'loss of face' in Vietnam

You probably have seen the event that happened in Thailand with the military person arguing with his superior then killing him and going on a shooting rampage at a mall - I did not learn the outcome of this event, however to me it seems like a classic loss of face moment between the military shooter and his boss.

How prevalent is loss of face in Vietnam - of course not to this degree.

One difference I have seen here that I've not seen in China is that people, mainly suppliers, will admit to me when they are wrong, will be late, or are having problems or don't know how to fix something.

Now, I'm sure some of this is relationship based and developed over the last year since they know that I trust and support them and that we are in this together and some of this is because I'm a technical person, not just a customer, and can actually help them fix things.

stevenjb2020 :

You probably have seen the event that happened in Thailand with the military person arguing with his superior then killing him and going on a shooting rampage at a mall - I did not learn the outcome of this event, however to me it seems like a classic loss of face moment between the military shooter and his boss.

How prevalent is loss of face in Vietnam - of course not to this degree.

People going crazy, military or otherwise, occurs all over the world. I do not think it's loss of face, more anger . . .. Some people have enough already and crack.

I hear that loss of face is a huge thing in Thailand. I'm sure losing face is undesirable everywhere but Thailand is a major deal.

When you say "face" do you mean "maturity"?

Matt_2 :

When you say "face" do you mean "maturity"?

Maturity is a factor. It seems like the loss of face in Thailand is a deficit in a coping mechanism with conflicts.

There can be a 'loss of face' in most cultures. People feel they have been disrespected or wronged by someone or a segment of society. My point of the post, is this a part of the Vietnamese culture and to what extent - just curious.

stevenjb2020 :

You probably have seen the event that happened in Thailand with the military person arguing with his superior then killing him and going on a shooting rampage at a mall - I did not learn the outcome of this event, however to me it seems like a classic loss of face moment between the military shooter and his boss.

How prevalent is loss of face in Vietnam - of course not to this degree.

In Vietnam, *my experience* tells me that the loss of face is linked to the expectations imposed on people by their families and the prevailing cultural norms.

As Ciambella has noted previously in a different thread, parents of children in Vietnam are driven by a belief similar to the great Yoda quote:

"We are what they grow beyond”

So the achievements of the children not only please and satisfy the parents; the achievements actually serve to be a fulfillment of that which the parents have always hoped to become.

I'm probably not saying that correctly (Ciambella is invited to correct me).

Anyway, imagine the huge pressure to not only reach for the highest possible success, but to also have the responsibility of helping the parents complete their own identity.

Now, take the example of the shooter:

If he wasn't simply nuts and was being driven by a sense of having failed or being disrespected, how much more would be his angst if he felt the incident was also a condemnation of his parents?

Personally, I recently had an interaction with a Vietnamese woman that could possibly been attributable to her desire to save face.

She was very adamant about not having certain simple details about our friendship shared with friends in common.

It seemed she was sensitive about her failure to achieve a permanent relationship with me.

However, after talking with one of our mutual friends, it was agreed that perhaps the woman was motivated by a desire to deceive, and didn't want all of us to be able to compare notes, so to speak.

It will be interesting to hear how others respond to your post.

I've certainly noticed a tendency among the Vietnamese to often refuse to be pinned down to any definite answer, even about trivial matters. Or to accept any kind of correction. The question is simply ignored and the subject instantly changed.

"Do you like the red one or the blue one?"
-"What did you have for breakfast?"

Or

"We'll meet at noon."
-"OK, 11."
"Noon is at 12."
-"Why is there so much socola in your fridge?"

Not always though.

"Crab or shrimp?"
-"ARE YOU INSANE? CRAB!"

:unsure

I try to view it as endearing.

Maybe it's exacerbated from the POV of foreigners, perhaps some Vietnamese are more worried about appearing ignorant in front of someone they mistakenly believe is higher up some ladder or other than themselves.

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