First Covid-19 Death in Vietnam

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

I'm not going to quote any one particular person here, but the idea of starting a business in "nursing homes" for foreigners in Vietnam has got to be one of the craziest ideas I've ever heard.

Nursing homes are developing in Vietnam for citizens of Vietnam out of NECESSITY for Vietnamese CITIZENS.

Now picture the entrepreneurial person who approaches the government and says that businesses should be allowed to bring the  infirm elderly from other nations into Vietnam.

We are already seeing neighboring countries drastically increase the requirement for insurance deposits when new travellers arrive who are not even elderly or infirm.

Now you were talking about importing a whole new section of the population that has nowhere to go but down when it comes to the quality of their health.

Remember that most nursing homes in the world are medical facilities to some degree, often designated as "skilled nursing facilities" or SNFs.

They are custodial facilities where people are given basic assistance with activities of daily living including hygeine and medications and meals and housekeeping and help with their wheelchairs, PLUS healthcare for chronic and stable conditions such as long-term postoperative wound care, physical and occupational therapy, MEMORY care, urinary catheter care and toilet functions.

But people only stay in those facilities as long as their health remains "stable".

There are leaders in this government who understand actuarial numbers as well as any insurance executive.

They know that the odds are that these elderly and infirm people are going to become HOSPITAL patients very quickly, and need to at least temporarily be moved out of their status as custodial residents for ACUTE CARE when they develop heart and lung and gastrointestinal and neurological and circulatory and endocrine and EENT and Integumentary and genitourinary and musculoskeletal problems that can no longer be managed in a Skilled Nursing Facility... because that's what happens to people in skilled nursing facilities on a far-too regular basis.

And the owner operators of skilled nursing facilities are responsible for the transportation of their residents to and from acute care facilities (sometimes clinics, usually hospitals).

If you are living in a hotel or an apartment by yourself now, congratulations you are now in an INDEPENDENT living facility, especially if it provides an option for breakfast in the morning and laundry service and the other options usually available in a "serviced apartment".

If you are hiring a housekeeper and a cook and a regular massage therapist then you are now in effect living in an ASSISTED living facility, especially if you're getting some help with hygiene or dressing or managing other simple tasks, or if your "girlfriend" helps you.

Do not fool yourself.

If you could construct a true Nursing Home in Vietnam to the standards of Western care, the cost would be prohibitive for foreigners,  especially when considering how the government would become involved in such an enterprise.

Better to keep your mouth shut, don't tell a lot of people about your personal health problems, and find one or two trustworthy Vietnamese people to provide domestic help for you.

Dont often agree with you but gotta say......well said,

when I first read it I thought is this guy serious  & then just took it as a bit of tongue in cheek fun.

Like I said previously, the mind boggles thinking of bus loads of of old Western geriatrics waiting to cross no mans land into Cambodia & back every month for their stamps. Bet a few would not even make it back.

If there was cash to made from it the Thais would have given it a go long ago I think.

SteinNebraska wrote:

Don't worry, OB, we are just talking for the sake of talking here.  I don't think any of us are serious aout going out and building a facility.

Yeah, I get that.

But I'm just making sure people understand that the term "nursing home" is too often misused.

Somebody could probably make a good living running a place as an Assisted Living Facility:

The care there would stop short of medical care.

Just have a serviced apartment that offers daily housekeeping, cooking, laundry, transportation...

Oh wait.

That's called a "full service hotel"...

Then add personal assistants (aides) to provide help with eating and hygiene and dressing and secretarial activities and even physical therapy.

I mean if you're good at arranging all of that so it's available for people, there's going to be some sort of a market.

I basically created that situation for myself down in Vũng Tàu, having a physical therapist come and wake me up at 4 a.m. and also get my morning tea ready for me before pushing me out the door for my morning walk at 5:30 AM.

Then the second person did my shopping in the afternoon and housekeeping and laundry and cooked my dinner for me at night.

Total salaries were initially ₫450,000 per day, though I eventually raised them to ₫580,000

I can hear somebody saying I was spending way too much money, but I can assure you this physical therapist is as good as any I've ever worked with in major hospitals.

So you have a full-service hotel and the hotel gets involved in procuring the personal assistants for their guests, based on the individual needs of each guest.

Assisted living, not a nursing home.

Onto serious note ... I do think it would be a great idea to explore.  It wouldn't be easy but hay if it were easy then it would probably not worth the effort.  Unfortunately, have had personal experiences In dealing with both public and private facilities in the States with aging parent not too long ago.

SteinNebraska wrote:

THIGV wrote:

Taking care of the elderly is 24/7/365.  In that respect, maybe the only occupation worse is milking dairy cows.

That would be one of the benefits to doing it here.  A huge amount of the cost in the US is obviously labor to cover that 24/7/365.  Much lower cost to do that here with no reduction - and I suspect an increase in - the standard of care.  And with the generally more positive view of elders here compared to the US it could work.

I posted once that the Vietnamese custom of relatives providing services for patients was admirable but could be problematic in the age of COVID-19.  It seems that is becoming true.  Not all, but a number of the recent patients seem to have contracted the virus while visiting relatives who were hospitalized for other reasons.  Danang patients  Maybe it is time for the hospitals to stop all visitations for a while, not just for COVID-19 but for all patients.

SongwriterUK wrote:

5 Dead now. Nuts.

Don't worry the numbers will soon escalate into hundreds and thousands. The China virus spares no one I assure you.

I think part.of the problem is that some people here think they are exempt or immune.

We are back to mask must be worn in public areas of the building here, still see many vietnamese residents who won't or don't wear them.

When I raise the issue with security they say whenever they tell these mask Dodgers to wear them they just say we don't have one..

Kids in the building seem to be exempt.. never wear them, cough and sneeze..

Ignorance it seems is bliss, either that or plain selfishness.

New t-shirt design on its way... = No mask makes you a potential killer

THIGV wrote:

I posted once that the Vietnamese custom of relatives providing services for patients was admirable but could be problematic in the age of COVID-19.  It seems that is becoming true.  Not all, but a number of the recent patients seem to have contracted the virus while visiting relatives who were hospitalized for other reasons.  Danang patients  Maybe it is time for the hospitals to stop all visitations for a while, not just for COVID-19 but for all patients.

The problem is exactly as you state it.

Maybe we can brainstorm a different solution?

I have ideas but short on time now.

I'll revisit this thread later today.

Another patient tied to caring for other patients at Da Nang Hospital:  Patient 621  This is obviously a layman's opinion but this hospital really needs to immediately stop all visitation, test all inpatients and employees regardless of symptoms, and isolate all positives in a closed ward. Employees who work in the COVID ward should have little or no contact with other patients or contact with fellow employees.   I imagine that like most hospitals in Vietnam, this one conducts outpatient clinics.  They need to put these on hold for a while too, and only operate a triage system for severe ER situations.  Stopping a hot-spot at a hospital is a difficult task but it can be done.

FabriceVN wrote:

This disease only kills the old persons, in poor health. It is the same in all countries of the world.

Quantify "old" and "in poor health".

My 54 year old brother, in very good health died of it in April.

Overweight Unicorn wrote:

Quantify "old" and "in poor health".

It means with minimum a "comorbidity".
For example 80% of people who died from Covid are obese.
A man with no diabetes, asthma, cancer, not fat, etc., cannot die of the Covid.

FabriceVN wrote:

Overweight Unicorn wrote:

Quantify "old" and "in poor health".

It means with minimum a "comorbidity".
For example 80% of people who died from Covid are obese.
A man with no diabetes, asthma, cancer, not fat, etc., cannot die of the Covid.

Thank god for that, you just made my day how about a really fit guy but nearly 70????

goodolboy wrote:

FabriceVN wrote:

Overweight Unicorn wrote:

Quantify "old" and "in poor health".

It means with minimum a "comorbidity".
For example 80% of people who died from Covid are obese.
A man with no diabetes, asthma, cancer, not fat, etc., cannot die of the Covid.

Thank god for that, you just made my day how about a really fit guy but nearly 70????

The inability to control one's own flatulence inside of a crowded elevator is a certain sign that a person is not "really fit"... 😉

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

FabriceVN wrote:

It means with minimum a "comorbidity".
For example 80% of people who died from Covid are obese.
A man with no diabetes, asthma, cancer, not fat, etc., cannot die of the Covid.

Thank god for that, you just made my day how about a really fit guy but nearly 70????

The inability to control one's own flatulence inside of a crowded elevator is a certain sign that a person is not "really fit"... 😉

I heard that elevator has been decommissioned due to a lingering odor. Described by some as being a smell similar to rotten eggs. 

colinoscapee wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

Thank god for that, you just made my day how about a really fit guy but nearly 70????

The inability to control one's own flatulence inside of a crowded elevator is a certain sign that a person is not "really fit"... 😉

I heard that elevator has been decommissioned due to a lingering odor. Described by some as being a smell similar to rotten eggs. 

Chicken Vin Da Loo.......................let the win bla free where er ye be..........old Scottish saying
The apartment management got the environment guy in cos someone reported they thought a rat had died under the floor.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

FabriceVN wrote:

It means with minimum a "comorbidity".
For example 80% of people who died from Covid are obese.
A man with no diabetes, asthma, cancer, not fat, etc., cannot die of the Covid.

Thank god for that, you just made my day how about a really fit guy but nearly 70????

The inability to control one's own flatulence inside of a crowded elevator is a certain sign that a person is not "really fit"... 😉

FabriceVN wrote:

It means with minimum a "comorbidity".
For example 80% of people who died from Covid are obese.
A man with no diabetes, asthma, cancer, not fat, etc., cannot die of the Covid.

Then you are either ill informed, or just making it up.

SteinNebraska wrote:

I had typed this yesterday but didn't send it so as to not sound callous.  I really have a tough time calling these COVID deaths.  Both were at end of cycle with their chronic diseases.  The first one especially.

In the US they have had traffic fatalities where injuries from the car accident caused death at the scene.  For some reason they feel they must test post-mortem to see if they have COVID in the system.  If it is present then a traffic accident is counted as a COVID death.  One reason in the US is that Medicaid pays a hospital $13,000 for every admitted COVID patient, $30,000 if they are put on a ventilator.  Most hospitals are for-profit hospitals.  Follow the money.

Another case was a woman that was in hospice for inoperable cancer and had been for a couple of months.  The doctors could do nothing to save her.  She contracted COVID at some point and died.  Yep, COVID death, even though she was only marking time until she passed from the cancer.

I am SO happy to see some COVID-skepticism finally creep into these threads. Stein is correct, and in fact when you investigate it, you find so many more examples of how the US, especially, is inflating the COVID numbers tremendously, with the help of a compliant mass media.

I have tons of links exposing this scam but won't post them here since the moderator loves to censor dissenting info, same way Facebook, Youtube and Twitter do. But if you want links to more info, PM me.

Ciambella wrote:

Patient 428, resident of Hoi An, under treatment in Da Nang and Hue Hospitals, died of myocardial infarction due to severe medical history and COVID-19

The National Steering Committee on COVID-19 Prevention and Control announced the death of Patient 428, a 70 years old male.

Patient had a history of chronic renal failure, had been on dialysis twice a week for more than 10 years, had hypertension, heart failure, and ischemic heart disease.

On July 9, patient complained of chest tightness and fatigue, was admitted to Da Nang Hospital with the diagnoses:  End-stage renal disease / Artificial kidney / Hypertension / Ischemic heart disease / End-stage heart failure  / Pneumonia.

Patient was hospitalised in the Department of Internal Medicine - Urology of Da Nang General. 

On July 26, 2020, patient was tested oropharyngeal fluid positive for SARS-CoV-2 virus.

At 5:30 on July 30, patient had a respiratory failure, was connected to mechanical ventilator and intravenous dialysis.

At 7:30, patient had a cardiac arrest.  Patient's heart stopped for 5 minutes, then successfully received emergency cardiac rescue.  Patient received continuous intravenous dialysis treatment.

At 21:45, patient were transported to Hue Central Hospital with monitors and full emergency resuscitation equipment on board.

At 0:25 on July 31, patient was admitted to Emergency Recovery Department of Hue Central in very serious condition with very high mortality prognosis.

Five minutes later, patient had bradycardia and was connected to mechanical ventilation in ICU.  After 5 minutes of vascular loss, emergency resuscitation, patient's pulse was restored and BP returned to 190-200 mmHg.  Thirty minutes later, patient's BP pressure was reduced to 140 - 110/70 mmHg.

At dawn on July 31, patient had another cardiac arrest, was given emergency cardiac rescue but died at 5:30 on July 31.

The Treatment Subcommittee assessed that patient was an elderly person with many severe underlying conditions who died despite all possible treatments given by leading experts on emergency resuscitation, cardiology, and infectious diseases, in addition to many resuscitations and constant emergency care.

Cause of death:  Myocardial infarction, underlying hypertension, ischemic heart disease, heart failure, end-stage chronic renal failure, complications of respiratory failure due to heart failure, and [finally] COVID-19.

Source:  Health & Life News Media, the Voice of the Ministry of Health, issued at 15:46 on July 31.

In the US or UK, that death certificate would have read COVID on the top line, and all the co-morbidities further down or on the second page. That's how CDC instructs hospitals to record COVID deaths.

Everywhere in the world, average COVID death is 70 to 90 years old with many underlying conditions. It's just like the flu, it will kill the old, weak and immune suppressed and practically everyone else will survive it easily.

Anyone who can't see there's a major political agenda behind this is just ill-informed. I don't blame them, because they are getting their information from a highly dishonest mass media which they assume tells the truth.

I am over 70 and my doctors have given me a minimal 10 year prognosis based on my heart status and prostate cancer.  If I were to die from complications of COVID-19 would you say that I died from other causes?  There is a big difference between 10 years and 10 weeks.

THIGV wrote:

I am over 70 and my doctors have given me a minimal 10 year prognosis based on my heart status and prostate cancer.  If I were to die from complications of COVID-19 would you say that I died from other causes?  There is a big difference between 10 years and 10 weeks.

Viewed mathematically, that makes sense.

Instead, view the human body as similar to an electrical generator.

When a generator "fails", it doesn't have to stop completely.

It's enough for the efficiency to drop 5 or 10 percent in order for supported machines to stop working.

Even more likely if the supported machines (heart, lungs kidneys, liver, etc) are already compromised.

Before I retrained as a Clinical Specialist in the Army, I worked with the FADAC (Field Artillery Digital Automatic Computer) in Fire Direction Control (FDC).

We had this hinky generator that was always fluctuating the power supplied to our FADAC, and when efficiency dropped by 5 or 10 percent, the FADAC simply shut down.

It didn't keep working at a less efficient rate.

It totally shut down.

I'm honestly happy to hear that you've been given approximately a minimum of 10 years, because that number still implies you have the potential to stretch your life out even further if you are totally compliant with recommended exercise, diet, medication, physical and mental therapies...and you have good luck.

If they are saying 10 years, they are likely giving you their best average guess, but it's probably highly likely that you could eke out another couple or few years by being religiously compliant with your total care plan.

Yet if you adopt only one bad behavior, you could probably be gone in 6 months to a year.

Start smoking 1 1/2 packs a day and see what your already compromised heart thinks about that.

COVID-19 can have a similar impact on people with one or more preconditions/comorbidities.

So it's just a bit disingenuous in my view for any death where COVID-19 is present to have COVID-19 listed as the main cause of death.

But the political pressure to do just that in the United States is currently huge.

Add to that the financial incentives for hospital administrators to get physicians to consider coding a death as COVID-19 related.

IMNSHO, I believe THAT to be the primary reason that COVID-19 death rates are being shown to be worse than death rates from seasonal flu.

Opinion only.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

So it's just a bit disingenuous in my view for any death where COVID-19 is present to have COVID-19 listed as the main cause of death.

But the political pressure to do just that in the United States is currently huge.

On the other hand it is assumed that in the US because of our "pay to play" medical system, large numbers of people die at home without visiting a hospital or ER. 

In Vietnam I expect that some very rural people may not have ready access to hospitals but that is not where the virus is likely to be found.  Despite what some strongly anti-communist commentators may say, the Vietnamese statistics are likely quite accurate.

THIGV wrote:

I am over 70 and my doctors have given me a minimal 10 year prognosis based on my heart status and prostate cancer.  If I were to die from complications of COVID-19 would you say that I died from other causes?  There is a big difference between 10 years and 10 weeks.

I think for many of those who are alreadly gravely ill and die from Covid, it's basically the straw that breaks the camels back.

THIGV wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

So it's just a bit disingenuous in my view for any death where COVID-19 is present to have COVID-19 listed as the main cause of death.

But the political pressure to do just that in the United States is currently huge.

On the other hand it is assumed that in the US because of our "pay to play" medical system, large numbers of people die at home without visiting a hospital or ER. 

In Vietnam I expect that some very rural people may not have ready access to hospitals but that is not where the virus is likely to be found.  Despite what some strongly anti-communist commentators may say, the Vietnamese statistics are likely quite accurate.

I pretty much agree.

If I were Vietnamese, those TV and internet images of people being dragged from their homes in Wuhan would have scared me underground.

I suspect that one reason for lower infection stats here has been a reluctance to step forward for testing, but as Ciambella has pointed out a few times, the government has been on top of this since Day 1.

Lower death rates "might" be because the elderly infirm were not brought to hospitals, but were allowed to die in peace at home without being tested.

But deaths are hard to hide when there is a heightened scrutiny by public health officials.

In line with your observation about rural Vietnam, I'd say that a major preexisting condition or comorbidity that has contributed to the higher COVID-19 numbers in America is "affluence"...

I appreciate your comments which were based on reports from the media in Vietnam!
You appear very anti US.
Do you really think the Vietnamese media will inform the locals the truth and nothing but the truth?
The patient may have had chronic conditions and yet could have lived another 6 or more months instead Covid got him brother.
Realistically do you think it's Vietnam's first Covid death ???

2754 wrote:

I appreciate your comments which were based on reports from the media in Vietnam!
You appear very anti US.
Do you really think the Vietnamese media will inform the locals the truth and nothing but the truth?
The patient may have had chronic conditions and yet could have lived another 6 or more months instead Covid got him brother.
Realistically do you think it's Vietnam's first Covid death ???

Please tell us to whom you are replying?

We get extra points for being anti-US, especially if we are American traitors... 😉

The death toll from Covid in Vietnam now stands at 23. The spike Figures commenced 31 July till today.

2754 wrote:

The death toll from Covid in Vietnam now stands at 23. The spike Figures commenced 31 July till today.

It's a MIRACLE!

Apparently, there has been a resurrection, as these are the official figures a minute ago via the official ministry of health app:



You might consider not going out of your way to quote facts in your second post, if you don't in fact know the facts, but the fact is, it's probably not your second post, is it?

Welcome back

#Troll

hyagly256 wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

Patient 428, resident of Hoi An, under treatment in Da Nang and Hue Hospitals, died of myocardial infarction due to severe medical history and COVID-19

The National Steering Committee on COVID-19 Prevention and Control announced the death of Patient 428, a 70 years old male.

Patient had a history of chronic renal failure, had been on dialysis twice a week for more than 10 years, had hypertension, heart failure, and ischemic heart disease.

On July 9, patient complained of chest tightness and fatigue, was admitted to Da Nang Hospital with the diagnoses:  End-stage renal disease / Artificial kidney / Hypertension / Ischemic heart disease / End-stage heart failure  / Pneumonia.

Patient was hospitalised in the Department of Internal Medicine - Urology of Da Nang General. 

On July 26, 2020, patient was tested oropharyngeal fluid positive for SARS-CoV-2 virus.

At 5:30 on July 30, patient had a respiratory failure, was connected to mechanical ventilator and intravenous dialysis.

At 7:30, patient had a cardiac arrest.  Patient's heart stopped for 5 minutes, then successfully received emergency cardiac rescue.  Patient received continuous intravenous dialysis treatment.

At 21:45, patient were transported to Hue Central Hospital with monitors and full emergency resuscitation equipment on board.

At 0:25 on July 31, patient was admitted to Emergency Recovery Department of Hue Central in very serious condition with very high mortality prognosis.

Five minutes later, patient had bradycardia and was connected to mechanical ventilation in ICU.  After 5 minutes of vascular loss, emergency resuscitation, patient's pulse was restored and BP returned to 190-200 mmHg.  Thirty minutes later, patient's BP pressure was reduced to 140 - 110/70 mmHg.

At dawn on July 31, patient had another cardiac arrest, was given emergency cardiac rescue but died at 5:30 on July 31.

The Treatment Subcommittee assessed that patient was an elderly person with many severe underlying conditions who died despite all possible treatments given by leading experts on emergency resuscitation, cardiology, and infectious diseases, in addition to many resuscitations and constant emergency care.

Cause of death:  Myocardial infarction, underlying hypertension, ischemic heart disease, heart failure, end-stage chronic renal failure, complications of respiratory failure due to heart failure, and [finally] COVID-19.

Source:  Health & Life News Media, the Voice of the Ministry of Health, issued at 15:46 on July 31.

In the US or UK, that death certificate would have read COVID on the top line, and all the co-morbidities further down or on the second page. That's how CDC instructs hospitals to record COVID deaths.

Everywhere in the world, average COVID death is 70 to 90 years old with many underlying conditions. It's just like the flu, it will kill the old, weak and immune suppressed and practically everyone else will survive it easily.

Anyone who can't see there's a major political agenda behind this is just ill-informed. I don't blame them, because they are getting their information from a highly dishonest mass media which they assume tells the truth.

As opposed to the highly classified and accurate information you receive on the 3rd Tuesday of every month with your fresh shipment of hydrodroxychloroquine and Clorox.

23rd official death.

colinoscapee wrote:

I think for many of those who are alreadly gravely ill and die from Covid, it's basically the straw that breaks the camels back.

Precisely. Very good analogy.

Source please?

jimmythepiipe wrote:

Source please?

Quote please?