Why expats love Vietnam?

Yogi007 wrote:

Only this week Vietnam states they are concerned about “Overtourism “  and the negative affects it's starting to have.   

We've all seen the high rise ghettos that are springing up everywhere, most of which are poor quality and would be more suited to social/ welfare housing in the back blocks of  run down western cities....but wouldn't meet engineering specs anyway.

In 2000 only 10 million Chinese had travelled OS.     Today it's approaching 200 million.    They make up over 20% of the worlds travellers.    The passport offices in China are running 24/7 and still can't meet the demand.

What will it be like in 2025....a few short years away.   I've read that Khanh Hoa Tourism is targeting  400/450,000 arrivals (mainly China) a month within 3 years.       

I'm off to Thailand for a regular “sabbatical “😆 next week.    Actually the Chinese visitor numbers are DOWN in Thailand.......wonder where they're going. .?

Boracay island 🌴 the Phillipines....was a nice place.   Now , it's overun by Chinese tour groups.   

Bali.....same there, it's overrun now and spoilt. I  first went to Bali straight after school in 1978.   Saved up by working weekends & school holidays  in a timber yard .    It was true paradise then, hardly any bitumen roads.  A beach hut, kero lantern, and cold outdoor shower.

Was there 6 months ago.......McDonald's, KFC, Starbucks, Pizza Hut & 80,000 Aussie,s punching the f#ck out of one another in Bar fights.

I suppose the days of finding an idyllic tropical destination in SE Asia will increasingly get harder.   Everyone's chasing the tourist $$ while they can get it.

They're still are places, but for how much longer....?

ADMIN:

I nominate this post for it's own sticky thread.

Information for every dreamer...

As an Australian it really makes me cringe when I see these “yobbos” in action. Yes everyone travels to foreign countries to have a good time, take in their culture or see their sights but you don't have to act like a complete f#&ken idiot when your there. I just wish they would stay home.
Wadey

That's the spirit Wadey...
us aussies must maintain a degree of decorum 🤓

Tell em to Stay at home & run amok.......which brings Yogi to his old footy trip days..

We used to be responsible citizens in our social exploits.....even enlisting the help & advice of local Police to plan our evenings out.

Yep.....on a weekend away,  we would pull the bus up in front of the local Police station .......then walk in and ask them   “ we're all  looking for a wild night out....where do you get the most trouble” ?  🤪🤪

It's a shame...you just don't see that kind of forward planning these days .

Wadey wrote:

As an Australian it really makes me cringe when I see these “yobbos” in action. Yes everyone travels to foreign countries to have a good time, take in their culture or see their sights but you don't have to act like a complete f#&ken idiot when your there. I just wish they would stay home.
Wadey

You want to see bad behaviour...go watch Chinese at a seafood buffet.

colinoscapee wrote:

Wadey wrote:

As an Australian it really makes me cringe when I see these “yobbos” in action. Yes everyone travels to foreign countries to have a good time, take in their culture or see their sights but you don't have to act like a complete f#&ken idiot when your there. I just wish they would stay home.
Wadey

You want to see bad behaviour...go watch Chinese at a seafood buffet.

😄 I think I will pass on that one.
Wadey

In an attempt to get this back to the OP, in my opinion, I think many expats do not love VN, the opposite.  The attraction is there for the economics, but if one spends a significant amount of time in VN and learns some vietnamese and understands what their neighbors and locals are saying, red tape, tien cafe etc., the love for VN gets tarnished and reality sets in. 

Like any country, there are pluses and minuses and each have their own viewpoint.  There are things I like about VN and things I do not like, but I do not love VN and honestly, I have not met an expat living in VN that loves VN.

vndreamer wrote:

The attraction is there for the economics, but if one spends a significant amount of time in VN and learns some vietnamese and understands what their neighbors and locals are saying, red tape, tien cafe etc., the love for VN gets tarnished and reality sets in.

Well, it really depends from what perspective we approach the whole thing. I have been very irritated with the political correctness frenzy invading western media, especially in North America. I can see this in politics and on social media. If you're against Tempons being provided for free at government offices, you're being called a sexist and misogynist. If you're a white cook that cooks Indian food, it's being called "cultural appropriation". If you write a Star Trek show where a homosexual character dies, it's homophobic, and only transgender actors should be allowed to play the role of a transgender character.

With this toxic cloud of political correctness above me here, when I'm in Vietnam I feel like a "free" man. You don't have to filter your every two words not to offend someone, and you don't have an army of Twitter warrior evangelists wasting time trying to convince you that a stupid show about a fat woman losing weight to get revenge should get cancelled. People actually have real day to day worries to deal with.

So I'm not sure I can say that I "love Vietnam", but it certainly is sometime a great counterweight to "progressive" societies.

.
"So I'm not sure I can say that I "love Vietnam", but it certainly is sometime a great counterweight to "progressive" societies"

             Hear Here.   

   ..but what do I know..?   I'm an expat who loves living in Viet Nam...     
.

But Bazza; you are a counterweight to both progressive and reactionary ideas.   

.
   Denied: the pendulum swings both ways...

          ..as do double-edged swords...     
.

WillyBaldy wrote:

vndreamer wrote:

The attraction is there for the economics, but if one spends a significant amount of time in VN and learns some vietnamese and understands what their neighbors and locals are saying, red tape, tien cafe etc., the love for VN gets tarnished and reality sets in.

Well, it really depends from what perspective we approach the whole thing. I have been very irritated with the political correctness frenzy invading western media, especially in North America. I can see this in politics and on social media. If you're against Tempons being provided for free at government offices, you're being called a sexist and misogynist. If you're a white cook that cooks Indian food, it's being called "cultural appropriation". If you write a Star Trek show where a homosexual character dies, it's homophobic, and only transgender actors should be allowed to play the role of a transgender character.

With this toxic cloud of political correctness above me here, when I'm in Vietnam I feel like a "free" man. You don't have to filter your every two words not to offend someone, and you don't have an army of Twitter warrior evangelists wasting time trying to convince you that a stupid show about a fat woman losing weight to get revenge should get cancelled. People actually have real day to day worries to deal with.

So I'm not sure I can say that I "love Vietnam", but it certainly is sometime a great counterweight to "progressive" societies.

For now VN is safe, but I'm sure that PC crap will eventually find its way here.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Yogi007 wrote:

Only this week Vietnam states they are concerned about “Overtourism “  and the negative affects it's starting to have.   

We've all seen the high rise ghettos that are springing up everywhere, most of which are poor quality and would be more suited to social/ welfare housing in the back blocks of  run down western cities....but wouldn't meet engineering specs anyway.

In 2000 only 10 million Chinese had travelled OS.     Today it's approaching 200 million.    They make up over 20% of the worlds travellers.    The passport offices in China are running 24/7 and still can't meet the demand.

What will it be like in 2025....a few short years away.   I've read that Khanh Hoa Tourism is targeting  400/450,000 arrivals (mainly China) a month within 3 years.       

I'm off to Thailand for a regular “sabbatical “😆 next week.    Actually the Chinese visitor numbers are DOWN in Thailand.......wonder where they're going. .?

Boracay island 🌴 the Phillipines....was a nice place.   Now , it's overun by Chinese tour groups.   

Bali.....same there, it's overrun now and spoilt. I  first went to Bali straight after school in 1978.   Saved up by working weekends & school holidays  in a timber yard .    It was true paradise then, hardly any bitumen roads.  A beach hut, kero lantern, and cold outdoor shower.

Was there 6 months ago.......McDonald's, KFC, Starbucks, Pizza Hut & 80,000 Aussie,s punching the f#ck out of one another in Bar fights.

I suppose the days of finding an idyllic tropical destination in SE Asia will increasingly get harder.   Everyone's chasing the tourist $$ while they can get it.

They're still are places, but for how much longer....?

ADMIN:

I nominate this post for it's own sticky thread.

Information for every dreamer...

I'm only reading this thread for the uplifts Yogi's posts make the far ends of my lips do.

WillyBaldy wrote:

With this toxic cloud of political correctness

You aren't wrong.
All this PC rubbish is absolutely toxic and causes a lot more hate and trouble than the best possible mantra - It something doesn't hurt you in any way, leave it alone.

So someone is gay - No bother to me so I don't bother hating gay people
Transgender - No big deal except when ladyboys grab me by the arm and demand I hire them for sex. Until then, I really don't care either way.
Skin colour - You have to be daft to hate someone because their skin is different
Same goes for everything else, religion, whatever - If it doesn't bother anyone, it hardly matters. (Yes, I know extremist idiots bother people in a terminal way so those bunches of morons are a different story)
Politicians and pub politicians are a pain in the arse end - that lot are more bother than lawyers and property agents.

Yes Yogi..very few spots left but continue searching for short time Margaritaville. 😎😏😏

This is my third visit to Vietnam. Warm weather, good healthy food (International dishes as well), nice people, safe, low rent, and generally lower cost of living. Had girlfriend in HCM. Good looking and in my general age range. However, she was pushy to get married and I felt like her and her family's personal ATM machine. Now in Da Nang and I like it better. Doubt I ever see girlfriend from HCM again

MIKEY101 wrote:

This is my third visit to Vietnam. Warm weather, good healthy food (International dishes as well), nice people, safe, low rent, and generally lower cost of living. Had girlfriend in HCM. Good looking and in my general age range. However, she was pushy to get married and I felt like her and her family's personal ATM machine. Now in Da Nang and I like it better. Doubt I ever see girlfriend from HCM again

I hear Da Nang is amazing. I kinda wanna live by the beach. But it's probably a lot tougher and slower for dating than HCMC. Can you speak on that a little bit?

But yeah I have the same issue as you minus the ATM part. They are really pushy with the marriage thing and if you decline...on to the next one.

I doubt very much that Boracay would be overrun by Chinese (Yogi007). The whole Island was closed by Duterte late 2017 (I think) and only a few places re-opened in October 2018 - 6000 beds in government-approved hotels as opposed to the almost 20 000 previously. The place had seen rampant illegal development (sounds Chinese!) and raw sewage pumped directly into the ocean. The cruncher for Chinese is no casinos are allowed. Sure there may by back-room gambling, but there is no way I would frequent an illegal gambling den and attract the ire of the police there after nearly 7000 extra-judicial murders over the last couple of years since Duterte came to power.

G'day Nuns,,

  Since Boracay Phillipines reopening in October , the Chinese tour groups are 55% of total tourist numbers now.

That's a 3000% increase in 10 years.
A lot  of the new business licenses issued since have been to CHinese operators as well.

The big worry among “what's left “ of the locals is a big push from the Macau based Galaxy Entertainment group for a Casino development.   

Unfortunately MONEY TALKS and a guy called Rodrigo Duterte is now running the joint.   Check out his family background.

Do you think he's the type of Guy that'll take brown paper bag money to  tick ✔️ the “approved” box on the Casino DA development application .????

Hi Yogi007

I was in Philippines in May/June 2018 and there was no talk about Chinese taking over Boracay; there was however, lots of chatter about the Chinese pillage of Sihanoukville in Cambodia.

I unreservedly apologise for my ignorance about Boracay. The Chinese takeover must have been sudden as Boracay has only been open again since Oct 26 2018.

I haven't been to Boracay but by the sound of what you said, I will be avoiding it in the future as well (hate touristy areas which is why as an Aussie, I have avoided Bali, but tripped around the rest of Indo especially the outer islands like Ternate, Sulewesi, Banda Niera etc - beautiful).
As for Roddy, I have no doubt that he will have a box full of brown paper bags. He certainly has lots of body bags! A Marcos protege I'm afraid, and he will plunder the Philippines as Marcos did. He's already put the drugs trade in the 'safely' hands of the police.

The problems with Chinese is that they set up their own tour operators, souvenir shops, hotels etc all owned and staffed by Chinese nationals and only catering for Chinese nationals. Very little of the tourist Rmb stays in the host country. We have the same problem with them in Oz, even to the point where the tour operators were charging A$10 per tourist to walk on free-access Bondi beach! No honour or respect for anyone or anything. I have also been told of riots and brawls in 'Snooky' when locals have been refused entry to Chinese establishments. I was refused entry to a restaurant in Nelson Bay, NSW, because it was for tour groups only. I spat the dummy properly over that but to no avail.
We get what we allow in the end. Locals everywhere need to rise up to stop the rampant Chinese economic blitzkrieg, particularly in SE Asia and the Pacific.

I should live so long!

G'day Nuns..
Nah mate ....it's all good,,I was just updating the scene across there.   I was in Cebu a while back & from what the locals were saying , don't bother going over to Boracay...it's paradise lost .😆

This mob Galaxy Casino group from Macau want to invest $500 million bucks.  They'll get the locals on side with “job” promises to get their support & inevitably Rodrigo to pass it.....but the wheels are already turning.   These deals are done ages ago.

Sihanoukville is totally swamped by Chinese Casino investment as well.  86 casino refurbs & new builds going on.  They've got Ocheuteal & Otres beaches tied up with 99 year lease.   The turf wars have started with Chinese gangs getting in on the action.

Then only last week,, Hun sen told the USA they were no longer required in the upgrade of Sihanoukville Port.   The Chinese have that now & looks like it'll become a strategic Naval base.   The Yanks aren't to happy about it.   Cambodia's virtually f#cked,,the EU has put heavy tariffs on their exports ,  they'll never be able to repay the Chinese for the airport upgrades at Sihanoukville & Phnom Penh as well as the Freeway they are building from PP to Sihanoukville.

The other problem the Chinese may fix is WATER...Sihanoukville can't cope with the increases in tourist numbers. It's drying up.  Mother Nature is coming back to haunt them.   

Sign of the times mate....analyst reckon they'll overtake the US as the worlds No 1 economy pretty soon, if not already . 😆

Where surrounded here in Vietnam.    The Chinese want to build a rail line thru Laos into Cambodia .   That'll be debt entrapment.   We've got the spratley islands with what looks like Naval Bases being built.

And now they want these SEZs ( special economic zones) at three points in Vietnam,,,all of which will require “port “ facilities.  The SEZ leases are for 99 years & renewable.    So they'll have arguably the best slice of coastal SE Asia all surrounded .   Cambodia & Laos will “ bend over” and take the money.....and I think this local mob will follow suit.

Expats here are talking about buying property on 50 years lease...with the possibility of renewal.  Unless your a Sea Turtle , I don't know how many will be around in 50 years to do that ... If it was possible , I'd say you'd be getting the fast train to Beijing to renegotiate the lease😆😆

The chows know that MONEY TALKS and they're dealing with a very corrupt regime which has only ever known “coffee money” as a way of doing business. 🤓

China will eventually rule the region.   They say the best General never has to fire a shot.    They'll just take advantage of greedy corrupt & inept fools running these countries and pay a bit of “coffee money”.

It's been going on for a long time.  Even the Yanks got Alaska off the Russians for 2 cents an acre. 😆😆

It's a funny old world mate...

I was unaware it was that bad in Cambodia, but with Hun Sen as leader, they have no hope. He was one of Pol Pot's henchmen and should have been tried for crimes against humanity and hanged. Now that would have helped Cambodia, but there seems to be a never ending queue of despot leaders waiting in the wings in most third world countries. Roddy is another classic example. I hope his wife likes shoes - it's traditional. I was shocked to discover that the Cambodians had sold the rights to Anchor Wat to the Chinese some years ago. Is nothing sacred? I can't help but wonder if any of the funds ever trickle down to the common people, but I think I know the answer already.
Do a search of SMH cartoon called the 'trickle down theory' by Moir. Apt.
I was under the impression Viet Nam and China were old and irrepressible enemies. If the government of VN lets the buggers in, VN will be another Cambodge with all the same social problems. The so called 'belt and road' initiatives are a bit like a mafia favour (an offer they cannot refuse!); there will always be a debt to repay far greater than the favour. They did this in Sri Lanka and ended up taking over Hambantota Port as the Lankans couldn't repay the loans. The Chinese knew this of course, but it is not the reason for their largesse, now is it?  They just get nice warm fuzzy feelings helping other, less fortunate countries.
I believe in Santa and the Easter bunny too.
Australia is smarter than that, we just sold them the ports of Newcastle and Darwin.
Unbelievable!
As for the economy, I think China is probably there already, but our mate Donald has put a bit of a damper on that at least for the time being.
Our world is a very odd place.
Don't start me on political correctness.
I once joked that I wasn't racist: I hate everyone equally!
"Stop the world, I want to get off"

Have thoroughly enjoyed chewing the fat with you, Yogi007

Yeah, the Chinese flood is gaining momentum in SEA.

They backed the NVA  years ago and werent successful in taking over the whole area. But now, without a shot, as Yogi mentioned, they are gaining traction through the whole region by lining the pockets of corrupt officials.

There's a place up north here I've always liked., great scenery , not crowded and a great vibe to it.   BUT....I've seen the master plan & its Environmental Vandalism at its best.

It's going to eventually be like Orlando Disney World meets Macau Casino world.   They've made videos and  presentations of what it's going to be like.   

Once that beautiful geographical region is trashed it will never be the same. 

The Yanks put Disney World in the middle of the Florida swamps.   They put Las Vegas in the middle of a desert.     They didn't put it in the middle of Yellowstone National Park or on the edge of the Grand Canyon.

But these clowns take the best scenic coastal areas and build outdated ,poor quality high rise ghettos.......crazy.

But then again,,what do you expect.    They've only been back” behind the wheel “ for about 40 years ...haven't they.   Foreign aid , FDI et. has pumped it up , but with Industry 4 looming , that will taper off.
Plus....they have a shitload of debt.   

It won't be long and they'll need some wealthy friends....😆😆 & we know who that'll be ......and the money will come with strings attached.

Malaysia backed away from some Chinese' investors because of the “debt trap “ problem.  But after Najib pissed off with $2 BILLION they might have to reconsider.😆

Malaysia was on my radar for a while ,  .Langkawi is a nice spot .   

But Khanh Hoa Province has the best weather in SE Asia....and apparantly Nha Trang's humidity is low compared to other places .  That's the main “carrot” for Yogi.    I don't like shitty weather.

It's just improvising & adapting to the changes here.   Even my local market has been scuppered for a tourist bus parking area.   All the beachfront street food & coffee vendors have been “run off”.   

If you want a cuppa with an ocean view ,,it's Inside with AC and nice furniture & a 150 kids drinking milk tea playing Hello kitty on the phones.    It's not much different to the Gold Coast back home now. 

But it's a good life ..  I live in a building  where it 98% locals.   I've just found out the old VN bloke I've been “talking” to for 6 months is a mute.   He just nods.   I thought he understood English 😆

Apparantly his wife died 15 years ago & he hasn't spoken since..

Ah well...that'll save Yogis vocal chords for another day.

More and less my experience. And I stay in Norway Jun-August since the Summers can be very lovely in Norway where I have a big house where 80% is rented out to add to my pension.

Love the beer prices in Vietnam :-)

Hi Anne-Lise, a lovely common name in Norway. I had one X with that name.

I read your link. I think you covered all of it. But BEER is not mentioned once. When you can get 2 liters of local beer for 30K dongs, that is cheap. Actually the cheapest one in South East Asia.

Otherwise, i loved the article

Regards,

Martin T

RealPommy wrote:

I read your link. I think you covered all of it. But BEER is not mentioned once. When you can get 2 liters of local beer for 30K dongs, that is cheap. Actually the cheapest one in South East Asia.

Yeah, but it really makes my plan of losing a few pounds very difficult...

it is simple economics, just learn about the belt and roads project, not rocket science.  It has been the same story for centuries and the USA is no different (take a read of "diary of an economic hitman").   Put it simply, the debt is not expected to get repaid, the expectation is to get repaid with assets (e.g., natural resources, industries etc,), not cash.

vndreamer wrote:

it is simple economics, just learn about the belt and roads project, not rocket science.  It has been the same story for centuries and the USA is no different (take a read of "diary of an economic hitman").   Put it simply, the debt is not expected to get repaid, the expectation is to get repaid with assets (e.g., natural resources, industries etc,), not cash.

Yes, the USA has been doing this for dozens of years but they don't like when some other country dare doing the same thing! 

Nielsen Flute wrote:

MIKEY101 wrote:

This is my third visit to Vietnam. Warm weather, good healthy food (International dishes as well), nice people, safe, low rent, and generally lower cost of living. Had girlfriend in HCM. Good looking and in my general age range. However, she was pushy to get married and I felt like her and her family's personal ATM machine. Now in Da Nang and I like it better. Doubt I ever see girlfriend from HCM again

I hear Da Nang is amazing. I kinda wanna live by the beach. But it's probably a lot tougher and slower for dating than HCMC. Can you speak on that a little bit?

But yeah I have the same issue as you minus the ATM part. They are really pushy with the marriage thing and if you decline...on to the next one.

Yes Danang is a lot slower for the ladies than HCMC, but if you are living there it will not be a problem.
And the Nam ladies are more marriage oriented, much different than their Thai neighbours.
The beauty in Danang is unmatched anywhere in SEA.

Canman63 wrote:

Yes Danang is a lot slower for the ladies than HCMC, but if you are living there it will not be a problem.

What does this mean, not a problem?

WillyBaldy wrote:

Canman63 wrote:

Yes Danang is a lot slower for the ladies than HCMC, but if you are living there it will not be a problem.

What does this mean, not a problem?

The girls in the bars run slower, so its not a problem catching them.

.
"The girls in the bars run slower, so its not a problem catching them."

   But beware: the boy must chase the girl - until the girl catches him...

..and if you read the posts of those who get caught..?   

      ..methinks the (real) problem is slow thinkers...     
.

Bazza139 wrote:

.
"The girls in the bars run slower, so its not a problem catching them."

   But beware: the boy must chase the girl - until the girl catches him...

..and if you read the posts of those who get caught..?   

      ..methinks the (real) problem is slow thinkers...     
.

He who flashes the cash has no need to run.

.
         "who flashes the cash has no need to run"

              ..but payments can be painful...     
.

Bazza139 wrote:

.
         "who flashes the cash has no need to run"

              ..but payments can be painful...     
.

Live dangerously.....don't pay.$$$$$

.
  " Live dangerously.....don't pay.$$$$$ "

        ..so that's wot I've been doing wrong..?     
.

I'm trying to work right now, you guys stop with your funny posts!

.
       It's free; so, suffer...     
.

Bazza139 wrote:

.
         "who flashes the cash has no need to run"

              ..but payments can be painful...     
.

It's you're cash, I don't give mine away, no pain in my neck of the woods! Show them who's boss, and not a problem. I learned a word 9 years ago traveling Asia, the word is NO!
When they see you're not a pushover, they are great.
Don't u derstand all these guys getting fleeced??????