Blocked Bank Account

I have no useful advice to offer. This is another of those examples where, when something goes wrong it seems almost impossible to get around it. In my experience, generally things work as they should but, when they don't - heaven help you.

Maybe this thing about identity is some Europe wide thing because I had a running battle with a UK bank about exactly the same thing - proving I was who I said I was and proving I lived where I said I lived. Considering they have been sending me mail to the same address and that I've had an account with them for over 40 years it seemed really stupid.

I have no idea of your personal circumstances but could you open another account to get around the problems? The freezing sounds to be a bank matter rather than a legal embargo so if you could open another account you would be able to pay and receive money there whilst you sort the other bank out. By the way it says on my green certificate that it cannot be used to verify my identity.

The only legal ID. U.K. nationals have is their original passport

I suggest you go to your bank, produce your passport.  If they say that is not enough demand the complaints form and COMPLETE it if they do not resolve the problem there and then

Hi guys,

Yes, I think that these are my only options - find another bank for the time being so that my clients can actually pay me, and in the meantime submit a complaints form. I mean, I can't be the only English person in Spain who's opened an account with Santander and who only has a passport and a NIE. So to ask me for anything else seems ridiculous. The stupid thing is that the people in the actual branch agree that it should be fine, but they are being told by some office far away that it isn't.

Many thanks,

Chris

I was asked yesterday by my Spanish bank, for proof that my DWP came from DWP.   It is paid directly through the banking system to my bank account.  I asked if they would give me a letter to prove that, so that I could give the letter to them !!

They also wanted proof of where the monthly DD  paid into my wife's account came from.  It is from our joint account, paid to my wife's account in same  bank

They gave a list of about 20 documents which they said the government insisted they must see to proof my income.   After some ‘discussion' they accepted my P60 which related only to my U.K. crown pension which is paid directly into my U.K. account.   I explained that my P60 pension had no connection whatsoever with the money in my spanish account.  So a pointless exercise !!!

Incidentally my son who is non resident in Spain but will be autónomo soon whilst remaining as non resident, opened an account a week ago with just his passport and NIE  cert ( white paper).

Hi,
Some banks are rigourous with this question. The bank cannot totally freeze your account, it freezes inputs (they don't allow money to come in your account) but you can empty your account and close it. Many other banks can open you an account with that NIE document and there is even one important spanish bank that can open it with just your passport.

I understand that banks are not permitted by law to allow one to operate an account until hey have the NIE,  that is the fiscal ID number 

  So whilst one can open an account they should not be allowed to operate it

Johncar wrote:

I understand that banks are not permitted by law to allow one to operate an account until hey have the NIE,  that is the fiscal ID number 

  So whilst one can open an account they should not be allowed to operate it

I don't know about the law, but I know Sabadell opened an account for us using only our US passport numbers, not our NIEs.

We had the NIE issued (the number itself was on our visa page in our passport) but they did not use it, saying that they wouldn't until we were actually issued our TIEs with the NIE printed on them.

Banking regulations, requirements, etc seem to vary so widely from bank to bank, branch to branch, and even person to person within the *same* branch that it's amazing to me that they keep anyone's money straight.

My wife has gone to the same branch two days in a row, talked with two different people, gotten two different answers, went back a third day when both people were there, asked them to sort it out, and left 20 minutes later with those two people still arguing about who was right! (She went to a different branch where we have a relationship with the branch manager, who always gets things sorted for us.)

Welcome to Spain, folks. Does so well at some things, so poorly at others... like anywhere, I suppose.

It is not that the law varies but many who are required to administer the rules established by law are not legally qualified so often get it wrong.   

That is not uncommon in many countries and cannot be relied upon to hope that when wrongly administered others will be able to get away with doing thing incorrectly rather than as the law demands.

Many thanks to everyone with their input. It seems that I will just have to pay for my social security the old-fashioned way, in cash, and hope for the best come January!

Catling   I just glanced though your post again.   

From what you say you moved to Spain in June. That being so you were obliged to register on the EU Citizens Register immediately.  You were not legally able to apply for just an NIE which you say you did. 

Technically you mislead the police when you submitted that application because had you said you had moved here they would not have permitted the application for just an NIE.

You seem to have opened a non residents account,  Then you say clients were paying you.  That implies you are working in Spain, therefore you must have a residents bank account,

That may be the root of your problem with the bank.     It is  probable that it was the tax authorities who froze the account

Hi John,

I seem to be very confused about the EU citizens register. I was under the impression that this was the Certificado de Registro de Ciudadano de la Union, which is what I recently applied for. If there is something that remains to be done, no one has told me. Can you provide any more information about the EU citizens register?

The extranjería know exactly my circumstances. The receptionist there is a friend of the person I live with so she has provided us with the relevant advice thus far.

The bank also knows my circumstances. This is a professional resident's account with Santander, designed for the self-employed.

I think you are not very conversant with the process.

The  Certificado de Registro de Ciudadano de la Union,  is the Spanish for the certificate of EU citizens register


What I  posted is the what I know from 30 years living in Spain 20 years of which working with the National Police assisting  and advising  people with their paperwork,    I know the system.   

If you are content taking the advice which you mention then best of luck,  but it appears they are not able to resolve the problem you have, so maybe they do not understand your problem as clearly as you believe.

Catling121 wrote:

I seem to be very confused about the EU citizens register. I was under the impression that this was the Certificado de Registro de Ciudadano de la Union, which is what I recently applied for. If there is something that remains to be done, no one has told me. Can you provide any more information about the EU citizens register?

You are supposed to register within 90 days of arriving in Spain, not "immediately". It sounds like you have already done this, so it's hard to say what more it is that you are supposed to do. You've set up your business. (https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/r … dex_en.htm)

Papa   If one moves to spain they are required to register immediately 

If they come to spain without that intention but stay permanently for 90 days then they must register

If one presents at the Extranjeria requesting  an
NIE and say you have moved to spain you are not permitted to obtained just an NIE cert

Johncar wrote:

Papa   If one moves to spain they are required to register immediately

I understand that this is what you believe.

However, it is not what the Spanish government's web site says. From http://extranjeros.mitramiss.gob.es/es/ … html#docum

Note the bottom of the page, which gives the deadline for doing this as three months:

"Plazo de presentación: tres meses contados desde la fecha de entrada en España."
which Google Translate says means "Deadline for submission: three months from the date of entry into Spain."

(Also note the earlier link I provided to the EU's web site, which says the same thing- EU citizens who move to another EU nation to live have 90 days to register.)

Perhaps your police station is not applying the law correctly. This would not be unusual in Spain, as often different places working from the same law still give different answers. Don't feel bad, they probably trained you incorrectly to begin with.

Ok papa you have your interpretation   

I have the reality of what happens,  when the police follow the government instructions as issued to all oficinas de extranjeros

extract from    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-r … s-in-spain

Register as a resident
As an EU citizen you must register as a resident if you plan on living in Spain for more than 3 months.

I'm not "interpreting" anything. I'm reading what the government web sites actually say.

The person who is (as usual) saying what HE believes but not providing any actual proof is you.

"What's the deadline for an EU citizen moving to another EU nation to register with that nation?"

"90 days."

"How do you know?"

"Because that's what the EU government web site says. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/r … .htm"


"According to the Spanish government, what's the deadline for an EU citizen to register with the Spanish authorities?"

"Three months."

"How do you know?"

"Because that's what the Spanish government web site says. http://extranjeros.mitramiss.gob.es/es/ … ocum"


What is very, very ironic to me, Johncar, is that earlier in this very thread, we had this discussion. We were talking about how different people at different banks or even at the same bank will apply the rules differently.

And you said this:

Johncar wrote:

It is not that the law varies but many who are required to administer the rules established by law are not legally qualified so often get it wrong.

In this case, the law (as published by the governments in question on their official web sites) is pretty clear.

The problem is the person who is applying the law, you, insisting that YOU are right and that the web pages of the government are wrong.

This is precisely how the situation described happens. Someone thinks they know and refuses to accept evidence that they are incorrect.

You might well be applying the rules the way you say, and your police pals might be as well, but you are wrong in how you are doing it. How do I know? Because I can read the EU and Spanish government web site.

And you are NOT providing a service to the users here by insisting that you are correct when you clearly are not.

But I tell you what? How about we each leave our posts up, and people can read them, and follow the links provided (well, mine, anyway- you rarely provide links, you just claim you've worked for the Spanish police for eons or whatever) and decide for themselves.

Papa
              Just a reminder


Extract

OPINIONS:
 
OPINIONS:
 
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I do not intend to be drawn into an argument

If one comes to live in spain and follows my advice,  they can be sure they will find they do not have the problems often encountered by those who follow other advice.   Starting as soon as you are able is a good approach as getting an appointment under the new system can take some while, even for just an NIE

To make an appointment for NIE, EU citizen registration, or if you are non EU for residencia,  niw can only be done online.   Hopefully the follows will help, but be aware, the process is not exactly straightforward

TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH THE POLICE FOR  NIE,  E.U. Citizen registration, etc

NB.  As you proceed you will find links to information you may need to know, including what forms, paperwork, etc. are required. 

Good luck !

GO TO:-
https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/icpplus/

(after each selection enter Aceptar )

•             PROVINCES AVAILABLE:       CHOOSE YOUR

•             SECTIONS AVAILABLE IN PROVINCE:          OPEN PAGE AND SELECT SECTION  REQUIRED
              e.g.    “policía  certificado de residente o no residente”  (that includes NIE application)

•             ENTER THE DETAILS OF APPLICANT

•            CHOOSE NATIONAL POLICE STATION FOR APPOINTMENT:      YOUR NEAREST

•             CHOOSE APPOINTMENT,  AND THEN CONFIRM

•             PRINT A COPY OF THE APPOINTMENT,   IF YOU WISH

Thanks for the reminder.

I'll point out that you have not been presenting these things as opinions. You state them as fact, and assert that you know better because of your "work with the police" for many years.

Yet when someone else points out that you are incorrect, as a matter of *fact*, and provides links that demonstrate you're wrong, you fall back on the "rules of the forum".

And finally, your own quoted material is from the UK government (not Spain or the EU, which are the ones in question)... and it does NOT say that you must register immediately, which is what you initially asserted.

It only says you must register if you plan on staying longer than 90 days.

Thanks for affirming what I was saying.