Tax matters

I'm an Australian resident looking at living in Vietnam but my regular income is from new Zealand from a workplace injury so I get ACC since 1995. ACC enforce that I do a anual tax return but tax in nz and Australia is so expensive
Is it cheaper to be a vietnamese tax resident than nz or Australia?
Any help and suggestions appreciated
Thanks
Milly

You are being paid from a NZ entity, therefore the tax will be paid there, you don't receive the money from a Viet Nam company, so, you can't do a tax return. Maybe I'm wrong, but if it was that easy everyone would be doing it.

I agree with colinoscapee.

Any monies you get from Australia or NZ will be taxed at source. No way around paying it.  Have had experience with this.

You really should talk to a tax advisor in NZ.  You are talking about a specific type of monies being paid from an injury in NZ to you while you reside and become a tax resident of another country.  For VN, AU and NZ, only tax residents are taxed on their worldwide income and non-tax residents are taxed on NZ source income only.  So if you move to VN and establish tax residency, you will be considered a non-tax resident of NZ.  Then, you would need to determine whether the ACC payments are considered NZ source income for tax purposes.  If yes, then you would have to report and pay the appropriate tax to NZ.  However, there is an income tax treaty between VN and NZ and many of these treaties cover pensions, social security, annuities etc. and sometimes they change the sourcing of these types of payments so that you only pay tax in the country in which you are a tax resident.  Thus, even if the ACC income can be sourced and taxed to you as a VN tax resident, you would have to report the income and pay tax in VN, if you want to be a good taxpayer. :)

However, the payor in NZ may still withhold a tax on the payments, but you might be able to get the withholding reduced to -0- or you could file a NZ tax return and request a refund.  All of this really depends on many factors that I have mentioned above.  You really need to speak with a NZ tax advisor.  I could not find a copy of the NZ/VN tax treaty so I am limited in my advice.

If you register as a tax resident in VN, then surely the tax rate would be higher in NZ due to your tax resdency status. Cant see the NZ government missing out on their slice of the action. If it was easy to do many would be doing it. Interested to hear how this pans out.

It all comes down to whether you can afford appropriate counsel or have access to the same for free since such counsel can get expensive.  :)

For those who have appropriate counsel, it is easy and that is one of the reasons why the rich get richer and the rest get poorer.  It is unfortunate that many people hear things from others and accept it as truth, but when it comes to the law, you should always confirm with counsel.

To give you an example of how the OP's question can get complicated, for "EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY" I am providing a copy of Article 20 of the Income Tax Treaty between the USA and Thailand and how it treats similar income, even though the statutory law may say otherwise, Treaties override statutory law.

ARTICLE 20
Pensions and Social Security Payments

     1. Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State.

Basically, this paragraph is talking about a person who worked for a government agency and now receives a retirement income from that job.  As long as the person is tax resident in the country he/she is living in, then this income is only taxable in the country in which they are tax resident.  For example, if I worked for the US government and moved to Thailand, a government pension paid by the US to me in Thailand would only be taxable in Thailand. 

      2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.

Basically, this paragraph is talking about a person that receives Social Security paid by a government to a person who is tax resident in another country, the Social Security is only taxable in the country where the government is paying from.  For example, if i receive social security from the US government and am tax resident in Thailand, it is only taxable by the US, not Thailand.

      3. Annuities derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. The term “annuities” as used in this paragraph means a stated sum paid periodically at stated times during a specified number of years, under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration (other than services rendered.

Basically, this paragraph is talking about a person who receives an annuity and it is only taxable in the country in which he/she is tax resident.

Like I said before, the OP's question relates to a specific type of income and to get the correct answer, they need to seek advice from appropriate counsel.  Others may have opinions and experiences, but given the technicalities of the facts, it would be wise to seek a professional tax advisor. 

I am not offering legal advice on this forum.  I am more than happy to provide general guidance.

Maybe the OP can contact the ACC office in New Zealand and ask. I see on the ACC site that you are allowed to live overseas as long as you follow certain guidelines.

For most tgey never can become a resident here for tax purposes. That is why with most visas here you must exit at least every six months. Because after 183 days you would be considered a resident for tax purposes with nany countries. Then treaties and reciprocal agrrements kick in. Like one of  the others fellas said, best to get real legal advice before you take the leep. I for one know nothing about tax law and treaties between NZ or the land of Oz.

We will be in the TET season at the beginning of Feb and airlines fares are high and booked well in advance. You may want to keep that in mind.

Vagabondone :

For most tgey never can become a resident here for tax purposes. That is why with most visas here you must exit at least every six months. Because after 183 days you would be considered a resident for tax purposes with nany countries. Then treaties and reciprocal agrrements kick in. Like one of  the others fellas said, best to get real legal advice before you take the leep. I for one know nothing about tax law and treaties between NZ or the land of Oz.

With respect to tax residency, many statutory laws and treaties do not require 183 days to be consecutive.  For example, you can be in VN for 5 months and leave for 2 weeks, come back and spend 5 months more in VN.  If you satisfy 183 days in total within a 12 month period, as you would in my example, you are now a legal tax resident in VN. 

Please be careful, just because you leave for 1 day, it does not restart the 183 day test, VN looks at 183 days in total during 12 months and they do not have to be consecutive.

The 183 days depends on your entry and exit dates in your passport as I was told. Of course, if you're on a tourist visa, as most are, that becomes a moot point. But this is exactly why why the procedures for a VEC were changed and you can only have it renews onetime in country. Then you must depart, or you run afoul of residency rules for many countries.

Vagabondone :

The 183 days depends on your entry and exit dates in your passport as I was told. Of course, if you're on a tourist visa, as most are, that becomes a moot point. But this is exactly why why the procedures for a VEC were changed and you can only have it renews onetime in country. Then you must depart, or you run afoul of residency rules for many countries.

I will try and keep this simple.  People need to understand that the test for tax residency and residency for immigration purposes are separate and distinct.  For example, you can be illegal in VN for immigration purposes, but if you stay for more than 183 days, you are considered a tax resident in VN and many countries have similar rules.  Thus, even if you are on a tourist visa, if you keep coming back to VN and meet the 183 test, under the general statutory law, you are a VN tax resident.  However, just because you meet the statutory definition of tax resident, it does not mean there may not be exceptions to the general rule. 

For example, you might be able to get an exception based on a treaty position or a particular visa. I do not know enough about VN law to make that determination.  In reality, even if a foreigner is going to meet the 183 day test and considered a tax resident, how many are going to report their non VN income? 

Another problem the OP may have with NZ is that if he/she takes a position they are tax resident in VN, the NZ tax authority may request they send a copy of their VN tax return.

Like I said before, it can get very technical, but people need to understand that tax residency and immigration residency are separate and distinct tests.  You can have 1 and not the other, for either.

vndreamer :

In reality, even if a foreigner is going to meet the 183 day test and considered a tax resident, how many are going to report their non VN income?

Is it mandatory to register with the tax authorities if you are here for more than 183 days but are not taxable because you have no income?

In 7 years I will receive a pension (to my bank account in my home country), but pension income is not taxable here either.

So I will never be taxable in Vietnam.  Should I still register with the tax authorities?

I have 2 answers for you,

official answer, if you meet the requirements and are legally a VN tax resident, then you should do what is required of a VN tax resident, unless there is a legal exception.

practical answer, if you are confident that you have -0- taxable income under VN law, then I do not see a reason to worry about it because there is no income to report and thus, no liability.   For example, in the USA, if your income is low enough, you are not required to file a tax return. 

However, i do not know if filing tax returns or not can impact other aspects of living in VN.  For example, in the USA, banks, universities, government agencies etc. sometimes request copies of your tax returns to establish your income over a period of time, where you live, number of dependents etc.

You have to make that decision mate, it is very personal and dependent on so many factors.

Seems the OP is not too interested in his own thread.

colinoscapee :

Seems the OP is not too interested in his own thread.

Who cares?
As long as the thread is instructive!  :)

Andy Passenger :
colinoscapee :

Seems the OP is not too interested in his own thread.

Who cares?
As long as the thread is instructive!  :)

Well if I posted something I would be taking part in the conversation, seems like a natural course to take.

So to answer your reply....I do!

How I can register with the tax authority technically? Go to a tax department with my passport?

New topic