Is Hong Kong definitely less attractive to expats?

Hi Anne-Lise,

I lived in Hong Kong from around 1989 to 1995. Back then it was pretty amazing, easy to find a job especially if you spoke Mandarin of Cantonese, and very dynamic and a place to make business. Shopping and eating was fantastic. I established a garment business there, bought some properties and sent three children to the French International School. I also lived in a place called Discovery Bay that had a clubhouse, swimming pools, restaurants, tennis courts and a beach where I kept a couple of windsurfing boards. Life was amazing. Then we left in 1995 because the UK was handing HK back to China in 1997.

I have since visited HK over the years with my latest visit being in 2018. The place has changed so much. It was always very crowded before but now it is much worse. Instead of hearing Cantonese being spoken everywhere, you hear mostly Mandarin as so many people from mainland China have moved here. Before, many people considered the Hong Kong people a little rude but now it is worse. After that last visit I decided to never go there again. I just didn't enjoy being there and couldn't wait to leave.

In the agreement with the UK China was supposed to guarantee 50 years of no change. But people who China consider as "troublesome" tend to disappear and end up in China. I remember that back in the 90's many locals looked forward to no longer being under the UK. Yet, under the UK at least there was democracy.

So the riots have pretty much damaged HK enormously and there is not much trust with China anymore. The Coronvirus situation in HK I am not up to date on, but  I do wonder how the political unrest will continue after the pandemic is over.

With the latest developments in Hong Kong, it has become even more less attractive than before. Democracy seems to be gone. Several countries have ended the special economic arrangement that they had with Hong Kong and have extended the length of visas of Hong Kong citizens substantially as they expect something of an intellectual exodus by those potentially targeted by the China Government or should I say the Communist Party of China. Some of these countries have also ended extradition agreements with Hong Kong.

So as far as being less attractive to expats goes, yes HK will decline somewhat as it loses it's "special" status in trading and becomes just another Chinese city.

I have been living in Hong Kong for ten years and am in total opposition with everything @Shill88 claimed above.

Hong Kong is still an amazing and very active city, and still a fantastic business hub. Some people live in a fantasy where it would be possible for people to live in 2020 the way they did in 1995. That is of course not possible.

Some things they refuse to see:
- Chinese people from the mainland are not only much richer than 25 years ago, they are also authorised to travel when they weren't before. Store assistants speak Mandarin in all luxury stores in Hong Kong, yes. Just like they now do in Paris, London and New York.
- UK-ruled Hong Kong was racist, sexist and not a democracy at all. Hong Kong is a much more international, much more inclusive and much better place to live now, especially if you are not a rich white male.
- "No change for 50 years" was absolutely not the deal, and that would of course have killed the city.

True facts about Hong Kong:
- the city is still rated #1 freest business place in the world
- the GDP was US$140b in 1995 vs. US$365b in 2019 (x2.5)
- air pollution significantly improved during the last 10 years (number of PM2.5 alerts per year reduced by 75% between 2009 and 2019)
- 1/5000th of coronavirus deaths per capita compared to London; 1/2500th compared to New York; 1/1000th compared to Paris; 1/10th compared to Singapore
- the NSL is just the same as what most western countries have. Calling for independence or violence against the Police & government will lead you in prison in Europe too (think Corsican activists, Catalan independantists etc.)

mars2012hk wrote:

I have been living in Hong Kong for ten years and am in total opposition with everything @Shill88 claimed above.

Hong Kong is still an amazing and very active city, and still a fantastic business hub. Some people live in a fantasy where it would be possible for people to live in 2020 the way they did in 1995. That is of course not possible.

Some things they refuse to see:
- Chinese people from the mainland are not only much richer than 25 years ago, they are also authorised to travel when they weren't before. Store assistants speak Mandarin in all luxury stores in Hong Kong, yes. Just like they now do in Paris, London and New York.
- UK-ruled Hong Kong was racist, sexist and not a democracy at all. Hong Kong is a much more international, much more inclusive and much better place to live now, especially if you are not a rich white male.
- "No change for 50 years" was absolutely not the deal, and that would of course have killed the city.

True facts about Hong Kong:
- the city is still rated #1 freest business place in the world
- the GDP was US$140b in 1995 vs. US$365b in 2019 (x2.5)
- air pollution significantly improved during the last 10 years (number of PM2.5 alerts per year reduced by 75% between 2009 and 2019)
- 1/5000th of coronavirus deaths per capita compared to London; 1/2500th compared to New York; 1/1000th compared to Paris; 1/10th compared to Singapore
- the NSL is just the same as what most western countries have. Calling for independence or violence against the Police & government will lead you in prison in Europe too (think Corsican activists, Catalan independantists etc.)

Clearly you have a different opinion about Hong Kong than me. But since Admin has introduced this topic means that they expect differing opinions which is why we do not agree.

I do not live in a fantasy world. I return to HK pretty often either for business or holidays, but not anymore since my last trip. Yes I do compare it since 1989 through till now and I have seen it get less attractive all the time. Yes it may be amazing to those who did not know how it was before. I know it is good for business, I worked in HK and later started a company with an office in Duddell Street in Central and starting buying property. And yes I speak pretty fluent mandarin which enabled me to negotiate deals with China factories. Also, I had three children at the French international school and  I was invited to the French Consul's home each year with my wife as many other french citizens were.

When the UK ruled HK I don't think it was racist at all. Were you living there prior to 1997 or is that just what you heard?

Clearly HK is what it is today, and not as wonderful as it used to be back in the 1980's and 90's (in my opinion). Back in those days anyone could start a business whether local or expatriate. I believe that still stands.

If you think that recent events have not affected democracy for Hong Kong citizens then that's completely your opinion. However, you may have noticed that countries around the world are currently changing their relationship with Hong Kong and will probably soon treat it less as a special territory and more as just another city in China. That means that while your figures may be recent, things will probably change especially the way that the China Government is behaving around the world. Soon, Hong Kong will probably become just another city in China and for many importers around the world there will no longer be any advantage of importing from Hong Kong. They might as well skip HK and just have their goods shipped directly from the main China Ports.

The bottom line is that you have your opinion, I have mine. We need to allow members to express their opinion freely without being attacked for what they believe. Just lay out your opinions and tell everyone why you love Hong Kong, why you feel it is wonderfully democratic and how China behaves so well and how you feel that all the recent events have made Hong Kong better. Again, I remind you that this question was introduced by Expat.com Admin because they know this is an issue and they want to encourage people with opinions to speak up.

As for comparing HK to the Basques, Corsicans or Catalans is nowhere near the same thing. Those regions want independence and self rule. Hong Kong does not want independence from China. They just do not want people disappearing into China and never being heard of again.

Look I understand in your job you really need to downplay any negative aspects about Hong Kong. I do understand that. But I am not in the same position as you so I can speak freely.