Road safety tips

I hear ya. When I first arrived in HCM it was a daunting task to go anywhere. I recall getting up and just staying on the same block. I knew I should becable to get back to were I was staying if I never crossed the street. If your in a hotel get there business card and keep it handy. Then head out and it does not matter if gou get lost. Just hand the driver the business card and he will get you back from your cup of coffee. It gets easier very quickly. Soon you will beca tour guide.

I'm relying a lot on Grab, not walking anywhere. I've become familiar with my little block, but it's super daunting.
But thank you for the tip!!! I keep screenshots of the map and where it is. As well i have landmarks screenshotted on it to.
I ventured out to find a supermarket but saw the traffic and settled on a bun for dinner.

jadehmill wrote:

I ventured out to find a supermarket but saw the traffic and settled on a bun for dinner.

How to cross the street - some tips!

1. Motorbikes, all vehicles, just want to get somewhere ASAP, and streets are always full of obstructions (including pedestrians, bicycles, slower motorbikes, people pushing carts, u-turners, stopped vehicles).
Motorbikes never want to stop.
So unlike in Western countries, don't expect them to ever stop for you. They just want to go around you and keep moving.

2. Intersections are usually but not always the best place to cross; sometimes there is just too much going on in intersections. e.g. no stop light, red light runners, u-turners, very wide intersections, buses,...

3. Take a moment and size up traffic. Always look both ways before you step off the sidewalk. Even sidewalks are not safe spaces, motorbikes are everywhere.

4. Try to cross with others. Best tip for newcomers. Stand next to them on the side where they, not you, would get hit first. That way you can keep up with them and watch traffic at the same time, and feel a little safer.

5. While you cross, take notice of the big gaps in the traffic. This really surprised me. What looks like a solid moving wall of motorbikes from the curb, will have large spaces in the street, spaces for you and spaces for motorbikes to avoid you.

6. Always walk forward, never run, never go backwards. It is ok to pause if you must, or put your arm up. As the motorbikes approach, they will be making a navigation plan. When they see the obstruction that is you walking forward, they will almost always go behind you, as the space behind you opens up.

7. You won't be bothering anybody by crossing the road, and no motorbikes are going to get angry at you (if you follow #5). Riding a motorbike involves avoiding obstacles every 3 seconds, it becomes natural. Ok be bold and go forth!

jadehmill wrote:

I ventured out to find a supermarket but saw the traffic and settled on a bun for dinner.

gobot wrote:

How to cross the street - some tips!

8-  If a driver in a car flashes his lights at you, YIELD!  In many Western countries, flashing lights (from a car to a pedestrian who is about to enter a crosswalk) mean "I see you" or "it's safe to cross".  In VN, it's the opposite.  Here, the message is loud and clear:  "Get out of my way!  I don't care if you're elderly, or pregnant, or with small children, or blind, or all 4, I'm not going to slow down or go around you.  You better stop walking until I pass you by, or risk injury!"

9-  While crossing the street, raise your hand to your eye level (or higher if you're vertically challenged) with palm facing the traffic.  Wave or wiggle the fingers if you wish (my nieces' way), or keep your hand firmly up (my way).  Make sure there's nothing hanging from the wrist of that raised hand.  Your goal is to convey the STOP message, not to distract the drivers with your shopping bag.

10-  If you've ever learned to cross the streets in Rome, do the exact same way here in Saigon.  When in Saigon, do as the Roman do (in regard to street crossing that is.)

My husband and I are pedestrians.  We've crossed hundreds, if not thousands, of streets in Hanoi and Saigon.  A couple of times he had to yell at the motorcycle drivers, but 99.9% of the times, we all understand one another perfectly: no one wanted to hit us, and we knew not to disrupt the harmonious flow of traffic that would lead to us being hit.

Make eye contact with the elements of the stream.

Be the rock in the river and the traffic will flow around you.

Never run or make unexpected moves.

Then go home and hide in the closet.

Al sage advice but so so complicated. Just make eye contact with the next oncoming. Once they have aknowledged you ease forward at an even pace. It is like parting the Red Sea. I find it so so easy. My word the blind can do it.
The whole trick here in a car, motorbike or walking is eye contact.
You will really get yourself into trouble looking at girls on motorbikes with shorg skirts. Not the proper eye contact. It must be eye-to-eye. Not eye to crotch.

The 'ayes' have it.   Most are wearing masks anyway...     

Being a bikie, I know they don't ignore you: they just avoid you.

Cars, trucks and buses don't care.  Safe in their steel cocoon...

Eye contact..?   Why weren't we born with 360 degree vision..?     

It is useful to remember not to do anything unexpected, in particular don't suddenly back up when you should be going forward.  Vietnamese can take this to an extreme however. 

An incident I was involved in, I was on my bike not a pedestrian.  In fairly heavy but not fast moving traffic, I was forced to stop suddenly by the fact that the bike in front of me had done the same.  I was then struck from the rear by a young lady who had two buckets of wet tofu (Đậu hũ?) hanging from her bike and a rack of fried tofu in the back.  One of the buckets struck the rear of my bike but without enough force to cause me any harm, either personal or mechanical.  I turned briefly to check and turned back.  When the traffic began to move, the girl came alongside me and said "You are a very rude person."  I gave her an amused look and said "Why?"  She replied "Because you did not apologize."  Although her English was excellent, she was firmly rooted in the Vietnamese mindset that whoever does the unexpected in traffic is wrong.  I had had no choice but to stop due to the driver in front who actually had stopped suddenly and unexpectedly.  If anyone had done the unexpected it was he, but she was having none of that.   I told her that she should apologize to me as she had struck me but she clung to her point of view.   Beware as notions of right of way and which party is at fault can be 180 degrees from what you expect.

THIGV wrote:

It is useful to remember not to do anything unexpected, in particular don't suddenly back up when you should be going forward.  Vietnamese can take this to an extreme however. 

An incident I was involved in, I was on my bike not a pedestrian.  In fairly heavy but not fast moving traffic, I was forced to stop suddenly by the fact that the bike in front of me had done the same.  I was then struck from the rear by a young lady who had two buckets of wet tofu (Đậu hũ?) hanging from her bike and a rack of fried tofu in the back.  One of the buckets struck the rear of my bike but without enough force to cause me any harm, either personal or mechanical.  I turned briefly to check and turned back.  When the traffic began to move, the girl came alongside me and said "You are a very rude person."  I gave her an amused look and said "Why?"  She replied "Because you did not apologize."  Although her English was excellent, she was firmly rooted in the Vietnamese mindset that whoever does the unexpected in traffic is wrong.  I had had no choice but to stop due to the driver in front who actually had stopped suddenly and unexpectedly.  If anyone had done the unexpected it was he, but she was having none of that.   I told her that she should apologize to me as she had struck me but she clung to her point of view.   Beware as notions of right of way and which party is at fault can be 180 degrees from what you expect.

Vietnamese taking responsibility for their actions would be an interesting thread.

..besides the (undeniable) fact that (any) foreigner MUST be wrong...   

@ colon
Taking responsibility. Not only a great thread but a great joke. I was told once by one they are taught to never admit wrong and to defend their position, wrong as it may be to the death. I guess it is part of “ saving face”

I say "I'm sorry" to people very often, on the phone and in person, when I inconvenience them due to misunderstanding, slow-to-understand, or just plain confusion, mostly on my part.  Nine out of ten, there's no acknowledgment from them at all.  At first I thought they didn't hear me, so I apologised again.  Still no response.  After a dozen times this happened, I realised the locals didn't know how to react to a quick and readied mea culpa.

I admit to being a bit jealous...   I think the shouting option vs speaking
is their way of venting..?   But I note they don't dwell on the drama, just
'suck it up' like a true stoic and get on with the work.   Wish I could...       

Vietnamese seem to have a better grasp of reality than Westerners IMHO

Ciambella wrote:

I say "I'm sorry" to people very often, on the phone and in person, when I inconvenience them due to misunderstanding, slow-to-understand, or just plain confusion, mostly on my part.

I do too, although perhaps not as much as our Canadian cousins.    However, I do draw the line at saying it to someone who's bike hit me.  There was no misunderstanding on my part.  She hit me from the rear.  My bike did not hit hers.

What gives me irritation here in Vietnam - and actually in Asia generally is the blame storming that goes on when something goes wrong. On every project I manage I have to set the terms of problem fixing - fix the damn problem first, then retrain the person or persons at fault immediately afterwards.

I also note that there is a high requirement for "punishment" here and I think this a hangover from the days of French education. Certainly when I was working in Thailand on a major bomb clearance project, we had a two French EOD guys doing QC on the 20 teams we had working for us.

Now my view has always been that we train by using the EDIP system - Explain; Demonstrate; Imitate; Practice.  People who are slow learners get more practice and everyone gets encouragement and praise when the get things right, to build confidence.

But my two French colleagues were adamant that people should be punished for getting things wrong. The punishment they proposed was mostly stoppage of pay or part thereof.

Well, I thought about it and I just couldn't see how stopping part of someones pay, when they were only on 400 USD a month basic pay, could have any effect other than to p.ss them off.

With my system of training, those who are unable to make the grade are weeded out during the tests and exams at the end of training courses.

And the proof of the pudding here is in the fact after many many potentially dangerous operations in many countries, I have never lost a team member.

But every time I embark on a project I have to teach the staff that blame storming is secondary to putting things right - and also that incident investigations do not have the primary purpose of "finding someone to blame".

Its an uphill struggle.

THIGV wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

I say "I'm sorry" to people very often, on the phone and in person, when I inconvenience them due to misunderstanding, slow-to-understand, or just plain confusion, mostly on my part.

I do too, although perhaps not as much as our Canadian cousins.    However, I do draw the line at saying it to someone who's bike hit me.  There was no misunderstanding on my part.  She hit me from the rear.  My bike did not hit hers.

You missed an opportunity, she was just trying to get noticed by you. 

eodmatt wrote:

You missed an opportunity, she was just trying to get noticed by you. 

Had my wife been seated on the back of the bike, the young lady would have heard an earful.

eodmatt wrote:

You missed an opportunity, she was just trying to get noticed by you. 

Too true.    Remember to read the eyes...     

Gobot's advice is spot on and well explained.
Never backup, that confuses everyone and rest assured someone is aiming for that expected empty space behind you (maybe me!).