BREXIT

My opinion - as of now, nothing has been agreed, so I have no idea of the detail related to what will happen post 29 March 2019; nobody knows.  The UK Government have issued a batch of guidance document related to what they think will happen in the UK if there is no deal between the UK and the EU; you can access them all from this link.

Cameron was a fool to even consider offering a referendum on leaving/remaining in the EU; he was even more foolish to promise to implement the decision of the referendum, thus putting the British Government in a bad place because referendums are not normally given that kind of status.  That said, I can understand why he did what he did, but I guess nobody ever thought it would end as it did, I certainly didn't.

You are right of course, at least so far as nothing has been agreed.  As for Cameron being a fool; well I doubt being a fool qualifies you to become Prime Minister of Great Britain. Still, it is your opinion that he is a fool. Personally I doubt it.

As for putting the government in a bad position: It is easy, with hindsight, to take such a stance. Had it been the other way around would you be singing his praises? I too didn't think the nation would vote in favour of Brexit. I wonder if that makes you and I a fool also? I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised!

No, not hindsight, a referendum in the UK has never been binding (and they still aren't - Parliament is always sovereign), the thing that screwed him was his commitment to making this one binding, which his successor carried on with - she didn't have to do it, having very publicly voted remain and being voted in as Party Leader/Prime Minister with that known by all.

My opinion of Cameron's foolishness comes from him offering an outcome that the Government had not prepared to implement; to the extent that shortly after the vote, despite him saying "The will of the British people is an instruction that must be delivered", he then walked away from it; I guess he had assumed getting a remain decision and didn't know where to start - we'll never find out till his memoirs are leaked in the press.

I just wish they would get on with it and leave, it has split the country in two and the continual desperation of the remainers is driving me mad.

I think we disagree on a couple of points and agree on others, not bad at all! The 'hindsight' refers to the outcome of the referendum. I have never seen anywhere that the referendum was/is binding. I think that is just another one of those 'myths' surrounding the argument and suits people who want to remain to argue that point.

That the referendum result was carried through, in my view, was absolutely correct. Had the result been to remain then  that result would also have been correct. What is the point of a referendum if the majority voting in favour, one way or another , is ignored? It is nonsensical. I am totally against a second referendum, not because of my belief that the U.K. should not be part of the E.U.; I would think the same if the result had been to remain.

Perhaps if the issues are still profound enough another vote, in say, five or ten years could be held to decide if we should ask to rejoin!!! As for splitting the country in two: I think the press make much of that but I don't believe it. Yes we know how many voted for and how many against. That doesn't divide the country though and a few thousand people with all sorts of agendas, from 'ban the Bomb' to 'I hate Trump' marching through London doesn't make me believe the country is divided. I suppose the same point could be made after any General election!

I never liked Cameron, I thought him a poor Prime Minister detached from reality and was probably well illustrated in his taking the decision to hold a referendum. I have serious doubts about Mrs May also. I don't like the way she has handled herself at all. She has misjudged disastrously the true mood of the country. Then again who else is there, Boris or Corbyn?

Like you I want it settled and over with. Personally I would have walked away from the negotiations long ago. I understand why the E.U. is being as it is but the U.K. has been weak I feel. On verra bien!!!

LOL - see, we can discuss Brexit without being moderated.

To quote Cameron from his speech on 21 June 2016 (2 days before the vote), where he made his plea to remain (you can read the whole thing here):

David Cameron wrote:

“......... and remember: they can't undo the decision we take.  If we vote out, that's it, it is irreversible, we will leave Europe – for good and the next generation will have to live with the consequences far longer than the rest of us.

So, the British Prime Minister effectively made the referendum decision binding ..... the rest is history.

All the comments from those who are trying to turn the result around always seem to ignore one simple fact, we voted to leave and the quote from the British Prime Minister (above) spells out quite clearly what that meant.  If they want to rejoin, then there is a process for doing that, they would be well advised to follow it; there is nothing to stop a future UK Government from applying to join the European Union.

Cynic wrote:

Cameron was a fool to even consider offering a referendum on leaving/remaining in the EU; he was even more foolish to promise to implement the decision of the referendum,.

There was a large public movement against membership of a group no one had ever voted to join and was very unpopular. Only Scotland remaining in the UK made the vote even close to even but, at the end of the day, the majority voted to leave and politicians are supposed to follow the will of the people.
He might very well have been politically stupid, but the result proved holding the vote was the right thing to do as far as the majority were concerned.
All this second vote rubbish is of no concern or you open the door to second votes on everything, even general elections.
I can see it now, the "my party didn't win" lot demanding a new election, then the first lot demanding another to change it back.
Referendum held, won by the leave majority, end of story unless you want chaos.

The useless set of twits in parliament that couldn't set up a boozy party in a brewery are to blame for the mess we see at the moment. The lot are a bunch of wimps without the slightest clue about much - blame them, not the majority of voters.

...or you could always kick out the government by force and create a peoples' popular revolution with military rule and all that goes with it. Right or left wing makes little difference, you'd end up with roughly the same mess, just with a different sort of flag.

Vote over - now keep kicking the politicians so they make the best of it for Britain, something they're failing to do in epic fashion because they're all pathetic wimps (All parties).

This is a non aligned message with a noted bent toward respecting democracy but not wimpy politicians, those including the leaders of all three major UK parties, all of whom are unfit to empty dustbins on a Barnsley council estate, much less run UK politics.

To be fair, we did vote to join the Common Market; my entire Regiment was put on parade and told to go and vote (600 odd of us did exactly that).

I'm a firm believer in the old adage that if a politician's lips are moving, then he or she's probably lying.

Cynic wrote:

To be fair, we did vote to join the Common Market;

The EEC, yes, but never for the EU.
That's like claiming you voted for the end of school milk because you voted for a tax on beer.

I think, more to the point is that it is a very long time since we joined and now have seen it's not a particularly  good arrangement, hence the referendum.  Personally I'm pleased we are leaving. I do not know what is in store but I want my country to be independent; that is number one for me.

Fred wrote:

Cynic wrote:

To be fair, we did vote to join the Common Market;

The EEC, yes, but never for the EU.
That's like claiming you voted for the end of school milk because you voted for a tax on beer.

I voted for leave, not for any obtuse reason, just that we don't need the EU to create another layer of politicians and bureaucracy for our national politicians to hide behind; we need less of it, not more.