Nationwide cracking down on Corruptions and Drunk Driving!

Very few are caught. Police driving BMWs is a good place to start actually doing something.

One of the greatest things about Nam is that you can get plastered and get on your scooter and ride like the wind!  if you do get signalled to pull over, a 200k handshake will do the trick.

No victim = no crime and that is how it should be.

MEGAMAGA wrote:

One of the greatest things about Nam is that you can get plastered and get on your scooter and ride like the wind!  if you do get signalled to pull over, a 200k handshake will do the trick.

No that is exactly wrong. 
You haven't read the news about the new law.
New drunk driving fines to slow beer market growth

MEGAMAGA wrote:

No victim = no crime and that is how it should be.

Wrong again     if there is an accident and that is what the law is to prevent.  A step in the right direction to clean up the wild west.

MEGAMAGA wrote:

Nam

And it's not called Nam. Since 1975.     Sheesh.
Oh I see you are already BANNED. Makes sense.

I do believe they have over-reacted on two things.  First is a zero tolerance ban.  This has made it extremely difficult already for me when we have company functions. Entertaining is a big part of business interactions.  To not be able to have a beer or two at dinner has caused all sorts of scheduling problems.  Just last night we were trying to get a grab to go to a company year end party in Bien Hoa.  After 30 minutes we gave up and my work associate drove but could not even enjoy one beer for fear of the new rule.

The other new law about not being able to drive a car or motorbike that your name isn't on the blue card is going to cause more problems.  There have already been cases of husbands or wives being ticketed for driving a vehicle registered in a spouse's name.  They will have to change this law.  It's totally impractical.  My motorcycle is in my wife's name.  She can't even ride it because it's 390cc and she doesn't have an A2 license.

So now a husband has a drink, lets wife drive home, but moto is in husband's name so she still gets ticketed???

Oh, and if anyone thinks this will cut down on corruption I think they need to think again.

Consider this:

The new drinking law is three levels, anywhere from 8M to 32M VND fine and 6 to 22 months loss of license.

Right now typically coffee money is half of the fine.  But if someone is facing a year or two loss of license they may very well beg the cop to pay full fine to keep their license.  It may very well drive UP the corruption because the loss of license portion is so severe.  Why would anyone assume that cops won't start coffee money-ing (yes, that's a new word) drinking fines?  I think they will enforce through TET and then go back to the same old thing.  They could generate a full month's salary on one released minor drinking violator.  I think the police are salivating at these two new laws as huge personal revenue generators.

In Thailand I have seen police everywhere, all the time. Pulling people over for ( tea) money.
In Vietnam, I have seen them in hcmc and Hanoi., but to be quite honest, and I am really jogging my memory, I have rarely seen police, and on the few occasions, they were waving tourists and tourist buses thru the roadblocks.even my friends visiting from neighbouring countries have remarked many times , where are the police?

Canman62 wrote:

In Thailand I have seen police everywhere, all the time. Pulling people over for ( tea) money.
In Vietnam, I have seen them in hcmc and Hanoi., but to be quite honest, and I am really jogging my memory, I have rarely seen police, and on the few occasions, they were waving tourists and tourist buses thru the roadblocks.even my friends visiting from neighbouring countries have remarked many times , where are the police?

Yesterday I was in Saigon D1 (from outside direction Ben Luc).
I passed five major police checkpoints in Binh Chanh on the QL1A and Nguyen Van Linh roads. Some of them with trailers to tow away motorbikes.
Before TET this is normal.
But even during the year there are always police checkpoints for motorbikes in Binh Chanh on the street Nguyen Van Linh.

Blue Card.   So there's a law that only the rider registered on the Blue Card can ride the bike.

How do the Bike rentals operate legally since there is rarely paperwork signed by either party,,it's just cash handover in the shop, hotel, apartment bldg whatever.    The blue card  is held by the rental shop .

Too many avenues for “negotiation “ here , which is what they like.

SteinNebraska wrote:

I do believe they have over-reacted on two things.  First is a zero tolerance ban.  This has made it extremely difficult already for me when we have company functions. Entertaining is a big part of business interactions.  To not be able to have a beer or two at dinner has caused all sorts of scheduling problems.  Just last night we were trying to get a grab to go to a company year end party in Bien Hoa.  After 30 minutes we gave up and my work associate drove but could not even enjoy one beer for fear of the new rule.

The other new law about not being able to drive a car or motorbike that your name isn't on the blue card is going to cause more problems.  There have already been cases of husbands or wives being ticketed for driving a vehicle registered in a spouse's name.  They will have to change this law.  It's totally impractical.  My motorcycle is in my wife's name.  She can't even ride it because it's 390cc and she doesn't have an A2 license.

So now a husband has a drink, lets wife drive home, but moto is in husband's name so she still gets ticketed???

Welcome to the never thought out laws of Vietnam.

Years ago if you were riding a bike not in your name you would have had to contact the person on the blue card and get them to come and talk with the police. Seeing that getting a bike in our names is a major drama for the average expat, how are we supposed to get around legally. They want us to get licensed legally, but then say you cant ride a bike as its not in your name. Total idiots.

This crap happens every 5 years or so and shows how inept the law makers are in VN

But how do they handle this with a poorer family that might have one moto and three people driving it?

Even in my wife's case her moto is in her brother in laws name since she wanted it registered in HCMC.  She can't ride her own moto and I can't ride mine since it is in my wife's name?

colinoscapee wrote:

Seeing that getting a bike in our names is a major drama for the average expat, how are we supposed to get around legally. They want us to get licensed legally, but then say you cant ride a bike as its not in your name. Total idiots.

It's not only expats.  For locals they have to register the bike in their official "home town".  The first two numbers on the plate indicate the province.  In HCMC I would estimate that maybe as much as 50% of the population from 18 to 30 is officially in their parents red book in another province.  Most may be a day's ride away but some come from as far as Hanoi.  To register the bike they have to actually drive it home.  Can you imagine a college student or young professional from Hanoi buying a used bike in HCM and then driving it to Hanoi and back just to register it and have the blue card in their own name?  Even if they can get by with a small "donation" and just bring the papers home, they still have to make a plane trip to register the bike.

THIGV wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Seeing that getting a bike in our names is a major drama for the average expat, how are we supposed to get around legally. They want us to get licensed legally, but then say you cant ride a bike as its not in your name. Total idiots.

It's not only expats.  For locals they have to register the bike in their official "home town".  The first two numbers on the plate indicate the province.  In HCMC I would estimate that maybe as much as 50% of the population from 18 to 30 is officially in their parents red book in another province.  Most may be a day's ride away but some come from as far as Hanoi.  To register the bike they have to actually drive it home.  Can you imagine a college student or young professional from Hanoi buying a used bike in HCM and then driving it to Hanoi and back just to register it and have the blue card in their own name?  Even if they can get by with a small "donation" and just bring the papers home, they still have to make a plane trip to register the bike.

I think you missed the point here, the average expat can't register a bike or car in their name, a local can.

colinoscapee wrote:

I think you missed the point here, the average expat can't register a bike or car in their name, a local can.

I didn't miss the point.  I just was pointing out that the system is not particularly easy for Vietnamese either. 

I don't remember which it is but I know that there is a 2 number code for foreigners, so registering must be possible in theory at least.  It is probably difficult to get through the red tape so I guess that the "average" expat can't do it is correct.  Also, I have read on this forum that having the foreigner code right on your license can make you more likely to be stopped.  I am not sure if the last assertion is really true as most Vietnamese traffic stops are road block style, from the front, where the police can't see the plates in the back until after they have stopped you anyway.

The list of 2 number provincial codes was posted by Jaitch but as he is totally banned, I can't seem to track it down.

SteinNebraska wrote:

But how do they handle this with a poorer family that might have one moto and three people driving it?

Even in my wife's case her moto is in her brother in laws name since she wanted it registered in HCMC.  She can't ride her own moto and I can't ride mine since it is in my wife's name?

Welcome to the land of ever changing laws, the lawmakers in Ha Noi are of complete and utter incompetence.

Ah well.....just another kick in the guts for Vietnam's global “ease of doing business” index.

Another own goal.

As for the alcohol situation, you'd think a .05 BAC would be reasonable & above that your in strife.  I'm not a big drinker, maybe 2 tiger beers with a meal & that's it.    Just have to get used to Soda water with my steak now. 🤓

THIGV wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

I think you missed the point here, the average expat can't register a bike or car in their name, a local can.

I didn't miss the point.  I just was pointing out that the system is not particularly easy for Vietnamese either. 

I don't remember which it is but I know that there is a 2 number code for foreigners, so registering must be possible in theory at least.  It is probably difficult to get through the red tape so I guess that the "average" expat can't do it is correct.  Also, I have read on this forum that having the foreigner code right on your license can make you more likely to be stopped.  I am not sure if the last assertion is really true as most Vietnamese traffic stops are road block style, from the front, where the police can't see the plates in the back until after they have stopped you anyway.

The list of 2 number provincial codes was posted by Jaitch but as he is totally banned, I can't seem to track it down.

The system of registering in your name is a real drama, its an NN plate that you receive as a foreigner. Its not worth the drama, I have looked into it. At least a local can buy in their name with very little problems.

The other point is that a VN license only lasts as long as your visa and has to be renewed upon each new visa. This is why so many expats dont get licenses as the government has made it too complicated.

THIGV wrote:

I don't remember which it is but I know that there is a 2 number code for foreigners, so registering must be possible in theory at least. 

The list of 2 number provincial codes was posted by Jaitch but as he is totally banned, I can't seem to track it down.

I've never been able to search for past posts (even mine) on this site, but here's my list:

For individual / businesses (not governmental related), it's NN (Nước Ngoài). 

NN, NG (Ngoại Giao), QT (Quốc Tế), CV (Công Vụ) are temporary import for re-export - meaning that when the working time expires, the owners have to either take the cars with them or resale and replated.

Nationality of the registerers:

011 UK
026 India
041 Angiery
061 Belgium
066 Poland
121 Cuba
156 Canada
166 Cambodia
191 Germany
206 Denmark
296-297 USA
301 Netherlands
331 Italia
336 Israel
346 Laos
364 Austria
376 Myanmar
381 Mongolia
441 Russia
446 Japan
456 New Zealand
501 Australia
506 French
521 Finland
546-547-548-549 African Nations
566 Czech
581 Swede
601 China
606 Thailand
626 Switzerland
631 North Korea
636 Korea
691 Singapore
731 Slovakia
888 Taiwan

The first two digit code is the city, the next two is the category of the owner's presence in VN, the next 3 is the nationality of the owner.

The list of codes for the cities / provinces is very long, but I'll post if if you need it.

Ciambella wrote:

THIGV wrote:

I don't remember which it is but I know that there is a 2 number code for foreigners, so registering must be possible in theory at least. 

The list of 2 number provincial codes was posted by Jaitch but as he is totally banned, I can't seem to track it down.

I've never been able to search for past posts (even mine) on this site, but here's my list:

For individual / businesses (not governmental related), it's NN (Nước Ngoài). 

NN, NG (Ngoại Giao), QT (Quốc Tế), CV (Công Vụ) are temporary import for re-export - meaning that when the working time expires, the owners have to either take the cars with them or resale and replated.

Nationality of the registerers:

011 UK
026 India
041 Angiery
061 Belgium
066 Poland
121 Cuba
156 Canada
166 Cambodia
191 Germany
206 Denmark
296-297 USA
301 Netherlands
331 Italia
336 Israel
346 Laos
364 Austria
376 Myanmar
381 Mongolia
441 Russia
446 Japan
456 New Zealand
501 Australia
506 French
521 Finland
546-547-548-549 African Nations
566 Czech
581 Swede
601 China
606 Thailand
626 Switzerland
631 North Korea
636 Korea
691 Singapore
731 Slovakia
888 Taiwan

The first two digit code is the city, the next two is the category of the owner's presence in VN, the next 3 is the nationality of the owner.

The list of codes for the cities / provinces is very long, but I'll post if if you need it.

I noticed that many 50cc bikes run a AC,AD and AT plate. Very helpful when police are looking at pulling someone over for a donation.

I had read a couple of articles on this and it kept referring to driving drunk in cars and motorbikes but they never went beyond that.  Even on the official government website it referred to drunk driving for motorbikes.

The law did get tightened for cars and now they are subject to fines and loss of license at any alcohol level.  What most of the articles don't mention is there is a floor for alcohol level for motorbikes.  I found a few references to this.  Here's one.  Bold is mine.  So, you can still have a beer or two and be legal on a motorbike.  I'm not condoning drunk driving but going out to dinner with my wife and having a beer or a glass of wine isn't going to be a Grab ride requirement any longer.

Gov't increases sanctions for drunk driving
Updated 09:46, Wednesday, 01/01/2020 (GMT+7)
The Government has issued Decree No. 100/2019/ND-CP on administrative sanctions for road traffic and rail transport violations, applicable since January 1, 2020.
Under the Decree, drunk car drivers shall be fined up to VND 30-40 million (about US$ 1,300-US$ 1,818) instead of the current fine of about US$814, if tests show that alcohol content exceed 80mg per 100 ml of blood or 0.4mg per liter of breath.

In addition their licenses shall be revoked for 22-24 months compared to just 4-6 months at present.

Meanwhile, drunk motorcyclists shall be imposed fines of VND 6-8 million (about US$ 272-US$ 363) and their licenses shall be suspended for 22-24 months.

Drunk cyclists shall also be fined up to VND 600,000 (about US$27).

Earlier last June, the National Assembly passed a landmark bill on preventing harmful effects of alcohol, which includes blanket ban on driving after drinking for all types of vehicles.

The Law, which reflects Viet Nam's tougher stance on drink-driving, will take effect on January 1, 2020.

Currently, the Southeast Asian country only bans automobile drivers from having any level of breath or blood alcohol concentration.

Motorcyclists are allowed to have up to 50 mg of alcohol in 100 ml of blood or 0.25 ml of alcohol in one liter of breath.

The new law will also ban advertising alcoholic beverages on television and other media platforms between 6:00 pm and 9:00 pm, with the exception of programs relayed from foreign broadcasters.

Advertising alcoholic drinks to persons under 18 years of age or employing underage actors in alcohol adverts are strictly banned under the new law.

No advertisements are allowed for drinks with an alcohol content of 15 percent or more.

Viet Nam is the biggest beer market in Southeast Asia, consuming nearly 4 billion liters in 2017. The country spends on average $3.4 billion a year on alcohol.

Vietnamese consumed 8.9 liters of pure alcohol per person in 2017, surpassing Japan (7.9 liters), China (7.4 liters) and India (5.9 liters).

Official data shows there were over 4,000 traffic accidents in the country in the first quarter of 2019, leading to 1,905 deaths. Drunk driving was to blame in 274 accidents.

When I explained the above to my wife she told me to not believe it and that they would ticket me anyway.  "Police catch you" is a popular catch phrase in our house.  I couldn't get her to understand an "alcohol limit" and she shut down that conversation so I guess it's still Grab for dinner for the foreseeable future...

The full decree is at the link below but it is a PDF so I can't use google translate to translate it.  If someone that can read Vietnamese can find the section about motorbike driving and drinking it would be helpful to the group to know what the actual law says.

Inside the link you can download the decree where it says 11.signed.pdf

http://vanban.chinhphu.vn/portal/page/p … _id=198733

SteinNebraska wrote:

The full decree is at the link below but it is a PDF so I can't use google translate to translate it.  If someone that can read Vietnamese can find the section about motorbike driving and drinking it would be helpful to the group to know what the actual law says.

Inside the link you can download the decree where it says 11.signed.pdf

http://vanban.chinhphu.vn/portal/page/p … _id=198733

One thing you haven't allowed for is that laws are interpreted and enforced differently from area to area.

THIGV wrote:

I don't remember which it is but I know that there is a 2 number code for foreigners, so registering must be possible in theory at least...

...The list of 2 number provincial codes was posted by Jaitch but as he is totally banned, I can't seem to track it down.

EXCERPT from 2nd post in THIS thread:

Jaitch wrote:

I thought you might be interested in knowing the number plate/tag codes.

List of Registration codes for the Provinces of VietNam

Code    Province
11    Cao Bang
12    Lang Son
14    Quang Ninh
15/16    Hai Phong
17    Thai Binh
18    Nam Dinh
19    Phu Tho
20    Thai Nguyen
21    Yen Bai
22    Tuyen Quang
23    Ha Giang
24    Lao Cai
25    Lai Chau
26    Son La
27    Dien Bien
28    Hoa Binh
29/33+40 Ha Noi
34    Hai Duong
35    Ninh Binh
36    Thanh Hoa
37    Nghe An
38    Ha Tinh
43    Da Nang
47    Dak Lak
48    Dak Nong
49    Lam Dong
50/59    Ho Chi Minh City
60/39    Dong Nai
61    Binh Duong
62    Long An
63    Tien Giang
64    Vinh Long
65    Can Tho
66    Dong Thap
67    An Giang
68    Kien Giang
69    Ca Mau
70    Tay Ninh
71    Ben Tre
72    Ba Ria-Vung Tau
73    Quang Binh
74    Quang Tri
75    Thua Thien Hue
76    Quang Ngai
77    Binh Dinh
78    Phu Yen
79    Khanh Hoa
80    Central Government and Ministry of Public Security**
81    Gia Lai
82    Kon Tum
83    Soc Trang
84    Tra Vinh
85    Ninh Thuan
86    Binh Thuan
88    Vinh Phuc
89    Hung Yen
90    Ha Nam
92    Quang Nam
93    Binh Phuoc
94    Bac Lieu
95    Hau Giang
97    Bac Kan
98    Bac Giang
99    Bac Ninh

The registration format is PP-NN-LLL for vehicles, and PP-NLNNN or where the sequence is exhausted PP-NLNNNNN. P is the province designator; N is numeric and L is letter.

Commencing  in 2012, blue strip with V will be added to left of the plate in compliance with the new ASEAN vehicle licencing agreement.

Code variations are used to differentiate between classes of ownership. AA,AB,AC,AD, etc., in lieu of provincial designators means Ministry of Defence (red plate); NN after provincial codes means ownership by foreign interests; NG after provincial code in RED means diplomatic/NGO plate; LD after province codes means companies with 100% foreign investment; A,B,C after province code means local governments (blue plate).

Red and Blue plates ignore most traffic rules, as do NG plates.

** Public Security also have many vehicles with regular numbers for their 'under cover' work.

I think we should be looking at these changes through the eyes of those who will benefit the most = Communists government employees.  You can complain all you want, yes, it seems idiotic to mandate the driver be the person on the blue card, so what happens?  Both locals and foreigners are going to get ripped off even more and the police don't care, period.  They are laughing all the way to the bank because what can people do?  Not much.  I had one thought, is it possible to list multiple people on the blue card similar to the USA, we  can have multiple people listed on car titles.

The intoxication change is not much different. Yes, in theory it is supposed to reduce drunk driving, but my wife is telling me she now sees people on youtube complaining that the police are stopping them and demanding payment for driving under the influence, even if they drink grape juice (because grapes allegedly contain alcohol). 

It is the way Communism works, sounds great on paper, but in reality, a different story.

SteinNebraska wrote:

The other new law about not being able to drive a car or motorbike that your name isn't on the blue card is going to cause more problems.  There have already been cases of husbands or wives being ticketed for driving a vehicle registered in a spouse's name.  They will have to change this law.  It's totally impractical.

My information below, as always, is direct from the horse's mouth, not a hearsay.  This time, it's from both the highest and second highest ranking of police force in two different districts in Saigon.  Even though I'm using the quote/unquote marks, the words below are not taken verbatim, but I promise you they're 100% accurate right now as they were earlier today when I asked the question and was given the answer:

"No police will harass either a local or a foreigner from driving a motorbike that doesn't belong to him. The question of ownership will not come up. In Vietnam, owner and operator are rarely one and the same. This will only become an issue if the driver is involved in an accident, but not during regular police stops."

SteinNebraska wrote:

The full decree is at the link below but it is a PDF so I can't use google translate to translate it.  If someone that can read Vietnamese can find the section about motorbike driving and drinking it would be helpful to the group to know what the actual law says.

Inside the link you can download the decree where it says 11.signed.pdf

http://vanban.chinhphu.vn/portal/page/p … _id=198733

Will do that in a couple days when/if I feel better. Under influence of medication and painful medical treatments all day today and tomorrow.

Ciambella wrote:

This will only become an issue if the driver is involved in an accident, but not during regular police stops."

I actually heard this part yesterday.  So, again, wife has an accident on husband's motorbike and there will be an issue?

SteinNebraska wrote:

I actually heard this part yesterday.  So, again, wife has an accident on husband's motorbike and there will be an issue?

Yes, but not issue issue. Not a fine of any kind if husband shows up and says he gives wife the authority to use the bike.  But if he's her ex who gave her the bike with the belief that she would take care of the title, and he told the police the bike has not been his for a long time, then yes, it'd now become an issue.

That law, as it was explained to me today, targets people who sold and bought motorbikes without paying tax for title transfer.  Foreigners who buy used bikes that have not seen the blue card for an eon are also targeted for their ignoring of the law.

Ciambella wrote:

That law, as it was explained to me today, targets people who sold and bought motorbikes without paying tax for title transfer.  Foreigners who buy used bikes that have not seen the blue card for an eon are also targeted for their ignoring of the law.

OK that makes complete sense.  Thank you for the clarification.

"That law, as it was explained to me today, targets people who sold and bought motorbikes without paying tax for title transfer."

When we went to the notary to sell our first car, the buyer said that he wanted to buy the car without changing the vehicle registration to his name.
This means that after the selling the car would be remaining redeemed in my wife's name (until the buyer resells it, that's what I understood).
For me this was unusual and I refused.
My wife (who didn't understand everything in detail) said that this is probably the usual procedure to save the buyer the tax for a new vehicle registration.
Because I turned it down, we drew up a new contract and the buyer gave us 30 million less for the car.

I think this is exactly what the new rules are designed to prevent.


Update:
I forgot something else.
As I had understood it, the first contract (which I had rejected) would have been a kind of car rental contract where the car would automatically become the property of the "lender" after a certain time.
The whole amount for the car was already transferred at the notary by e-banking and so it would be irrelevant for the seller what happens afterwards.

Two things seem to work against the average Vietnamese wanting to transfer the "blue card" are the fact that no liability accrues to the registered owner of the vehicle in an accident, and not having a way to differentiate between registration and final ownership if a car or bike is sold on a payment agreement.  If sellers were liable for damages in any accident caused by the buyer, you can be sure that they would be clamoring at committee meetings for a change forcing new owners to register.  As it is, it's "out of sight, out of mind."

THIGV wrote:

Two things seem to work against the average Vietnamese wanting to transfer the "blue card" are the fact that no liability accrues to the registered owner of the vehicle in an accident, and not having a way to differentiate between registration and final ownership if a car or bike is sold on a payment agreement.  If sellers were liable for damages in any accident caused by the buyer, you can be sure that they would be clamoring at committee meetings for a change forcing new owners to register.  As it is, it's "out of sight, out of mind."

If you do it correctly its not a problem. The buyer and the seller, plus the vehicle, must front up at the govt office for the ownership to be transferred legally.

colinoscapee wrote:

If you do it correctly its not a problem. The buyer and the seller, plus the vehicle, must front up at the govt office for the ownership to be transferred legally.

What if the seller's hometown and the bike registration are in Ca Mau (69)  the buyer's hometown is in Cao Bang Province (11), and they are both living in HCMC(59)?  What government office do they go to? 

Of course this entire situation could go away if people were allowed to register autos and bikes at their place of temporary residence.

THIGV wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

If you do it correctly its not a problem. The buyer and the seller, plus the vehicle, must front up at the govt office for the ownership to be transferred legally.

What if the seller's hometown and the bike registration are in Ca Mau (69)  the buyer's hometown is in Cao Bang Province (11), and they are both living in HCMC(59)?  What government office do they go to? 

Of course this entire situation could go away if people were allowed to register autos and bikes at their place of temporary residence.

I actually looked into this, I think this is what I remember. For a start, Saigon police wouldnt want to do the change of registration due to the bike being registered in Ca Mau, they would need the bike to be changed to Saigon plates.

Most locals wont buy a vehicle that is not from their home provence or place they are legally registered. If the person is living in Saigon, they may wait and buy a vehicle when next in their hometown or register themselves in Saigon. There are many variables, at the end of the day its nearly Tet and cash is being sought.

Ciambella may be the best one to clarify this situation.