Realistic alternatives to International schools ?

Hello everyone,

As you can see, I am a new member to this forum and here goes my first post.

I have been living in Melbourne for over 14 years. Love the place and life here but my heart always yearns for the Asian vibe.

After living all of my teenage life in India, I miss the sounds(yes) and the street food culture. Recently have been to Vietnam and loved the Saigon city and so did my family.

We were looking to realistically pursue our interest in making the move to this vibrant city but hit a sort of roadblock with the educational options for my 6 yr old. After reading through a few forums, I understand that education for expat children is limited to International school, which charge an exorbitant price.  Home schooling is another suggestion, but having never done this, I am very reluctant on this approach as I feel that my child needs to be socially engaged with kids of her age.

Can anyone in this situation or having gone through this situation, please let me know if there is any mid path between these two options. Are there any study groups or a class where children are taught in English in Ho Chi Minh city?

Right now this is all I have in my mind.

Your questions , suggestions and opinions are all welcomed !!

Home schooling: I really have no clue, how legal that might be, as Vietnam has officially school for children mandatory.
Theoretical options are the local schools, but in praxis, it might fail on at least two points:

1 All in Vietnamese language. If you kid(s) not speak Vietnamese, no chance
2 Local schools quite commonly reqects students on reasons of nsufficient/wrong paperwork/localities

In this case, you are back on track for your initial thought: international school

You might have to look in FB or other social groups, families with kids in Vietnam to get some more or maybe better options. But the question is not inknown, so you could find maybe some help and first hand accounts

I agree with you about home schooling as not good for the child.

I know nothing about the international schools, but knowing how everything is negotiable here, I would not be surprised to learn that there is quite a variance in costs. Can you teach anything? Maybe you could make a deal.
Good luck.

Wxx3 :

I ...........
I know nothing about the international schools, but knowing how everything is negotiable here, I would not be surprised to learn that there is quite a variance in costs. Can you teach anything? Maybe you could make a deal.
Good luck.

I know 2 families, who where here, they left in the mean time. They also complained about the costs and also even the quality. Those international schools are just a legalized rip-off and still at least laging in quality.standards.
I have no kids, so I did not even ask in detail, but that schools where reason for my friends to leave the country

Just opinion not experience. International schools are priced for expats with relocation allowances and rich Vietnamese, not regular people. Haven't heard of a middle option.

I would research home schooling. You can google various ways:
homeschool Ho Chi Minh
homeschooling
"home schooling" with quotes etc.

I have seen a lot of discussions by expats on the topic. Reach out to them. There are FB groups, you can search this forum too. There is home schooling going on everywhere these days. The parents all have the same concerns, about socialization and how to teach effectively, so they form groups, create group classes, find tutors.
An option would be to try it for a couple years, and your child will later share your same good memories of childhood in Asia, and an education via life experience.

But: I don't have kids, and my first introduction to home schooling was when I met a semi-literate couple from a 'holler' in West Virginia who were homeschooling their three, and I decided that that was blind-leading-the-blind child abuse. But since then, I have met many adults in Calif who were homeschooled, and I guess now that it works fine if you have competent parents and they follow curriculums. Schools aren't what they used to be either.

In one way, I like the idea of home schooling. I am just worried, that those kids might fail fo a full blown social integration. School is, what your home country wants you know and experience, education is that, what you parents give you on top, if they want you to be better then school.
I will place it down, but the fear of shortcomings in social integration I even see as a serious issue.
Social failures are worse than those, who just don' t pass a test.

Actually, I just got an idea. "waldorf school", just not sure, if Vietnam has a one

I have read elsewhere that public schools are not available to foreigners even if they speak Vietnamese. I have had half-Viet, half-British children in public school classes but they were born in Vietnam and not true foreigners.  As far as homeschooling, I think the corollary to not allowing foreign students in public schools is that the government really doesn't care if Expat children go to school or not. 

It certainly seems like the idea of a cooperative arrangement with a group of parents may be the best solution. Although there may be a pay chasm between higher level employees of foreign corporations who can utilize international schools and ESL teachers, the cost of living probably means a family can live on one salary leaving the other spouse to serve as the "teacher" at home.   High school students maybe can be taught on a single basis but there are lots of reasons to have younger children in groups.   Remember that in Kindergarten, one of the traditional grades is for "Plays well with others"

I see a number of common points mentioned. Yes kids only at home, that would seriously worry me, how they will do later on society.
At home, papa is always the best papa  and little le sunnyboy is also always the best. No competition, no need for improvement.

Also mixed marriages and children, same I did hear is well. Again only second hand but someone, who i take serious.
I also know for sure, that the registration of such child just after birth is also not that easy. (Not subject).

Especially for indians also a lot of nutritional issues seem to arise . A few days ago someone even posted for rice and spices.

As OP I definitely would try to clarify that issues AND secure as far as possible a job is well.
Vietnam is not really that open and friendly to foreigners as officially published. There are hundreds of hurdles to take and after most is even a bloody sinkhole.
Yep it's not hostile, it's not racist, but very "polite racist"

gobot :

But: I don't have kids, and my first introduction to home schooling was when I met a semi-literate couple from a 'holler' in West Virginia who were homeschooling their three, and I decided that that was blind-leading-the-blind child abuse. But since then, I have met many adults in Calif who were homeschooled, and I guess now that it works fine if you have competent parents and they follow curriculums. Schools aren't what they used to be either.

There is plenty of research on this subject matter in the USA and all are consistent, Home schooled kids perform better academically than those attending school, including results on SAT, ACT and college success and graduation.  With respect to socialization, likewise, home schooled children have no issues with socialization and score higher, based on studies.  Of course there will be outliers like what you experienced in WV, but that is not the norm. 

However, one cannot equate home schooling results with those in VN.  But one needs to decide whether they want to spend a boat load of money vs. home schooling and what will get the better result for their child.

https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/

I wouldn't be surprised if the West Virginia family that Gobot knew of was homeschooling for religious reasons.  In the US, many homeschool to avoid having their children take such satanic subjects as evolution along with assertions that the earth is more than 10,000 years old which they know by adding up the lives of the prophets in Genesis.  Their objective is not learning but ignorance.  Those who homeschool in Vietnam, seem to do so mostly out of economic necessity.

vndreamer :
gobot :

But: I don't have kids, and my first introduction to home schooling was when I met a semi-literate couple from a 'holler' in West Virginia who were homeschooling their three, and I decided that that was blind-leading-the-blind child abuse. But since then, I have met many adults in Calif who were homeschooled, and I guess now that it works fine if you have competent parents and they follow curriculums. Schools aren't what they used to be either.

There is plenty of research on this subject matter in the USA and all are consistent, Home schooled kids perform better academically than those attending school, including results on SAT, ACT and college success and graduation.  With respect to socialization, likewise, home schooled children have no issues with socialization and score higher, based on studies.  Of course there will be outliers like what you experienced in WV, but that is not the norm. 

However, one cannot equate home schooling results with those in VN.  But one needs to decide whether they want to spend a boat load of money vs. home schooling and what will get the better result for their child.

https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/

I don't want to hijack this thread, but just have to say that while home-schooled kids do well on those tests. Life is not the SAT.
In the workplace, you must know how to deal with the idiots, bullies and everyone else. It's easier when you are 10, than 25.
In the USA, the home-school faction is used my many because they perceive society to be not good enough for their kids., which is usually based on some religious belief, like evolution.

That is not a recipe for success for the kids.

It's also illegal in many states.

Wxx3 :
vndreamer :
gobot :

But: I don't have kids, and my first introduction to home schooling was when I met a semi-literate couple from a 'holler' in West Virginia who were homeschooling their three, and I decided that that was blind-leading-the-blind child abuse. But since then, I have met many adults in Calif who were homeschooled, and I guess now that it works fine if you have competent parents and they follow curriculums. Schools aren't what they used to be either.

There is plenty of research on this subject matter in the USA and all are consistent, Home schooled kids perform better academically than those attending school, including results on SAT, ACT and college success and graduation.  With respect to socialization, likewise, home schooled children have no issues with socialization and score higher, based on studies.  Of course there will be outliers like what you experienced in WV, but that is not the norm. 

However, one cannot equate home schooling results with those in VN.  But one needs to decide whether they want to spend a boat load of money vs. home schooling and what will get the better result for their child.

https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/

I don't want to hijack this thread, but just have to say that while home-schooled kids do well on those tests. Life is not the SAT.
In the workplace, you must know how to deal with the idiots, bullies and everyone else. It's easier when you are 10, than 25.
In the USA, the home-school faction is used my many because they perceive society to be not good enough for their kids., which is usually based on some religious belief, like evolution.

That is not a recipe for success for the kids.

It's also illegal in many states.

You should do some research and if you read the study, you would see  that your assumptions are incorrect (e.g., home schooling is legal in all 50 states).

Great to see all your messages regarding this issue. All this is valuable information. As suggested I will check if there are any study groups that operate in the city. Also some people in other forums suggested that employers sometimes pay part of the education fees. I do not know if this is the case with MNC companies in Ho Chi Minh City.

nishasingh3 :

Also some people in other forums suggested that employers sometimes pay part of the education fees. I do not know if this is the case with MNC companies in Ho Chi Minh City.

Highly dependent on your worth and position but, yes, education should be standard in all international relocation packages.

vndreamer :

https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/.

That's a great source. Just watch out for the cool-aide.
I don't know why I bother.

Wxx3 :
vndreamer :

https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/.

That's a great source. Just watch out for the cool-aide.
I don't know why I bother.

I understand, but I prefer to look at facts more than opinion.  There are always those who are on the edges of a bell curve, but I prefer the high percentages inside the bell.  :)

Kupo :
nishasingh3 :

Also some people in other forums suggested that employers sometimes pay part of the education fees. I do not know if this is the case with MNC companies in Ho Chi Minh City.

Highly dependent on your worth and position but, yes, education should be standard in all international relocation packages.

Education should be mandatory for everyone by international standards, something like college mandatory for 80% of the population and 20% might be by exception below college or in other units;
The cost of a semester/schooling year is capped at something like the average yearly income.

This would prevent definitely drastic exclusions from education, enable access to education and leave enough margins for private  investment.

TTo support this, there could be a very simple formula: company requires at least 100% college education staff, so they have to pay education tax of  x% for 100% of theyr work force ....

The first positive result would be, that no Master of Business xxx or PhD is required to clean WCs

There are certain topics where the differences take on an almost religious nature.  Organic farming is an example.  Everyone is either a skeptic or a true believer.  It seems this may be one of those topics.

"Education should be mandatory for everyone by international standards, something like college mandatory for 80% of the population"

Not going to happen in your lifetime.  The USA alone, only 1/3 of the population has a 4 year degree.  based on the most recent census data in 2017

"Just over a third of American adults have a four-year college degree, the highest level ever measured by the U.S. Census Bureau."

It has increased slightly since 2009, but I found this breakout by race very interesting:

"Looking at a 99-year history as reported by the US Bureau of the Census, the number of Americans (25-years and older) holding college degrees has been on a steady incline from 2.7 to 29.5% (1910-2009). Approximately one-third of all Americans hold a college degree.

But the scale is tilted.  By ethnicity in 2003, Americans holding Bachelor’s degrees or higher:

> Asian                           49.8%
> Caucasian                   27.6%
> African American      17.3%
> Native American        11.5%
> Hispanic                     11.4%"

Thus, if you take out the Asian graduates, you can surmise just how low the rest of the American population is that does not have a 4 yr college degree.  Most people would never believe it, neither did I until I took a Sociology class as an undergrad.  Still cannot believe how low it is in the USA.

Lol, from schooling to farming. I am actually a big fan of banning all food industries as industry. Food production is farming/agriculture at a level of responsibility about 100 years ago.
Producing bad products, tampering with foods ... go and face the judge and/or go bankrupt. Meat was meat, without chemicals, In the milk jar was milk and not sugared water. Waste meat was for waste and not for the sausage.  Spice's without chemicals flavours .. A yoghurt was yoghurt, today from 50grams are most likely 49 pure cehmistry and another 1/2 gram plastic packaging.
Food was sold near there, where it was produced.
No investment bankers and investors pocketing 90% or more with speculation. No idiot chairman, who can't distinguish between a potato and a horse...
Cows and pigs did see see the outside world, chickens dd run in yards ....

No food producer should be allowed bigger, then the owner can be held personally and fully responsible at all times. Today, a thousand people die of some chemical agents inside the food .. Unxxxxr or whatever name pays a fine. Nexxx steals the water from most dry locations world wide and packs it in plastics ....., and that's it. nobody gets taken to the judge

vndreamer :

"Education should be mandatory for everyone by international standards, something like college mandatory for 80% of the population"

Not going to happen in your lifetime.  The USA alone, only 1/3 of the population has a 4 year degree.  based on the most recent census data in 2017

"Just over a third of American adults have a four-year college degree, the highest level ever measured by the U.S. Census Bureau."

It has increased slightly since 2009, but I found this breakout by race very interesting:

"Looking at a 99-year history as reported by the US Bureau of the Census, the number of Americans (25-years and older) holding college degrees has been on a steady incline from 2.7 to 29.5% (1910-2009). Approximately one-third of all Americans hold a college degree.

But the scale is tilted.  By ethnicity in 2003, Americans holding Bachelor’s degrees or higher:

> Asian                           49.8%
> Caucasian                   27.6%
> African American      17.3%
> Native American        11.5%
> Hispanic                     11.4%"

Thus, if you take out the Asian graduates, you can surmise just how low the rest of the American population is that does not have a 4 yr college degree.  Most people would never believe it, neither did I until I took a Sociology class as an undergrad.  Still cannot believe how low it is in the USA.

.. and if I look at especially those, who are having "intelligence" within their work places, I can tell you, they have either only bought their diploma or just went to there, to  pi.. lecturers off.
I think recently, Putin and influencing elections ..., my thought, if he would have done, the current president would be Putin and not Trump   and parralle to: Trump and Clinton remain as only candidates.... If intelligence alone would matter, both of them would have not even made on the candidate lists.

Therefore I still say, intelligence has nothing to do with education and neither leads education to intelligence.
The only intelligent people are those, who are lazy, because they find out out, how to,get something done, without even working.
Education is a basic set of elementary knowledge in a variety of subjects, which just gts a kind of copied, sufficient to survive.

Native Americans ... I still believe, there are only very  few, as native Americans where not really "white".

Apart from "native" issues, this is all to few, and confirms again, that money alone can create titles.

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