Cost of Living in Portugal in 2021

I have recently relocated to the Algarve and would like to answer some of these questions.

1 - The cost of living in Portugal is high - perhaps ordering an alcoholic drink in a restaurant is less than in Northern European countries, but that is about it.

2 - telecommunications are high

3 - Internet connection is high (same price as for example, in Finland)

4 - electricity is the highest in EU - and that is when there are no breakdowns of electricity (happens quite often)

5 - Gyms - same price as in Northern Europe and not necessarily the same quality.

6 - Public transport - dirty. There are good connections between Lisbon and Porto but poor services in local areas. Portugal is a car based society.

7 - Environment - there is no real recycling. Yes, there are some indications of recycling but in practice there is none. Plenty of lip service but no effort to practice recycling.

8 - Cycling is a health/life risk - very few cycling lanes

9 - Public parks - dirty, no green spaces. Some benches.

10 - Rents - a total horror story. I can only speak for the Algarve where rents are the same as in Scandinavia, contracts are mostly for short term/winter tourists, sub zero quality in construction (50% is made from sea sand which retains moisture hence a great degree of humidity and mould), there is no functionality in design (interiors are rabbit hutches, often  with rectangular rooms, poor natural light owing to small windows), finishings are often of very poor quality (e.g. basins will have no mixer, water will not drain properly, leaving sinks dirty after washing your hands, facets are so nasty that when you wash your hands, you will be splashed with water etc), there are few electric sockets, and even though you may pay for the highest electricity possible, there will still be blackouts if you happen to use 2 electric plates on your stove, for example. Extremely cold and damp in winter, with no central heating. Mould grows everywhere and will affect linen and clothing. Housing has no sound protection and you will hear every footstep your upstair neighbour takes.

11 - Urbanisation - no planned urbanisation.  It's the wild west of raising cement buildings after cement buildings. No privacy for residents, no green spaces, often no garbage collection - or bins are spilling with garbage.

12 - Shopping for groceries - groceries are dark, dingy and dirty. When it rains heavily, it is common to see grocery shops with water running inside. Food and cleaning items are very basic, mostly unhealthy. You will have to run around to different grocery shops in search of basic items - if you can find them at all. Even basic items will run out; you need to stock up when you find them as there is no assurance as to when they will be back in stock.

Apologies if this happens to offend. There are bubbles of luxury where the above may not apply.  However, those bubbles of luxury are a minor characteristic of housing in Portugal.

It really is time to tell the truth - that Portugal is 70-80 years behind the rest of the EU, that this is not charming nor cheap.

Hi Cheryl,

Your letter describes the situation accurately for most parts of Portugal where foreigners congregate. I did not move to the Algarve for exactly the housing problems you describe.

I moved to the Silvercoast, Figueira da Foz. The housing prizes are ok for Portuguese, let’s say about EU300 for a nice enough 2-bedroom apartment, EU400 for a nicer, well built, some luxuries 2-3 bedroom. The very same apartments cost for foreigners EU 600 or more. I am unsure if the real estate agents get a monthly cut of the rent, I did understand from one phone conversation my agent had with the owner of a particular apartment, that she requested EU 50/ month. I was unable to verify that, you will hit a wall of silence trying. I did not rent that apartment, but rented another one. Got cheated massively by the owner with the utilities he requested per contract that those are to remain in his name. My monthly electricity bills were above EU 250,00, for one year July and August were each about EU 650.  Much later I found out, he had 5 apartments and I paid the utilities for all of them. I got that money back by withholding the rent. But he never returned my deposit of 3 month rent despite my taking an attorney.

The shopping is not as bad here as you describe. We have 2 Lidl, 2 Continente, several other large chain stores, and some very well equipped ‘China stores’. You usually find everything, and I buy a lot in a small neighborhood Portuguese store with a little bakery attached. I find food expensive in the chain stores, much cheaper in the Portuguese stores. Eating out I find expensive and we often don’t really like what is served.

We have a gigantic beach with boardwalks, and also some nice public parks.

We have several nice farmer markets, but not very cheap either.

Despite a high rent I am paying, (EU 650) I am happy here. I have ocean view, everything in walking distance, it’s peaceful and quiet. I have wonderful Portuguese neighbors who have fully accepted me. For me security is a high priority, and I feel safe in Portugal. When I weigh everything against each other, there is still more positive then negative. But the negative is growing, sadly.


Butze

Hi Butze,

Thank you for sharing your experience. Am happy for you. Mine has been the worst in my life. I have lost money on a rental I took out, despite being patient and turning a blind eye to the sub standard issues. I find people extremely lazy, (ie. there is no work ethics to speak of), rude (they all enjoy talking down to you as if you were also an animal) and basically find Portugal a failed European state with a cost of living which matches Northern Europe (without any of the quality).

On another note, yes, it is moderately safe - so far. No bombs, though burglaries are increasing on a daily basis in the Algarve.

Hi ACristina,

So very sorry to hear your disappointment. I felt the same negative attitude from people towards foreigners in Porto and for that reason I didn’t move to Porto. The apartments there are small, in not so nice neighborhoods, often far from beach or city center. I see the problem with the housing that real estate investors go unchallenged. There is no government oversight I can detect, Real Estate Agents can’t be trusted and and there is open season on foreigners for rents.

I am keeping my options open at this time. There are political developments in Europe one should watch and react accordingly. Friends of mine have gone to other countries and report nice things. I will wait out the next 3-4 years and make my decision then.

Really sorry to hear you lost money and had such a bad experience. Are you still in Portugal?

Kindly

Butze

It is seriously shocking what happens in Portugal regarding many aspects of life, especially the housing market. There is no comparison with other Southern European countries - even in Italy, in some of the most beautiful places there, you can rent good quality for reasonable prices. Not so in Portugal. At the moment, there are plenty of empty real estates in the Algarve; all waiting for the tourist season to make their "kill". Furnished flats are a nightmare with the most horrendous furniture possible. It's as if they have dumped all the garbage furniture in one tiny small place. There are actually people renting out HUTS and garden sheds which have no human standards.

Health and safety? What is that??? I don't like extremes but there does not need to be some standard of health and safety levels.

It's criminal that urban myths about Portugal keep on circulating - there are no bombs and there is a relative degree of safety. However, unless one is very wealthy, there is NO quality of life. Portuguese people do not live - they survive. And that is not correct.

Sunshine alone does not qualify for good standard of living.

Yes, trapped in Portugal for the time being. Completely horrified and frankly think it is time that truths be told. Otherwise it is simply complying with urban myths and repetitive marketing which suits only a minority (who obviously benefit from the exploitation, corruption and primitive life standards in Portugal).

ACristina,

Have you considered moving away from the Algarve? The Silvercoast seems largely untouched by what is happening in the Algarve. We are only a handful foreigners here. There are places more frequented like Caldas da Rainha, which seems to attract lots of Brits, but Figueira da Foz, Coimbra, Aveiro, Braga, Tomar.... have only few foreigners. Figueira is a local tourist place, many Portuguese have a second home here. It’s very quiet for 9 month out of the year, maybe too quiet for some?

You sound so disappointed and truly hurt, I would like to help.

Butze

Hi Butze,

Very thoughtful of you. Yes, I am considering moving. The Algarve has become a disgraceful hunting ground for foreigners who will pay extremely high rents for very little quality. People in the Algarve have no sense of work ethics nor customer service, merely shrugging (when not insulting customers outright) justifying non-professional attitudes as "this is how it is done in Portugal" - of course, after one has paid high European prices.

This is not acceptable anywhere, why should it be acceptable in Portugal???

Not disappointed. Disgusted by what I see and have experienced here. And frankly, if there is still freedom of speech which is characteristic of democratic countries (which Portugal claims to be still) then I must be honest. It's no insult to be honest nor do I mean any insult to anyone. However, this is the reality of Portugal - a failed European state where corruption reigns, where prices as are high as in Northern Europe, where there is a savage lack of quality, and life is very basic, (when not primitive).

ACristina,

Should you consider moving into my area, please do contact me. I will gladly give you my contact info.

I agree that corruption and nepotism are rampant in Portugal. Still it’s not as bad, by far, as in Asian countries. Italy and Spain are the same in this regard. It seems to be a sign of the darker times we are living in and I sense it will get worse. Overall Portugal is not that bad when compared to the rest of the world. I try to keep that in mind when I get cheated or mistreated by some.

All the Best to your move

Butze

Thank you so much for your kind words - that indeed is a novelty for me in Portugal!

> What is the price of a property rental in Portugal? What about buying a property?

I don't know, we bought a property, because we have a dog it was nearly impossible to find a rental, so we just ended up buying a 1 bd apt in algarve.

> How much does petrol cost or how much does it cost to use the various public transport services?

Petrol is very expensive, but there are tricks to get it cheaper ! Yes you heard right ! Some gas stations fight on prices on the week end, so refuel your tank on saturday , it's a good habit ( sometimes you'll see a little lane of course ). And if you have a Portuguese Credit Card you can get extra cashback ( 12 cents per litre in my case ) in some gas stations, so you really have to do your homework.

> How much do you spend on average on your weekly groceries in Portugal? Have you noticed a change in the price of staple foodstuff?

We eat organic, we find that everything is more expensive than in the rest of Europe, it is also very hard to find organic food outside of lisboa, it has a tendency to grow more and more though. In algarve there was almost nothing 3 years ago, now more and more stores are offering it, and there's even an "grass fed" butcher available in almancil now.

> What is the price of your health insurance? How much does seeing a general practitioner or specialist cost?
We are still in business in france, so our insurance is covered via our french business.

> How much are your children's school fees? What about the cost of childcare?

no kids for us.

> How much do you spend on your regular bills (water, electricity, mobile phone package, internet subscription etc.) on a monthly basis?
we're 2
Water  :  20€ a month
Electricity 80 ( we have 2 devices that are cleaning the air of the apt all the time and they use a lot of energy, but we need that for my wife's lungs )
internet : 36
GAS  : 70  ( long showers ! )

( i missed the opportunity of a package a 19 a month by one day, what a bumer ! ).  NOS is usually cheaper than MEO ( we have NOS fiber optics with no TV nor  téléphone)


> What budget do you set aside for your leisure activities in Portugal? What is the price of a cinema or concert ticket? How much does a subscription to a gym cost?

we pay 70/month for our gym , i think you can go much much cheaper, but we have chosen one with heated pool and all kind of stuff ( since we work long hours from home, we like to have our little quality time outside, we don't really look for prices for such things, especially when it's health related )

I also have a bad back due to too much sitting at the desk , so weekly yoga/stretching/massage (thanks hoya!) : 40€/week or sometimes osteopat when i'm completely stuck ( 25€ for an hour )

Other expenses : bottled water ( very expensive here ! ) since we don't have the space to put a filtering device in our appartment we have to buy bottle water,the tap water is terrible.
Tolls ( about 10€ a month )
Hairdresser ( 10€ for me , 50€ for my wife for a color+cut in a fancy organic hair dresser )
Little flower bouquet : 10€

Good organic japanese Tea : impossible to find (we order it from germany via DHL , spoillllllled ! )
Good organic coffee : same thing, impossible to find.

Hello All 
If I may, I would like to comment on some of the posts in this quite interesting conversation.

Although this is a public forum and I cannot have the freedom of expression that both of you (ACristina and Butze) have shown here, I don't understand how such unhappy people can still be living in Portugal. What I would like to say concerning this is that if, one day, I were to be given NHR status in your countries, Finland and Switzerland, I would never choose them to live. I wouldn't want to be unhappy or make the others unhappy with my bad mood as a result of it.

@ACristina:
1 - The cost of living in the Algarve is high, especially during the summer season, but much less in winter. There are other regions much more affordable. Eg. The prices in Nice will not be the same as in some districts of Marseille or Paris...

2&3 - Telecommunications:

http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui … p;lang=en.

According to Eurostat, telecommunication prices in Portugal are above the EU average. It is the fifth highest telecommunications country after Cyprus, Greece, Czech Republic and Hungary. This situation will tend to be solved with the entry of new operators in 5G. But being you from countries with greater purchasing power than Portugal, I don't understand why you complain so much.... I do not complain.

4 - According to Eurostat, electricity in Portugal is not the most expensive in the EU, as you wrongly said, but the eighth, after Germany, Denmark, Belgium, Ireland, Spain, Italy and Cyprus.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic … statistics

5 - Gymns. What are the basis for comparison? There are good and bad gyms anywhere in the world...we need to be accurate in these general statements.

6 - Portugal is still a car-based society, despite the effort that is being made to increase the number of bike paths and reduce car use. But do not want to compare what there is in Northern Europe with the rest of the world.... do you want to talk about now China and USA ? ...

7 - Environment and recycling: Portugal has been following a path towards meeting the EU recycling targets for 2030. The EU has established that by 2025 member states should reach an effective recycling rate of 55%, and by 2030, this rate will rise to 65%. In 2018, the recycling rate was 28.9% in Portugal and 47.4% in the EU. In 2019 Portugal recycled 10% more compared to 2018, i.e nearly 32%.

2018:
https://www.pordata.pt/Europa/Taxa+of+r … cipal-3426

2019:
https://www.publico.pt/2020/04/07/local … 19-1911280


8 - Bicycles: there is an effort made by local governments to improve bicycle use and by increasing cycle lanes.

http://www.ciclovia.pt/index.html

9 - Public parks: I don't know which parks you are referring to. This depends on the town councils and the maintenance of these green spaces. You cannot generalise a whole country like this way versus the neighbourhood where you live.

10/11 - Real estate/rentings: I don't even bother to comment this. You will find quality depending on what you want to pay. Here and anywhere else... When you are renting a house somewhere, you know what you are counting on. If you don't like it, you don't rent there, trying to choose another place. You don't have to live in bitterness all your life, isn't that so?

12 - Groceries: All the shopping I do is in hypermarkets, supermarkets, mini-markets, bakeries, ... with quality and without stock rupture. If, by chance, I enter in a place like you have mentioned, and I don't like it, I don't come back there anymore... If I live in a place without good commercial spaces, I prefer to buy less often, mostly in places with higher commercial offering.


As for the country being 70-80 years behind the rest of the EU: you are probably right ... I believe that after Finland became independent from Russia at the end of 1917, if it lived better in the 1940s...    I have been in Helsinki in 2012 and I really felt sad and depressed. But I didn't feel that way in Stockholm and Tallinn, by the way. Neither alcoholic drinks that Finns and Swedes usually drink during the boat trip between Stockholm and Helsinki, while singing Karaokis, were helpful to getting me away from so much sadness.

@ACristina, sometimes frustration in these grey days of pandemic makes us willing to creative writing, while hoping that those who read us will also be tolerant with our creativity.

@Butze, I've noticed already that you are particularly active in these topics that speak badly of this country. Please, don't wait more 3-4 years and change now, although Portugal is not so bad, compared to the rest of the world, as you are saying here...

I'm sure you both will be much happier elsewhere else. All the best to you both

Thank you JohnnyPT! I moved from Canada 🇨🇦 , beautiful country, to Algarve last October, because I had been there two years earlier and fell in love.

I had no problem finding a nice, modern rental with everything working well under €700 per month only ten minutes walk to the beautiful beaches.

In Canada, cell phone and internet are terribly expensive and there is very few places for free wifi. I pay €150 for cell phone and internet - my plan is €24 euro/ month for my cell plan.

I have never experienced any crime, and everyone I have asked for help getting my D7 residency visa went out of their way to help me. Arrived October 1, and had my residency card, NIF, bank account in less than 8 weeks... even with Covid-19 and all of the closures.

Unfortunately, I had to return to Canada for a few months, but cannot wait to get back to my new home in Algarve.

@ACristina  So, perhaps Portugal is not the place for you, but it certainly isn’t as bad as yo have portrayed.

Take care and I hope you find a nice place in the world to be at peace.

It all depends on points of references. I don't take back anything I said - they are facts.

If people wish to see reality with rose tinted glasses, that's fine as well. Portugal is indeed the most backward country in the EU, where quality of life for citizens is practically non-existent. I find that unacceptable, just as I find complete lack of work ethics unacceptable.

It may be all rosy for wealthy expats, but not all expats are wealthy . If a country as corrupt as Portugal only exists to live off foreigners, that too is a pathetic excuse of a country.

Again, these are realities many people wish to turn away from. That's ok. However there are many people who do see these realities and do not find them charming.

I’m an expat, but hardly wealthy. I’m sorry your experience has not been positive, but please don’t paint the whole country through your black coloured glasses.

So, I wish you well, but perhaps your ideal place to live is elsewhere. 

Stay safe

@ACristina: for me, it makes more sense to have a country with 900 years of history (that it has already been through a lot), than another one that was part of Sweden until 1809, then it was part of the Russian Empire for over 100 years and never had, has or will have any cultural, historical and linguistic legacy to the world....I won't comment any further, because I am not in this forum to be incorrect with anyone
Be happy and secure, it's the most important thing.

Thank you @LorieAnneC. That's very kind of you. Unfortunately in these public forums we find people who say what they want, as a result of also being fed with fake news in their own countries...

You will always be welcome
Unfortunately, the NHR scheme has changed for Swedes and Finns. It's a pity we don't have more friendly, correct and hard-working people like you here.

From Portugal To Finland With Love...
https://youtu.be/RfXH4-Aq-Zs

Best regards

My understanding with the practice or custom of renting or buying a home in Portugal is that it is assumed by the rental property owner or seller of the home that the renter/buyer will haggle with the price.  Thus the advertised price is always inflated.  Perhaps, most foreigner are unaware of this practice.

Hi, if Cristina and Butz find it bad now in Portugal, you should have got here 20 years ago.  I think that if you just come here to retire, can afford a nice dry home, enjoy the basic food and wine and the weather (mostly it is nice), then you can enjoy Portugal.  If you come here to work, or have work done, well..... that is another story.  I think it all comes down to expectations.  Most of us expect to do better when we move, not worse.  Moisture indoors is always going to be a problem, unless you have the money to build or fix it.  Electricity, need I say more. Petrol ditto.  Gas is 10 or more euros here than in Spain.  Food, it has got better, but if something is not popular, buy this month, next time no longer available.  Schooling, horrible for my kids, but we persevered and got though it, although both finished 2 years after one would normally finish.  Work ethic - for most - what is that?  It is a beautiful country, but if you want to live like you think you should be living, well not always possible.

The Covid-19 pandemic, in addition to a health and economic crisis, has also shown that it has been compounded by corruption, something that the world is currently failing to combat, said this Thursday the president of Transparency International (TI).

In the non-governmental organisation's annual report on the Corruption Perception Index, which analyses 180 countries and territories, Delia Ferreira Rubio regretted that the picture has remained somewhat global, where most states have seen little or no improvement in combating the phenomenon in almost a decade. Portugal is down three places to 33rd, its lowest score since 2012.

https://observador.pt/2021/01/28/crise- … rnacional/


Corruption Perceptions Index 2020: Global Scores
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020

Europe (including EU)
______________________________________________
Rank;Country;CPI score 2020;

1;Denmark;88;
3;Finland;85;
3;Sweden;85;
3;Switzerland;85;
7;Norway;84;
8;Netherlands;82;
9;Germany;80;
9;Luxembourg;80;
11;United Kingdom;77;
15;Austria;76;
15;Belgium;76;
17;Estonia;75;
17;Iceland;75;
20;Ireland;72;
23;France;69;
32;Spain;62;
33;Portugal;61;
35;Lithuania;60;
35;Slovenia;60;
42;Cyprus;57;
42;Latvia;57;
45;Poland;56;
45;Georgia;56;
49;Czechia;54;
52;Italy;53;
52;Malta;53;
59;Greece;50;
60;Slovakia;49;
60;Armenia;49;
63;Croatia;47;
63;Belarus;47;
67;Montenegro;45;
69;Bulgaria;44;
69;Hungary;44;
69;Romania;44;
86;Turkey;40;
94;Kazakhstan;38;
94;Serbia;38;
104;Albania;36;
104;Kosovo;36;
111;Bosnia and Herzegovina;35;
111;North Macedonia;35;
115;Moldova;34;
117;Ukraine;33;
124;Kyrgyzstan;31;
129;Azerbaijan;30;
129;Russia;30;
146;Uzbekistan;26;
149;Tajikistan;25;
165;Turkmenistan;19;


World
______________________________________________
Rank 2020;CountryCPI score 2020;

1;Denmark;88;
1;New Zealand;88;
3;Finland;85;
3;Singapore;85;
3;Sweden;85;
3;Switzerland;85;
7;Norway;84;
8;Netherlands;82;
9;Germany;80;
9;Luxembourg;80;
11;Australia;77;
11;Canada;77;
11;Hong Kong;77;
11;United Kingdom;77;
15;Austria;76;
15;Belgium;76;
17;Estonia;75;
17;Iceland;75;
19;Japan;74;
20;Ireland;72;
21;United Arab Emirates;71;
21;Uruguay;71;
23;France;69;
24;Bhutan;68;
25;Chile;67;
25;United States of America;67;
27;Seychelles;66;
28;Taiwan;65;
29;Barbados;64;
30;Bahamas;63;
30;Qatar;63;
32;Spain;62;
33;Portugal;61;
33;Korea, South;61;
35;Botswana;60;
35;Brunei Darussalam;60;
35;Israel;60;
35;Lithuania;60;
35;Slovenia;60;
40;Saint Vincent and the Grenadines;59;
41;Cabo Verde;58;
42;Costa Rica;57;
42;Cyprus;57;
42;Latvia;57;
45;Georgia;56;
45;Poland;56;
45;Saint Lucia;56;
48;Dominica;55;
49;Czechia;54;
49;Oman;54;
49;Rwanda;54;
52;Grenada;53;
52;Italy;53;
52;Malta;53;
52;Mauritius;53;
52;Saudi Arabia;53;
57;Malaysia;51;
57;Namibia;51;
59;Greece;50;
60;Armenia;49;
60;Jordan;49;
60;Slovakia;49;
63;Belarus;47;
63;Croatia;47;
63;Cuba;47;
63;Sao Tome and Principe;47;
67;Montenegro;45;
67;Senegal;45;
69;Bulgaria;44;
69;Hungary;44;
69;Jamaica;44;
69;Romania;44;
69;South Africa;44;
69;Tunisia;44;
75;Ghana;43;
75;Maldives;43;
75;Vanuatu;43;
78;Argentina;42;
78;Bahrain;42;
78;China;42;
78;Kuwait;42;
78;Solomon Islands;42;
83;Benin;41;
83;Guyana;41;
83;Lesotho;41;
86;Burkina Faso;40;
86;India;40;
86;Morocco;40;
86;Timor-Leste;40;
86;Trinidad and Tobago;40;
86;Turkey;40;
92;Colombia;39;
92;Ecuador;39;
94;Brazil;38;
94;Ethiopia;38;
94;Kazakhstan;38;
94;Peru;38;
94;Serbia;38;
94;Sri Lanka;38;
94;Suriname;38;
94;Tanzania;38;
102;Gambia;37;
102;Indonesia;37;
104;Albania;36;
104;Algeria;36;
104;Cote d'Ivoire;36;
104;El Salvador;36;
104;Kosovo;36;
104;Thailand;36;
104;Vietnam;36;
111;Bosnia and Herzegovina;35;
111;Mongolia;35;
111;North Macedonia;35;
111;Panama;35;
115;Moldova;34;
115;Philippines;34;
117;Egypt;33;
117;Eswatini;33;
117;Nepal;33;
117;Sierra Leone;33;
117;Ukraine;33;
117;Zambia;33;
123;Niger;32;
124;Bolivia;31;
124;Kenya;31;
124;Kyrgyzstan;31;
124;Mexico;31;
124;Pakistan;31;
129;Azerbaijan;30;
129;Gabon;30;
129;Malawi;30;
129;Mali;30;
129;Russia;30;
134;Laos;29;
134;Mauritania;29;
134;Togo;29;
137;Dominican Republic;28;
137;Guinea;28;
137;Liberia;28;
137;Myanmar;28;
137;Paraguay;28;
142;Angola;27;
142;Djibouti;27;
142;Papua New Guinea;27;
142;Uganda;27;
146;Bangladesh;26;
146;Central African Republic;26;
146;Uzbekistan;26;
149;Cameroon;25;
149;Guatemala;25;
149;Iran;25;
149;Lebanon;25;
149;Madagascar;25;
149;Mozambique;25;
149;Nigeria;25;
149;Tajikistan;25;
157;Honduras;24;
157;Zimbabwe;24;
159;Nicaragua;22;
160;Cambodia;21;
160;Chad;21;
160;Comoros;21;
160;Eritrea;21;
160;Iraq;21;
165;Afghanistan;19;
165;Burundi;19;
165;Congo;19;
165;Guinea Bissau;19;
165;Turkmenistan;19;
170;Democratic Republic of the Congo;18;
170;Haiti;18;
170;Korea, North;18;
173;Libya;17;
174;Equatorial Guinea;16;
174;Sudan;16;
176;Venezuela;15;
176;Yemen;15;
178;Syria;14;
179;Somalia;12;
179;South Sudan;12;

Thank you Butze for being so willing to participate here with this kind of posts. Unfortunately, I didn't see you having this courtesy and willingness to answer the help that I gave you, as in the questions you asked about your testament making which I have answered weeks ago...


You are probably living in Portugal now because you sincerely like living here. For those who might be interested, it can be read in your postings in this forum:

#2 "Hi Everybody, Just recently, 1. Sept. 2020 I moved from Spain, Costa del Sol, Malaga to Portugal and experienced absolutely no problems. ...
Good Luck to all of you !
Loving Portugal, the people, the wine, the food, the castles, the museums, cities.....
Jutta"

#7 "the Portuguese are one of the politest and kindest people I’ve met during my world travels. Still, Portugal is a safe country, much safer then others, also I as a women feel completely safe walking at 3 am on the street. I have a plan ‘B’ for the future should the political situation further deteriorate. But for now Portugal is home."


You probably have run away from the Costa del Sol because of the illegal occupations that sweep up spanish cities and spread terror. The pandemic has given greater visibility to this phenomenon that is leaving thousands of landlords in despair to recover their homes invaded and destroyed by strangers, who take advantage of legal loopholes and delays in spanish justice to settle for months or years. Fear and violence are spreading through the streets of Spain's cities.

The grave scourge of "squatting" in Spain:

https://atalayar.com/en/blog/grave-scou … ting-spainhttps://english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/ … 47830.htmlhttps://www.jn.pt/nacional/especial/ocu … 59332.html

(...)


You probably don't want to live in Germany, Switzerland, Austria,.... or another European country, certainly better placed in that corruption index you have mentioned here, although you are fluent in German, English, .... Why?

You probably don't live in the USA with your family, where your daughter and granddaughter live, because you don't feel safe there. We all know that the United States has experienced violence that we are all witnessing in the media, also as a result of intolerance and ignorance of many... Anyone here are fond on the United States, but I remind you that like Japan, the United States has one of the largest per capita debts in the world. The United States was also the cradle of the Sub-Prime crisis which triggered a global financial crisis. And isn't that corruption or, more accurately, american style corruption?

Unfortunately, the Portuguese have to suffer from these jokes and fake news fed in some European countries because of our common currency, the euro. This small corruption does exist, due to few people, but unfortunately this is widespread for all of us... I could explain it in detail here, but I should not, because I had to talk about political facts and about certain people ...

Corruption Perceptions Index 2020: Global Scores
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020
(Please see my previous post)


You know Butze, it is common to say in Portugal that it's sad to see people spitting on the plate where they eat... People unkind with Portugal, unkind with the Portuguese, but they don't stop living here, and don't want to leave. Nor do they need a plan B.

Intolerance and hating begin with small phrases and expressions. In public forums like this one, on facebook, on twitter, in the streets, in the shops where we do our shopping. Intolerance begins when we think that others are lesser than us, because yes. When we think that others work worse than us, because yes. When we laugh at clichés about other people, because yes. When we think that the life of the others is less important than ours, because yes.

When we think that the Portuguese immigrants who left in the 60s and 70s for some countries (to work hard and often be mistreated...) after all, it is they who still represent the present-day country, 60 years later... Because yes.

Germany and the whole central Europe have rebuilt from the destruction of the Second World War largely thanks to immigrants. Portugal also helped in that reconstruction when, unfortunately, many Portuguese had to emigrate to other countries in the 60s and 70s to escape a bloody colonial war that lasted more than 15 years, more than twice as long as the Second World War, and a dictatorship of more than 50 years, which fully limited the economic development and access to education of its citizens.

By limiting the access to information and education, it makes people less demanding and more dependent on conditions that are given in other countries. Unfortunately, it seems that we are now seeing the same thing again, in the 21st century, in several countries in Europe and in the World, with the use of disinformation and widespread hating. While repeating the mistakes of the past. We are lucky today to have access to education and information if we want it and know how to search for it...

I also remember that in Germany and Finland in the 40s, their inhabitants were starving to death. Although someone here said that they lived there very well. Economic cycles are changing more and more rapidly, what was yesterday is not today, and what is today is not tomorrow. The pandemic was easily able to show this. We have to know how to respect Nature and the Other One, who is at our side after all...

Do you remember how the Second World War began? We have to be kind and polite to all people if we want that the others be kind and polite with us too. Our little gestures make all the difference. For the better and for the worse. You wrote here that you had less happy moments here. Wasn't it your fault?... We receive from the Universe what we give to it...

Butze, I would like to ask you to be respectful and kind to all the members of this forum. Please do not feed this spiral of verbal violence. I also ask the moderators of this forum to be more aware of this.

I have always been kind and polite to you. I try to help everyone, without discrimination of race, skin colour, country of origin, continent, I don't care if you are rich or poor... regardless of the motivations that lead expat in the present or in the future to look for information about Portugal ... You can check this by consulting all my posts.

I hope that you will also be gentle and polite towards the Portuguese and Portugal. Comparing the way you are addressing ACristina with the way you are addressing me reveals a lot... I leave the readers freedom to draw their own conclusions and to understand (perhaps?) the reason for your small problems in Portugal...

Look around you and I am sure you will be happier. Perhaps you did that when you decided to be an expat in other countries. Do you still remember?

All the Best, for You and Yours.

Hi JohnnyPT
We ditto what you have wrote.
We moved here 3yrs ago its our home now & we love & respect everything about Portugal 😀

Hi, For All Expats, I would just like to mention the following, to avoid any disappointments:

- For those who want the advances of a rich country just much cheaper and on a warm beach, with a couple of palm trees on the sand... Forget Portugal. There are better options in the world, South America and North Africa are options to be considered.

- For those who want to enjoy real cultural shocks, there are much more interesting, radical and cheap options in the world.

- For those who want to practice compassion (yes, I know what it is), you can do it in your own country, but also in Portugal or in any other country in the world. There are plenty of people who need and should be helped everywhere.

- For those who want to find a country where all people are good, honest, who like and help everyone, both from the same country but also from abroad, a true paradise of angels on Earth... Forget it, please don't be under this illusion about life. This place doesn't exist. Portugal is not the City of Angels, I'm not Nicolas Cage, although I really like the soundtrack composed by Gabriel Yared

For my part, I will try to help in what I can and know. Without personal interests of any kind.

Pro Bono Publicae

Hello All
I would like to make clear up the following:

- I am not a lawyer. If I were a lawyer, I would not ask you to look for lawyers, solicitors, etc. on the internet. If I were a lawyer, I would send my contact by private message, as many do here, and I would earn money from it.

- I have nothing to do with real estate. I put here topics about buying and selling houses, short and long term rentals, alerts to be aware in buying/renting houses, ... to avoid as much as possible, negative experiences and third parties involved that get money with that. I try to make this business as transparent as possible, where everyone has access to information and prices. With the Internet, only those who want to, are fooled.

I have nothing to do with any business regarding expats. If I wanted to make money with expats, I would not subject myself to such kind of discussion, as everyone has just seen here...

What drives me? I just got tired of seeing here a stereotypical and wrong idea of Portugal that doesn't correspond to the reality.

Portugal is History, Culture, Art... It is full of good and honest people, although I have to admit that, unfortunately, there are some people who take advantage of expats. But not only with expats, those people also take advantage of the portuguese too. But this doesn't just happen here, it happens everywhere. I have also already been deceived in some european countries very well placed in the index that has been mentioned here...

But in recognising and regretting this, I try to inform on the most varied subjects, from health to furniture, from pets to citizenship, ....

Fortunately, the great majority of expats recognize that.

And for this only reason, it has been already worthwhile

Hi everyone,

Kindly note that a few posts have been removed from this thread.

We are going way too off topic now, can we please get back to the subject of this thread which is Cost of living in Portugal in 2021 ?

Thank you,

Priscilla
Expat.com Team

Priscilla/Expat Team: Thank you! I don't know why some people come on these threads and have to hijack them, with long, rambling messages, devoid of facts, veering off topic and incoherent. They are free to start their own political thread, where they can rant to their hearts desire. Most of us are here looking for information on the topic at hand. Hugs & kisses!

Cheryl-Buying property: be sure to find a knowledgeable realtor and educate yourself before buying (do you want to build your own, remodel, does it need to be your perfect house/apartment?). Rent something in the direct area, before you buy. If you can actually rent the house/apartment before you buy it, that's even better.

Cost of living in Portugal
1) property: never looked at rental but to by we found very reasonable far cheaper than the uk.
2) fuel: petrol on par with uk / public transport used the trains decided to go first class from the algarve to Lisbon cost 30€ each 1 way bargain would never dream of trying to go first class in the us a local train ride can cost a fortune.
3) weekly shop: we spent between 30/50€ a week we buy bottled water the water we buy is called Mil Fontes natural spring water from Aldi its 6L for 65cents in my eyes that is not dear at all.
4) health insurance: depends on age & what cover required
5) children: N/A
6) utility bills: water 17€ p/m, electric 40€pm, mobile, internet, tv, landline 55€p/m.
7) gyms: sorry don’t do gyms as have enough land to do natural exercises as in gardening general looking after plants, orange trees also retired.
8) cinemas, theatre: do not know the prices as have never been we do cultural interaction with our Portuguese neighbors you learn a lot more that way better than sitting in a cinema.
9) eating out: ( when restrictions allow COVID related) if you go to where the locals eat then you will not only get a very nice meal but you will not pay over the odds either we can get  a meal of the day with  beers 🍻 for 20€ for 2 people also interaction with locals priceless.
We don’t shop or eat in expensive places that way our pensions go a lot further.

Hi JohnnyPT
Thank you for liking my post on cost of living in Portugal, I just wanted people to know that no matter how much money someone has you can live comfortably & within your means in Portugal just by being prudent. As I said in my post we are both on pensions but we live pretty well just by doing small things like irrigating our garden in the cheap hours same with doing the washing, shopping savvy.
At the end of the day its not rocket science its common sense.

Hi Denise,
I have put the like in your post because you shared your experience in a polite and helpful way, allowing other expats to know about it. The forum is for knowledge sharing.

By creating this dynamism in sharing, it promotes empowerment and inclusion while preventing negative experiences, which are neither good for the expats themselves nor for the country where they live.

All the best.

After reading your comment about the increasing crime in Portugal, I started conducting my own research and got really shocked after I discovered the crime rate is unfortunately, escalating rapidly in a very high rate specially Algarve reaches five-year high in crimes.

> What is the price of a property rental in Portugal? What about buying a property?
850€ for T2, 1Bath in Costa Caparica

> How much does petrol cost or how much does it cost to use the various public transport services?
Only about €30-40 max each month for Ubers to markets

> How much do you spend on average on your weekly groceries in Portugal? Have you noticed a change in the price of staple foodstuff? Prices have gone significantly higher in the last 12-16 months.  I generally spend about €60 per week as well as one meal per week ordered in at about €20

> What is the price of your health insurance? How much does seeing a general practitioner or specialist cost? Have not seen a doctor in Portugal yet.  Currently see my Dr in the US twice a year when I fly back.

> How much are your children's school fees? What about the cost of childcare?  No children

> How much do you spend on your regular bills (water, electricity, mobile phone package, internet subscription etc.) on a monthly basis? water€20, gas/electric winter is €100, summer €40 phone, TV, internet combined is €75

> What budget do you set aside for your leisure activities in Portugal? What is the price of a cinema or concert ticket? How much does a subscription to a gym cost? Do not see movies here.  Concerts were relatively inexpensive vs. the US and were about €50. Gym is free in my building.

GuestPoster304 wrote:

I have recently relocated to the Algarve and would like to answer some of these questions.

1 - The cost of living in Portugal is high - perhaps ordering an alcoholic drink in a restaurant is less than in Northern European countries, but that is about it.

2 - telecommunications are high

3 - Internet connection is high (same price as for example, in Finland)

4 - electricity is the highest in EU - and that is when there are no breakdowns of electricity (happens quite often)

5 - Gyms - same price as in Northern Europe and not necessarily the same quality.

6 - Public transport - dirty. There are good connections between Lisbon and Porto but poor services in local areas. Portugal is a car based society.

7 - Environment - there is no real recycling. Yes, there are some indications of recycling but in practice there is none. Plenty of lip service but no effort to practice recycling.

8 - Cycling is a health/life risk - very few cycling lanes

9 - Public parks - dirty, no green spaces. Some benches.

10 - Rents - a total horror story. I can only speak for the Algarve where rents are the same as in Scandinavia, contracts are mostly for short term/winter tourists, sub zero quality in construction (50% is made from sea sand which retains moisture hence a great degree of humidity and mould), there is no functionality in design (interiors are rabbit hutches, often  with rectangular rooms, poor natural light owing to small windows), finishings are often of very poor quality (e.g. basins will have no mixer, water will not drain properly, leaving sinks dirty after washing your hands, facets are so nasty that when you wash your hands, you will be splashed with water etc), there are few electric sockets, and even though you may pay for the highest electricity possible, there will still be blackouts if you happen to use 2 electric plates on your stove, for example. Extremely cold and damp in winter, with no central heating. Mould grows everywhere and will affect linen and clothing. Housing has no sound protection and you will hear every footstep your upstair neighbour takes.

11 - Urbanisation - no planned urbanisation.  It's the wild west of raising cement buildings after cement buildings. No privacy for residents, no green spaces, often no garbage collection - or bins are spilling with garbage.

12 - Shopping for groceries - groceries are dark, dingy and dirty. When it rains heavily, it is common to see grocery shops with water running inside. Food and cleaning items are very basic, mostly unhealthy. You will have to run around to different grocery shops in search of basic items - if you can find them at all. Even basic items will run out; you need to stock up when you find them as there is no assurance as to when they will be back in stock.

Apologies if this happens to offend. There are bubbles of luxury where the above may not apply.  However, those bubbles of luxury are a minor characteristic of housing in Portugal.

It really is time to tell the truth - that Portugal is 70-80 years behind the rest of the EU, that this is not charming nor cheap.

Living in Portugal for over 5 years now I would say that the above assessment is too negative und probably based on lack of experience in Portugal.

Now to the points mentioned:

1 - this is wrong and can even be confirmed on www.numbeo.com
2 - Telecom is not expensive
3 - Internet is not expensive and pretty fast also compared o Germany
4 - true
5 - true
6 - not true in most of Portugal
7 - not true in most of Portugal.
8 - true
9 - not true in most of Portugal
10 - I agree in that Lisbon, the Algarve and the line from Lisbon to Cascais are a complete rip-off
11 - true
12 - not true

Portugal is many yeras behind the rest of the EU, it has many parts that I don't consider charming, but it has really nice parts as well. Portugal cna be cheap and expensive.

BUT, I think that Portugal is over-hyped and not as fantastic as travel websites want you make believe. In a way this is true for most countries I been to.

One should not say true / false.... everything has an explanation and I have tried to explain this before. Honestly, this conversation leads nowhere, because each person has different perceptions, different expectations, different demands and different financial capacities. They live in different places, know different realities...

This person you have quoted, apart from being an NHR, having tax benefits, have written this absolutely regrettable post, about which everything has already been said.

And by the way, this person has already deleted her account on this forum ....

I agree with most of your post. I disagree with the not saying true/false. Not everything is relative.

I hope that Portugal will not deteriorate too much during the C19 crisis ... and a crisis it is.

I also hope (and I truly believe this, indeed), that the majority of expats in Portugal, do not deteriorate this country as well, as two people in this conversation have done here... If they are not well here, there are over 200 countries in the world to go to !

I didn't write that the expat deteriorate Portugal. The Covid Crisis does, though.

I still consider Portugal to be highly over-rated in the media. That doesn't say that we are living very comfortably near Torres Vedras. And it doesn't say that there isn't much to see in this country with a long history.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Being Portuguese and having lived my whole life here, what this user says is completely true, no sugar coating.

Portugal stopped in time. Rent is too expensive, young people have no future, therefore decide to move to other countries. I myself am planning on moving to the US.

Simple exercise:
Imagine living with the average portuguese wage of 750€ before taxes.

Most jobs are in the city or around it. So now try finding a flat for less than 500€/month. Don't forget your transportation pass of 40€, plus electricity, phone, gas and water bills, let's say 75 (one person). We haven't even considered food, medical bills, clothing and you're already broke. Kids? That's a dream if you can barely support yourself.

If you're coming to Portugal with foreign income (2000€ /month tax free) , great, you can live pretty comfortably and get access to certain luxuries (mid-high class)

If you're planning on working in Portugal, getting paid a Portuguese wage, forget it. You'll be depressed in no time.

Tourism only increased our cost of living to a point that it became unbearable to live here.

You may be right. A lot of propaganda for Portugal as being 'The best country in Europe to retire' ! (not mentioning the fine print such as electricity cost or private health care cost or other things)

Thus huge increase in property prices and rental prices for everybody, especially in Lisbon and in the Algarve.

Julia

Well said! We are from USA and we work remotely (ok income). We find Lisbon is expensive for us (rent, utility, transportation, insurance, private medical (mandatory for us), etc... We dine out 2-3 times per month. We plan to move to a small town.