Only 5 days quarantine entering VN?

danrodri wrote:

I heard from a friend that the VN gov has reduced quarantine length from 14 to just 5 days. Im entering next saturday, so that would be awesome for me. Anyone has more info on this?

Perhaps your friend is confusing Vietnam with Thailand?

I read that under certain specific circumstances, people from a few nations will be able to have a shorter quarantine there.

Probably confused with this article: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=905849

"People who are tested negative for the coronavirus twice can leave the camp after five days and remain isolated at other facilities like home, workplace or hotels to finish the 14-day protocol."

5 days in camp, but after go to a quarantine hotel.

BigTraveler wrote:

Probably confused with this article: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=905849

"People who are tested negative for the coronavirus twice can leave the camp after five days and remain isolated at other facilities like home, workplace or hotels to finish the 14-day protocol."

5 days in camp, but after go to a quarantine hotel.

That link is a loop-back to this thread

I believe someone has posted on here.... it's true about 5 days quarantine for foreign experts, investors, managers, and diplomats if you enter the country for less than 14 days. However, you must comply with all other health measures and must follow your scheduled itinerary.

https://www.vietnam-briefing.com/news/v … ates.html/

pppham40 wrote:

I believe someone has posted on here.... it's true about 5 days quarantine for foreign experts, investors, managers, and diplomats if you enter the country for less than 14 days. However, you must comply with all other health measures and must follow your scheduled itinerary.

https://www.vietnam-briefing.com/news/v … ates.html/

Thank you for all your replies. I was not aware Thailand was doing something alike, honestly. Little chance I confused it with that country. To my understanding the information comes directly from VN newspapers.

Of course I meant only for those immigrants complying with ALL the regulations and show NO Covid) of course!!).
I don't mean whether illegal immigrants have to do 5 days instead of 14 quarantine, obviously. And I don't mean if you show positive to Covid. OMG...if you show positive in Covid they probably put you in jail for 1 year for attempted murder or something. But that is probably stuff for another threat.

My question was simply: anyone knows if the 5 day quarantine is a fact? (given you are allowed to enter, you have flight ticket, you show all tests negative, you have a valid entry visa, you have a valid passport, you have bla bla bla bla all complying of course)

So for >14 days stay:
See link below for latest directive from VN health department.   Thought, it is in vn but with google translate you will get the idea. 
https://ncov.moh.gov.vn/web/guest/-/6847912-15
     Quick summary:  if after six days in quarantine and you tested negative again (2nd time), you can move to self quarantine granted all requirements/regulations must be followed.   

So for <14 days stay: 
Quarantine measures waived for short business trips
On August 31, the Ministry of Health issued Official Dispatch No 4674/BYT-MT waiving the mandatory 14-day quarantine for foreign experts, investors, managers, and diplomats if they enter Vietnam for less than 14 days. If after 14 days they wish to stay in Vietnam, they can do so without quarantining, provided they test negative for the virus.

However, they must comply with all other health measures, which include:

Remain at designated accommodation and follow the scheduled itinerary of the business trip;
Install and use the Bluezone contract tracing app during their stay in Vietnam; and
Wear face masks and maintain personal hygiene.

danrodri, please keep us posted with your experience. 

Thank you sir!

pppham40 wrote:

So for >14 days stay:
See link below for latest directive from VN health department.   Thought, it is in vn but with google translate you will get the idea. 
https://ncov.moh.gov.vn/web/guest/-/6847912-15
     Quick summary:  if after six days in quarantine and you tested negative again (2nd time), you can move to self quarantine granted all requirements/regulations must be followed.   

So for <14 days stay: 
Quarantine measures waived for short business trips
On August 31, the Ministry of Health issued Official Dispatch No 4674/BYT-MT waiving the mandatory 14-day quarantine for foreign experts, investors, managers, and diplomats if they enter Vietnam for less than 14 days. If after 14 days they wish to stay in Vietnam, they can do so without quarantining, provided they test negative for the virus.

However, they must comply with all other health measures, which include:

Remain at designated accommodation and follow the scheduled itinerary of the business trip;
Install and use the Bluezone contract tracing app during their stay in Vietnam; and
Wear face masks and maintain personal hygiene.

danrodri, please keep us posted with your experience. 

Thank you sir!

Thxs pppham40 for the official source. I sent the link to my agent. She is trying to find out more about it from official sources. Would be awesome, if this is true. I would love to exit the "golden hotel cage" as quick as possible. It really will have that prison feel, being confined to a cell of 18m2 for two full weeks, no visitors allowed, no exercise possibilities (unless you run around your bed), no fresh air as hotels often have permanently closed windows. I wonder if staff will lock you up in the room, to avoid that you walk around the hallway at night...and, God forbid, possibly chat with some fellow "inmates".  Honestly, having seen a documentary on prisons...I would swap my 2 weeks in 4star hotel quarantine immediately for 2 weeks in a Norwegian prison with all the perks and activities those guys have up there. But as its the only way to get into VN, so be it. Let's suck it up. That's what I deserve for being an expert
Will let you know first hand how it goes. Leaving this Saturday...

Hi Danrodri,  which airport HCM or HAN?  I am arriving in HAN and my company has arranged with  InterContinental Westlake Hanoi for my quarantine.   My HR department confirmed the 6 days rules.  My sister in VN can attest for what you have mentioned above if and only if you are using what so call quarantine requirements for local people or Vietnamese citizen (Viet Kieu) (if this is applicable for foreigners).  I hope you have the option to stay at the designated hotels for the foreigners.   Regardless, 14 days in jail (I meant hotel) is really suck in A##!

pppham40 wrote:

Hi Danrodri,  which airport HCM or HAN?  I am arriving in HAN and my company has arranged with  InterContinental Westlake Hanoi for my quarantine.   My HR department confirmed the 6 days rules.  My sister in VN can attest for what you have mentioned above if and only if you are using what so call quarantine requirements for local people or Vietnamese citizen (Viet Kieu) (if this is applicable for foreigners).  I hope you have the option to stay at the designated hotels for the foreigners.   Regardless, 14 days in jail (I meant hotel) is really suck in A##!

Arriving in HCMC and staying at Ibis airport. My agent got mixed reply. Wasn´t clear to me if they just want to follow up with the 14 days to not upset travel agency and hotel (because of loss of income) or genuinely its not allowed. But what you say seems to me that locals are eligible for the 6 days as they are supposed to have a home in VN while foreigners are not. Which would make "half-sense" in my opinion. Lucky you, to be with family, walk around the house, and enjoy the food you like after only 6 days quarantine. Don't sneak out though...although we have been tested three or more times always negative, we want to behave responsibly

Thanks Danrodri.  Actually, my family is in HCMC.   Btw, if you haven't stay there before, their rooms is very small (smaller than typical hotel room in Europe).  I will be traveling to HCMC on the weekend once the country return to normalcy.  Perhaps we can have a few good beers (I know many good microbrewery)
Good luck and be safe.

Definitely will need some beers to wash away 2 weeks of quarantine in my 18m2 golden cage. Yeah...I'm aware will be a small cage.

pppham40 wrote:

...Actually, my family is in HCMC.   Btw, if you haven't stay there before, their rooms is very small (smaller than typical hotel room in Europe)...

I wasn't sure if you were referring to his specific hotel or to the city overall.

My experience with six different hotels in district 1 is that they do tend to run pretty small.

Out in District 7 my room was a bit larger.

Best of all so far has been the historic Hotel Continental Saigon.

I was amazed at the roominess of my lodgings there.

"Those testing positive for the novel coronavirus will be admitted to medical centers for treatment; while those reporting negative results twice can switch from centralized quarantine camps to isolation at home or their place of work or a hotel until they complete the 14-day quarantine under supervision of local authorities."

This is the article about the first commercial flight allowed in.

That paragraph makes it sound as if everybody goes into a centralized isolation facility and then the 5-day magic number is an opportunity to move out of there to one of the other choices, including a hotel.

So if that's correct, nobody gets to go directly to a hotel...

Over 100 arrive in Vietnam on first commercial flight in six months - Vietnam Express

Thanks again for sharing.  iBis is what referred to.  Again, you get what you pay for and depends on hotel chains!  As an elite member of Marriot (e.g. Sheraton, Renaissance, Le Meridien) I have stay from North to South of VN...they are very roomy.   

As I mentioned above (#7) under the new regulations there are 2 cases:  >14 days and <14 days (strictly for business owner,  foreign experts, investors, managers, and diplomats...... NO TOURIST) the rules for quarantine requirements are difference. 

I have talked to my local HR, in the nutshell, you (mainly, your local office/agent/mfg) have a choice to register where you want to stay for your quarantine i.e  centralized quarantine camps vs hotels depends on your stay.   

Again, you get what you pay for (you or your company).  For example, centralized quarantine camps will cost you 120k  VND vs hotel such as iBis @ $120 or Sheraton is @ $290 per day.  So, use your imagination.

As promised here a bit of an update on my quarantine experience. After arrival and luggage pick up I was escorted out through a non-regular exit from the airport directly to a bus parking. I entered the bus and was driven to the hotel (IBIS, in my case). My luggage was sprayed (first time). At arrival the hotel hall is all covered by plastic. My luggage was sprayed again. The staff cannot help or touch your luggage, I got a cart to push my luggage to my room. Again, hallway of the room all layed out with plastic. I was then put in my room. I am not allowed to exit the room. Food is put on a chair next to my room all in disposable tuppers. I put the tuppers out on the same chair afterwards and its being disposed as chemical waste. Nothing in my room can exit the room except as chemical waste. So, I use the cuttlery and the staff gave me dish washer liquid so that I can wash my cuttlery myself. Nobody will ever clean the room. They will put fresh linen half way the quarantine so I can change it myself if I want to. Are my old linens then chemical waste? I doubt so. When it comes to save some bucks, the logic is different Ian, the staff guy responsable for my floor is kind and helpful and brings the food but he is always dressed in full chemical suit. As was the rest of the staff of the hotel and even immigration officers at the airport. Today they took the second covid test of me. No doubt its going to be negative....again. Of course. Anyways.
Today one of my friends told me "Hey, sounds like a prison" THANK YOU! At least one of my friends noticed. Quarantine is no fun, unless you are a weirdo that loves being isolated from all people and all the world. Or you just came from working 60h a week for the past year and finally get a break. Both are not my case, luckily...so, for me, quarantine...no fun

I've just finished my 14 day quarantine at a hotel in Hanoi. Danrodri's experience is very similar to mine. From the airport you are taken out the side door by staff in full protective suits, and then you load your luggage in to a minivan. You are then taken to a side entrance at the hotel and whisked to your room.

Once in the room, food is delivered to your room on plastic plates and left on a chair outside your room. Rubbish has to be sent out in a sealed plastic bag with a biological waste sign on it. Twice a day medical staff in full suits come to check your temperature. On request staff will bring fresh linen and cleaning products to clean your room.

Its inevitably not a particularly fun experience, but the medical personnel and hotel staff were very professional and as helpful as possible.

Now I can't wait to go for a beer....

Danrodri and Matthanoi, much appreciated for the update.  Members like both of you that makes this forum for sharing and learning from each others in a foreign place is priceless.  Thus far, my trip has not been canceled (yet).  I just hope the govt. might loosen the requirements by the time I am getting there i.e. self quarantine.  Danrodri, if all possible can you ask the med. staff for the 2nd test negative after six days in quarantine thus move to self quarantine if this is a true regulations? 

Matthanoi, I will take you up on the drink a beer after my quarantine.

pppham40 wrote:

Danrodri and Matthanoi, much appreciated for the update.  Members like both of you that makes this forum for sharing and learning from each others in a foreign place is priceless.  Thus far, my trip has not been canceled (yet).  I just hope the govt. might loosen the requirements by the time I am getting there i.e. self quarantine.  Danrodri, if all possible can you ask the med. staff for the 2nd test negative after six days in quarantine thus move to self quarantine if this is a true regulations? 

Matthanoi, I will take you up on the drink a beer after my quarantine.

Hi pppham40, as long as covid-wise the situation in VN stays stable, there should be no issue for you in leaving after 6 days. Honestly, I have been thinking about it and, though it's quite depressing to stay in one single room for so long (I think I have never stayed in one room for more than 24h in my past ever), as I am new to VN, renting Airbnb or alike is a bad choice for me. How should I survive the last 8 days of quarantine without having anyone to get me food and water? I cant go out to buy. And I don't have friends yet who could go shopping for me. So, unfortunately, I think my best option is to suck it up and stay in this hotel for the full quarantine. If you have friends/family, then get the hell out of the hotel as soon as you can Which should be after 6 days.

danrodri wrote:

As promised here a bit of an update on my quarantine experience. After arrival and luggage pick up I was escorted out through a non-regular exit from the airport directly to a bus parking. I entered the bus and was driven to the hotel (IBIS, in my case). My luggage was sprayed (first time). At arrival the hotel hall is all covered by plastic. My luggage was sprayed again. The staff cannot help or touch your luggage, I got a cart to push my luggage to my room. Again, hallway of the room all layed out with plastic. I was then put in my room. I am not allowed to exit the room. Food is put on a chair next to my room all in disposable tuppers. I put the tuppers out on the same chair afterwards and its being disposed as chemical waste. Nothing in my room can exit the room except as chemical waste. So, I use the cuttlery and the staff gave me dish washer liquid so that I can wash my cuttlery myself. Nobody will ever clean the room. They will put fresh linen half way the quarantine so I can change it myself if I want to. Are my old linens then chemical waste? I doubt so. When it comes to save some bucks, the logic is different Ian, the staff guy responsable for my floor is kind and helpful and brings the food but he is always dressed in full chemical suit. As was the rest of the staff of the hotel and even immigration officers at the airport. Today they took the second covid test of me. No doubt its going to be negative....again. Of course. Anyways.
Today one of my friends told me "Hey, sounds like a prison" THANK YOU! At least one of my friends noticed. Quarantine is no fun, unless you are a weirdo that loves being isolated from all people and all the world. Or you just came from working 60h a week for the past year and finally get a break. Both are not my case, luckily...so, for me, quarantine...no fun

Wow, great, specific, and actually useful info (You too Danrodi) . I wish all posts were like that here. Thank you.

Are all the testimonials here from experts from Europe?
You succeeded to get a flight from Europe? from which country?
Thanks!

I am from the US.  I supposed to leave tomorrow US to Doha then to Hanoi... my flights canceled again today.   The next one I see from 5 search engines i.e google flight, Skyscanner, kayak, JustFly etc. is Oct 12.   

Danrodry, which route did you take?  Can you share with us?

Thanks,

BigTraveler wrote:

Are all the testimonials here from experts from Europe?
You succeeded to get a flight from Europe? from which country?
Thanks!

Hi, I am an "expert" from Europe, yes, but I was living and working in Malaysia previously. Hence, the flight I took came from Kuala Lumpur, not Europe.

How am I doing: I'm ok is my standard answer if anyone asks me. Honestly though, I'm not doing ok. This is all the opposite of enjoyable. The only face-to-mask human contact I have is Anh (I thought his name was Ian....but, oh well,  need to improve my Vietnamese I guess), who comes for temperature check twice a day and knocks on my door three times a day leaving a bag of disposable tuppers with...more or less ok food.
What do I do to keep sharp: I have several hints that might be useful for ppl doing this after me.

Exercising: I feel its good for me to do daily 30min of exercising just to keep the body moving, sweat a bit and have something. How to do?
1. Bring along a USB.
2. Find a software that enables you to download youtube videos.
3. Find suitable youtube videos that allow exercising in small spaces and download it on your USB
4. Check the hotel TV on the back (unhook if necessary) and plug your USB in. 99% of modern TVs have USB port.
5. Go to "source" on the TV remote and look for your USB and exercise ONCE EVERY DAY!

Last tip: this one is up to you, but as you wont be able to wash any cloths, I am now doing exercising with my tennis shoes, socks and...underpants only. No need to sweat out one shirt every day and a pair of shorts. You probably dont have 14 pairs of shorts anyways. So, save them and go shower right after. You are in quarantine...no one will be foolish enough to jump into your room and see your sexy exercising anyways

Food:
The menu is full of sugar, fat and carbs. Unless you are a skinny dude/lady who can gulp tons of food without gaining one gram, avoid all carbs (no rice, no pasta, no bread) and go for veggie, salad, fruit and meat. I have been doing this for the past 5-6 days and lost 1kg and I feel good what food intake concerns. You might want to tell the hotel beforehand that wheat is not advisable for your health condition (yeah...saying you are gluten allergic would do the trick, I just dont want to lie in my case, as due to my overweight, wheat products are not a good idea though im not allergic). Stating this helps when the options are either Penne or noodles (OMG!).

Language:
good opportunity to consistently learn the language you are going to. Duolingo is a common app that offers Vietnamese. I'm learning some funny things like Condom dom....(serious? firefly?). Anyways, there are probably other apps out there. Just pick one and do daily language training. It helps the mind and gives you one additional daily routine which is nice to have.

Entertainment:
good opportunity to catch up with current movies. Take evening times for movie time. Actually, I use torrent ( y t s . m x )...not sure if Im allowed to share this site....to download newest movies, copy it on the USB (see previous "trick") and enjoy it from the bed on the large TV instead of my tiny laptop.
Sure, cable TV is available if you prefer the pre 2010 movies.

Personal Hygiene:
As we have no interaction with anyone, its easy to forget about shaving, showering, and brushing teeth. Want to try your sexy beard? Be my guest. If not, try to shave every 2-3 days and shower every day (especially after workout, you pig! And of course your teeth will appreciate if you spare 10 min of your excess time to them as well. Healthy body keeps the mind healthy too.


DISTURBING fact I just found out. So, I arrived on Saturday the 26.09, meaning that 14 days later is the saturday 10th October. A more "relaxed" reading could even claim that the 14 days are over on the 9th, considering the arrival and exit as "days". I would be very happy to be released on the 9th October, and would find it fair if it is the 10th October. But now the hotel was telling me that my quarantine ends on the ..... 11 October!!!! Now, you guys enjoying freedom out there might find my comment annoying and excessive. But one day more of prison is one day more of prison.

Wish you all the best guys and ladies.

I travelled on Emirates via Dubai. From what I understand, they have a weekly flight on Saturday from Dubai to Hanoi. I could not book this direct with Emirates but went through an agency in Vietnam instead. You need to have all your paperwork (visa and quarantine contract) prepared in advance, and then you need to provide a certificate that you do not have corona virus 48 hours before the flight.

There are regular commercial flights from Seoul to Vietnam now, but the rules for changing flights in Seoul seem quite unclear.

Thanks for all the tips.  Not sure if I am ready for 14 days of prison,  I am just  hoping to get the booking and get to my factory soon.

Matthanoi, thanks for the follow up.  My company has prepared all the requirements that you mentioned... the only dang thing is the cancelation few days before my departure mainly from the six country that VN has allowed For international flights due to operational reason.

https://file-au.clickdimensions.com/dez … 0d3a0859e5

There are daily flights from US to six airports/countries.  I am tempted to get that leg and then transit from their to VN.  However, flight is very limited and the earliest available flights is 10/22.   I just need to get to their website and do some reading.

danrodri wrote:

Language:
good opportunity to consistently learn the language you are going to. Duolingo is a common app that offers Vietnamese. I'm learning some funny things like Condom dom....(serious? firefly?).

No, it's not condom dom.      It's con đom đóm (3 words).  Con is the article to precede the name of an animal though it's often omitted in daily use. 

- Con gì vậy? (What is that insect?)
- Đom đóm. (Firefly).

Đom rhymes with bomb.  Đóm is đom with high rising tone.

The flight was definitely the hardest part for me. I got the visa in July and had two flights cancelled before finally flying in September. The key for me was using a local agent in Vietnam who my office manager managed to find.

There has been a lot of talk about those 6 countries, but as far as I am aware, flights have only actually been scheduled via Seoul. I looked at transfers in each of these countries, and only Tokyo and Seoul really seemed even slightly viable, though information was really patchy even then.

I eventually got in by a different method. A few airlines are allowed to operate passenger flights out of Vietnam, but in order to do that they have to fly the plane over, which they usually do as a cargo-only flight to try and recoup some costs. It seems to be possible for them to get permission to fly a limited number of passengers on those cargo flights, and a Vietnamese agent managed to get me a ticket. The price was high but not ridiculously high (two or three times the usual one way cost). The agent said that Emirates and Singapore Airlines were operating on this basis, but Emirates were much less likely to cancel for some reason.

The other route in is Vietnamese government evacuation flights, but unless you are Vietnamese it seems almost impossible to get on one of these flights.

All that information may be out of date now (I flew three weeks ago and things are changing fast). I hope its helpful.

Again, thanks for the details Matthanoi.  This is the 6 times flights has been canceled on me.  After some searching, TPE is cleared for transit within 8 hrs, NRT and ICN is not very clear with transiting.  I have tried all last night from US to TPE to NRT to ICN as one leg there are many flights even for tomorrow (US time).  Just as you stated, from TPE/NRT/ICN etc... to HAN is very limited.  Cost is not an option (well, that is what my boss told me) for me.  Do you have time to help?  Let say I am leaving 10/3 or 10/4 from US to any of the airports mentioned above, could you agent help to get me a flight to HAN? 

Much appreciate in advance.

Hello Danrodri/Matthanoi, how are you guys hanging?  What is the condition on the ground today?  Anyone with new news on 5 days quarantine?

And NO.... I am still looking for my flights without any successes e.g. my Oct 1st was canceled 2 days before my departure.

pppham40 wrote:

Hello Danrodri/Matthanoi, how are you guys hanging?  What is the condition on the ground today?  Anyone with new news on 5 days quarantine?

And NO.... I am still looking for my flights without any successes e.g. my Oct 1st was canceled 2 days before my departure.

Hi pppham40,
well...for me its really the 15 days in the hotel. Now half way through. Still no fun but oh well. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
I asked about the 6 days but the only guy who is the only guy I meet regularly has no clue. Anyhow, the staff needs to do the 2nd Covid test being in quarantine and if it comes negative then, apparently, one can self-quarantine. For now, they haven't done my 2nd testing, so I would anyways not be able to leave for now even if I wanted.
Hope you find a flight soon.
Regards

Thanks Danrodri.   Hang in there!  Also, I am hoping I can get the ticket, however, with self-transfer for most of the available tickets from now till mid Nov (when more airlines/country will open up) is really make make me nervous along with this dreadful quad. requirements.  Please keep all of us with any good news.....

Best of luck with your speedy quarantine. 

PS. first round on me if I ever get to HCMC!

Will remember the first round pppham40
Anyhow, if you make it here, and if you don't have anyone to bring you stuff to the hotel, to make the stay a bit more comfortable, I can hopefully come and bring.
For example I was needing a SIM card with data because the wifi of the hotel sucks and for online conference meetings, which I am having regularly, its not practical.
Regards

Your supports and the Expat attitudes is well noted.  I am thankful to my local HR for their thoughtfulness and supports.  they have the hotel staff stand by at custom to aid me with entry process: the SIM card, food due to my diet, and especially the local beers that I love.  Thanks again for your offering and I will do the same once I get in the country if anything that I can assist/support you.  Remember, I do have family in HCMC.  My sister and one of my nephew is fluent in English, I can ask them to help if you need some assistant.

To get into Thailand is a nightmares right now......the process is so complicated no businessmen will go thru it........vietnam looks like a piece of cake right now!!!!

SergGugu wrote:

To get into Thailand is a nightmares right now......the process is so complicated no businessmen will go thru it........vietnam looks like a piece of cake right now!!!!

Interesting. My friend and his Thai wife just moved from the US to Thailand last week and other than needing a negative covid test 72 hours before the flight he said it was easy.

Thanks SergGugu.   Here is the latest flights schedule and destination/number of seats/policy to enter VN (yes, I have validate the info below with multiple sources and local UBND along with CAA):

[link under review] … 147518.jpg

[link under review] … 246149.htm

Basically, only 6 countries VN opened for flight as of 9/15, number of flights into SGN and HAN, seats/flights, and for those outside of the approved six country.

My biggest issue right now is try to figure out which of these six countries will allow self-transfer and getting on the flights from these six countries to SGN or HAN.  If anyone has any news or reliable source in the recent days please share with the rest of experts trying to get in VN during this abnormal time is greatly appreciated.

SteinNebraska wrote:

Interesting. My friend and his Thai wife just moved from the US to Thailand last week and other than needing a negative covid test 72 hours before the flight he said it was easy.

Perhaps because he's married to a Thai and moved there to live permanently, unlike other travellers who need visa.

Ciambella wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

Interesting. My friend and his Thai wife just moved from the US to Thailand last week and other than needing a negative covid test 72 hours before the flight he said it was easy.

Perhaps because he's married to a Thai and moved there to live permanently, unlike other travellers who need visa.

Maybe this is the case.  I don't know if they have similar visa requirements or the equivalent of a VEC for spouses of citizens like Vietnam has.