Do you ever stop being a foreigner?

Hi Anne-Lise,

Whatever the reasons for his expatriation, we still have unconscious links with the country of origin.

I am part of expatriation professionals because of my father's job as well as mine.

I discovered fantastic places and others really glaucous ... In some countries, I wanted to settle but at one time or another, there was always the little voice that said "You have this in Belgium but not here ... "

We can invest as much as possible in a social relation. But there will always come a time when ...

The worst thing about all this is that when you return to your home country, after two to three weeks of stay, you start to choke and want to go home in your country of expatriation.

Expatriation can be a great human adventure but ...

I never felt like a foreigner when I lived in New York. Perhaps because there are millions of other foreigners in New York from all parts of the world. I always felt like a foreigner in North Carolina, though the locals were never unfriendly. I am new to Taiwan and still unsure how I feel. I think I will always be treated like a foreigner here because I do not look Chinese and currently speak almost none of the language.

Foreigner or not foreigner? Probably I am a foreigner everywhere, so I do not ask myself the question. I am just a roamer. I know my roots, they have been well defined when I have interacted with other cultures. But I have absorbed a lot from everywhere and has shaped me in a way, creating a sort of "fusion". I am me... even if I do not fit properly in any place... I am a foreigner (but I adapt), so what? I am a roamer

Roaming Eva wrote:

Foreigner or not foreigner? Probably I am a foreigner everywhere, so I do not ask myself the question. I am just a roamer. I know my roots, they have been well defined when I have interacted with other cultures. But I have absorbed a lot from everywhere and has shaped me in a way, creating a sort of "fusion". I am me... even if I do not fit properly in any place... I am a foreigner (but I adapt), so what? I am a roamer

Where have you roamed? Anywhere interesting?

I started off a foreigner, became a migrant, was called an outlander, and settled on expat.

Karl Valentin, a German comedian, said:
“Everybody is a foreigner - almost everywhere!”
(or does this translate to “almost anywhere”? Please correct my English!)

beppi wrote:

Karl Valentin, a German comedian, said:
“Everybody is a foreigner - almost everywhere!”
(or does this translate to “almost anywhere”? Please correct my English!)

I'd agree on some levels, geopolitically perhaps we would be bound to our place of origin, or rather birth as both terms differs in my understanding. But as a species as far as we know it we came from the same place so trully beyond the social construct we are never foreign to anyplace, and I hope that one day we will overcome our limited thinking capabilities in this matter as when you mix it with our different traits it becomes a problem. Answering the question tho, if you are morally and socially fair being then you are never a foreigner. But that's only my humble opinion. Have a great day!

From the context of a foreigner adjusting to a foreign place and embracing the culture and being morally upright is something one should strive for but we are talking way too deep here. Unless we know the person we will always be racially profiling people. That's how human beings are. That's how it works isn't it? Not that it should be but that's what it is.

I respectfully disagree; we are not made this way, it's a matter of knowledge acquired through education, culture and social interactions, passed down from generation to generation that works as default filter for our own interactions. I believe we do have a choice, at least to some degree - not to go even deeper into complexity of human consciousness. I do understand that majority of us is like you described but we also have a choice whether to accept reality as it is or to question it. And I don't think that's too deep, I don't believe there is any line drawn for  how far one can take this kind of contemplations.

As we shape the reality around ourselves, we should do it to the best of our abilities, constantly improving and making sure our perspective is as wide as possible. Have a great day!

Dear David

You make sense. But when you walk around in a city what do You see. Whites, Asian, blacks Arabs. Sometimes we are better at it. We can identify and differentiate between filippinos and Chinese or even Chinese and japs or Koreans. Same with black. We can see and tell oh that guy is Kenyan. That one seem to be Somalian. And white- she looks like a Russian, this one must be Brit. That loudness- must be American. We can even do religious profiling. That's what we do all the time. We just keep profiling race religion communities. We don't know the person walking across us. We just profile him/her. I understand we can be better human and we should strive for it. But subconsciously we are doing exactly the opposite of what we are taught not to do.

Well when I walk in the city, if I do, I see people, truthfully from different places but that profiling you are speaking off its only on informative levels. I don't have enough information until I do, and as you said yourself "until you know someone", that's exactly the point. Comparing things is one of the ways our brains aquire certain information, it's just the process. All the examples you used are just the information that you have that are linked to certain situations - it goes far more complex here, you do get the point tho. At most it's very personal experience, as well as it's inaccurate. I'd leave subconscious part out of it due the lack of actual expertise, I'd be wild guessing. But I can say one thing  whatever is happening below surface works based on different rules. Choices we make on counciousnes levels fuel our reasoning, shaping morality, making us who we are, and form our way of thinking. But again mine is simply different perspective, that's all it is.
Have a good night.

I have felt like a foreigner since the first day I arrived in Taipei. The culture, customs, language and smells are very foreign to me.

One weekend I was walking toward the large intersection of Zhongxiao and Fuxing. It suddenly became quite crowded. This is always a popular site, with a major shopping centre and metro hub. This weekend was beyond anything I had ever seen here. When lights turned from red to green, no one crossed the street. This was unusual as most cross before the light is green.

I wondered why everyone was just standing and waiting, until I noticed a large group of people walking in the middle of the street. Walking in the street is common in Taiwan, but this was a parade of people.

I soon realised that I had stumbled upon a gay pride parade. It was amazing. Despite being in East Asia, the crowd was enthusiastic. I sensed no hatred from anyone. I cannot say how many thousands of people were marching, but they all appeared happy. The audience was cheering and photographing with smart phones and real cameras. It was a beautiful sight.

For the first time, I felt comfortable in Taipei.

I liked living in Taiwan, despite the language difficulty - friendly people, good food, reasonable prices and great nature.
And yes, they are among the most open-minded and tolerant in the whole of Asia!

I think for me the fact will never change no matter how immersed in it I become. I don't see it as a negative thing, though.

beppi wrote:

I liked living in Taiwan, despite the language difficulty - friendly people, good food, reasonable prices and great nature.
And yes, they are among the most open-minded and tolerant in the whole of Asia!

I have yet to experience the nature, as I am in the middle of the largest city, but I know it is out there. One day I shall take a bus to Yangmingshan or Yilan.

Khalida.UNC wrote:

I have yet to experience the nature, as I am in the middle of the largest city, but I know it is out there. One day I shall take a bus to Yangmingshan or Yilan.

Off-topic, but I want to add: Yangmingshan and Yilan are overrun and overrated, but unfortunately all the better places (like mountain scenery rivalling the alps, aboriginal villages where Chinese is rarely spoken, wild hotsprings reachable only after an hour-long climb, ...) are difficult to reach by public transport. I bought an old car for that purpose. But you can try the wonderful Alishan railway and on the top trek away from the masses.
Have a nice time - I wish I was there now!

Anne-Lise wrote:

Please send us your thoughts on the topic. Do you feel at home after having been in a country for a long period of time?

No, at least in Sweden.

You can be a well integrated immigrant, that's the maximum level you can reach. Maybe in your mind you may sometimes can feel the place where you are as your home but in your fellow citizens eyes you always look like an immigrant. When you are an immigrant! yes word alone speaks for itself, that means you are not at your home, you are from somewhere else, where that somewhere is your home.

(Unless you are in a country like Israel where everyone look different from everyone, the whole world is there so no one knows if you are a foreigner or a countrymen as long as you speak Hebrew or Arabic, for that matter only English also could work for sometime thanks to aliyah concept. Maybe there are also some other countries like this and I haven't yet lived in Israel for long time to be 100% sure about that matter either)

We have a co worker who is from Denmark who has lived in Sweden for at about 30 years (at least more than my 23 years in Sweden) but we call him for Dane, it's easier to say that than his name because he is better known as the Dane. So you see Sweden is not his home. You don't see any difference from his appearance, just another Scandinavian from a distance of 3-4 hours of a journey from where he was born and they all look almost the same but he has his own Danish dialect so he is the Dane who is not at his home.

In Sri Lanka Tamil people lived for generations since the history of the country as we know it, some came later, more than 250 of years ago but for some Sinhalese people they are immigrants, that means they are from somewhere else and Sri Lanka is not their home. You all know what happened because of those "some Sinhalese".

Since I'm Sinhalese I have no problems from "some Sinhalese" or any other thing in Sri Lanka, so I feel very comfortable there and I definitely look like one of them and may be I also could call the place as "home" but as a citizen of Sweden (which is also not my home as things stands now but all my life is here, daughters, farm and all my stuffs) I have to take visa to go to Sri Lanka that means I am a foreigner there. Of course I can eliminate this bureaucratic issue by taking dual citizenship but that's not eliminate the feeling inside...immigrant here and foreigner there that's the reality of an expatriate.

You Anne-Lise asked for thoughts and that's my thought.

beppi wrote:

Khalida.UNC wrote:

I have yet to experience the nature, as I am in the middle of the largest city, but I know it is out there. One day I shall take a bus to Yangmingshan or Yilan.

Off-topic, but I want to add: Yangmingshan and Yilan are overrun and overrated, but unfortunately all the better places (like mountain scenery rivalling the alps, aboriginal villages where Chinese is rarely spoken, wild hotsprings reachable only after an hour-long climb, ...) are difficult to reach by public transport. I bought an old car for that purpose. But you can try the wonderful Alishan railway and on the top trek away from the masses.
Have a nice time - I wish I was there now!

You are probably correct, but I should visit at least once since several people have recommended these places. I have no access to a car, though I suppose I could rent one. Everything I have seen so far has been near the MRT and bus lines.

finnbo wrote:

No, at least in Sweden.

You can be a well integrated immigrant, that's the maximum level you can reach. Maybe in your mind you may sometimes can feel the place where you are as your home but in your fellow citizens eyes you always look like an immigrant. When you are an immigrant! yes word alone speaks for itself, that means you are not at your home, you are from somewhere else, where that somewhere is your home.

(Unless you are in a country like Israel where everyone look different from everyone, the whole world is there so no one knows if you are a foreigner or a countrymen as long as you speak Hebrew or Arabic, for that matter only English also could work for sometime thanks to aliyah concept. Maybe there are also some other countries like this and I haven't yet lived in Israel for long time to be 100% sure about that matter either)

We have a co worker who is from Denmark who has lived in Sweden for at about 30 years (at least more than my 23 years in Sweden) but we call him for Dane, it's easier to say that than his name because he is better known as the Dane. So you see Sweden is not his home. You don't see any difference from his appearance, just another Scandinavian from a distance of 3-4 hours of a journey from where he was born and they all look almost the same but he has his own Danish dialect so he is the Dane who is not at his home.

In Sri Lanka Tamil people lived for generations since the history of the country as we know it, some came later, more than 250 of years ago but for some Sinhalese people they are immigrants, that means they are from somewhere else and Sri Lanka is not their home. You all know what happened because of those "some Sinhalese".

Since I'm Sinhalese I have no problems from "some Sinhalese" or any other thing in Sri Lanka, so I feel very comfortable there and I definitely look like one of them and may be I also could call the place as "home" but as a citizen of Sweden (which is also not my home as things stands now but all my life is here, daughters, farm and all my stuffs) I have to take visa to go to Sri Lanka that means I am a foreigner there. Of course I can eliminate this bureaucratic issue by taking dual citizenship but that's not eliminate the feeling inside...immigrant here and foreigner there that's the reality of an expatriate.

You Anne-Lise asked for thoughts and that's my thought.

You are correct about Israel. It is similar in many other countries - USA, UK, Canada, Australia, South Africa, Turkey. I have never been to Sweden, but I doubt most of the world can look like a local. However, you can walk the streets of New York and no one will ever know that you are not from there.

At about 20% or more of Swedish population are immigrants and most of them live in major cities, many in Stockholm and Malmö and there are some districts in those cities that you don't see a Swede, even policemen there are second generation immigrants and there you meet people from countries that you never knew existed before. So diversity is certainly here.
But Sweden as an entire country so far is a place hard to feel like home when it comes to how I look like from the outside compares to Sri Lanka or Israel since Swedes have a certain unique look even a blind person can distinguish a Swede from an immigrant like me. It's like a Swede in China or a Chinese in Ethiopia etc. Once I took a Swedish friend who has lived her entire life in countryside areas to an immigrant area call Alby in Stockholm. She was the only Swede there and she told me she felt like she had gone abroad in other words she wasn't at home. That also is what I meant.
(Moreover Sweden is a fantastic country to live a quite, calm life, immigrants here are welcomed and respected as any other human)

I know an elderly Indian gentemen here in Germany, who lived in the country longer than me (he acquired German citizenship,too) and less long abroad (he came here as a child).
Who is more German, him or me?
The world needs more such cases, that make one see the absurdity of nationalism and borders!

There is no simple answer to this question. If I take examples from people I know best, both of my ex wives had come to Sweden when they were little girls but since they were raised up by Sri Lankan parents and they had a Sri Lankan community to hangout with they're both Sri Lankan and Swedish but not half half one second Sri Lankans and other second Swedish, sometimes intentional and sometimes unintentional. You don't know when and how much Swedish or Sri Lankans they are. When I compare this behaviour with totally Swedish female friends who were born here and raised up by Swedish parents I see a crystal clear difference, one of them even had lived in Goa for long time but still 100% Swedish.
So the answer depends on how you and this gentleman were raised up and by what kind of parents and what type of area in German.

Do you ever stop being a foreigner?

There isn't a valid answer to this question. We are all foreigners in a way. To the citizens of any country can you figure out what are your roots 10 generations back? Can you be 100% sure that any one of your ancestry not a foreigner? So there is mix of all people in every nations and in every family there is foreigners. Lets just see the world as one and all as humans...

The only way of never being a foreigner is to stay put where you were born and raised, and never move.
In a world that values flexibility and the ability to look at issues from different angles, foreigners are far superior to such locals.

beppi wrote:

I know an elderly Indian gentemen here in Germany, who lived in the country longer than me (he acquired German citizenship,too) and less long abroad (he came here as a child).
Who is more German, him or me?
The world needs more such cases, that make one see the absurdity of nationalism and borders!

If you are both citizens, you are equally German.

I often use New York as an example. One citizen might have lived in Brooklyn his entire life, one moved from Pakistan when he was 42, one came as a child from Vietnam.  They are all Americans.