Retired . . . and bored

Have only been retired for around 6 months and I guess the initial elation has begun to wear off. As CEO of a group of 6 specialised research companies working mainly on military contracts the constant long haul flights and general pressure was beginning to take its toll on this much used old body of mine so I do not regret retiring as such. If I had not made the choice to hang up my boots voluntarily then I guess eventually my body would have decided for me, sooner rather than later. In some ways I feel guilty about complaining, I mean, I have an excellent Vietnamese 'wife', ( not married yet ) we have been together for 9 years now and no man could ask for a better companion. I chose HCM over my small house in England and I guess I don't want to be anywhere else. My daughter has her own life and is head of her own department at a Scottish university and, to be frank, doesn't have much contact. My 'wife' has a large family that drive me nuts but do provide a degree of entertainment, crazy bunch. But I find I am increasingly becoming restless, not sleeping much and slowly getting more and more angry at things that would have made me smile and walk away before. Peoples impoliteness, their lack of common decency with regards to respecting others etc etc . ..  you get my drift. So , is there anyone else out there feeling the same ? Oh and um . . . Happy New Year.

I brought my Raspberry PI (a SBC) with me in case I got bored. I need to learn how to program it anyway, plus I  brought some Wi-Fi development equipment. I had to leave a $10,000 well-equipped lab in Texas. But there's new instrumentation to be had really cheap.
I already told Ciambella I had to leave all my cast-iron cookware behind...
And I just got a notification that I Have a teaching position available as soon as I get my TOEFL cert.  The Viet kids are so bright and so attentive it will be a dream working with them.
And Da Lat is Denver with no snow, a gardener's dream. I'll be gardening, camping, and hiking to my heart's content.

I quit the workforce almost 19 years ago.  My spouse retired more than 15 years ago. 

When we first moved to Europe, I spent 6 months renovating an 800 year old house, read voraciously, knit everything I wear, volunteered in a women club and a homework club.  I also took Italian class 3X/wk for 5 years, European Spanish twice a week for one year.  He skied every winter. We hiked monthly with Club Alpino Italiano, and travelled extensively.

Now living in VN, I blog and read many hours a day.  He mountain bikes every morning and bodyboards as often as there are good waves.  We walk every afternoon.  And we still travel extensively.

There hasn't been time to get bored.

Re: getting angry at things, I've figured that my standards are not everyone's standards, my view on the correct manners is not the same as everyone else's.  If they don't judge me on how I behave in my life, I'm not going to judge them on how they do in theirs. 

As I've lived in other people's countries for 2/3 of my life, I've learned to be a good guest so they can continue to be my good hosts.

Moreover, I've also lived through my husband's 2 heart attacks.  During the first one, he flatlined 5 times.  I saw up close how fragile life can be, so I do not allow negative thoughts and feeling to affect my mental and physical health anymore.

Hi Diobas,

Have you read about the five stages of grief? I hope you do so. Find a good book or Scholarly article that discusses the stages of grief and the issues considered as causes of grief. Remember one of those cases is the loss of a job. Even though you think you walked away voluntarily with some good income, you still lost a part of you that you have loved or served for several decades. And that loss can induce grief. Hints: two of those stages are denial/disbelief and then anger.

Second, you need to develop some plan about what you had always wanted to do for which you worked decades and saved money.

For example, for me right now, I wish I have financial independence like you have. I would quite my day job now and move to a warm, tropical, slow-paced County like where you are now. I will consult for NGOs, travel a lot to many places, and write those expenses to share with the world. It will not be for the money, but I love to write and share my experiences. But I can't do much of that now because my job sucks all the energy out of me. And I have not traveled much to amass those experiences and see things because I lack the money and no freedom from work to do so. That's why financial independence or retirement is so important---to do on your own terms what you have always loved and dreamed of doing. You are right there where millions of us want to be soon or some day. Enjoy it. Good luck!

Diobas,
except for the part where you say you're bored with retirement, I agree about what you said at the end of your post.

Before I moved here I was in Vietnam many times.
There I said more or less like many foreigners that I like the people and the culture.
But only when you're here longer than a few weeks at a time, you're a daily street participant and you live among the locals can you see the true character of the locals.
I'm talking about HCMC and its surroundings. Maybe it is different in other areas.
But here I see every day mostly annoyed, arrogant, rude, dissatisfied and bored people. Rarely do I see a smile on the petrified faces. If someone smiles once it is only a fake smile (as it is claimed by others again and again by Thais).
People are only interested in themselves. Respect or defer to someone is for locals totally unfamiliar.
They buy dogs as children's toys, or for exhibiting and keep the dogs chained all day long in the apartments and on the balconies so that they are not disturbed by the dogs when lying lazily around. Therefore the neighbours have to endure the permanently barking dogs.

My wife's family is not very educated, but they always know everything better. Since my wife and I listened to them a few times, we made some wrong decisions.
Sensitivity is a foreign word among the Vietnamese. Certain relatives said to my wife during pregnancy that she got ugly instead of congratulating her on her pregnancy.
Nothing comes from the heart, everything is calculated.
If you're invited to a wedding or visit someone after giving birth, you bring exactly as many gifts as the people gave you last time.
It is always said that the Vietnamese are so child loving. But that only goes as far as the children don't disturb them lying around the half day. That's why they sedate a just 6-month-old baby simply by give im a smartphone.
Also the hundreds of advice and customs given by the parents and their parents are exhausting and sometimes even dangerous to health. It is unbelievable what one should not eat after pregnancy and what one should eat. Everything is followed although the doctor advises the opposite.
Also the predictions of the pagodas are anything but harmless. So the monks told my wife's family that someone in the family would die in 2018. My wife was very terrified that it would affect our unborn baby. Recently the monks said that my wife's father will not survive the year 2019 and all the children cried terribly. It is not so important for me, but my wife suffers a lot from it.
I could list here another A4 page which questions the oh so great Vietnamese culture.
Therefore I admit that I would never live here, if I would not be happily married here.
I don't think it's as bad everywhere in Vietnam as it is here in and around HCMC. When our baby is older we will explore Vietnam and I think I will meet more polite and cheerful people.

But I can't complain about a boring retirement life.
I was also afraid that as an early pensioner (8 years earlier than normal) I would quickly become bored. However, after over a year here I have to say that I am more busy than I was at the time when I was still working.
In the first year I got married (the paperwork, mainly because of the marriage registration in my home country, had taken us a long time), enjoyed a long honeymoon, moved three times, converted my driver's license, my wife made the driver's license, bought a motorcycle, bought a car, bought a house, sold the house and bought land instead (and converted from farmland to building land), sold the car and bought a new one, planned house design and supervised the house construction.
Everyone here knows how time consuming it all is here in Vietnam.
In between we became pregnant, gave birth to a child and because the newborn did not drink enough milk we spent 2 weeks (including the birth by c-section) in the children's hospital which was very time consuming.
And now during the next years I will be busy by child education and perhaps next year we want a second child.

You see, I haven't had time for boredom yet.  :)

Also in the future I have enough "projects".
Raising children, programming the home automation system in the house, installing a solar system, setting up the garden, cooking more with my own vegetables, reading news about the world affairs for at least 2 hours a day and hopefully taking the time to relax in between.
Also there are things I always wanted to do (e.g. to deal with Linux and program my own website) and hopefully find time for it before I bless the time.

As a conclusion I can only say that it is up to you whether you are bored or not.  ;)

Andy Passenger :

As a conclusion I can only say that it is up to you whether you are bored or not.  ;)

:top:

Hi there,

HAPPY NEW YEAR UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.....................

I am in the same boat as you and share the same sentiments as you and could not agree more with your feelings, and you have put it in writing very well and brave enough to voice your thoughts on this site, and  do not be surprised if you get mixed reactions.....................but the truth cannot be hidden and surely does hurt.  So each to their own.

Anyway long story short, stay in touch if you want to for further discussions and you are welcome to catch for a beer and a chat.

Take care,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,all the best for 2019

Find something to do, idle hands lead to idle minds.  :/

Maybe get involved with a local charity, English classes at a pagoda, join the Clean-Up campaigns and many other worthwhile activities.

Andy, Hd and everyone, thanks for the response and the detailed summary. I am pleased that some of the replies were the result of an idyllic retirement and am happy for you ..  however, that was not the subject of my post. Andy and HD hit the nail on the head. Libhero .. . The grass is not greener on the other side, there is no ideal place. there is no paradise, it only exists in the minds of those who do not know better . The problem I have is that there is nothing I want to do that I haven't done already. I was born in Singapore to English parents, have two Hons degrees, spent 21 years in the military mostly in Special forces, have made and lost and made again enough money to survive and had old cars that were forever breaking down and falling to bits as well as Ferraris and Aston Martins . .  that pretty much did the same at a much higher cost lol. My previous wife of 35yrs died in my arms from a blood clot in her lung and despite all my experience and knowledge I could do nothing to save her. I guess what I am asking is what else is there ? I have had projects in for instance Africa . . . but the more successful  you are in feeding them the more they have children and the more there is to feed. As for spiritual guidance . ..  there are 6 major religions all of which believe in one God, so even if there is one then 5 are wrong for a start. Odds of 6/1 don't appeal much. From what I have seen of this planet then even if there is a higher being then whatever his or her reasons are for whatever it is they do or not do, any entity that can allow to happen what I have seen is not worthy of support. I have scraped remains of bodies from trees to try and find enough to send back to their relatives in body bags. So . ..  As my own death approaches I cannot help wondering what to do before it happens. Play WGT Golf on the iPad when the rest of the planet sleeps. Seems a waste of so much experience and knowledge but I guess in the scheme of things we are not really important anyway.

Thanks, see below.

Thanks, see below.

Andy, Hd and everyone, thanks for the response and the detailed summary. I am pleased that some of the replies were the result of an idyllic retirement and am happy for you ..  however, that was not the subject of my post. Andy and HD hit the nail on the head. Libhero .. . The grass is not greener on the other side, there is no ideal place. there is no paradise, it only exists in the minds of those who do not know better . The problem I have is that there is nothing I want to do that I haven't done already. I was born in Singapore to English parents, have two Hons degrees, spent 21 years in the military mostly in Special forces, have made and lost and made again enough money to survive and had old cars that were forever breaking down and falling to bits as well as Ferraris and Aston Martins . .  that pretty much did the same at a much higher cost lol. My previous wife of 35yrs died in my arms from a blood clot in her lung and despite all my experience and knowledge I could do nothing to save her. I guess what I am asking is what else is there ? I have had projects in for instance Africa . . . but the more successful  you are in feeding them the more they have children and the more there is to feed. As for spiritual guidance . ..  there are 6 major religions all of which believe in one God, so even if there is one then 5 are wrong for a start. Odds of 6/1 don't appeal much. From what I have seen of this planet then even if there is a higher being then whatever his or her reasons are for whatever it is they do or not do, any entity that can allow to happen what I have seen is not worthy of support. I have scraped remains of bodies from trees to try and find enough to send back to their relatives in body bags. So . ..  As my own death approaches I cannot help wondering what to do before it happens. Play WGT Golf on the iPad when the rest of the planet sleeps. Seems a waste of so much experience and knowledge but I guess in the scheme of things we are not really important anyway.

Actually, it reads to me like you rally just need some physical exercise. I know  that for many people, bad thoughts build up with the lack of physical activity.

As for the rest, making the choice to live AND marry a foreign culture requires some acceptance and less judgments. Negativity will not help the situation, nor change the family, but will kill you sooner.

I may sound simplistic, but sometimes life is.

Happy New Year

Find some social outlets. For me, it's church on the weekend. I also hang out at an English cafe and often invite friends there or help someone out when I visit. If you dare venture out of your own personal bubble, you'll find that there's a whole, interesting world out there just ripe for the plucking.

Diobas :

So , is there anyone else out there feeling the same ?

Do you mean angry, resentful and despondent?

"I came to understand that I was powerless over ____; that my (thinking) had become unmanageable."

That doesn't mean I never share any of your feelings.

I do.

But as quickly as possible, I "unshare".

I've come to recognize the futility and personal danger of indulging myself in similar resentments.

The "attitude of gratitude" thing is my own personal life preserver.

A key takeaway from Anger Management (for me) is the concept of "magnification".

If I'm angry, and I share my anger with you, and I convince you to join me in my anger, we both walk away from that encounter angrier than we were when we began our conversation.

Diobas :

...there is no paradise, it only exists in the minds of those who do not know better.

I am "transformed through the renewing of (my) mind"...

If I share my experience, strength and hope with other grateful people who are avoiding resentments, we walk away from that encounter with a greater sense of purpose and empowerment.

Paradise.

Diobas :

I guess what I am asking is what else is there ?

Children.

The poor and disabled.

Those who are hungry.

Not the whole world, or even the Africa of your experience.

Just someone who lives in my neighborhood.

Becoming the type of companion my companion is to me...

Diobas :

As my own death approaches I cannot help wondering what to do before it happens. Play WGT Golf on the iPad when the rest of the planet sleeps. Seems a waste of so much experience and knowledge but I guess in the scheme of things we are not really important anyway.

It helped me to start by stopping drinking or using any mind-altering substances.

I also get great inspiration from this:

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dylan Thomas

Every culture has it's quirk.  And we can't kid ourselves.  A lot of the "sophistication" of cultures was built upon the blood and tears of others.

That said, reading "...there is no paradise, it only exists in the minds of those who do not know better." I have the opposite view.  I believe the lack of paradise is only for those who think their minds know better.

Circling back to the OP.  There's a reason you chose Vietnam over England.  Don't just remember the good parts about England and the bad parts about Vietnam, it needs to be complete comparison.  Vietnam may have been the right decision at the time but maybe it's not now.  Or maybe  you have more information now than before.  No decision is set in stone.  If the suggestions others have given still doesn't do it for you than have an exit plan and exit.

Wow so spot on..this could describe Thailand as well, "But only when you're here longer than a few weeks at a time, you're a daily street participant and you live among the locals can you see the true character of the locals.
I'm talking about HCMC and its surroundings. Maybe it is different in other areas.
But here I see every day mostly annoyed, arrogant, rude, dissatisfied and bored people. Rarely do I see a smile on the petrified faces. If someone smiles once it is only a fake smile (as it is claimed by others again and again by Thais).
People are only interested in themselves. Respect or defer to someone is for locals totally unfamiliar.
They buy dogs as children's toys, or for exhibiting and keep the dogs chained all day long in the apartments and on the balconies so that they are not disturbed by the dogs when lying lazily around. Therefore the neighbours have to endure the permanently barking dogs."

For those of you that have enough wealth to invest in the community a bit, and are bored, why don't you consider some sort of business that benefits your neighborhood?

Am I the only one that considers HCMC a poor choice for a retirement destination? In Da Nang I still get pissed off with the locals, I think every expat does at some point, but the reason they are still here is that they can get through that stage without it dominating their life. Shit is going to happen and you will get annoyed again in the future.  As long as you are having more good times than bad, then you'll stay positive.  I've been retired for almost 5 years. The first year of that was spent mostly in Hanoi, the rest in Da Nang. Best move I ever made. I still enjoy short visits to Hanoi, but as for living there .....

What I do to keep busy:-
- cool days - cycling
- hot days - beach
-  bad weather days - grab my headphones and favourite music and walk up the stairs of the apartment building as many times as I can.
- can't be f[at]cked days - online crosswords / youtube.

Things that piss me off : -
-People that take off when there is still 3 seconds to go before the light changes, and then ride at 20 kmh.
-Locals that, after watching you bodysurf some waves, decide that standing directly behind you is the best place to be, when there is so many other places they can stand and wash their balls.
- the dust that gets everywhere. (Just cleaned the fans today)

Things that I like about Vietnam: -
- my wife and daughter
- the smile and helloes I got from some young construction workers today
- the neighbours that we actually know and talk to
- my Vietnamese friends, that are true and honest friends
- cheap beer
- my motor bike
- etc.

Andrew Paul Gregory :

Am I the only one that considers HCMC a poor choice for a retirement destination?

No, there are two of us.  :)

Make that 3.

I guess what my discontent really comes down to is two things. Yeah yeah I get all this stuff about when in a foreign country etc etc etc. But I have spent my life travelling all over the world and spent most of my time in Asia. For me it makes no bloody difference where you are or what the culture is . . . Basic respect for ones fellow human beings and common courtesy should be the norm wherever you are. Vietnamese are simply neither of the above and do not give a damn about other people. Yes there are exceptions but they are rare. Charging through red lights, pissing by the roadside, loud and excruciating  Karaoke machines and painful singers that would frighten a scolded cat away and all the rest of it. All of which is utterly infuriating and I no care how many do-gooders on here tell me otherwise about accepting it I do not see why foul behaviour should be acceptable ANYWHERE ! We are humans for God sake and supposedly further up the evolutionary ladder then Cockroaches.
My second problem I guess is simply motivation to embark on new projects. I have had all the rewards, Ferrari's, Lambourghini's and so on . ..   all of which are as unreliable as hell and there aren't even any roads left to use them on. When I had both I spent most of my time driving an old van with my fishing gear in it whenever I went out because the speed bumps hurt my ass whenever the Ferrari went over one. I just want some peace, a reasonable way of life, some enjoyable time with my wife and to lay in peace to watch the dawn. The wife's family are certifiably insane, never listen to any logic whatsoever and continue to walk a path of complete disorder whilst teaching their children, of which they have far too many , to be exactly the same.  Time to hit the single Malt methinks.

Diobas :

I guess what my discontent really comes down to is two things. Yeah yeah I get all this stuff about when in a foreign country etc etc etc. But I have spent my life travelling all over the world and spent most of my time in Asia. For me it makes no bloody difference where you are or what the culture is . . . Basic respect for ones fellow human beings and common courtesy should be the norm wherever you are. Vietnamese are simply neither of the above and do not give a damn about other people. Yes there are exceptions but they are rare. Charging through red lights, pissing by the roadside, loud and excruciating  Karaoke machines and painful singers that would frighten a scolded cat away and all the rest of it. All of which is utterly infuriating and I no care how many do-gooders on here tell me otherwise about accepting it I do not see why foul behaviour should be acceptable ANYWHERE ! We are humans for God sake and supposedly further up the evolutionary ladder then Cockroaches.
My second problem I guess is simply motivation to embark on new projects. I have had all the rewards, Ferrari's, Lambourghini's and so on . ..   all of which are as unreliable as hell and there aren't even any roads left to use them on. When I had both I spent most of my time driving an old van with my fishing gear in it whenever I went out because the speed bumps hurt my ass whenever the Ferrari went over one. I just want some peace, a reasonable way of life, some enjoyable time with my wife and to lay in peace to watch the dawn. The wife's family are certifiably insane, never listen to any logic whatsoever and continue to walk a path of complete disorder whilst teaching their children, of which they have far too many , to be exactly the same.  Time to hit the single Malt methinks.

Except with the sports cars (I have never spent more than 20k on a car), it is 100% consistent with my view.  :top:

Diobas :

Time to hit the single Malt methinks.

Keep coming back...

Diobas :

I guess what my discontent really comes down to is two things. Yeah yeah I get all this stuff about when in a foreign country etc etc etc. But I have spent my life travelling all over the world and spent most of my time in Asia. For me it makes no bloody difference where you are or what the culture is . . . Basic respect for ones fellow human beings and common courtesy should be the norm wherever you are. Vietnamese are simply neither of the above and do not give a damn about other people. Yes there are exceptions but they are rare. Charging through red lights, pissing by the roadside, loud and excruciating  Karaoke machines and painful singers that would frighten a scolded cat away and all the rest of it. All of which is utterly infuriating and I no care how many do-gooders on here tell me otherwise about accepting it I do not see why foul behaviour should be acceptable ANYWHERE ! We are humans for God sake and supposedly further up the evolutionary ladder then Cockroaches.
My second problem I guess is simply motivation to embark on new projects. I have had all the rewards, Ferrari's, Lambourghini's and so on . ..   all of which are as unreliable as hell and there aren't even any roads left to use them on. When I had both I spent most of my time driving an old van with my fishing gear in it whenever I went out because the speed bumps hurt my ass whenever the Ferrari went over one. I just want some peace, a reasonable way of life, some enjoyable time with my wife and to lay in peace to watch the dawn. The wife's family are certifiably insane, never listen to any logic whatsoever and continue to walk a path of complete disorder whilst teaching their children, of which they have far too many , to be exactly the same.  Time to hit the single Malt methinks.

Can't wait to hear from the " I won't hear a bad word said about Viet Nam " brigade.

Some expats just don't see it for what it is. Those tinted glasses and wanting to be accepted and admired by the locals is sickening.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but the OP is full of it.

Speak of the devil !!!!!

You are to kind.  Must be your wife in you.  :)

20k on a car is more than enough. My old van cost 2K and did exactly what I wanted it to do . . .  Still . ..  we all make mistakes I guess lol. I was young and stupid then, now am old and even more stupid, and lot more grumpy.

I will :-))  When I sober up if that daunting day ever arrives .

I agree totally ! Too many people are afraid to say the truth. If we all spoke up and said the things that needed to be said then slowly perhaps things would change. Vietnam as a country is as good as anywhere, with all its faults . . . Its the people that inhabit it that make it such a mess. It isn't the expats that are impolite, spit in the street, make excessive noise, drive like lunatics or throw bags of rubbish in the rivers . . .  It's the Viets themselves.

Diobas :

I agree totally ! Too many people are afraid to say the truth. If we all spoke up and said the things that needed to be said then slowly perhaps things would change. Vietnam as a country is as good as anywhere, with all its faults . . . Its the people that inhabit it that make it such a mess. It isn't the expats that are impolite, spit in the street, make excessive noise, drive like lunatics or throw bags of rubbish in the rivers . . .  It's the Viets themselves.

I can't stop you from wallowing in your fear and calling it righteous anger, or from doing your best to drag others into your toxic pity party, but stop copying your posts to me as private messages.

It's bad enough to run the risk of seeing your crud here in the forum.

I'd guess by now that bottle of single malt is about half empty.

Call a buddy or call your sponsor.

Your choice

Bottom Line...
If you think the country you came from is so much better, go back there, or any other country you would prefer.
We have travelled extensively and all we see is political and financial unrest and boat people.
Go live in Rome for a while and tell me where you would sooner live. Talking to the Australian Embassy in Italy who are receiving 50 plus complaints a week, said, I guess you won’t be coming back again.
Came from UK to Australia in 1980 and have experienced the country go from the land of opportunity to it’s present state which is not good.
Vietnam has a different set of issues which you should be able to live with. My only problem with Vn is the water supply which I understand is going to be dealt with.
For those in the negative camp, try to see where you are well off, move to a quieter area, singing and music is an Asian thing, just move away from it....
Mike.

I could sometimes puke about this hypocrisy here at the Vietnam Forum.

The constant patting of the shoulders (liking) between certain expats says it all.

It's exhausting to hear the "If you don't like it here you can leave Vietnam" sayings all the time.

There is freedom of opinion and I don't let bar me from posting here criticisms about HCMC.

It's just that a lot of things are not good here in Vietnam.  And why not talk about it?

Why can't I be annoyed about it e.g. when a truck driver throws a Sucar Cane cup filled with ice out of the window onto my bonnet at full speed?  There I must simply ask myself whether I live in the jungle or in HCMC.

Besides it concerns here during the last posts only around HCMC (who can read is clear in the advantage).

And it is also so that one is sometimes not completely free to go where one wants.

I have also expressed my negative views about other countries (including my home country) and will continue to do so.

So stop blathering about it and just don't ignore the truth.

michaellieptourists :

Bottom Line...
If you think the country you came from is so much better, go back there, or any other country you would prefer.
We have travelled extensively and all we see is political and financial unrest and boat people.
Go live in Rome for a while and tell me where you would sooner live. Talking to the Australian Embassy in Italy who are receiving 50 plus complaints a week, said, I guess you won’t be coming back again.
Came from UK to Australia in 1980 and have experienced the country go from the land of opportunity to it’s present state which is not good.
Vietnam has a different set of issues which you should be able to live with. My only problem with Vn is the water supply which I understand is going to be dealt with.
For those in the negative camp, try to see where you are well off, move to a quieter area, singing and music is an Asian thing, just move away from it....
Mike.

Please enlighten us with the nature of these complaints in Rome. Rome is the 4th most visited city in the world, maybe it's taking a long time for these problems in Rome to be recognised by other travellers.

OCEAN BEACH If you don't want a response why reply ? .  No point in complaining if the response you get isn't what you like, stop whining if people don't agree with you. So if I kiss your feet all is ok . . . If I disagree it isn't. Get a life for heavens sake and stop being so self bloody righteous.
MICHAEL. Go live in Rio and see how lucky you were in Rome. There are always comparisons. The subject was focused here.
ANDY. You are one of the few honest people on here. We do not all agree, of course, each has our own perspectives and are often limited by circumstance. But the whole point of a forum is to discuss issues that affect us. All this self righteous crap is typical of the blindness that permeates throughout Vietnam. I am here because my wife is and, until I can sort out her visa to go elsewhere, this is where I will stay. But whilst here then surely it makes sense to voice opinion.

Diobas :

Too many people are afraid to say the truth. If we all spoke up and said the things that needed to be said then slowly perhaps things would change.

I would tend to disagree.

People aren't afraid to say whatever, they just know it, realised it was their choice to move there, so just take it as part of the expat experience. Seen various things mentioned, but usually in a matter of fact sort of way, rarely, "It's not nice like <whatever country>", moaning style.

I don't know about others here, but I wouldn't go back to a 'civilised' western country for a gold pig, especially the drug infested hell I know as England - I'm well out of that dump and have no plans of ever returning.  Yes, Asia has problems, but look past them as see the massive positive side this corner of the world has when compared to what are supposed to be the best countries.

As for change - not really - their country so up to them how they behave, and it isn't going to change because a foreigner or few don't like it.

FRED. Thanks for the response. I agree with much of what you say. But I stand by my view that no matter where you are in the world common decency and respect should not be discarded due to location. The world belongs to all of us, we all should have a right to be wherever we want. Yes respect another countries culture, but being expected to respect impoliteness etc is not part of the deal. But thanks for the rational comments.

Well , said Fred.

The main thing Yogi has an issue with , is the endemic problem of neighbours stealing & eating one another’s pets.😳

Boo Boo .......are you there Boo Boo......
Where did he go....🐾🐾🐾

Also . . . . In order to prevent this discussion wandering into the old chestnut subject of finding solace in religion and in response to the personal message that was sent by a member here who wishes to remain anonymous , which I respect. No I am not religious and do not have faith or care for the existence or not of any higher being. For two reasons . ..  Firstly there are 6 major religions on this planet and, apart from causing more deaths through idealism than any other reason we choose to kill each other, all 6 believe in one God so even if there is one then 5 are wrong for a start. Odds of 6/1 don't appeal much. I can get better odds at Kempton races and at least have an each way bet. Secondly, if a higher entity exists capable of creating all we see then I don't give a damn what his, her or its motives are if they can sit back and watch the things we do to each other and do nothing. Tell a 10 year old girl being gang raped in Africa or anywhere else  that " Its ok  . . . all part of the master plan "  I am sure she would respond with " Oh . . thats ok then " ! ! ! Personally I want to be buried with an industrial nail gun because if there is a God then a few bloody tacks in a cross will be the least of its problems.
Hope thats curtailed the religious angle.

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