half security     so I WOULDNT agree to that if I were them. (I were prepared to modify that idea to give them full secuirity complicated, but they said Yes!!! )   
But I dont say "YIPPIE" until after we have got the signed document 


- -
During I waited at contract adjusting and the idiots reaction,  I looked around some in a forum for similar businesses and possible customers.  I happened to see one in neighbour municipaly, who will need much such, which we will make. We got contact and preliminary we have got a rather big order before we even have bought any such production business      

((The customer owner told the alterntive he has. We can easy beat that both in price and quality if he buy whole from us so we get the part too where we have most advantage.   Meeting planned as soon as he can get back home because of covid. He is kind of stucked at wrong island by he dont want to waste time in quaratine. He dont want delivery until next season anyway so we have long time to solve things.))