COVID-19 and expatriation in Hungary

zif wrote:

Thank you for looking at that.

Yet take another look at Section 5, the relevant section dealing with foreigners coming from "Yellow" countries.

Yes, I read 5(1) as saying that foreigners coming from "Yellow" countries will be examined at the border.

And yes, I read 5(3) as saying that if they don't have any symptoms they'll be subject to a 14-day quarantine.

But I read 5(5) as saying that nonetheless they won't be subject to quarantine if they've had two negative tests at least 48 hours apart starting no more than five days before arriving Hungary ("a Magyarországra történő belépést megelőző 5 napon belül").

I also read all this as hinging not on your nationality but on whether you arrive in Hungary from the territory of a "yellow" country: "Külföldről érkező nem magyar állampolgár személyforgalomban sárga jelzéssel besorolt ország területéről . . ." But this is a very important point, so it needs to be confirmed. (Don't know how transits will be treated.)

Yes, previously it was nationality driven.   UK and USA are Yellow I see at the Gazette notice.  Seems to be different to that explained by OV's Chief of Staff.

One might want to look at the EU web site as well as this is more usefully accessible design wise.  I would hope it would be official as well because of Schengen but I suspect nonsense there too:

"Hungarian citiziens arriving from yellow or red labelled countries are subject to obligatory health checks. If the health examination reveals a suspicion of infection, 14-day quarantine will be imposed by the epidemiological authority.

Quarantine is not required for Hungarian citizens having performed a PCR test twice, with the second test been taken at least 48 hours after the first one, and within 5 days prior to entering Hungary, and both these tests certify a negative result for SARS-CoV-2.

Non-Hungarian citizens cannot enter Hungary from red countries.
Non Hungarian citizens arriving from yellow labelled countries must undergo medical examinations.

If the health examination reveals a suspicion of infection, entry into the country is not allowed. If no infection is suspected, the person shall be placed in quarantine for 14 days by the epidemiological authority or, if possible without risk, in official home quarantine."

Doesn't say what is an acceptable COVID19 test and doesn't say what happens to foreigners who actually had tests.  *sigh*.

I should point out that there's misinformation at the EU web site as it redirects people to IATA but that's way out of date and 3 weeks old.

I personally will wear a mask whenever required and even more, we are still in a soft voluntary quarantaine and will go out as little as possible, having said that, Hungary seems to be one of the safest countries in the world (currently).
Masks will give only limited protection though and give in my view a partially safe sense of security. Gloves in my view are the first thing to wear when going to a shop.

Still little risk right now, September/October will likely be higher risk. I am worried (and also a much more difficult period in finding things to do). Until October/November though walnuts (and apples (October ) to collect. Christmas period is probably going to be horrible.

cdw057 wrote:

I personally will wear a mask whenever required and even more, we are still in a soft voluntary quarantaine and will go out as little as possible, having said that, Hungary seems to be one of the safest countries in the world (currently).

Masks will give only limited protection though and give in my view a partially safe sense of security. Gloves in my view are the first thing to wear when going to a shop.

Still little risk right now, September/October will likely be higher risk. I am worried (and also a much more difficult period in finding things to do). Until October/November though walnuts (and apples (October ) to collect. Christmas period is probably going to be horrible.

Masks give  a lot more protection than one might think.  In large groups like concert halls I've heard the risk is 3% (3 persons in 100 might get the virus) if everyone is wearing a mask.  Without a mask it's like 27% chance.  I heard that on the radio in an interview with a professor of public health.  No link I'm afraid to test the veracity of that claim.

Actually I'm already thinking of what projects I can do at home during the winter months.   I've got a bit of a list as always.   If we get lucky, one only has to survive depressing darkness, cold and rain between late November and early February when optimism will return.  Just so long as it doesn't snow heavily and turn my garden into a mudbath. 

HU is not that high on the safest level for C19, there are others out in Asia Pacific and Atlantic which have no cases and  are more or less unreachable, i.e. Pitcairn or Saint Helena. 

BTW, isn't Christmas always horrible anyway?

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

Well.... The link takes English speakers to a web site... but to call that "official" is a bit of a stretch. Maybe Hungarytoday.hu is simply owned by a government approved oligarch who is there to give government propaganda to English Speakers. Does not mean if it "official" in the terms I would use (i.e. a government owned and controlled web site).

I've been through this before.

Click here Impressum and you can see it's published by the Cabinet Office of the PM (of Hungary).   Looks pretty official to me!   It's their media outlet/press briefing vehicle.

Cabinet Office is the equivalent of an administrative ministry of government.  Blogs are another thing.  But Cabinet Office postings are from the horse or the horse's mouth.

Anything, IMHO, out of the cabinet office is propaganda. I might suggest, else, that the POTUS twitter feed should be equally relied upon.... Maybe you might want to cross reference hungarytoday.hu with something like https://hungarianspectrum.org, just to compare.....

Also, again... sad I have to repeat this, but a "generic" government source is still not the same as the official government source on the topic of COVID (this thread topic) as not all things are translated into English. Nor is it the legal source, which is the gazette. Those two site are really what one should look to for COVID information.

Which was and still is my point....

Clear yet? 

cdw057 wrote:

Hungary seems to be one of the safest countries in the world (currently).

Switzerland also has low rates of reported issues (and you must trust that the reported cases from any government are honest of course.....)

But..... You need to also consider quality of health care in case you get sick. Have you ever been to a Hungarian hospital? Versus a Swiss hospital? I have been to both... Would recommend you re-think Switzerland as an option...

St Helena, Pitcairn and for that matter also eg Tristan da Cunha definitely have their pluses. A bit limited I imagine in terms of concerts, restaurants and choice of fruits and vegs. No local chess clubs either I think:).

Still I take the point and these type of locations definitely have their attraction (in any case close to beaches which are not crowded, beautiful nature, etc, , , but currently not considering moving there (apart from the fact I think it is very expensive to do so and live there). Negative would also be that you really have to get on with your neighbours (no choice), not too much choice in terms or produce, ....)

As mentioned I will wear face masks, but I will NOT go to restaurants, concerts or other events until a vaccine or medicine is available.

Wine merchants and butchers are happy with us during this period and honestly also post Covid they will be (good quality, good prices, home delivery).

I also do not like Christmas too much, having said that there are some good concerts during that period in our neighborhood, I doubt we will visit this year (even it there would be performances).

cdw057 wrote:

St Helena, Pitcairn and for that matter also eg Tristan da Cunha definitely have their pluses. A bit limited I imagine in terms of concerts, restaurants and choice of fruits and vegs. No local chess clubs either I think:). .

I for one appreciate your humor.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

Well.... The link takes English speakers to a web site... but to call that "official" is a bit of a stretch. Maybe Hungarytoday.hu is simply owned by a government approved oligarch who is there to give government propaganda to English Speakers. Does not mean if it "official" in the terms I would use (i.e. a government owned and controlled web site).

I've been through this before.

Click here Impressum and you can see it's published by the Cabinet Office of the PM (of Hungary).   Looks pretty official to me!   It's their media outlet/press briefing vehicle.

Cabinet Office is the equivalent of an administrative ministry of government.  Blogs are another thing.  But Cabinet Office postings are from the horse or the horse's mouth.

Anything, IMHO, out of the cabinet office is propaganda. I might suggest, else, that the POTUS twitter feed should be equally relied upon.... Maybe you might want to cross reference hungarytoday.hu with something like https://hungarianspectrum.org, just to compare.....

Also, again... sad I have to repeat this, but a "generic" government source is still not the same as the official government source on the topic of COVID (this thread topic) as not all things are translated into English. Nor is it the legal source, which is the gazette. Those two site are really what one should look to for COVID information.

Which was and still is my point....

Clear yet? 

Of course it's propaganda. I said it was.  But it's the HU government web site and so is the gazette as the official record. You cannot get more definitively official than that for policy and for the law.  Who else is running the country*?

We really want to know how to come and go and the decree is in the gazette.  The EU thing is supposedly aligned for Schengen and presumably approved by those people in Brussels.

* could be Putin or Soros....or Mezaros OV's sidekick...

cdw057 wrote:

St Helena, Pitcairn and for that matter also eg Tristan da Cunha definitely have their pluses. A bit limited I imagine in terms of concerts, restaurants and choice of fruits and vegs. No local chess clubs either I think:).

Still I take the point and these type of locations definitely have their attraction (in any case close to beaches which are not crowded, beautiful nature, etc, , , but currently not considering moving there (apart from the fact I think it is very expensive to do so and live there). Negative would also be that you really have to get on with your neighbours (no choice), not too much choice in terms or produce, ....)

As mentioned I will wear face masks, but I will NOT go to restaurants, concerts or other events until a vaccine or medicine is available.

Wine merchants and butchers are happy with us during this period and honestly also post Covid they will be (good quality, good prices, home delivery).

I also do not like Christmas too much, having said that there are some good concerts during that period in our neighborhood, I doubt we will visit this year (even it there would be performances).

I was once up for a job on Saint Helena.  I've been watching the place ever since.  I've tried to get there twice but neither chance worked out.  I think you can always find someone to play chess with.  You could make your own music, grow your own fruits and vegetables.  And safe from COVID19. 

I'm up to try the Kergeulen Cabbage or see what's growing at the Patches.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Of course it's propaganda. I said it was.  But it's the HU government web site

If one believes that Impressum...  Which also includes a Charter statement... Chartered to whom? Who actually owns this domain? Running the servers? Editing in charge of content (Publisher is not the same as editor in charge)? Don't assume this is only the government till proven otherwise. Could be all sorts of fingers in that pie. But I digress.

But... And.... Good grief.... again..... Going there gets news like "PM Orbán at “Europe Uncensored”: There are two competing concepts for the future of Europe"..... 

Not related to COVID specially, which is this topic. So not really fully relevant. And what COVID info is there is possibly.... to quote you "Of course it's propaganda".

Please stay on topic..... Avoid injecting self admitted propaganda sites directly.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I was once up for a job on Saint Helena..

off topic. Please move to Absolutely Anything Else.

cdw057 wrote:

Wine merchants and butchers are happy with us during this period and honestly also post Covid they will be (good quality, good prices, home delivery).

No one delivers food or drink where I live. 

Not even pizza. Have not for years..... No local delivery over 5 km (we are a little over that).

Well.... okay, there was a dog food company willing to deliver dried dog food for a 10,000 HUF delivery cost.... I really laughed out loud on that....

But... during COVID all other deliveries working okay. Mask wearing when getting packages, but otherwise, working fine.

"I should point out that there's misinformation at the EU web site as it redirects people to IATA but that's way out of date and 3 weeks old."

That's why I was insistent on seeing the actual text of the rule itself. It's fairly precise and detailed, and no doubt a lot more time of a lot more people went into drafting it than went into drafting a press release or an EU web page. As to propaganda, I think it's fair to assume that for domestic purposes, the Government would play up the increased restrictions in the new rule and downplay the loosening ups.

I should not and probably are not supposed to do so, but I order meat with Gusztahus.hu and wine with Borhalo.com
The latter one as I understand has routes throughout Hungary and they can plan you in.

Having said that, with both I order massively, without mentioning amounts meat and wine for at least 4 months at the time. (we have a big freezer:)) .
The butcher I think is around 15 km away.

I did not try to get rebates with the butcher (prices in my view are already very good), but I am sure you can get it  with the wine merchant. (provided you take a lot ).

A bit off topic I have to admit, but definitely linked to Covid

cdw057 wrote:

I should not and probably are not supposed to do so, but I order meat with Gusztahus.hu and wine with Borhalo.com
The latter one as I understand has routes throughout Hungary and they can plan you in.

Having said that, with both I order massively, without mentioning amounts meat and wine for at least 4 months at the time. (we have a big freezer:)) .
The butcher I think is around 15 km away.

I did not try to get rebates with the butcher (prices in my view are already very good), but I am sure you can get it  with the wine merchant. (provided you take a lot ).

A bit off topic I have to admit, but definitely linked to Covid

Well I think that delivery options are COVID related as the less time one goes out in public, the less option there is to get or spread the disease. And tip the delivery person, as they are providing a critical service that is probably underpaid for the risks they are taking.

Side note: I have a winery, so I do not need to order wine. And am a Vegetarian, so most of what I eat currently now comes from my garden. Besides, we have no freezer.... So large perishable food is not an option... we mostly grow root vegetables and squash for over winter.  But I also use low tunnels to extend fresh vegetables through most of the winter.  So I don't need to go out much. But a pizza delivered now and then.... would be nice.

Optimistic news on a vaccine.....but don't count your chickens yet...

I think the pressure to approve a vaccine for use in the U.S. by mid-October will be extraordinary. The stock market will soar. People will be happy again. Etc.

zif wrote:

I think the pressure to approve a vaccine for use in the U.S. by mid-October will be extraordinary. The stock market will soar. People will be happy again. Etc.

Yes, I think so too.    It'll be like someone took the hand/parking brake off, removed the chocks from the wheels and engaged full throttle.

But everyone will will have to be vaccinated once confidence is higher and trials increased - mid-2021 at least.  Imagine how long that's going to take.  Billions of people and plenty of denaro.   And so much resistance - I am sure some loonies will start to equate COVID19 vaccinations with some plot by Bill Gates etc or even worse. I think the governments are going to have to make this compulsory and free.  I can see that being fought against in some countries. 

I was innoculated against H1N1 (Bird Flu) using a relatively unproven vaccine. It was worth the risk at that moment as I was travelling in Asia.  I had to sign a disclaimer. 

There's an article on T-cells on Reuters about antibodies not being the entire story.  There's in-built resistance apparently which may play an important underplayed role.   Maybe there will be spin offs from the COVID19 outbreak which improves understanding of other diseases.

fluffy2560 wrote:

But everyone will will have to be vaccinated

Unless you live in 'Merica.....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vaxxe … s-vaccine/

fluffy2560 wrote:

There's an article on T-cells on Reuters.

All I learned in Biology class at... wait for it.... high school. Not at my University (where I actually majored in Biology).

Literacy of science by the general population is so pathetic it is scary. That it takes a "Reuters" article to explain to the average person what they should already know and understood if STEM education was done properly.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

But everyone will will have to be vaccinated

Unless you live in 'Merica.....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vaxxe … s-vaccine/

Apart from loony anti-science stuff, I think it'll be about cost.  Because of DT's public spat with Fauci, he'll ignore his and CDC advice and just create a reservoir of the disease in poor areas because people cannot pay.   

But elsewhere and slightly off topic, I suspect DT is orchestrating the foundations of a coup by building elements of a private army. 

Part of this ominous feeling is because I dismayed to hear that he might not adhere to the election result. 

He'd rather sell the people down the river as revenge than accept his rejection.    He's not just a moron, he's become a dangerously cornered moron. 

I can imagine Putin sputtering laughter over his vodka and never imagining how lucky he got and the Chinese are finding it hard to keep a straight face.

"But everyone will have to be vaccinated once confidence is higher and trials increased - mid-2021 at least."

Oh sure, it will still be a while before sunshine returns. Nonetheless, once vaccination starts and, hopefully, new cases start to decrease, there'll be a sea change in attitude across the world. Because at the moment all we have are grim winter predictions by grim medical specialists.

People are becoming desperate to see a crack open in those dark clouds. I certainly am.

There are also reports that Trump has adopted an America-first approach and tried to lock up early supplies of vaccines. Assuming 65+ will be a priority case for receiving the early shots, Americans with Medicare might consider pencilling in a quick trip back to the States late in the year.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Because of DT's public spat with Fauci, he'll ignore his and CDC advice and just create a reservoir of the disease in poor areas because people cannot pay.

Do not give too much credit to one person. One party in the USA has been active in every way to deny health care to the poor for decades. Nothing new. As has been pointed out many many times, from many sources, DT is not unique, he is simply the culmination, not the cause or nothing new, of a pattern from those on one side of the political spectrum behaving this way for decades. To try to scare people in one way or another to get elected. And it may get worse. Fear is a powerful weapon. And those that peddle in fear will not go down easily.

By blaming this on DT is missing the point. The point is much more complex and sinister......  Because they know and exploit the fact that most people do not base decision on facts. Fear. Again. Fear is their weapon. So... Don't be afraid. Best way to remove fear is to inform yourself from objective fact based sources and to actually.... horror of horrors.... believe the fact and science of professionals over ignorant politicians who may have no knowledge at all on government, infectious disease control or of too many topics other than being a failed casino owner, or simply a football coach.

klsallee wrote:

....

By blaming this on DT is missing the point. ....

The point is perhaps that DT is in charge and has numerous powers to deploy against anyone he chooses to be personally vindictive against.  And he seems to do that regularly judging by the turnover of his staff.   All the rest might be support or going on about some thing or other but actually right now, DT is able to do real things at scale and he's the one with his hand on the button.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

There's an article on T-cells on Reuters.

All I learned in Biology class at... wait for it.... high school. Not at my University (where I actually majored in Biology).

Literacy of science by the general population is so pathetic it is scary. That it takes a "Reuters" article to explain to the average person what they should already know and understood if STEM education was done properly.

We've all got specialisations in one way or another.   

We couldn't expect a lawyer to know about the physics of sunspot activity.  My dog knows nothing about air conditioning but it's an absolute expert at finding things by sense of smell.  I know FA about chlorophyll but I can tell you a fair bit about the sci-fi movie genre.  Mrs Fluffy is really good at goulash.

It's obvious that the general public would not - probably - have recognised the importance of T-Cells  whereas many reasonably educated and observant people paying attention at any given moment might  know generally about antibodies from vaccinations.   

If it takes Reuters to remind us (and I think we can trust Reuters news services) then that's OK. If it was from Fox News or the Daily Mail then questions would need to be asked.  I chose specifically the Reuters article as it wasn't written in a complicated style.

fluffy2560 wrote:

We've all got specialisations in one way or another. 

...snip...

It's obvious that the general public would not - probably - have recognised the importance of T-Cells

I completely disagree.

Your statement is simply based on a failure of basic education.

The concept of T-Cells is basic biology. Even, as I said, it was taught in my high school course. If you did not have it, that proves my point. Because even my basic biology course was an elective, not required. Basic biology should be a required course. It that were true, then your argument would vanish.

Everyone is suppose to learn algebra. But how many people use algebra each day? Counter that we deal with biological issues every day. If we know it or not. The population should have a far greater biological knowledge than they are being provide. It is a crime they are not.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

We've all got specialisations in one way or another. 

...snip...

It's obvious that the general public would not - probably - have recognised the importance of T-Cells

I completely disagree.

Your statement is simply based on a failure of basic education.

The concept of T-Cells is basic biology. Even, as I said, it was taught in my high school course. If you did not have it, that proves my point. Because even my basic biology course was an elective, not required. Basic biology should be a required course. It that were true, then your argument would vanish.

Everyone is suppose to learn algebra. But how many people use algebra each day? Counter that we deal with biological issues every day. If we know it or not. The population should have a far greater biological knowledge than they are being provide. It is a crime they are not.

Nah, not at all.  You are just talking about your own experiences and interests and making blanket generalisations. 

I could equally argue in a range of daily situations they should equally know how to calculate the trajectory of a rocket (or a bullet following a parabola) or explain Boyle's law or calculate how long it takes to drive X km at Y kph speed.    All sorts of people use mathematics each day - just think of builders/construction workers measuring right angles by measuring 3, 4, 5 triangles and applying Pythagoras's theorem.   They might not remember that but they use it.

Anyway, it's just a different school system in the UK where I was educated.   

There, we don't have to study biology until 18 which is presumably what happens in the US.   We could specialise when I was 16 (over 40 years ago) in three or four subjects.  You could choose a range of subjects like Pure Mathematics, Applied Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics, Music, History or Spanish or whatever you like or whatever exams you officially excelled in at 16.  Usually the choices are aimed at deciding what to study at university.  If you didn't choose biology at 16 then why would you know anything or even care much about T-cells?   If you wanted to say, study medicine, then you'd need Physics, Chemistry and Biology but if you wanted to do say, Engineering, Physics and Mathematics would be more appropriate.   

I've heard it said that the first year in a US university and other countries with the same model is at a similar level to the last year of a UK school and that first year at a US university is organised to make choices for the subject to study later.  Not the same.   

I remember almost nothing of biology in school. It's so long ago and I never really thought about how it might be used in day to day life other than gardening.  I don't think I'm particularly alone.

on good advice I copy my post to this thread


Things move fast, very fast in this world; I personally get a bit depressed on all this news. Hungary is still quite safe I think, even if figures might be understated.

Over the last few months I was surprised (and also shocked) in how far the topic was and is underestimated. I mentioned before me and my wife are (perhaps to the extreme) very careful, however some of our neighbors are not (guests, going everywhere ...).

Of course it is not good if anybody gets the virus (although a previous boss in Paris was in hospital (but did not die( I do not know on long lasting effects though)), I am pretty sure that some of the ex-colleagues in the US are also impacted (health wise)

Now however Corona did arrive in our village (Hungarian tourists) renting an apartment, I do not know them, but I feel sorry, still for becoming aware for the village it is a good thing, the guests are still young (and they will probably survive (long lasting effects is a different matter), for our fellow residents if is a good wake up call.

What I am a bit scared about is that all non-residents will be put in a box and in the end it might even extend to non-Hungarians even if residents. Not a topic right now at all and I feel we are in a way a bit integrated, still ....

At this stage tourists are frowned upon (I would even say especially if they are from Budapest). Really quite sad, but in a way rightfully so. Countries around us (and in the world) have serious issues, in my view (even if you live in an apartment) can you skip a holiday?

cdw057 wrote:

on good advice I copy my post to this thread


Things move fast, very fast in this world; I personally get a bit depressed on all this news. Hungary is still quite safe I think, even if figures might be understated.

......

What I am a bit scared about is that all non-residents will be put in a box and in the end it might even extend to non-Hungarians even if residents. Not a topic right now at all and I feel we are in a way a bit integrated, still ....

At this stage tourists are frowned upon (I would even say especially if they are from Budapest). Really quite sad, but in a way rightfully so. Countries around us (and in the world) have serious issues, in my view (even if you live in an apartment) can you skip a holiday?

My own experiences in my village is that people are pretty good at maintaining their COVID19 discipline.  But we don't get a lot of through traffic that stops - mainly commuter traffic for Budapest. 

I noticed down in Balaton, people were maintaining their distance quite well but the lack of people having their holidays might be the reason.  In that area, the paid beach was empty but the free beach was quite a bit busier.  Might be about money though rather than COVID19.

I noticed that some of the long term businesses have closed down in Balaton.  The remainers are doing better business but even so with depleted numbers, some of them will probably shutdown for good.

I'm thinking about going to the UK to see elderly relatives some of whom are vulnerable.  I'm concerned I won't be able to get back in or I'll be quarantined involuntarily in a government place.  I have no information on how practically it works when passing in and out of the airport.

Nothing to do with Hungary per se but useful to know if Hydroxychloroquine is on your HU pharmacy shopping list (but shouldn't be):

Trump answers questions about Alien DNA/Demons/COVID19 doctor

Fast forward to 07:00 for the killer question and DT's subsequent decision to leave the room - "nobody likes me".  No s**t Donny.

I'm beginning to think I shouldn't read about him.  His insanity is starting to make me feel physically sick.

COVID19 and the airport...how it works

I was in the UK (yellow) during last week.  Leaving is easy with no interest by BUD airport staff, arriving in the UK requires filling in an online form but no-one takes any information from you when you arrive.

I was fully aware that I would be required to quarantine for 14 days on my return as I was there for such as short period - 5 days - and I would have no time to find how to get a COVID19 test.

Arriving back in BUD is hell.  The system is fine until you get to passports and then it falls to bits.  The queues are horrendous - you need to wait there for at least 1.5h. There are no chairs.   The only plus point is that some BUD airport guy brings bottles of water.  In the heat, it was appreciated. I don't know why they didn't have the airconditioning on.

Despite me pre-filling in a form (in English) downloaded from the BUD airport web site, they insist on the Hungarian version form being filled in.  Moreover the border guard I had could not speak English and was so softly spoken I could not understand a word. My hearing isn't good anyway - too many rock concerts and recent diving injury - but in a noisy environment, I might as well have had cotton wool in my ears.   In usual Hungarian style they insist on having a chat with each other rather than spend time working on getting through the process. 

So once the form is filled in and signed, they take a photo of that and the passport.  They then give you a red warning sign to stick on your house and you are free to go.  For me, it took over 3h to get out of the airport and arrive back home.  It would be a lot easier if they would have a form you can fill in online BEFORE you arrive at the airport or even have self-service desks before getting in the passport queue.

The morning after the cops come around to see if you are there and they phone you up to come outside. If you happen to be in the bathroom - as I was - they start putting the sirens on outside your place and attracting the neighbours.

I had no-one available to go outside and tell them to STFU and I'll be there when I've put my clothes back on.   Of course they don't speak English so even though I was telling the cop on the phone I was "furdoszobaban"  they want to physically see you.  I refused to go out until I'd put my clothes on.  If they phoned beforehand to say they were coming in 10 minutes then it would have been a lot easier.   They caused a lot of annoyance and drama.

Mrs Fluffy tells me that the system as informed to the neighbours is that they come to your house TWICE a day and the signal is to do the siren outside so you can show yourself at your front door.  If you don't appear there within ONE minute you can be fined but that seems a bit ridiculous.  Apparently there's no leeway if you are disabled or somehow cannot get to the door in time.    There is NO information on how this system is  supposed to work.   

If you leave your place to get the COVID19 test then you have to tell the cops.

My neighbour happens to know the cops around here so I was given a free pass for telling them to wait. 

It's an unhappy experience.  It feels very oppressive.   I advise no-one to get involved in this and not to leave the country  because coming back without the COVID19 tests is very intrusive.

Update 1st September:

Megye Public Health Inspectors call you and ask questions about you and your health but their language skills are quite low.   They get confused with numbers  and spellings. 

Then they send you by e-mail some long notice in Hungarian with your name and details in it and outlining the fines for transgression - varies from 30K to 5M HUF.  What's it really for? Who knows  here but possibly it's just administrative procedures. I guess it's to cover them that you've been informed.   You'd think if it was sent to travellers it would be explained in other languages - at least in say English, German, Japanese and Chinese. Luckily I have my own translator/interpreter.

The paper with your details is circulated to the Interior ministry, local government and the police.

The police do not turn up twice per day but randomly (only seen them once) but apparently  there's an app for your phone which will track your movements and then they don't come around but monitor you remotely.  Bit like ankle tags used to monitor people on parole etc.  However, one has to wonder if once you are in their system, they could be monitoring you forever and you can perhaps never get rid of the app.   My neighbour said they are monitoring about 80 people in the village - the manpower involved by the police must be substantial.

If during quarantine you want to go for a COVID19 test, then you have to pay HUF 3000 for a paper giving you permission to go.  And you have to  tell the cops you're going and you cannot go by public transport.   That seems a bit ridiculous to charge for the paper.  You'd think they would want people to get tested.  The others in the household would not need testing either.

Considering the cost of the test - HUF 35K+ or so - it's not really worth going.  It'd cost you 70K HUF for two tests plus the 2 x HUF 3000 for admin, a total of 76K HUF.   According to reports, Hungary has said foreign tests are not acceptable. I believed it caused a row with the Austrians. Of course, why Hungary thinks it's got a better testing regime than other EU countries is unclear.  It's not clear either why antigen testing is not acceptable and only PCR.

Testing would shorten your quarantine time by only a few days, if there was nothing urgent to do then one might as well enjoy doing home based stuff.  I always have lots to do so I probably won't bother with the test and I'll just ride out the 14 days.

Update 3rd September:

Received a call from the local government but again, not speaking any foreign languages.   This is a German village!  I offered English and German but no, nothing.  But this morning a letter arrived EXACTLY the same as the one I received by e-mail when I first arrived and of course in Hungarian which would mean nothing to a foreigner.  What a waste of time.   

This one has a slightly bigger red notice of the evil dangers of a suspect (foreign) traveller that lie within.  I have placed mine in a somewhat discreet place but visible if you really look.  It says put it on your door. Well my door is 10m from the gate so only someone with binoculars is going to see the detail. So in compliance but less than in the spirit.  I suppose they think about people in apartments.  But really it should be in at least Hungarian, German and English.

No police so far today.  I was working in the garden so he might driven past, seen me and I might not have noticed.   Makes me wonder if all this is in any way effective.   If there are 80 people being monitored and it takes 5 minutes to get to each location, then that's 400 minutes, 6h 40m to do a complete round.  They can only really do one round a day for one cop.   So if they really wanted to do it twice a day they'd probably need 4 people in the monitoring group.  Of course you never know when they are coming so that'll keep you on your toes and prevent you even going in the bathroom with that 60s sudden death rule!

The upside is that I'm getting a lot of gardening done!

Update @ 21h: police arrived to make sure I was there.  Bit too late for my liking.  They could come at a more reasonable time.   At this rate, it'd be cheaper to subject me to a test rather than carry out this kind of intrusive surveillance.

Updates - visited Saturday 5th at 10.45. Cop just sounded his siren outside. I did get a call this morning from an unknown number about 09.30 but the person didn't speak English.  I suspect it was the cops.   Presumably I'm off the hook for the rest of the day - wow, I could run around maniacally spreading evilness all over the place until they come again! Yay! (not really).

Update - Friday 11th at 06.30  - no police visits since last Saturday.   Read online there were 25,000 people in quarantine in Hungary.   As my quarantine ends Saturday 12th at midnight, I expect one more visit from the police just trying to catch me out! 

Update - Friday 11th at 11.45  -  Cops arrived with their siren!  Tricked me.  It was just a wave and a " Jó Reggelt" and then thanks and "Bye" (in English).   All over Sunday AM.

This is a bit upsetting to hear about. So much control in the hands of a few who could abuse their control on a whim.
I was freaked out enough when they took that temp. gun to our heads.
Seriously thinking twice about getting an eye ema at the eye clinic now.
How many zaps does it take to fry your brain, I sure don't need any extra help doing that!
2 weeks will fly by.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

This is a bit upsetting to hear about. So much control in the hands of a few who could abuse their control on a whim.
I was freaked out enough when they took that temp. gun to our heads.
Seriously thinking twice about getting an eye ema at the eye clinic now.
How many zaps does it take to fry your brain, I sure don't need any extra help doing that!
2 weeks will fly by.

I don't think the temperature gun is going to do anything to you. It's receiving infrared from your head, not sending signals to your brain.   More chance of long term brain damage from a mobile phone or your home microwave. 

I updated my COVID19 experiences above.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Received a call from the local government but again, not speaking any foreign languages.   This is a German village!

No, it's a hungarian village. If you absolutely had to travel between countries during a pandemics, and put people in danger and put a strain on authorities for managing your case, at the very least stop being pretentious and don't whine... 

atomheart wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Received a call from the local government but again, not speaking any foreign languages.   This is a German village!

No, it's a hungarian village. If you absolutely had to travel between countries during a pandemics, and put people in danger and put a strain on authorities for managing your case, at the very least stop being pretentious and don't whine... 

Ooo...fighting talk....OK, I can play...

I don't think I owe any explanation to anyone regarding my travels.  I'm telling people what my experiences of the system is.  You don't have to read if you don't want to. 

But if you really want to complain, write to Brussels about EU free movement which presumably, you also have benefited from at some point in the past.  I'm complying fully with the rules and therefore I am not putting a strain on anyone as the system is built, however imperfectly, to deal with travellers. 

Besides,  that's a bit outlandish to suggest I'm being pretentious at all.  Even if I was, I don't know who I am trying to impress or what about?   

If it's about the German (subject of your post), the locals themselves claim their German ancestry,  publish a village magazine with a German section, the village web site is also in German and they have a German place sign on the outside of the village.  And there's the German  kindergarten.   And just down the road we have the large German war cemetery.

It's just one of many German villages around here - just take a look at the Budaors town hall, what does it say? Varoshaza AND Rathaus!

So I guess the locals' heritage (including Mrs Fluffy's) is just pretentious too?

>Well so much for the borders being closed to foreigners. A number of Brits have travelled to Sopron without any trouble by car. Trains are running normally.

SimCityAT wrote:

>Well so much for the borders being closed to foreigners. A number of Brits have travelled to Sopron without any trouble by car. Trains are running normally.

Interesting.  Presumably they were residents?  Or just day trippers?  I haven't been across the Sopron border for years.  There didn't used to be anyone there really.  Is that the case now or do they have people with the chicane again?

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

>Well so much for the borders being closed to foreigners. A number of Brits have travelled to Sopron without any trouble by car. Trains are running normally.

Interesting.  Presumably they were residents?  Or just day trippers?  I haven't been across the Sopron border for years.  There didn't used to be anyone there really.  Is that the case now or do they have people with the chicane again?

Day trippers, there are Police there ask the reason and let them through.

SimCityAT wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

>Well so much for the borders being closed to foreigners. A number of Brits have travelled to Sopron without any trouble by car. Trains are running normally.

Interesting.  Presumably they were residents?  Or just day trippers?  I haven't been across the Sopron border for years.  There didn't used to be anyone there really.  Is that the case now or do they have people with the chicane again?

Day trippers, there are Police there ask the reason and let them through.

If you look at the FCO advice, it doesn't say they've got any justifiable reason to go there.  Obviously the situation on the ground is something else.  Not unusual around these parts.