Brazilian investor visa

Hi,
I am a lawyer at Botinha&Cabral firm specialized in international law and I have done this procedure quite a few times. We use all kind of technologies to attend our international clients, such as Skype and WhatsApp.

One advise I have is to do a very throughout research on your options and on the professionals you will choose to help you throughout the process. I highly recommend at least a consultation with a lawyer that can speak both languages and knows both laws so you can have a better idea of all the procedures.

The difference in the amount of money for the investor visa could be due to the fact that in certain types of investment (a startup, for example) you can invest less money. The law is clear on this end.

Yes, after living in Brazil for 4 years is possible to start a citizenship process, although it is not an easy process.

And yes, you can do everything whilst still in your native country.

I hope this helps to clarify a bit.

I've looked at the "braziliancitizenship" website.  It belongs to an outfit called Establish Brazil, whose line of work seems to be assisting individuals in getting investor visas, among other things.  It's hard to tell whether they're legit, although plastering their rather slick website with the national coat of arms as if they were official can be misleading, to say the least.  Two things are certain:  they charge for their services, and they're not clear on their site what those charges are.  That's information you want before you decide to do business with them, and certainly before you send them or anyone any money.

Your first stop for reliable information on an investor visa -- or any visa -- is the Brazilian Consulate General in New York.  They can answer questions on visa types, eligibility, documentation requirements, and costs.  (They can't answer any questions about private firms like Establish Brazil.)  You can send your questions, in English, to  [email protected]. 

Putting together your posts here and in the Curitiba forum, it seems that all of your research so far has been Internet-based.  That's ok for collecting some initial data -- of variable reliability -- on a country, but it's no more sufficient for making a major life choice like emigration than consulting WebMD would be for making a major medical decision.    Please think about what you're doing a thousand times before you commit to anything life-altering, like cashing out your 401K and sending the funds to unknown persons in a country where you've never been, in hopes that everything will turn out well. 

There's a saying here, like so many Brazilian sayings, funny, true, and deeply cynical, all at once:  "O Brasil não é para calouros." -- "Brazil is not for beginners."  I say this as an American who loves this country and this culture,  and plans to end his days here:  do not make any commitment to Brazil or in Brazil that you can't easily get out of, until, at the very least, you've spent a few months here, mastered the rudiments of the language, and given yourself the space to decide whether you're capable of the changes you'd need to make to adjust yourself to and be happy in Brazil.  Because there's one thing you can be absolutely sure of:  Brazil is not going to adjust itself to you.

sergio,

i have a few more questions for you.

1. if i wanted to find an american lawyer to help me with the investor visa, should i just look for someone who practices "international law?"

2. i went to your website and looked at your youtube videos.

i looked at this youtube video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDgnYYUAhes

when talking about the investor visa at 0:45 mark, you mentioned that, "it's a lengthy process, in which you have to set up a corporation, invest money, open a bank account, register the amounts over the central bank in brazil, and request a visa." 

you mentioned that "it's a lengthy process."  how long does this process take?

3. so if i want to get an investor visa, i have to set up a corporation?  that sounds like a lot of work.

4. do you recommend trying to get an investor visa for someone who doesn't really care about investing money and just wants to find a way to live in brazil and for whom 500,000 reais is a lot of money?

thanks

abthree,

"I've looked at the "braziliancitizenship" website.  It belongs to an outfit called Establish Brazil, whose line of work seems to be assisting individuals in getting investor visas, among other things.  It's hard to tell whether they're legit, although plastering their rather slick website with the national coat of arms as if they were official can be misleading, to say the least.  Two things are certain:  they charge for their services, and they're not clear on their site what those charges are.  That's information you want before you decide to do business with them, and certainly before you send them or anyone any money."

thank you.  i appreciate the detective work.

"Your first stop for reliable information on an investor visa -- or any visa -- is the Brazilian Consulate General in New York.  They can answer questions on visa types, eligibility, documentation requirements, and costs.  (They can't answer any questions about private firms like Establish Brazil.)  You can send your questions, in English, to  visa.novayork[at]itamaraty.gov.br."

yes, i was thinking about asking asking the new york brazilian consulate some questions, possibly when i go get my visa for my upcoming trip to brazil next year.

i'm surprised at how crappy the brazilian consulate in nyc website is:

http://novayork.itamaraty.gov.br/en-us/

it looks pretty unprofessional with really weird hours:
HOURS

From 9am to 2pm (except Thursdays, from 9am to 11am)



MONDAY: 9am to 2pm

TUESDAY:  9am to 2pm

WEDNESDAY: 9am to 2pm

THURSDAY: 9am to 11am

FRIDAY: 9am to 2pm

does that look like a legit brazilian consulate website to you?


yes, you're right about how my research so far has been internet-based. 

"There's a saying here, like so many Brazilian sayings, funny, true, and deeply cynical, all at once:  "O Brasil não é para calouros." -- "Brazil is not for beginners."  I say this as an American who loves this country and this culture,  and plans to end his days here:  do not make any commitment to Brazil or in Brazil that you can't easily get out of, until, at the very least, you've spent a few months here, mastered the rudiments of the language, and given yourself the space to decide whether you're capable of the changes you'd need to make to adjust yourself to and be happy in Brazil."

why do you say this?  i understand what you're saying, but why do you say this?  do you find that a lot of people move to brazil and are disappointed?  have you seen some horror stories?

i appreciate your insight, and i can tell that you're trying to look out for me.

i've got a few other ideas for getting visas to brazil, too, and i will post them later.  i don't want to overload the forum with a million posts right now, so i'll post them little by little.

holy crap, i looked at your profile, and you've lived in a lot of cities.  damn!  i think you said you got brazilian residency through marriage in another thread, is that right?

misterinternational

"i'm surprised at how crappy the brazilian consulate in nyc website is"

Brazil's immigration laws were completed rewritten in May 2017, and the new law went into full effect the following November; not all of the Consulates have caught up yet.  While as a resident of New York State you're required to get your documentation through the Consulate General in New York, you can get information from the website of any Consulate.  The Visa section for the Chicago Consulate General is in better shape.  Google "Brazilian Consulates in the United States" for the complete list.  Consulate hours are always bad:  their main function is to advance Brazil's interests in the US, not to help Americans get to Brazil.  That's secondary.

"why do you say this?  i understand what you're saying, but why do you say this?  do you find that a lot of people move to brazil and are disappointed?  have you seen some horror stories?"

Yes and yes.  Many times.

You've been impressed with the charm and friendliness of Brazilians you've met in the US, and they really are charming and friendly.  I think of charm as a Brazilian national trait.

Brazilians also have one of the lowest levels of social trust and social cohesion in the Western World.  The majority consistently answers "no" to the question, "Are other people generally honest?  Can other people usually be trusted?", as compared with North America, Western Europe, or China, where majorities or pluralities answer "yes".  Not coincidentally, this is an extremely transactional society.  The kind of casual altruism that Brazilians often remark on in the US is practically non-existent here; the size and reach of private charities in North America, for example, is something Brazilians find astounding.  On a personal level, Brazilians rarely do a favor for anyone outside their family without expecting a return, either monetary (often), or in the form of a return favor.

You will be seen by many Brazilians as a source of easy cash:  their stereotypes of both Americans and  Asians include a heavy dose of gullibility, so as an Asian-American, you'll be dealing with a double whammy.  In any retail setting outside supermarkets with pre-priced items, you will constantly be offered the higher "Gringo Price", not the price that Brazilians get.  The worse your Portuguese, and the gentler your demeanor, the more obvious the efforts to cheat you will be.  Being a "pleasant badass" will take you far; shaking your head and walking away will probably take you farther.

Professionally, if you really do try to set up a business, you'll run into three types of people who offer to help you.  First and least common, competent, honest professionals who will charge you a fair price for good service.  These people most often are found through personal recommendations.  Second, competent, fairly honest professionals who will charge you premium rates for regular or slightly sub-par service.  They will delay longer than they should, and blame the system, and charge you more than they said, but eventually, with much management and coaxing, they'll probably get the job done for you.  Finally, people who will take your money and run.  You can't distinguish among any of these without doing in-person due diligence.  You can't do it by reading websites, you can't do it by email.  Personally, I don't think you can even do it by phone.

This due diligence is vitally important, because to set up a legal entity and a bank account in Brazil, you're going to have to give a Power of Attorney to a Brazilian agent.  You won't be able to have control of a bank account until you have your permanent residency, so your agent, not you, will have control of your assets until you're legally qualified for them to be transferred to you.  If s/he is honest, competent, and diligent, that will probably happen in a couple of months, and cost you maybe 10-15% of your investment.  If not, it will cost a lot more, and take a lot longer -- or never happen at all.

As far as street crime is concerned, if you have the street smarts to live in NYC, I wouldn't be overly worried.  Be as alert and untrusting as you are in New York, and you should be ok.  When it doubt, trust your gut and get out of there.

"holy crap, i looked at your profile, and you've lived in a lot of cities.  damn!  i think you said you got brazilian residency through marriage in another thread, is that right?"

LOL  Yeah, I've been around.  And yes, I'm married to a Brazilian.  My account picture is the topper from our wedding cake:  I'm the one with the glasses, my husband's the one with the hair. ;-)

abthree,

"This due diligence is vitally important, because to set up a legal entity and a bank account in Brazil, you're going to have to give a Power of Attorney to a Brazilian agent.  You won't be able to have control of a bank account until you have your permanent residency, so your agent, not you, will have control of your assets until you're legally qualified for them to be transferred to you.  If s/he is honest, competent, and diligent, that will probably happen in a couple of months, and cost you maybe 10-15% of your investment.  If not, it will cost a lot more, and take a lot longer -- or never happen at all."

yes, that's why i was thinking about doing the investor visa in america; however, i hear what you're saying about experiencing brazil first before committing my life savings to brazil.  it makes sense.  the only problem is that if i live in brazil for a year or two before doing the investor visa, then i may not have enough money left over to do the investor visa, but i realize that it's not the only option, and i will definitely consider many options.

i have some other ideas about moving to brazil that i will post in the coming months.

i appreciate your comments about the negatives about brazil.  i like it when people give me the real dirt on a place.  too much positive information can give a skewed, rosy-eyed picture of a country.

"As far as street crime is concerned, if you have the street smarts to live in NYC, I wouldn't be overly worried.  Be as alert and untrusting as you are in New York, and you should be ok.  When it doubt, trust your gut and get out of there."

actually, nyc is very safe.  it's the safest large city in the us.  i think nyc used to be pretty dangerous, but i think the last mayor, rudy giuliani, really cleaned up the city.  people walk around at midnight alone without any fear. 

thanks.  i appreciate your insight.

Sure thing. 
First of all, since the change in the immigration laws,  it's not even possible to get a permanent visa for investment in the US anymore.  All the Consulate can give you now is a temporary visa.   That does help with some of the paperwork, but you would still have to complete the permanency process with the Federal Police in Brazil.
Second, whatever the websites you're reading say, you can't control a Brazilian bank account before you have permanent residency, so it will be hard to do what you have in mind without giving temporary control of your assets to a Brazilian agent.
Given your desires for city size and climate, consider Belo Horizonte, which I think was already on your list.  It seems to check all your boxes.

if i do the investor visa, do i have a to create a corporation that employs brazilians?

yeah, actually, james made a post about how belo horizonte was one of his top choices for people to move to.  belo horizonte is definitely on my list.

i don't plan on driving, because i don't want to get a car stolen.  and i actually haven't driven in 3 years since moving to nyc.  i'm not comfortable with parallel parking, either.

someone mentioned that my best bet to find a job was to go to sao paulo city.  what are your thoughts on this?

i'm kind of hestitant to move to sao paulo, as i've read that many people commute 4 hours a day on public transportation.

i thought of a few more questions about buying real estate:

do i get permanent residence if i buy a property (either vacant land or land with a building) that costs over 500,000 reais?

does that count as a brazilian investor visa?

do i get permanent residence if i buy a property (either vacant land or land with a building) under 500,000 reais?



obrigado

Dear Mister International,

Trying to answering your questions, I know of an american lawyer who is in New York and that I worked for many years with. His name is Jeremy Morley and he might refer us to you if you ask him.

The process is lenghty because you have to 1) create a corporation, 2) open a bank account for it, 3)  register the corporation in the Central Bank, 4) apply for the visa.

Normally, the whole process takes around 6 months, being possible that that happens in less or more time depending on the documents arriving timely and we do not encounter red tapes that are sometimes unavoidable in Brazilian bureaucracies.

It is a complex process, but your part on it involves just sending the documents.

As to the representative, indeed you need a person that resides in Brazil to be portrayed as a representative until you get the Visa. If you do not have someone you trust in Brazil still you can use an agent or lawyer that would agree to that. the relation must be indeed secured by mutual trust, referrals, a contract, plus the fact that, at least for lawyers, we have a license with the Brazilian attorney bar that can be revoked by wrongdoings. In the past, when requested, I worked with some limitations on the power of attorney. If you want, I can provide contact details of people I helped in the past.

Our office is in Belo Horizonte, you can visit us if you like. We are around for 19 years, offering prime service at reasonable cost. No complaints listed on all those years, because we have a honest conduct with programmed steps in a professional standardized way of work. But we will not lie that Brazil does not have its bureaucracies.

The amount you invest in a corporation can be used by this corporation to buy a real estate property. That means you can secure the amount with buying a nice place to live. The only thing is that the property will be owned by the corporation, which by its turn is owned by you.

I was thinking about the places you mention and your doubts. Santa Catarina (Florianópolis) and Baixada Santista / Litoral Paulista are places that came to my mind when you mentioned you californian style.

Belo Horizonte is a nice place, but there is no ocean. Rio seems to be out of your choices, right? Although it is sometimes dangerous, if you are in the south zone of the city or Barra, it is not as dangerous as seen on TV (it is a different world). Rio is a very lively city with amicable people.
Curitiba is indeed a bit cold.

Anyways, indeed you should take your time to study the whole process,

Best Regards,
Sergio Botinha

misterinternational wrote:

i thought of a few more questions about buying real estate:

do i get permanent residence if i buy a property (either vacant land or land with a building) that costs over 500,000 reais?

does that count as a brazilian investor visa?

do i get permanent residence if i buy a property (either vacant land or land with a building) under 500,000 reais?



obrigado

There's a helpful thread on buying property in Brazil here:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=779511

It is possible to buy real estate,  The new Immigration Law is very clear, however, that investment in real estate alone will not qualify the buyer for an investor visa:  the investment has to produce jobs for Brazilians.

Dear, Resolução normativa 13/17/Conselho Nacional de Imigração does not establish the obligation of creating jobs. It is necessary only to mention jobs, if you have the prospect to hire people, on the business plan to be provided.
Regards,
Sergio

sergiobotinha wrote:

Dear, Resolução normativa 13/17/Conselho Nacional de Imigração does not establish the obligation of creating jobs. It is necessary only to mention jobs, if you have the prospect to hire people, on the business plan to be provided.
Regards,
Sergio

That is certainly a creative reading of Resolução Normativa 13 of 12 December 2017!

Assuming that a sharp lawyer COULD arrange to sidestep the job creation requirement in the initial application (possible, I suppose), how would one continue to sidestep it indefinitely, given the reporting requirement of Article 6, IV & V, and §2, same Article, in order to maintain legal residence?

Since there is no legal stipulation that there is the necessity of job creation, this presents no problem at all. You just do not have to include it in the business plan or, if you include and do not create, explain it later on. What you have to show later on is that you generated some sort of business. The fact is that there is no explicit, legal stipulation or express requirement of job creation.

" You just do not have to include it in the business plan"

Really?  Have you ever gotten a business plan approved by the Labor Ministry, and a permanent residence visa for investment for a  client, that did NOT include job creation?

Yes. Create jobs  is not a requirement. Requirement is only to invest R$ 500,000. Just read the Resolução. Once we simply stated that the foreigner would hire by service contracts many locals (accountants, reform workers, etc) for instance.

sergio,

is this the jeremy morley you are talking about?

http://www.international-divorce.com/about-us.htm

sure, you can send contact info of people you've helped in the past.

"What you have to show later on is that you generated some sort of business. "

ok, so i can't just buy a property to live in.  if i bought property under the investor visa, i would have to use it for business purposes, right?

abthree, thanks for the link.

congrats on your new home.

i looked up the passage you were talking about (Resolução normativa 13/17/Conselho Nacional de Imigração - Article 6, IV & V, and §2) and used my rudimentary knowledge of portuguese to figure it out.... er, i mean i used google translate.  it says,

"IV - copy of the Annual Report of Social Information - RAIS for the last three years, which
demonstrate the fulfillment of the employment generation provided for in the Investment Plan; and
V - copy of the latest collection guide from the FGTS,
accompanied by the list of employees.
Paragraph 1 - Whenever it deems it appropriate, the Ministry of Labor may carry out
physical existence of the company and the activities it has been carrying out, as well as requesting
documentation it deems necessary to prove the requirements of the Plan.
Investment or Business."

interesting.

thanks

It is not that you have to use the house bought for the business. The house will be owned by the business. It can be used for rental, you can live on and part of a professional operation be done there, or it can be simply owned by the corporation and be part of its assets.
When you renew the visa, you have to show some sort of professional activity, independently of having used the house. It is that simple.  No need to complicate.

If you refer to job creation on the business plan, as said, you have to prove afterwards their creation. But, job creation requirement is nowhere at the resolution. The written and solid requirement is R$ 500,000 investment. Again, that simple.

I will send you data of people we helped before, in private. Yes, Jeremy Morley is that one from the link.

Best,
Sergio

"What you have to show later on is that you generated some sort of business. "

can renting out the house count as a business?

got your private message.  thanks

Sure.

Rentals are an economic activity.

that has to be included as the company's object activity (CNAE) when company is formed and also some bookeeping of the activity should be accounted for.

Best,
Sergio

ok.  thanks

Hi all,

Does anyone know with absolute certainty if you can enter brazil with just your protocol for a an investor visa?

I'm getting conflicting information.

I personally spoke with the federal police in the airport the last time I entered brazil and the guy told me unequivocally that I could enter brazil with just my protocol (awaiting answer).  I even asked why doesn't ever body do that with their tourist or student visas and he said it's just for the investor visa.

One explanation given to me was, once the Ministry of Labor approves it, I will be given another protocol to pick up the visa from the consulate or federal police and with that one, I could technically enter the country.

Anyone know with certainty?

Thanks in advance.

Dear Jparo,

Here is the info on the Policia Federal website itself:

http://www.pf.gov.br/servicos-pf/carta- … /imigracao .

The entrance is to be authorized if the foreigner that was granted permanency (of any kind) presents the Protocol ("Os estrangeiros residentes no Brasil, além do passaporte, deverão apresentar a Cédula de Identidade de Estrangeiro ou o protocolo do Pedido de Regularização expedido pela Polícia Federal.").

Best,

Sergio B***

Thank you, so its not "while you wait for answer", it's only after granted permission and awaiting for the actual RNE card?