Double Taxation Concern

I have through marriage a permanent resident Visa for Brazil but reside in the U.S . I keep it active as I'm planning to retire in Brazil.  I have been told that after paying income tax in the states that I am obligated to also pay Brazil taxes on the income made here. Any advice in regards to double taxation and does Brazil really try to enforce it

You can not keep your residency active. If you've been out of the country for 2 years... Your residency for BR can be revoked.

Unless you mean the Vitem XI/family reunion visa that the consulate issues you. I believe you have 1 year to enter the country and register through PF, and upon entering the country 90 days to report to PF.

As far as taxes goes. Other US expat members can answer.

Best regards,

I go to Brazil every year for several weeks but the income taxes is the issue. Another concern on taxes does Brazil expect one to pay social security and pension taxes even though they have been already paid in the U.S..? If so, what are some tricks to avoid as double dipping on taxes would defeat the purpose of living there.


Your several weeks' stay per year in Brazil is enough to keep your permanent residency alive.

If you earn any income in Brazil, you have to pay Brazilian income taxes on it.  If you transfer more than about R$20,000, depending on age, to Brazil in any given year, you may have to pay income taxes on the overage.  You should speak to an accountant the next time you're in Brazil to get an expert opinion.

Under the new Social Security Treaty that went into effect last October between Brazil and the United States, a citizen or permanent resident of either country who pays Social Security taxes in one country, is not required to pay them in the other.

I heard about the social security treaty but it seamed it was to prevent s/s taxes from being withdrawn from both countries paychecks. I did not read about ss taxes not being taxed after retirement and deposited into Brazil. Be so much simpler if there was a tax treaty and speaking with a expat tax attorney is advisable and thanks for your advise. If any members know of excellent tax attorneys I would like their web site. Thanks

As it happens, someone from Social Security was here in Manaus this afternoon to meet with beneficiaries, and I was at the meeting.
It's not that "ss taxes not being taxed after retirement and deposited into Brazil"; it's that only one country at a time can collect from an employee and his/her employer for one job, whether that employee is physically located in the US or Brazil.  This is mainly intended to keep expats and their employers from being double dipped. 
The money never gets pooled.  However, credits can be.  Social Security requires a person to contribute to the system for at least 40 quarters, or 10 years, to qualify for a benefit.  Under the agreement, however, if a person works and contributes only 8 quarters in the US, s/he can still qualify for a US benefit if they work and contribute the remaining 32 quarters in the Brazilian system.  That's new.  The person will receive separate US and Brazilian benefits, but will be able to receive both.
Surviving spouse and child benefits can now be paid to the family members of a deceased beneficiary, even if those family members are not US citizens and were never US residents.  That also is new.

True, that's what I thought I read. Bringing in funds to live in Brazil I think can be questioned if they are income generated and are taxable.

There's no tax treaty between the US and Brazil, so it's up to expats to work with their tax advisors in both countries to minimize double taxation.  It's not terribly difficult,  but it's not automatic, either.
On the other hand, as James Woodward reported several years back, Canada and Brazil have a tax treaty that treats our Canadian friends very favorably indeed.  Then again, they lose all their benefits if they become dual citizens.   So everything has an upside and a downside.

In this country if I make 100k I would pay the U.S. about 25k in taxes and Brazil another 25k. I would rather have the tax treaty and loose Brazilian benefits. Thanks for replying

abthree has explained.
You pay income taxes in US on all income. No taxes in unless you have made income in Brasil.
That said, take care as to how much you transfer to Brazil. I was only allowed $2K US per month for a few years. I then went to bank and requested a higher amount. Explained that some months I had real property, medical ins., auto taxes and Ins and other expenses. FBAR for filing on banks outside US. It is mandatory for of $10K, but accountant said to file each year, just in case.
Do not know many places you can make over $10KUS from a Brazil firm. If you mean an online business and all is income paid to your bank it is US income.
I am not keen on having SS deposited direct into a BR Bank. Never know you may want to return to US or go to another country.........Then you have to wait until SSA gets it all straight

What you are saying is since all my income is made in the U.S. there is no need to worry about the Brazilian tax man? Good info on the limits of what I can possibly bring in monthly and 2 thousand per month is kind of low. I would think charging everything on no fee international credit cards would be a good idea and using xoom to transfer funds to a friends account. I plan to retire in the Porto Seguro area. Thanks, Robert

Exactly what I did. Used card for many things and had  most bills debited from bank. When those bills were paid I would transfer additional funds. Tip: It is best to transfer a different amounts. I tried $1000 the first of he month and had to wait until cleared bank. (which took time at first. I would then do another $1000K some days later. Had trouble asking about the second $1K cause they looked on system and it showed the first $1000 and said "you got it"! Then days later the second came. So I now do $800 and second a different amount.
One thing to watch for is a BR savings account. Even if interest is low, it is still BR income and "papa bank" knows.

I get more information from you than international living magazine. So the secret is to use international debit and credit cards and try to pay house bills,  medical and everything with them. Never would I deposit social security into a Brazilian bank. I do have a Brazilian bank account and have no problem paying taxes on that if needed. Imagine living in the U.S. and after paying the U.S. income tax then being expected to pay Brazil the same... This is what I have been told by some. Love to hear your story about Brazil and thanks for chatting.  I'm from Long Beach,  California

Probably anywhere else would be less taxes than CA. Fed+State+sales,+prop and gas taxes would leave me with very little.
I can live within SS here. I go back to US at least twice a year and that's when I go over the SS alone...

You file taxes for income in both Countries.  Once abroad, you are not expected to file taxes in Brazil, for as long as your last filing prior to leaving Brazil  specifies you are about to leave the Country.

In the Brazilian filing, you are supposed to download a client software every tax season , and at the filing you are faced with three choices:
1.Your Yearly Filling Update
2.Your I am leaving Brazil Update
3.Your last filing made by your survivors after you hit the grave ditch.

The USA is a reverse. You are supposed to file taxes, even if no income is to be Declared. Pay close attention to FATCA guidelines. 

Simple as that.

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