Living with Covid19

The world is going to struggle with this virus until either it has run it's course or a vaccine is released.  In the meantime all we can do is use common sense.  It's hard enough in a first world country and will be harder in the developing world IMO.

Let's pray for a vaccine ASAP!

From being optimistic of managing covid19 during the early days, I have become increasingly pesimistic.

Rather than running it's course this looks like a virus that will plague the whole world for many years to come. Immunity level after covid19 is in question.

I take the hopeful news on vaccines with a pinch of salt. The good thing is that no expense is being spared trying to find one that works in record time. The downside is that big business and governments are in this to their neck and will spin the positives. Fact is that no vaccines have been found for any coronavirus. And how can one be sure of effectiveness and long term effect without testing it long term? I fear we are going to be sold a partial cure.

Lifestyle change is the key imo. Live but mitigate risk of infection. Choose safe options and avoid places where risk is higher. Unfortunately that becomes almost impossible if the virus is allowed to spread out of control such that no place or person can be considered virus free.

From the London Telegraph today


Supermarket workers facing torrent of 'mask rage' as historical levels of abuse recorded

'Flashpoints' occurred when people were asked to follow the guidance and when young consumers were asked to remove masks to check ID
By Sarah Knapton, Science Editor 2 August 2020 • 5:38pm

Supermarket workers are facing a worrying rise of ‘mask rage' with The Co-op reporting that staff had suffered historical levels of abuse since the new regulations were enacted.

The retailer said it had recorded 990 incidents of anti-social behaviour and verbal abuse between Monday, July 20 and Sunday 26th - two days after masks were made compulsory in shops.

Almost all confrontations were related to the wearing of face masks with ‘flashpoints' occurring when people were asked to follow the guidance and when young consumers were asked to remove masks to check ID when buying alcohol.

A Co-op spokesman told The Grocer magazine: “We've seen a marked rise in abuse, threats and even assaults on shop workers during the Covid crisis and believe this could be another flashpoint.

“That's why we continue to campaign for greater protection, with a new offence which dishes out stiffer sentences to those guilty of harming shop workers.”

July 24 marked the first day that people in England have been legally obliged to wear a face covering in shops, shopping centres, banks, takeaway outlets, post offices, sandwich shops and supermarkets.

There has been a mixed response to the mask rules among retailers, with some employing Covid-19 compliance officers and turning customers away from branches if they do not have face coverings.

However others, such as Sainsbury's and Asda have said publicly they will not be challenging customers without masks and the police have stated they will only enforce the rules and £100 fines as a ‘last resort'.

The regulations also do not require shop workers to wear masks which has led to ill-feeling amongst some customers. Last week the British Medical Association (BMA) said shop staff should be wearing face coverings in the same way that customers are required to.

In a survey published last week, 37 per cent of respondents say they have witnessed furious rows when individuals break the rules over masks – in shops and on public transport. 

According to an Ipsos Mori and King's College poll this week, one in eight people have been confronted or reported for not wearing a mask, the equivalent of around six million Britons.

Before the mask rules were brought in, unions warned that supermarket staff would face the brunt of public anger because rules were not clear.

The mask regulations will extend to museums, cinemas and places of worship in England from August 8. Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister said face coverings will be compulsory in indoor settings where people are likely to come into contact with others they do not know.

He said this would mean “a greater police presence to ensure face coverings are being worn where this is required”.

Well I'm sure some of this is true.  However my daughters live in the SE of England and they tell me people are complying.  According to a recent YouGov poll +70% of Britons back the Gov in making masks compulsory. 
In terms of young kids buying alcohol and having to remove their masks for ID check-that is quite normal.  At SD airport we were all asked at the control centres to removing our masks as they checked our passports.

I confess I am currently in the south of France and I don't see any of this.  Everyone I see is compliant with the law and all are wearing masks and respecting social distancing.  In our area-population about 400K we have 2 cases in hospital in July and no new cases.  In the whole department -population about  5.9m there are 45 people in hospital.

There must be some real form of discipline injected into people-how I'm not sure but discipline, social distancing ans wearing masks  are important and perhaps local lock-downs.  Stop ALL travel to and from the US, Brazil, Mexico etc.

And let's hope the new Gov does something-just a pity people have to wait for another 2 weeks for any potential action.

My daughter returns to London tomorrow - for Tuesday arrival
having been away for all this

That's not the first article I have seen - and I am sure not all regions are the same

The beaches are out of control - no masks, no distancing

Cornwall is a recent example

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/dest … ronavirus/

I must say there are a lot of inaccuracies about the Guardian article.  Not sure where it was the temperatures were 41.  I'm allegedly in the hottest part and we reached 32.
If you consider the current stats, France is doing better than most, that's not say say it can't do better.  All EU countries which have eased on the lock-down are seeing small spikes.  In the case of the UK they are lock down whole cities-i.e. Leicester and that is working.

As Lennox said we must all be vigilant and hope for a successful vaccine.  I see the Russian declared today their vaccine is ready and will now be administered to the population.  We will see!  Oxford University plan starting their program in December-January, again we will see.  There's a long way to go and we must all adjust our living ways to deal with this virus and be totally uncompromising about "wash your hands, wear a face mask & keep your distance" (HMD)

Agreed

Anyone going to any beach is nuts.  Let's be frank this need oodles of common sense, unfortunately not everyone shares this view.
Hope her flight goes well.  London is doing okay for the time being with thousands of spare beds, God forbid, should they be required.

How COVID-19 will change the way we design our homes

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/08/ … dfe95b686/

How the COVID-19 Pandemic Might Change Hospitality Design

https://www.hotelbusiness.com/how-the-c … rettyPhoto

Interesting reading and predictable imo..

deleted - wrong thread

Europe & UK

The Telegraph


    Hugh Morris, Travel news editor Greg Dickinson, Digital Content Producer

3 August 2020 • 4:09pm

    Can I visit Spain? Latest advice as FCO warns against all but essential travel
    Is Cornwall really ‘like Benidorm on steroids' this weekend? ​
    The safest destinations for a last-minute summer holiday
    Sign up to Telegraph Travel's newsletter

The majority of British holidaymakers would rather cancel a holiday than wear a mask outdoors, according to a new YouGov survey.

The survey showed that at least half of British, German and French holidaymakers would rather cancel their holiday than go into quarantine afterwards, take a test upon arrival, or wear a mask outdoors.

Two-thirds of Germans would cancel a holiday if they needed to take a test upon arrival. This comes after Germany this week imposed a mandatory Covid-19 test for travellers arriving from 130 countries.

Half of French respondents said they would rather cancel than test, and the same percentage would call off a trip if they had to wear a mask outdoors.

Many European destinations have rolled out compulsory mask-wearing in public. Parts of Spain now require face coverings, and the Portuguese island of Madeira introduced the policy over the weekend.

A smaller proportion of British people, 40%, would cancel a trip because they have to wear a mask indoors. Some 70% said they would cancel a trip if they had to quarantine for two weeks on return.

Interesting articles Lennox. Thanks

I do struggle to understand the resistence to wearing a simple face mask when mandatory as it is in DR.

Ask yourself why do medical operatives wear face masks?

The answer is plain to see and has been verified by research published including The Lancet. A simple single layer facemask in that study showed reduction of transmission of droplets by 67%. A two layer one properly designed can be significantly more effective. No doubt there are researchers who say differently when paid for their commentary.

All the political spin is detracting populations from protecting themselves from covid19 spread and long term economic damage.

It is an incredible 'head in the sand' or rather 'lemming' behavour when coupled with the importance of social distancing.

God help us with some in western society with it's head up it's rear end. Some people really need to grow up and stop behaving like toddlers!

Masks are but one good aid to reducing transmission and substantially Dominicans when out and about 'get' it. Foreigners coming here need to 'get' it too!

Foreigners not abiding by the local laws need to go to a Dominican jail!!!

I agree with everything you say and I share your frustration!!!

I agree with you both. I wear my mask whenever I get near others and when grocery shopping whether anyone is near or not. I always have a mask on me, I do not wear it when walking or riding my bike. THere is certainly a lot of misunderstanding of what masks do and the study mentioned certainly educated me further. Too bad this wasn't part of educating the people. I have been doing so for my neighbours and they seem to understand....but hard to tell if I'm just the crazy gringo.....they are still being nice...hehehe..

I get  many dominicans,  educated professionals in some cases, sending me the  BS that is flying around social medica thinking its real!  They have no way of  knowing the difference. They believe what they want to believe! 

The video of those  so called doctors  - that was  debunked across the board - is believed here!

The  Russian vaccine - is coming  this month to save us all!

Coronavirus: WHO raises fears there may never be a 'silver bullet' to beat COVID-19

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- … 9-12041898

........Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said while work on an "effective" vaccine is under way in several countries, a perfect one to end the pandemic may never be found..................In a bid to stop the virus exploding again, Dr Tedros appealed to countries to rigorously enforce measures such as mask-wearing, social distancing, hand washing and testing.

"The message to people and governments is clear: Do it all," he said at a news conference from the WHO headquarters in Geneva.

"A number of vaccines are now in phase three clinical trials and we all hope to have a number of effective vaccines that can help prevent people from infection.
"However, there's no silver bullet at the moment - and there might never be."

"There are concerns that we may not have a vaccine that may work, or its protection could be for just a few months, not more.

"But until we finish the clinical trials, we will not know."

That is our reality!

Such pessimism from this man.

I hope the the experts and doctors in Oxford and London who have both stated cautious optimism regarding their vaccines are proved to be correct.  We all need good news don't we.  In the meantime we keep on observing social distancing, masks and washing hands.

I am also not expecting a miracle fix.  That is reality of the situation.   

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.   Do what you can to protect yourself

None of the experts expect total protection. The most optimistic hope for 80% efficacy and the more realistic hope for similar to the flu vaccine at 50%-60%. And then there is the question of for how long the vaccine has effect. Based on the most recent studies immunitity lasts for about 3 months and varies from person to person.

A vaccine providing 'help' in preventing infection is the key take away here.

A good vaccine will not solve the problem in most countries for a very long time unless all the population is forced to take it which will not happen.

The spread of covid19 is now so great that as history has told us with eradicating other less widesread viruses - smallpox comes to mind with an effective vaccine - it will take many years to get this under control unless society and people change their ways of living wholesale.....and again that is not going to happen because society and opinions are so divided.

Don't rely on a silver bullet. Adjust your way of living and enjoy your life in a different way is the take away from the communication from the WHO, who will have a far better picture on the virus than any intermediary.

Agreed.   Sadly there is so much hype attached to the concept of a virus!   Those who do not educate themselves are going to be disappointed. Or very  sick. Or dead.

Carte Jaune

If we do get a covid19 vaccine next year, I wonder if there will be a resurgence of use of the Carte Jaune (international certificate of vaccination) as a requirement for travel between countries and the health check counter will be found again in international airports?

Not everybody will remember these official WHO documents carried with your passport that were needed to enter many countries pre-smallpox eradication and are still required by a few counties where yellow fever and polio are concerns.

Yup that is before my time of travelling!    Who knows how they might handle this!

I still carry my vaccination book used whilst in the military as some vaccines last for a long time. Always with my passport ....

Ditto-and it's yellow!

It is indeed...

wrong thread

Thanks for the link.  But, there is no reason to trust anything coming via the current administration.  It never acts in the interest of the citizens, only in the interest of the administration.

TomElGato wrote:

Thanks for the link.  But, there is no reason to trust anything coming via the current administration.  It is never clear if they are acting in the interest of the citizens or if they are upset because an 'offending' country has not paid some bounty to the administration.

Moved the links to the travel thread.

TomElGato wrote:

current administration..

Political statements are only true for those that agree with them.
As variable truth tends to cause a lot of arguments, party politics are unwelcome here.

Fred it was based on the fact the govt changes over in ten days.  I am all over this here.  Thanks.

Coronavirus: Is the world winning the pandemic fight?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53694982

...........But one fact unites everyone, whether they make their home in the Amazon rainforest, the skyscrapers of Singapore or the late-summer streets of the UK: this is a virus that thrives on close human contact. The more we come together, the easier it will spread........

This central tenet explains the situation wherever you are in the world and dictates what the future will look like.

It is driving the high volume of cases in Latin America - the current epicentre of the pandemic - and the surge in India. It explains why Hong Kong is keeping people in quarantine facilities or the South Korean authorities are monitoring people's bank accounts and phones. It illustrates why Europe and Australia are struggling to balance lifting lockdowns and containing the disease. And why we are trying to find a "new normal" rather than the old one.

"This is a virus circulating all over the planet. It affects every single one of us. It goes from human to human, and highlights that we are all connected," said Dr Elisabetta Groppelli, from St George's, University of London. "It's not just about travel, it's speaking and spending time together - that's what humans do."

.......
nd - in a warning to us all - past success is no guarantee for the future. Hong Kong was widely praised for resisting the first wave of coronavirus - now bars and gyms have been closed again, while its Disneyland resort managed to keep the gates open for less than a month.

"Leaving lockdown does not mean back to the old ways. It's a new normal. People have not got that message at all," Dr Harris said.........

Generally, the world's hopes of getting life back to normal are pinned on a vaccine. Immunising people breaks the virus's ability to spread...........

Dr Margaret Harris, of WHO, said: "People have this Hollywood-esque belief in a vaccine; that scientists are just going to fix it. In a two-hour film the end comes pretty quickly, but scientists aren't Brad Pitt, injecting themselves and saying 'we're all going to be saved'."

Yes  this is the new normal. And cultures like ours here make it difficult for many to accept and adapt to.

The new governement said it would start implementing it's plans to control and reduce the spread of covid19 from Monday.

Without any details we were told it would involve community action and cooperation.

Nagua jumped the gun and put in place restrictive measures.

Now Cotui has annonunced that from Monday it will start similar restrictive measures. Monday is the clue that this may be the new governements plan countrywide where there are serious problems.

https://www.eldinero.com.do/116906/alca … n-fuertes/

Don't be surprised if your town or barrio announces the same on Monday.

This appears to be their way of dealing with the problems community by community, and there are many in this country with serious problems of transmission.

Wow,   that is brutal and I really do NOT understand a  24 hour lock down on weekends and  2pm other days. Now we we will be faced with everyone running out  and trying to get  things done all at the same time. We will be back to  long lineups etc defeating the purpose of all of this.

Just no logic in some of this.

Cotui has been in a bad way for quite some time. I hear the stories from family living quite close. It had spread bad to nearby Cevicos.

There are many other towns in this country that need shock treatment too plus a some barrios in the big cities.

Shock treatment might work in DR to get people to respect social distancing, mask use and hand disinfecting. That is better than full lock down!

For expats, don't be surprised if there is something in stall for you come Monday along the North Coast. The situation there has been deteriorating and an influx of Americans with no proper health checks on arrival chasing and mixing with local women is a bad recipe for rapid spread.

Yes the north coast  has  way too many cases and zero hospital beds available apparently.

Dreadful.  I'm only glad I was able to leave.  I just hope this new administration do something positive for the sake of the people and the country.

Lets hope so!