Kuwiaty Women What I am Noticing but why?

i never encountered one

Just saw on the news today 33 Kuwaity Women filing for Divorce they are stating that they and tired of the lying and cheating husbands! Wow its on Yahoo News

they want to import husbands.if you might have herd from a Kuwaiti female politician Salwa Al mutairi

Noooo I didn't hear that whatttt? Why so? What is really going on? But I did read about the lady that was trying get a law passed where men could have sex slaves so it would help cut down on the adultry? Did you read about that?

that is salwa al mutairi..

first it was men have concubines, then its women having foreign sex-slave husbands.

Those are only women trying to get attention, they don't reflect what is really happening in the society.
Yes there is a change in the society and divorce rates are going up mainly because women are financially independent so they can't bear the neglect and insults from men any more. Men can't understand that in the past women were so patient because they need to financially survive, so divorce is happening.
But all what you hear about cheating, buying men and etc. is either odd cases or a try to attract attention. And don't hope too much they will not buy you

Yes but if we look at the news and what is taking place it seems like it is the Women who are up front and are pushing the hardest.. It seem like a woman scorned over time will push back and open her own mind to new ideas? If that makes sense??

I just read the article about Salwa al mutairi. What a bizarre request. Men, across the Arab world, will soon learn that they need to treat their wives better, or divorce rate will continue to rise.

who will benefit form divorce,no one. its just the devils tricks to break families,not joking they are very happy when a break is occurring.

I just read exactly what salwa said, she wants to import muslim men
that tells us that the most twisted lady still thinks that it's inappropriate to marry non muslim, this is related to islam that doesnt recognize such a marriage and any such woman is no longer considered a muslim
So no new ideas are there
@zizo87: We hope that women are treated well every where, divorce rates are higher in the west than any eastern society

Zizo87 wrote:

I just read the article about Salwa al mutairi. What a bizarre request. Men, across the Arab world, will soon learn that they need to treat their wives better, or divorce rate will continue to rise.

I hear you brother....

From_Lebanon wrote:

I just read exactly what salwa said, she wants to import muslim men
that tells us that the most twisted lady still thinks that it's inappropriate to marry non muslim, this is related to islam that doesnt recognize such a marriage and any such woman is no longer considered a muslim
So no new ideas are there
@zizo87: We hope that women are treated well every where, divorce rates are higher in the west than any eastern society

I believe if a man can marry who he wants then the woman who is created from man of his rib should be able to do just the same.If it pleases God for man, than surely it should please God unto his Daughters as well.. There are men who will love them and respect them and encourage them to Islam and no one can tell them that they are no longer Muslim, or Gods child even if she marries a christian the Father is the SAME SAME. I wish my sister well and not confused..

From_Lebanon wrote:

Yes there is a change in the society and divorce rates are going up mainly because women are financially independent so they can't bear the neglect and insults from men any more. Men can't understand that in the past women were so patient because they need to financially survive, so divorce is happening.

I beg to differ FL, u make it sound like it is just the men who bring about divorce, albeit that being true in some cases, it does not necessarily stick as the norm. and i dont agree with your theory of financial independence for women playing a role, nor can u say it is the fact that they are educated more etc.

people are getting married for all the wrong reasons, in this part of the world especially, both men and women are getting married here for the $$$, the grants and loans given by the government when Kuwaitis marry Kuwaitis. the concept of arranged marriages exist. The man is always in the diwaniya (or working), the woman is always shopping (or working), and the rest is history.

this phenomena is not just here, its everywhere where people marry too early or too young or for the wrong reasons.

The law has now permitted women to file for divorce, whereas before it was the man who had to take that initiative, hence the rise in divorce rates. Women have more rights, it has nothing to do with money. How often do you find divorcee's living on their own? They go back to living with their parents.

In Japan for example, a few years ago they drafted a new law that upon divorce, a wife was entitled to half of her husbands pension; so all of the sudden classes starting popping up educating married men on how to treat their wives, there was even a 10-step program, like step one, hold her hand in public etc etc.

so long as we continue to marry for the wrong reasons, divorce rates will always soar.

off the Arab Times:
Husbands, Wives Blame Each Other
KUWAIT CITY, July 5: Attorney Abdullah Al-Shaibani was recently quoted as saying the phenomenon of divorce is increasingly becoming widespread in the Kuwaiti society, reports Al-Seyassah daily.
He added on most occasions trivial issues end up in the couples going separate ways.
Al-Shaibani added many men filed for divorce because they objected to their wives dyeing their hair without their knowledge or because of bad breath.
Al-Shaibani added thirty-three Kuwaiti women filed for divorce after discovering their husbands cheated on them by claiming they were going to Saudi Arabia for Omra but in fact ended up to celebrate New Year in Beirut.

see?

@from_lebonan I agree with you, that the west has a much higher divorce rate than that of the muslim world. However, many women in the muslim world are unable to divorce for various reasons,such as poverty ,family honour, children etc. Sadly in the west some people divorce for very silly reasons, and because divorce is very easy and sometimes more beneficial, financially and socially, it is often the route sought. So divorce rate in the muslim world rate is not driven by how a husband treats his wife but rather by if she can survive on her on.

@Marquis7: It's your opinion and I respect. If men can marry who ever they choose, women should be the same. But this is not how islamic religion or even arabic traditions are.
For my opinion I don't encourage any kind of mixed marriages (from women or men sides, this is only my opinion)

@Legacy: After I read my post again I felt that I'm talking like a rigid feminist old maid while this is not the message that I wanted to share. You are right it's not always the men's fault when it comes to divorce, but I'm still insisting that financial independence drew the patience of women to its lowest levels.
You said that causes of divorce are early marriage and getting married for the wrong reasons. Well this didn't change since old days, what is changed is financial independence. A divorcee will continue living with her parents because we are an eastern society and unmarried individual will live with his/her parent until he/she gets married but this doesn't prevent the financial independence. For instance since old days men are travelling here and their and cheating, women are discovering but they do nothing simply because she thinks shall I return to my father and be a burden on him again or accept my fate and continue with the husband, so she chooses to continue living with the cheater.
While nowadays she thinks I can live by my own, why should I continue?
See?

@Zizo87: divorce here is driven by both husband's treatment and wife ability to survive. It's not like women are all being tortured here and whoever can escape the prison and survive she files for divorce. Your words give that impression which is not true. In every society there are some good and bad people, you can't generalize

Sorry @Marquis7 I drifted the topic from mixed loves and marriages to divorce, it's my fault

You know American woman or divorcing and some for stupid reasons and some not but once we forgot the real reason and the purpose of marriage its to continue Gods creation You noticed He never ask you to stay in your tribe but to only love that person who loves Him and together He will bless you both. I believe in love and it does not have a color or a race because God should be the center of that love because He is that, that is Love. So if we don't take the time to teach our children to be social with each other at some point they will feel that they are missing something or maybe something hidden from them and then they will look for it at some point in there life.. We have to understand no matter what your culture the rest of the world will affect it hopefully more positive then negative. I have a son he is 6 but I am teaching him it is okay to love any woman he wants but she must love God first and it doesn't matter her culture for it is second or 3rd some where on Gods list but know that He is first. So if that seed is planted he or she  will have a new vision.. But I think maybe the Muslim women or coming into a new vision of a type of freedom and Love and they are moving and reshaping the culture themselves and it is happening before our eyes? So it seems the picture is much bigger than what it seems? And forgive me for typing on this black berry cell phone..

From_Lebanon wrote:

@zizo87: We hope that women are treated well every where, divorce rates are higher in the west than any eastern society

This is MOSTLY due to the fact that Western women have a choice and will not be outcasts for getting a divorce.

Also, they still have the chance to remarry and be happy as other western men will not look at her as "unclean" or whatever simply because she is no longer a virgin.

Another point here about the divorces... Most of western society is based on being happy first. Where as eastern society is based more on apperance and the accecptance of the rest of society. As a westerner, I would never look down on someone for making a change (getting divoced, moving, quiting thier job, going against their parents and friends) for the pursuit of happiness. After all... we all (men AND WOMEN) "should" have the right to pursuit of happiness. No?

Just saying...

Divorce and unmarried women is very complicated subject in the Middle East.

actually it's pretty easy to deal with when they only want one thing

thats true.

@Marquis7: Being friendly and open to other cultures doesn't imply that the one should marry them. All over the world when someone wants to get married he/she will agree on the way that they will raise their children. Religion and relation with God is a major part of education, so they should agree on this. I just read in the newspaper that an austrilian couple went to the court because of the name of their 2 years daughter. They couldn't register her because they can't agree on her name. The mother is non-muslim while the father is muslim. Tell me isn't it the biggest mistake that those 2 were initially married, if they can't agree on a name how they will agree on other details of raising their kids.

@Satcomguy: correct me please, are you trying to say that a higher rate of divorce reflects a healthy society? It's the other way around. I didn't say that our society is the best in the world. It's most of the times unfair society with double standards. But the question is: is the western society a better one, I don't think so. When a responsible woman takes the decision of divorce, she doesn't do this because she is perusing happiness, she does this because she wants to end up a misery. I think this is universal because women's nature doesn't like changing while this is an original men's nature. In the western society it's acceptable for an unmarried couple to live together. This is the men's ugliest exploitation of women's need for stability and love.
I'm sorry if this turned out to be a debate between eastern and western societies. Zizo you started this we will kill you

Divorce became more acceptable after the cultural changes of the 1960's. More women were encouraged to enter the workforce, enabling them to earn a living and support themselves. Another important factor was the ability of women to control their reproductive lives with oral contraceptives in the 1960's. Women could control the number of children they would have and avoid bringing children into a bad marriage, thus divorce was easier.

The divorce rate continued to climb in the 70's. In the 1980's there was a divorce boom. Out of 1000 married women, 22.6 ended their marriages. The rate has declined since. 2008 statistics report 16.9 out of 1000 marriages ended in divorce. Just this past year we reached an all time low with 16.4 out of every 1000 women ending their marriages in 2009.

Of those divorcing today, the highest rate falls to couples aged 20 to 24. The next most at risk group are childless couples. Sixty-six percent of couples who have no children have marriages that end in divorce. Couples with children have the lowest divorce rate. Divorce rates for highly educated, more affluent couples are dropping but not for couples that are less educated and in lower socio-economic groups.

Some statisticians believe that the divorce rate is lower because not as many people are getting married. Couples living together, or cohabiting, jumped 13% from 2009 to 2010. Further, people are waiting longer to get married. The average age for matrimony is now 26 for men and 25 for women. The economy also contributes to the decline. Couples are more inclined to stick together when there is a recession. With real estate values at all time lows and job opportunities that are waning, it just makes more financial sense to stay married if possible.

The fact that the population is aging also contributes to the decline. Since divorce rates are higher for couples in their early 20's, it makes sense that if there will be less divorce when a higher percentage of couples are older.

Even though there are sometimes conflicting statistics on divorce rates, most studies do lean toward a slight decline in the number of divorces for 2009 and 2010. Cohabiting, an aging population and the economy seem to be the most influential reasons for the decline. Couples also seem to enter marriage more cautiously and later in life. Hopefully we can continue the trend towards more healthy, long-lasting marriages.

We better not to talk about reasons coz we got many diff. though about it, better to discus solutions from women what they should not do and from men the same , for a better living. at least lest help our self in this small circle of good friends not to face or to minimize any bad chance of divorce in our future.

@ from_lebanon  I was going to reply to Satcomguy, but I knew it will start a debate about west vs east. As someone who grew up in the west but holds both eastern  and western values, this would certainly be a very strange debate for me as I would agree with both parties on some issues.

Killing me for starting the debate? I am proud, it took a whole month of me living in kuwait before someone wanted me dead lol

From_Lebanon wrote:

@Marquis7: Being friendly and open to other cultures doesn't imply that the one should marry them. All over the world when someone wants to get married he/she will agree on the way that they will raise their children. Religion and relation with God is a major part of education, so they should agree on this. I just read in the newspaper that an austrilian couple went to the court because of the name of their 2 years daughter. They couldn't register her because they can't agree on her name. The mother is non-muslim while the father is muslim. Tell me isn't it the biggest mistake that those 2 were initially married, if they can't agree on a name how they will agree on other details of raising their kids.

@Lebanon, you see where America women once was in the 30s to the 60's is where the Eastern women or headed or experiencing today; and it's not the fault of the Western Women or the West and what I mean by that is History. I am only pointing out that the East is evolving and its the Women who are reshaping the East unknowingly and I am not saying that other cultures should Marry but if there hearts lead them to, then culture should not stand in there way but hopefully make there lives better. Now as for the Muslim man and the Australian couple I bet it is more of what the outer families influence is other than there own, and that is what is causing them to be in court, but they will come to there senses and tell there families to stay out of there business. But History is taking place and Women are reshaping how they want to be dealt with, respected, and Loved and they are reaching outside of there culture by saying I have rights to, to love whom I want.

@Satcomguy: correct me please, are you trying to say that a higher rate of divorce reflects a healthy society? It's the other way around. I didn't say that our society is the best in the world. It's most of the times unfair society with double standards. But the question is: is the western society a better one, I don't think so. When a responsible woman takes the decision of divorce, she doesn't do this because she is perusing happiness, she does this because she wants to end up a misery. I think this is universal because women's nature doesn't like changing while this is an original men's nature. In the western society it's acceptable for an unmarried couple to live together. This is the men's ugliest exploitation of women's need for stability and love.
I'm sorry if this turned out to be a debate between eastern and western societies. Zizo you started this we will kill you

From_Lebanon wrote:

@Satcomguy: correct me please, are you trying to say that a higher rate of divorce reflects a healthy society? It's the other way around. I didn't say that our society is the best in the world. It's most of the times unfair society with double standards. But the question is: is the western society a better one, I don't think so. When a responsible woman takes the decision of divorce, she doesn't do this because she is perusing happiness, she does this because she wants to end up a misery. I think this is universal because women's nature doesn't like changing while this is an original men's nature. In the western society it's acceptable for an unmarried couple to live together. This is the men's ugliest exploitation of women's need for stability and love.
I'm sorry if this turned out to be a debate between eastern and western societies. Zizo you started this we will kill you

No, I'm not saying that reflects a healthy society at all. I am saying that reflects a free society and one with "choice" however. (And yes, this is quickly turning into a east vs west debate.)

I too never said that the western society is the best. I never even brought it up. And I never saw the question "Is the western society a better one?" Therefore I wasn't replying to that question. Though I'll take this opotunity now to do so, though only mildly as this could get long.

I don't mind saying that I would rather live in a society where I am free to "mess up" at my own expence that to just have those choices removed. This lack of choice doesn't by any means make the eastern society a better one. I think most will agree there. Choice breeds creativity, thus making the western societies at the forefront of most techs, rights, money trade ect (the list is quite extensive). I've been to 17 countries... I've seen much in the way that things are done differently. Sure, the west has it's issues, but... Well, I think Winston Churchill said it best:
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

Marquis7 wrote:

From_Lebanon wrote:

@Marquis7: Being friendly and open to other cultures doesn't imply that the one should marry them. All over the world when someone wants to get married he/she will agree on the way that they will raise their children. Religion and relation with God is a major part of education, so they should agree on this. I just read in the newspaper that an austrilian couple went to the court because of the name of their 2 years daughter. They couldn't register her because they can't agree on her name. The mother is non-muslim while the father is muslim. Tell me isn't it the biggest mistake that those 2 were initially married, if they can't agree on a name how they will agree on other details of raising their kids.


@Satcomguy: correct me please, are you trying to say that a higher rate of divorce reflects a healthy society? It's the other way around. I didn't say that our society is the best in the world. It's most of the times unfair society with double standards. But the question is: is the western society a better one, I don't think so. When a responsible woman takes the decision of divorce, she doesn't do this because she is perusing happiness, she does this because she wants to end up a misery. I think this is universal because women's nature doesn't like changing while this is an original men's nature. In the western society it's acceptable for an unmarried couple to live together. This is the men's ugliest exploitation of women's need for stability and love.
I'm sorry if this turned out to be a debate between eastern and western societies. Zizo you started this we will kill you

Why just repost someone else's stuff?

Marquis7 wrote:

From_Lebanon wrote:

@Marquis7: Being friendly and open to other cultures doesn't imply that the one should marry them. All over the world when someone wants to get married he/she will agree on the way that they will raise their children. Religion and relation with God is a major part of education, so they should agree on this. I just read in the newspaper that an austrilian couple went to the court because of the name of their 2 years daughter. They couldn't register her because they can't agree on her name. The mother is non-muslim while the father is muslim. Tell me isn't it the biggest mistake that those 2 were initially married, if they can't agree on a name how they will agree on other details of raising their kids.

@Lebanon, you see where America women once was in the 30s to the 60's is where the Eastern women or headed or experiencing today; and it's not the fault of the Western Women or the West and what I mean by that is History. I am only pointing out that the East is evolving and its the Women who are reshaping the East unknowingly and I am not saying that other cultures should Marry but if there hearts lead them to, then culture should not stand in there way but hopefully make there lives better. Now as for the Muslim man and the Australian couple I bet it is more of what the outer families influence is other than there own, and that is what is causing them to be in court, but they will come to there senses and tell there families to stay out of there business. But History is taking place and Women are reshaping how they want to be dealt with, respected, and Loved and they are reaching outside of there culture by saying I have rights to, to love whom I want.

@Satcomguy: correct me please, are you trying to say that a higher rate of divorce reflects a healthy society? It's the other way around. I didn't say that our society is the best in the world. It's most of the times unfair society with double standards. But the question is: is the western society a better one, I don't think so. When a responsible woman takes the decision of divorce, she doesn't do this because she is perusing happiness, she does this because she wants to end up a misery. I think this is universal because women's nature doesn't like changing while this is an original men's nature. In the western society it's acceptable for an unmarried couple to live together. This is the men's ugliest exploitation of women's need for stability and love.
I'm sorry if this turned out to be a debate between eastern and western societies. Zizo you started this we will kill you

@ Satcomguy,
I guess we can say the more Men screw it up from the East to the West the more Women will change it up, and it does not matter where you live, it is the happiness they seek from with in..

love the one you are with and live for the one you love.

i think that pretty much will eliminate the divorce issue.

now back to the original matter @ hand Marquis7..

"we dont know, its a mystery "P"

@ Satcomguy,

I cant say how happy I was to read your post. I agree with you 100%.


As a woman, and it seems like the only woman that has replied to this thread, I can say most of you men are so wrong.


One, one reason women ARE seeking divorces now in the ME  more than before is the fact they are are more indepandant. They are working and not only that their salaries are enough now to support herself and any children she has. Yes, she may go back home to her parents, but before in may cultures she was not wanted. this is becasue she was an extra burden on the family, now she isnt, she may be an embarrasment but she can prvide for herself.
As a woman I can tell you not being a burden on your family is priceless. It means so much to a womans mental and emotional well being. Trust me it can and does give her options and it empowers her to seek divorce when and if the need arises.

Two, The ME is full of traditions many of there are NOT from Islam. Not allowing women to divorce , not allowing women to choose who she will marry, telling men they can ONLY marry women from their own country are all things these countries impose on their people,  but they are not from Islam

Women in the time of the phrophet, PBUH, faught in wars died as mayrters, saught divorces and were given them,   the hadiths clearly says the woman can choose who she will marry. NO where in the Quran does it say a man can only marry from his country. The Quran is clear about who a man can and can not marry but in these MUSLIM coutries this is not the case.

Having these types of restrictions can cause any society to have a high divorce rate. When you restrict who a person can marry then you are asking for trouble.  If you are a man and you fall inlove with a woman and them be told you cant marry her. NOt becasue she didnt fall under the guideline that Allah set but becsue she ws born in another country, its jacked up. As a women the same thing applies, and then many times the women are not given choices, they are married off to men they dont know or like. How do you expect these things to work. Yes, many people have stayed in loveless, abusive, and unhappy marriages but those days are coming to an end.

I am not sure who said the west has a higher divorce rate than the gulf,  I think they need to do some research. Just go a search on google and you will see Saudi has a 50% divorce rate. RAK, in UAE has a 60% marriage failing rate for the first two years of marriage. The list goes on. Yes, the west has had a high divorce rate LONGER than the ME but they are catching up quickly.

Three. this thing of West VS East is just crazy. Each society has its on high points and low points. They are equal in curruption and bad behavious byt its people. IMO, no place is better than the other having lived in both.

As a woman I have NEVER experience a man try to BUY me for sex in the US. I am respected for being covered not lookat as a street walker. In the states no woman would be looked at as a hooker if she wears and abayah, hijab and niqab, however this has happened to me several times in Egypt and  Kuwait .

What Satcomguy, said and I am paraphraseing, women lowed themselves when they lowered their standards by sleeping with men and living with them before marriage.
This is the root of the western families problem. The women are cheating themselves out of many things by lowering their standers and their worth.
In the east the womens value is lowered by tradition. In many ways she has no voice, no room for expression and her happiness is not important.

He also made a great point about the west our life is more about  being Happy than tradition or saving your families name.
As an American born and raised Muslim, I have not had to accept many of the things my sisters born in Muslim countries have to endure. I have had many women in UAE and Doha tell me they do things only out of tradition and not to hurt their families name.

Mt question is why? If our purpose in life is to serve nd worship Allah then why all this other stuff? We as an Ummah have fallen so far from the mark its not even funny. We can be happy and still live a full life WITHIN  the boundaries of Islam. Nowhere in the quran or hadiths does it say people have to be miserable to go to jennah.

So if these owmen choose divorce, trust me its for good reason. Women are not made like men. We want the company of one man. what you see in the west is abnormal and it comes from being brainwashed into thinking it liberates them and it gives them freedom, when in fact it is the opposite. This is the opposite of a man,  a man can love and enjoy the company of several women. .  This si why you see in the west to many men cheat, they have no option. Yes, having more than one wife is a choice and many men would not choose it but for the men that NEED more than one wife, or that man that had a wife and 2 girlfriends on the side it would make it easier just to be married to all of them, at least their is protection for everyone.
This is how allah made us. BUT if you do things to oppress and surpress the emotional well being of a person or a group of people it will one day back fire. this IMO, is what is happeneing now

Oh well that just my 2cents......

@Nmuhammad
A good read, thanks for sharing.

I don't mind the debate as long as we can all be friendly and not make it an agument.

Some ‘brides of the Red Sea' beating up hubbies
Jul 17, 2011 at 21:05
Views (11189) |   | 5   |   |   |
               

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By Arab News
JEDDAH: According to Jeddah police reports, on an average, 145 wives beat their husbands in a month, constituting 20 percent of the annual rates of domestic violence.

Wives only go for physical violence when they reach a state of explosion and can no longer control themselves, said Fathiyyah Al-Qurashi, member of the Saudi Human Rights Commission.

She was speaking to Arab News about reports concerning the growing number of wives beating husbands.

Al-Qurashi rejected violence in all its forms — from men and women alike — but said women had few means to express their anger, including violence.

She called for the establishment of more family counseling centers and social institutions to deal with this trend. “We should give more attention to this problem before it snowballs,” she added.

Head of the Reconciliation Department at the General Court in Makkah Mokhtar Muhammad Mawloud, who is a family counselor, recalled that his department had settled several disputes between husbands and wives, and cited two examples in which reconciliation was reached.

In the first example, the wife used to beat him regularly. He said the husband had been keeping quiet, but he complained against his wife when she beat him up in the presence of his in-laws.

“All those years I had been silent. I never complained. But it was too much for me when my wife beat me in front of my in-laws,” the husband said in his complaint to the court.

Mawloud also said another wife beat her husband brutally because he had waken her up for Fajr (early morning) prayer. “All I did was wake her out of her deep sleep for Fajr prayer. She woke up very angry and immediately started beating me,” he complained to the court. Mawloud said these two cases had ended in reconciliation.

spankings by wives,lolz

ace117 wrote:

spankings by wives,lolz

Haha I know right Omg like I said women will unknowing change and reshape culture..
Listen I received a call from an old friend, a Kuwaity Woman smart bright and intelligent and beautiful I just might add. I met her last year  she just called me out of the blue. She and her husband has not spoken in seven months she told me after she forgave him for walking in on him in a sexual act! Not wanting to bare the shame she stayed; and now thinking a new child would change things it did not,so what will she do now? Stay in misery or live in shame or live a secret life? Just something I notice just today..

And this is true too.. No lie..

Marquis7 wrote:

Listen I received a call from an old friend, a Kuwaity Woman smart bright and intelligent and beautiful I just might add. I met her last year  she just called me out of the blue. She and her husband has not spoken in seven months she told me after she forgave him for walking in on him in a sexual act! Not wanting to bare the shame she stayed; and now thinking a new child would change things it did not,so what will she do now? Stay in misery or live in shame or live a secret life? Just something I notice just today..

And this is true too.. No lie..

This only gives validity to what I was saying about choice...

Guys believe me if you keep talking about this
subject (marriage/divorce) you will never finish.

agree with Moo
it will never over..

Moo wrote:

Guys believe me if you keep talking about this
subject (marriage/divorce) you will never finish.

Mooo

I dont think its about a win or loose we are just turning the light on to see what may be going on inside this quite kept culture and where or why this coming about from with-in them understand? It all goes around but it does have a meaning and it will lead to a change some where.

@Marquis: I totally agree with your idea about women's development in this region but tell me dear is sleeping with drivers and cheating the proof of this development? actually is this love or lust? Do any of these women accept to marry their servants? of course no. Then your idea about love changing the world is totally wrong. Because this is not love and it's degrading the society not developing it!!
If you want to talk about development talk about the muslim and arabic women who are travelling away from their families to gain career and academic advancement, talk about women who shoulder the responsibilities of their families when the father is away, don't talk about filthy low women.

@Scotguy: If you read the history you will know that every powerful civilization rises and then falls, I'm not saying this because I'm ahmadi najad carrying the slogan of "USA the greatest devil will be down", I'm saying this because this is a simple truth. The degradation of the civilizarion starts from a corrupted society, when every individual thinks that he is created to persue happiness. While he is created to perform his duty.
You know the Islamic civilization was once the greatest just like the west nowadays, they had lots of scientists and creative men although their ruler always claimed that he is a divine ruler assigned by god, so tell me do you still think that more options and democracy equals creativity and success