Random observations

On the subject of HORNS...
The louder the horn the more respect they get.
It seems that the bigger the vehicle, the louder the horn.
I'll bet if you could put a train horn on your scooter, you would own the road.

Jim-Minh wrote:

I'll bet if you could put a train horn on your scooter, you would own the road.

Believe it or not, I often thought of this.  I doubt that Amazon can ship this one to Vietnam, but you could bring it back on your next trip:  https://www.amazon.com/GAMPRO-Inches-Tr … amp;sr=8-9  I am sure your local hole in the wall scooter repair shop would love to install it.  The only problem might be that you could suffer permanent hearing loss.  It is designed to be installed under the hood (bonnet?) of a car or truck which would somewhat muffle its sound.

Here is a simpler alternative.  Perhaps you could even find something like this in Vietnam, maybe where recreational boating supplies are sold.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NCSJGGC/re … amp;sr=8-6  These things are loud.     If someone behind you is honking for you to get out of their way, you could blast this right back at them without even having to look back.

Some of them small trucks & busses have like really annoying horns & they use them constantly, it drives me nuts

I've seen asians leave the stickers on in the US.  In their mind, it keeps the sense of newness.  The "new car smell" equivalent of everything not a car.

Driving is VN is chaos but there are still rules.  People are more aware when driving than in the US.  I've had my cousin drive past 200 people in an intersection and yet somehow managed to spot my aunt.  You get bumps and bruises from accidents but there are usually less serious major accidents.

The trash and littering are things I hate the most.  Even worse when you have crystal clear blue water that lets you see the trash 20 feet below on the seabed.

The politeness is subjective and complex.  Too much to discuss about here.

Freshness by itself adds quality.  The amount of fresh fruits in the Mekong is unbelievable.  I actually hate how they sometimes ruin fresh seafood with over-spicing.  Fruits sent to the US are picked before they are fully ripe to allow for transportation.

And yes, a lot of use of sugar in the Mekong also.  That sugar cane just grows like weed apparently.

Deboning is an art.  Wish VN would learn some of it.  HOWEVER, the US swings too far to the other side and not only debones but defats and over-process and then refats back in for flavor.

Speaking of flavors, VN are able to identify what type of fish or meat they are eating.  In the US, if it's not beef or pork, it's chicken.

videriant wrote:

Speaking of flavors, VN are able to identify what type of fish or meat they are eating.  In the US, if it's not beef or pork, it's chicken.

My niece-by-marriage can tell me the name of every fish, shrimp, crab, snail, squid, clam, and mussel that are sold at the seafood market, and the list of names are very long.

Last month, I made a mistake of saying I wished to order some chicken for Tết.  I was bombarded with questions for replies:  "What type of chicken?  What kind of dishes you want to use it for?  How do you plan to cook that dish?  How soon do you need it?"  When I couldn't come up with an answer, I was given a lengthy lesson on Vietnamese chicken.

There are 12 different types of chicken in Vietnam. 

Gà Ri or gà Ta are from the North and Central;   gà Lùn or gà Tè are from the North;   gà Hồ or gà Tò are from Bắc Ninh (northeast of Hanoi);   gà Đông Tảo are from Hưng Yên (southeast of Hanoi);   gà Mía are from Sơn Tây (a province in Hanoi);   gà Văn Phú are from Phú Thọ (northwest of Hanoi);   gà Đen are from Lào Cai (on the border with China);   gà Lôi are from the Central;   gà Nòi are raised to be gamecocks;   gà Tàu Vàng are from the Mekong Delta;   gà Ác are also from the Mekong Delta but raised only for restorative medicine;   gà Tre are from the South and sometimes kept as pets;   gà Hơ Mông are raised by the Hmong. 

If those 12 types of true Vietnamese chicken are not to your taste, there are also chicken originated in other countries and raised here:   gà Tam Hoàng were from Guangzhou;   gà Hybro were from the Netherlands;   gà Sasso were from France;   gà Lương Phượng were from China;   gà nâu, gà đỏ, gà Hubbard, gà Leghorn, and gà Plymouth were from the US.

Not all chicken should be used for the same dish, I was told.  If you think the French are proud of and particular about their fromage, you haven't had a conversation with a serious Vietnamese cook about Vietnamese chicken.  Go ahead and do that if you want to truly immerse in the culture.  Just make sure you have enough room in your brain to store the trivials that you have no use for -- that is, they're usless until someone like Videriant came along with a comment about chicken ...

Ciambella wrote:

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There are 12 different types of chicken in Vietnam. 

Gà Ri or gà Ta are from the North and Central;   gà Lùn or gà Tè are from the North;   gà Hồ or gà Tò are from Bắc Ninh (northeast of Hanoi);   gà Đông Tảo are from Hưng Yên (southeast of Hanoi);   gà Mía are from Sơn Tây (a province in Hanoi);   gà Văn Phú are from Phú Thọ (northwest of Hanoi);   gà Đen are from Lào Cai (on the border with China);   gà Lôi are from the Central;   gà Nòi are raised to be gamecocks;   gà Tàu Vàng are from the Mekong Delta;   gà Ác are also from the Mekong Delta but raised only for restorative medicine;   gà Tre are from the South and sometimes kept as pets;   gà Hơ Mông are raised by the Hmong. 

If those 12 types of true Vietnamese chicken are not to your taste, there are also chicken originated in other countries and raised here:   gà Tam Hoàng were from Guangzhou;   gà Hybro were from the Netherlands;   gà Sasso were from France;   gà Lương Phượng were from China;   gà nâu, gà đỏ, gà Hubbard, gà Leghorn, and gà Plymouth were from the US.

I was surprised that my wife could distinguish between culrtivated and naturally raised chickens.

But now I know that there are more than 2 varieties. 

Have you ever thought about becoming a Wikipedia author?

Andy Passenger wrote:

I was surprised that my wife could distinguish between culrtivated and naturally raised chickens.

But now I know that there are more than 2 varieties. 

Have you ever thought about becoming a Wikipedia author?

In my experience, even in the US, almost everyone can intuitively tell the difference between farm-raised and free-range chicken.  The just don't know to look.  And end up confusing the "firmness" of free-range by calling it "tough".

Lets not forget about the other use by Vietnamese of the word chicken, meaning prostitute. That definitely is not your standard farmyard variety.

colinoscapee wrote:

Lets not forget about the other use by Vietnamese of the word chicken, meaning prostitute. That definitely is not your standard farmyard variety.

Maybe the toughest of all...

Ciambella wrote:

There are 12 different types of chicken in Vietnam. 

Gà Ri or gà Ta are from the North and Central;   gà Lùn or gà Tè are from the North;   gà Hồ or gà Tò are from Bắc Ninh (northeast of Hanoi);   gà Đông Tảo are from Hưng Yên (southeast of Hanoi);   gà Mía are from Sơn Tây (a province in Hanoi);   gà Văn Phú are from Phú Thọ (northwest of Hanoi);   gà Đen are from Lào Cai (on the border with China);   gà Lôi are from the Central;   gà Nòi are raised to be gamecocks;   gà Tàu Vàng are from the Mekong Delta;   gà Ác are also from the Mekong Delta but raised only for restorative medicine;   gà Tre are from the South and sometimes kept as pets;   gà Hơ Mông are raised by the Hmong.

Wow, I am impressed. That took some work and it's appreciated.

Observation:

Having the bathroom light switch on the outside wall is annoying and inconvenient, But I understand you can't have switches in a room where virtually everything can get wet.

videriant wrote:

I've seen Asians leave the stickers on in the US.  In their mind, it keeps the sense of newness.  The "new car smell" equivalent of everything not a car.

Wonder if there's a market for knockoff stickers?

Ga tre and ga noi are used in cockfights often....a very impressive list.  When it comes to chickens, I a am a gà mờ :-)

Yep, the red toe nailed chickens are crafty....gotta watch the con mèo hai chân as well (2 legged cats)

GuidoVN wrote:

When it comes to chickens, I a am a gà mờ :-)

Excellent word play!

Ciambella wrote:

GuidoVN wrote:

When it comes to chickens, I a am a gà mờ :-)

Excellent word play!

Dim Chicken? I'm afraid I don't get it.

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Jim-Minh wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

GuidoVN wrote:

When it comes to chickens, I a am a gà mờ :-)

Excellent word play!

Dim Chicken? I'm afraid I don't get it.

..maybe like Dim Sum..?    ..but I'm too Chicken to try...       

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@Jim-Minh:  If the word is used in ophthalmology, it means the blurred vision due to disability such as cataract: mắt gà mờ.

If it's used in everyday speaking, it describes a person who is either inexperienced or doesn't have the ability to recognize even the most obvious situation.  The closest English equivalence I can think of is greenhorn, but a greenhorn can become a pro while a gà mờ may stay oblivious through life.

Northerners often use it in this throwaway remark, probably one of the best throwaway remarks in the language:  "Người đâu mà gà mờ thế không biết!" = It's incomprehensible how oblivious s/he can be.  (You can use that remark on the men who couldn't understand how their love lives went astray with the dream women whom they met on Tinder or at a bar just weeks after they arrived in the country.)

I get the impression I shouldn't have asked. Anything that roughly translates as "dim chicken" can't be good. I'll have to remember that and not use it on someone bigger than I am.

In HCM and surrounds, it is used to convey a student's 'trouble subject'....mathematics, etc.  Imagine a poor chicken with a single bad eye (mat le) , that runs all over, not frantically, looking for food.... ..but it just cannot  find the chicken feed bin with ease.

I get the impression I shouldn't have asked. Anything that roughly translates as "dim chicken" can't be good. I'll have to remember that and not use it on someone bigger than I am.

Well, you assumed correctly never to directly use the term at another person.  :-)  It's one of those terms that the local gossipers use when talking about others.  "That woman brags about her son's uni grades too much.  He does OK in social studies, but is a real 'ga mo' in chemistry".

Both self effacing humor, and sarcasm are completely missing in VN culture.

GuidoVN wrote:

Both self effacing humor, and sarcasm are completely missing in VN culture.

I can see that.

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GuidoVN wrote:

Both self effacing humor, and sarcasm are completely missing in VN culture.

No need to miss out!   Us Expat.com ex-spurts can help you with that...     
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GuidoVN wrote:

Both self effacing humor, and sarcasm are completely missing in VN culture.

That's not true at all. 

Self effacing humour (tự ti hài hước) has been a large part of Vietnamese literature for a very long time.  Just from my memory of the lessons I taught my students in Classic Lit class almost 4 decades ago, Hồ Xuân Hương (1772–1822) was the famous female poet who was infamously known for the bitter humour that heavily coated her poems, most of them described her life as the second-rank wife (vợ lẽ) to her second husband Tổng Cóc.  Later on, Tú Xương (1870-1907) was well-loved for his self-deprecating and self-effacing humour; in one of his most famous poems, he called himself a "terracotta man" (phỗng sành) who was a legend in his own mind. 

Sarcasm (mỉa mai) is even more popular than tự ti hài hước.  Mỉa mai is being used by people of every path of life, sometimes gently, other times so sharp it cuts deep.  Mỉa mai is heard most often in many mother-in-law/daughter-in-law (mẹ chồng nàng dâu) relationship in which blatant criticism was never opined but every word uttered by the older woman can quickly destroy the new bride's spirit.

Đoạn Trường Tân Thanh, written by Nguyễn Du (1766 - 1820) and known simply as Truyện Kiều. was the most famous poetry story and the most important work of Vietnamese Classic Literature.  In the first 6 lines of the 3254 line poem, sarcasm was introduced as the unavoidable flavour of life, then continued in the same vein throughout the whole story.

I'm currently very busy in this hectic US trip, thus have no time to expound more.  The one thing I would like to say, with absolute certainty, is that self effacing humour and sarcasm are both alive and well in Vietnam, in literature as well as everyday life.

I think that expats may get the impression that Vietnamese do not appreciate sarcasm may simply be that the are not fully understanding sarcasm when it is in English.    Verbal humor requires the highest level of linguistic understanding.  I could also say that most Americans don't get British humour (with a "u")   

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THIGV wrote:

I think that expats may get the impression that Vietnamese do not appreciate sarcasm may simply be that they are not fully understanding sarcasm when it is in English.    Verbal humor requires the highest level of linguistic understanding.  I could also say that most Americans don't get British humour (with a "u")   

.   Agreed.   I mean, who could imagine an American Monty Python..?     

.    Then again, it might just be the fixed focus of the Western myopic mindset..?

   ..but even "Deep Thought" took a few millenia to find the answer...  (HHGTTG)

THIGV wrote:

I.  I could also say that most Americans don't get British humour (with a "u")   

Yes, many non native speakers of English have this problem

Thanks much @Ciambella, and I agree @THIGV (about English sarcasm usually missing the mark with Vietnamese).

This morning a friend over 300 km away asked if I'd eaten lunch? I understand it to be a polite inquiry as to my well being (taking care of myself) not a left-brained inquiry into the minutiae of my day (ok, maybe a little).

So I replied yes, I had eaten breakfast very late.

She (20 year old daughter of a friend - thinks of herself as my "granddaughter") replied:

"yes maybe you should improve your meal time"

To which I replied:

"Maybe you cook for me and be my wife. Otherwise I will worry about my mealtime"

Of course, she took me literally, and replied that she cannot do that because she is too young AND she thinks of me as an " Uncle"

(of course)

I explained my sarcasm, and eventually we both shared smiley faces.

Also, yesterday, a new friend told me he lives "Nearby Hội An"

When we began our journey to his town, I saw that he lives over twice as far away as Hội An, to the southwest.

I explained "nearby", and why his home isn't.

Later he used the term "nearby" again, when explaining the distance to an ATM.

It wasn't "nearby".

So when he told me that the bus station (to return to Đà Nẵng) is "nearby", I told him that word doesn't work for us.

I suggested he tell me how far walking "in minutes".

That worked.

Later he was talking about his brother going to HCMC.

I said: "Oh. He will be living 'nearby'?

He busted his gut laughing.

HE understood my sarcasm.

Ciambella -
*** I'm currently very busy in this hectic US trip, thus have no time to expound more.  The one thing I would like to say, with absolute certainty, is that self-effacing humor and sarcasm are both alive and well in Vietnam, in literature as well as everyday life. ***

I made my statement because my attempt at humor was completely missed. Enjoy your trip. Your continuing education of our group is enjoyed and appreciated. Hmmm, educated in classical Vietnamese literature 40 years ago...

THIGV -
Very well stated. The Viets have had 4000 years to develop their culture and language, if there is a difference, and it is appreciated. I might that add that Obama could make a good Monty Python if he was funny and not just crazy, stupid, and dangerous.

AND OB -
Well said. I'll bet you are a hoot to rub elbows with.

HORNS revisited.
I saw my first motorbike with an auto horn today. It seemed to work. It got my attention and everyone else in his vicinity.

I spent several hours walking around Da Lat today taking photos and talking to the locals. It never ceases to amaze me at how much the people note and appreciate talking to a foreigner in Vietnamese. Or maybe they appreciate not having to communicate in another language. In either case, I really enjoy it when they turn to their friends and repeat to them what I just said. And it's always a pleasure to see the smiles they return when I treat them as an equal and show interest in their lives and their children. What must it be like to be happy to find acceptance by visitors to your own country?
The Vietnamese kids are so cute. I could fill a book with photos of beautiful Vietnamese children.

And a gripe - my Viet SO can't understand why I glom onto the khăn ướt that I get at the restaurants and secret away in my cargo pockets. I know we are charged 3000 vnd for most every one I cart off but they are durable and absorbent and as good as a washcloth. And when you compare them to the paper we find at most of the eateries they don't hold a candle to a good khăn ướt. I keep them in a plastic bag in my pocket. I take them home, wash and dry them, and put them in pockets to be used later. Let's face it, Viet food in Vietnam is a messy proposition. You have to gnaw the meat off of bones, hack vegetables into edible portions, and separate the edible from the inedible with your fingers. After I wash and dry those durable towels, I have to cut my SO off at the pass to keep her from throwing them away. And now we arrive at the crux of the situation. Being a Viet Kieu, I think she feels she is above reusing a napkin and its practicality is secondary to its image. Rant off.

I have to return to the US for further treatment for my MRSA infection but I'll be back. None of my pants fit me anymore as I lost 25 pounds.  I was able to walk many miles today without fear of getting dizzy and falling down. I am very much better, but I need to touch base with American medicine for verification. That's especially true considering the bill will be footed by Medicare, which I very generously funded in my earlier years.

Jim-Minh wrote:

HORNS revisited.
I saw my first motorbike with an auto horn today. It seemed to work. It got my attention and everyone else in his vicinity.

I thought I'd heard them all here.

Then a big truck passing me from behind today really got my attention.

Sounded as if The Queen Mary was about to steam up my b*tt.

For a second, I thought I was in Long Beach...

Thanks for such a thorough reply. In literature, VN humor and satire was brilliant compared to today's slapstick.

I read many early books about VN myths and fables. My main motivation was to end my frustration asking why weird VN traditions endured. Round items are lucky, but pregnant women are unlucky at weddings. Place a picture of an elephant under honeymooners bed, to ensure a boy. After giving birth, women will not bathe for a month.  The reply was always ‘Dunno, it's always been that way'. The skeptic in me read all the literature, and found the source. I had fun quoting old soundbytes to my wife benignly  :-D, much to her dismay.  For redemption, I learned to long neck sing the tale of Lưu Bình Dương Lễ. Tân Cổ

Socially, I was surprised that all those /;()$78 personal pronouns are sometimes tossed aside among VERY close friends. Kinh chao quy vy my butt.

Yes, I will always be a thang quy :-). Thanks again for all the info.

I do several advanced English conversation workshops, and the English euphemism ‘I am between jobs at the moment' is construed by VN as ‘I finished my morning job, and am heading to my afternoon job'.

JIM-MINH

That is rude to say about American Women !! Plenty to show and more Pal. A post from January 2019 " Most American women don't have much to show off" I am surprised I am the only one commenting on this.

Veterancat48 wrote:

That is rude to say about American Women !! Plenty to show and more Pal.

Yours may be an appropriate reply, but to whom?   

Any human with 1 iota of folly should respect Faulty Towers and Black Adder.  They don't have to love it, Jeez , I can barely understand Adder....

Weather not so cold.  Surely snowflakes are not starting to flurry in HCM.

Veterancat48 wrote:

JIM-MINH

That is rude to say about American Women !! Plenty to show and more Pal. A post from January 2019 " Most American women don't have much to show off" I am surprised I am the only one commenting on this.

[color=#dc2121]As a noob to expats, yet have a fairly decent understanding of both TV (easy), and văn hóa VN (utterly impossible)...my advice is take a back seat.  None of us will change VN as an 'expat'.  If you makee an impact, God help you, goodbye visa/trc/prc/wp.  VN has endured/flourished for millennia despite themselves. /color]

Busy now, a special ba ngoai has passed away....no died.  Selphies off corpse aplenty.  I helped sticking young bananas, to help....no fun.

Happy to share the final event...a chicken that circled the grave..we rip wrapped the place earlier, to thwart cats from climbing above.  I thought chicken was a magical event....nahhh

Who had the temerity to attack a comment about American women?  Talk to CNN.

Watch dead BN chicken dance

Not graphicc