SAVE OUR SONG BIRDS !

Hi poodlefan2,

Please note that your topic has been moved to the Expat Cafe - open discussions forum.

Thank you,

Priscilla
Expat.com team

In my backyard here in Moscow. There are some unattractive black headed birds with grey bodied. And an assortment of pigeons. Occasionally a small yellow breasted bird sits on the open window sill. His or her name is unfamiliar. News that there is a problem with insects. And astounded to learn of the verocious appetite of cats!
Thanks for the INFO!

Yes, in many countries in europe there is only 25 % of insects left... City people are completely disconnected with nature and it's deplorable. They cannot make the difference between a sparrow and a song bird. Most of them know nothing about wildlife. They just live in their concrete and are not interested or have no conscience about their surroundings. They all forget that humans, too, are animals and in the eyes of mother nature, we are all equal.

Well, I don't think mother nature thinks we're all equal, Poodle. Mother nature invented the law of the jungle, remember, and in the jungle smaller animals tend to get beaten up - and sometimes eaten up - by the bigger ones.

I have no problem with insects being reduced to 25% of their number, at all. The problem is that it's the wrong 25%. Mosquitoes, I would like reduced to 0%. Also flies and wasps.

Also, when people live "in their concrete", concrete is their surroundings.

poodlefan2 wrote:

Most of them know nothing about wildlife. They just live in their concrete and are not interested or have no conscience about their surroundings.

Many places, its not that don't want too, its the fact they can not afford to travel to the countryside from innercities.

Well if we had the amount of birds, we had 50 years ago, we would have less mosquitos, flies and other pest !
So if you want song birds, start buying live mealworms instead of spending your money in things you don't need !!! Materialism is killing our planet !!

And concrete and roads are killing each year, billions of wild animals too !!! Who give us the right to do so much damage among other species ???

Who would you want to eradicate mosquitos and flies ??? all swallows and bats feed on mosquitos and flies ! a bat every night eat her body weight with mosquitos ! What need to be done is save our birds and bats, if you want less mosquitos and do everything we can to attract them in our yards ! Human like you want to kill everything that bother them, without thinking of the consequences for other species !

And it is also said with response to the " concrete " city. Without good government. People would be eaten alive!

Why are you focused on birds when there are millions of people starving to death?

I commend anyone for their concern for nature but have to question the strategies you suggest. The problem for insects and birds themselves is the diminishing natural environment. Buying meal worms is not the solution. Sounds like you are advertising for a worm selling scheme. One needs to support plots of land being left to nature without pesticides, herbicides or cutting the grass. One cannot artificially feed all of nature; one needs to restore their habitat. One can plant flowers and plants without chemicals in flower pots on their balcony or leave a section of any garden to grow wild. Even better is to encourage farmers, or municipalities to leave plots of land, like alongside of roads, to nature.

And yes, some cats are notorious for hunting birds. But many can also be conditioned not to. The idea that one can leave a cat on a string or leash is false. Doesn't work! I've had cats for years and even conditioned more than one to take walks on a leash. But unlike dogs, cats can get off of EVERY leash by pulling backwards. They have to have a certain level of cooperation to walk them. Left alone. there is no way to effectively restrain them.

metalhead9 wrote:

Why are you focused on birds when there are millions of people starving to death?

Where are millions starving? Yes, there are some places, especially war zones where there are problems with people getting enough to eat. But one problem doesn't negative the seriousness of the other. Allowing the environment to be degraded only leads to further hunger. Without insects and birds many foods won't be available since pollination depends on them. Destroying nature will make the earth uninhabitable for mankind.

Sorry but I have 11 bird houses and to make sure that the next generation of song birds make it, yes, I buy live mealworms by the kilo !! I want to see these young bird fly away and not fall on the ground because they suffer from malnutrition ! so yes I rather spend my money doing this than buying stuff !!

when it comes to cats, in france like in the usa there are laws ! your cats cannot roam free ! just like dogs they have to be on a leash ! so yes the solution is to tie your cat to a long string just as I have seen hunters do it.. and the cats will get use to it and be perfectly content ! cats are not a domestic species, but an introduced domestic species that was introduced by the grecs. Cats are native of egypte ! so it is an invasive specie and it's decimating our fauna ! google cats and fauna and educate yourself ! countries like new zealand no longer want them on their territory, because they have decimated around 20 species of birds there ! but as cat lovers all you love are your cats, and you just do not care if beautiful animals like birds get to be eaten alive !!!

BECAUSE WILDLIFE IS AS IMPORTANT AS PEOPLE !! Who give you the right to think that animals are inferior species and that they do not matter ?? in the eyes of nature, animals and humans are EQUAL ! Also, animals do not destroy the planet when humans do ! sorry but I feel sorry for all other species that are suffering because of human destructive actions and yes, they should be given rights just as we have !
I would advise you to watch 2 american documentaries named earthlings and unity !
Animals see us as monsters and we are monsters !!!

But insects pollinate the food you eat ! without insects we will starve to death !! educate yourself !
if all the insects are gone it will be the end of humanity and all the rest !

poodlefan2 wrote:

But insects pollinate the food you eat ! without insects we will starve to death !! educate yourself !
if all the insects are gone it will be the end of humanity and all the rest !

Animals pollinate not just insects. In fact, the wind is another way. Maybe you need to educate yourself!!

Mother nature does not care if you're an animal or a human, if a flood or a hurricane, happens it will kill people just as it kills animals ! You forget that biologically humans are animals, like it or not !

Well since you think I am promoting mealworms, don't you buy seeds to feed birds ??? it's the same thing but all birds feed their young with insects and if we do not help them by offering them mealworms, we have entire generation of birds, lost ! so yes, this is why I promote feeding birds mealworms so we can help save futur generations of song birds ! Also if you wonder why we don't see more dead birds it's because sick and dying birds hide to die.

I wish you would ease up on the exclamation marks. I feel like you're shouting at me.

I watched Earthlings, and I agree with much of what you're saying, including that animals have rights. But there's a critical point that needs to be highlighted. Let me ask you a question, since you believe all life is equal.

With each breath you take, microorganisms enter your body and are immediately attacked by your internal body functions. Are you a monster for killing life? If your body stops attacking and killing these microorganisms, for even a few minutes, you'd likely die. There's a war happening inside your body throughout your entire life. Sometimes your body is on the losing side, and you get a fever. In the few seconds it took you to read this paragraph, your body killed billions of microorganisms. So this killing, is it the same as what Mussolini did?

What is life? Is mitochondria alive? Would you equate stepping on grass to stepping on a child?

The issue boils down to metaphysics, religion and respect. We should respect all life as much as reasonably possible, but let's not forget we live in a murderous dog-eat-dog world. Even the most environmentally-conscious among us is leaving a footprint that is damaging nature and harming the world. But that doesn't mean a person who strives to minimize his footprint is the same as one who intends to hurt the environment. In my belief system, these two are on opposite ends of the spectrum with animals in the middle.

I find peoples' ignorance on human poverty these days very distressing. We people are one people living in one holistic system. We will either survive and prosper together, or we will all be extinguished together.

Then time to share the wealth, if there are so many poor people today, it's because of the greedy rich that own most of the planet.

metalhead9 wrote:

....With each breath you take, microorganisms enter your body and are immediately attacked by your internal body functions. Are you a monster for killing life? .....

What is life? Is mitochondria alive? Would you equate stepping on grass to stepping on a child?
....

Even if microorganisms could feel pain, attacking them is permissible:

1) It's self-defence.
2) I'm not consciously making a choice whether to attack or not.

If the grass I step on gives off some clue that its in pain, I will stop walking on it.

poodlefan2 wrote:

Sorry but I have 11 bird houses and to make sure that the next generation of song birds make it, yes, I buy live mealworms by the kilo !! I want to see these young bird fly away and not fall on the ground because they suffer from malnutrition ! so yes I rather spend my money doing this than buying stuff !!

when it comes to cats, in france like in the usa there are laws ! your cats cannot roam free ! just like dogs they have to be on a leash ! so yes the solution is to tie your cat to a long string just as I have seen hunters do it.. and the cats will get use to it and be perfectly content ! cats are not a domestic species, but an introduced domestic species that was introduced by the grecs. Cats are native of egypte ! so it is an invasive specie and it's decimating our fauna ! google cats and fauna and educate yourself ! countries like new zealand no longer want them on their territory, because they have decimated around 20 species of birds there ! but as cat lovers all you love are your cats, and you just do not care if beautiful animals like birds get to be eaten alive !!!

Not true. Cats are allowed to roam free in both the USA and France. I've lived both places and had cats. There might be some incidents of local regulation but it's not a common thing in either country. What some regulations do is to say that an animal like a cat does in fact regularly kill birds or other animals then it must be limited so it cannot do so. This is very different than blankly forbidding all cats to go outside, even alone. 

And yes, cats are domesticated. You seem to be terribly confused by the concepts of endemic and domesticated and about the problem of invasive species vs. the situation with people's housecats.  The typical cats most popular around the world have roots in Egypt but so what? There are native feline species throughout the world including wild cats and lynx in Euro, pumas in the US etc. Lots of animals have been introduced across the world by mankind, so what? If you think animals and plants should only exist where they originally evolved then you are not very bright since species also spread on their own. Nothing against songbirds but saying cats can't go outside is just ignorant. Again, the problem is loss of habitat and that people in North Africa for example catch them to eat with nets. This is terrible because the amount of meat one gets from eating a songbird is so minimal in light of the environmental destruction their loss brings.

And again, one CANNOT just tie a cat to a string. Yes, some people take cats out on a leash but this is because they cooperate having been conditioned to. To leave a cat alone on a leash doesn't work. Cats can get off every leash. Their heads are small enough compared to their neck, unlike dogs, that they can always pull backwards and escape. To make a leash tight enough around the neck to stop this would strangle them. This is FACT.  And sure, bird feeders are a good idea. But birdseed is most common. Mealworms are better given dry than live if at all. The trouble and mess of live mealworms is totally unnecessary.

I will repeat that I support protecting the environment and this includes habitat and animals like songbirds. But using nonsensical arguments for such things is just counter-productive.

You are wrong, there are cat leash laws just as for dogs ! Cats are not allowed to roam free, it's just that laws are not applied. Cats must be on strings or on a leash. I don't see why our dogs cannot roam free and your cats can.. they do so much damaged among wildlife it would be no sense if there were no laws for them... people are irresponsible, stubborn and uneducated. and when you love your animals, you keep them with you and in you homes ! I could not imagine leaving my poodles roam free with all the danger there is. if your cat gets run over by a car, or get killed by a coyote or a fox, then you are responsible for his death and to me anyone who live their cats roams, do not love their animals.

poodlefan2 wrote:

You are wrong, there are cat leash laws just as for dogs ! Cats are not allowed to roam free, it's just that laws are not applied. Cats must be on strings or on a leash. I don't see why our dogs cannot roam free and your cats can.. they do so much damaged among wildlife it would be no sense if there were no laws for them... people are irresponsible, stubborn and uneducated. and when you love your animals, you keep them with you and in you homes ! I could not imagine leaving my poodles roam free with all the danger there is. if your cat gets run over by a car, or get killed by a coyote or a fox, then you are responsible for his death and to me anyone who live their cats roams, do not love their animals.

I really am not sure what planet you are on! Cats are natural born hunters and should not be tied up. Cats are kept in most countries just because they are good hunters (About 40% of all mammal species are rodents (2,277 species) this is why they are kept not just as cuddly pets, they also don't need to be taken care of much so another reason why they are kept.

100% true  Unfortunitly materialism is absolutely is killing our planet we are becoming more and more disconnected from the nature all by all nowadays uffff

Sorry, I just reread your first post again. I am not going to keep my cat locked indoors. That's just plain cruel! Who says they will live longer? Who says they will be healthier?

As I have said before, Cats are a native specie from egypte ! so they are an introduced domesticated specie that is doing a lots of damage on our wildlife !! talking about rodents, they also do kill baby and juvenile rabbits ! so yes, they are a pest ! and they destroy all the food supplies, natural predators feed on and we now see birds of prey whose young are suffering from malnutrition and even starve. So as I said before, wildlife are animals too, and when you love animals you have to do all you can to protect them but you, cat owners, only care for your killer cats because cats are true killers and the worst of all predators in the natural world ! So yes, we need to protect our songbirds who are so vital !!  How can you not too ?? it's not because they are small and wild that you have to look at them with comptent !

As I have said before, Cats are a native specie from egypte ! so they are an introduced domesticated specie that is doing a lots of damage on our wildlife !! talking about rodents, they also do kill baby and juvenile rabbits ! so yes, they are a pest ! and they destroy all the food supplies, natural predators feed on and we now see birds of prey whose young are suffering from malnutrition and even starve. So as I said before, wildlife are animals too, and when you love animals you have to do all you can to protect them but you, cat owners, only care for your killer cats because cats are true killers and the worst of all predators in the natural world ! So yes, we need to protect our songbirds who are so vital !!  How can you not too ?? it's not because they are small and wild that you have to look at them with comptent !

Do they kill rabbits? Good, that keeps the population down of Rabbits which are a pest.

Rabbits is a main food source for many small predators ! many parts of france no longer have rabbits, and then you complain that fox, coyotes, and other predators go after your chicken ! all predators feeds on rabbits, so if you eliminate rabbits, wildlife starves and do not find enough food to feed their young !

Start blaming hunters who eradicate foxes and coyotes !! if we have too many rabbits it's because there is no longer enough predators, so again it's humans that destroy the balance in nature not the other way around !!! Wolves were eradicated to almost extinction, they too, feed on rabbits ! You get what you deserve when you upset the balance of nature and want to control everything !

Hi poodlefan2,

I'm glad to see your exclamation count is decreasing. And I'm surprised this thread is still going.

I blame selfish people, hunters, rich people and rabbits, mostly, for what's wrong with the world today. I'd like to share the lyrics of a song that I feel ties all of these themes together. This is No Hoard of Value by metal band Jinjer.

Hey, caveman!
When did you see the sky last time?
How deep is
That treasure you are told to find?
The reflect of what you feel, what you breathe
Is that what you really are?
Caveman!
Hey, caveman, what's your life so far?
Quench your thirst with a spit
Satisfy your hunger with shit
Make a bed full of trash
Do you think you're doing well?
Wash your face in some sweat
Out of shame and disrespect
Day by day wake up in sorrow
And go to work in hell!
Poverty and hunger are everything
That's waiting for you outside
Stay in here! They will take care of you
Relax, you are unlikely to endure
Caveman!
When did you see the sky last time?
How deep is
That treasure you are told to find?
The reflect of what you feel, what you breathe
Is that what you really are?
Caveman!
Hey, caveman, what's your life so far?
Once the dust ate your eyes away
And donated sweetest apathy
But still you sense your brothers' hollow heartbeat
And gruff voices of your family
I can see furrows on this face fouled with fly-ash
There's nothing remained but a tiny piece of coal in your chest
Bygone world was depredated long ago
Now, they are here to plunder your home
But don't mourn!
Shit!
Abandon all hopes about freedom.
No hoard of value can replace it
Abandon all hopes about freedom
No hoard of value can replace it.
Punch a blunt fang of this rusty cavil into stones!
Come on and fracture another course to the better world!
Get down to work!
Dig!
Harder!
Faster!
Deeper!
Harder!
Dig!
Harder!
Faster!
Deeper!
Harder!
Dig!
Harder!
Faster!
Deeper and harder!
Dig!
Harder!
Faster!
Deeper!
Harder!
Dig!

Each person, in trying to find their sustenance, inevitably play some role, big or small, in destroying the world. Aiming for the greener grass, and oblivious that our hearts yearn for what we already had - family, purity, simplicity - we spend more of our time, wealth and energy doing nothing but destroy ourselves and the world. We are cavemen!

Unless you're Sentinelese or a member of some remote Amazon tribe that is.

The prospects of a sustainable future is dwindling. But we never lose hope.

Here is a picture of some flamingos here in Saudi Arabia. They're just beautiful. They fly down here every winter.

Nevermind. Just google it. I can't get the code to work.

Hello

You sound like an american.. are you ? where do you live ? and if in the usa, what state ? You sound like an oregon guy.. I love oregon ! the most pristine state in the whole usa.

I'm Jordanian and I live in Saudi Arabia. I used to live in the US, but I never visited Oregon. From the pictures, it seems like a beautiful place.

Yes, Oregon is the most beautiful and pristine state in the all usa... Saudi arabia ?? ****

poodlefan2 wrote:

You are wrong, there are cat leash laws just as for dogs ! Cats are not allowed to roam free, it's just that laws are not applied. Cats must be on strings or on a leash. I don't see why our dogs cannot roam free and your cats can.. they do so much damaged among wildlife it would be no sense if there were no laws for them... people are irresponsible, stubborn and uneducated. and when you love your animals, you keep them with you and in you homes ! I could not imagine leaving my poodles roam free with all the danger there is. if your cat gets run over by a car, or get killed by a coyote or a fox, then you are responsible for his death and to me anyone who live their cats roams, do not love their animals.

Totally untrue! And the reason there are leash laws for dogs and not for cats is that dogs can bite people, domestic cats never attack people if you leave them alone. And cats are much healthier if they get to go outside; lack of nature is not good for any animals. Yes, some people might live in places where it is simply too dangerous because of busy roads to let their cats out but your basic claims are truly delusional. As a cat owner I have to say you seem to be projecting your own hate of cats onto others. And your posts are truly bigoted against Muslims and men. Of course one can find examples of bad ones but to make the kind of generalizations you do is nonsense.  But none of this has to do with immigration or being an expat.