MM2H: how long did it take for you?

Gravitas :

Tightening of background financial chscks

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia … me/1728776

From this article:
"Malaysia could lose up to RM1 billion a year from the influx of cash due to the delay in approvals"

- Isn't amazing to do this after Malaysia's piggy bank was robbed just recently by 7 billion USD!

The background to why security checks are deemed necessary is made clearer in this article. It is also the target to fix the backlog in the next 4 months.

"PETALING JAYA: Putrajaya has tightened background checks for the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme after approvals were placed under the Home Ministry.

Singapore's The Straits Times reported that nearly 4,000 applicants have been left in the lurch, as their applications have stalled since September last year.

Applications were usually processed within two months before the Home Ministry were involved.

"A letter of good conduct (for the applicant) has been a requirement since 2002, it acts as the first line of defence," a Special Branch official told The Straits Times.

The Singaporean portal said among the possible security concerns are illegal casinos, betting games and financial scams led by foreign nationals, as well as money laundering, with foreign dirty cash parked in housing units.

MM2H Agents Association president Lim Kok Sai reportedly said the delay in approvals could cause Malaysia to lose up to RM1bil a year.

The Straits Times said MM2H Agents Association had complained about the backlog, leading to Tourism, Arts and Culture Minister Datuk Mohamaddin Ketapi announcing the setting up of a task force to speed up the approval process for backlogged applications.

"We hope that with this task force, we will be able to resolve all 3,727 applications in four months," Datuk Mohamaddin told The Straits Times.

"This vetting process needs to be done carefully, because it involves security," he added.

The waiting applicants are mainly from China, Japan, South Korea, Bangladesh, India and Britain.

The MM2H programme, a 10-year visa programme to attract wealthy expatriates, has approved the long-stay visas for more than 40,000 people from 131 countries.

The main participants are from China, followed by Japan, Bangladesh, United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, Korea, Iran and Singapore."


Read more at https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/ … 9H6LQgx.99

Does this apply for New Applications or the ones under "Pending Committee Approval" Status have already been vetted in full ? Thanks for your opinion

I think both the increased security and financial scrutiny that have been announced will apply to applications in the queue.

The final batch of approvals under the old system were completed in September 2018. Then the peninsular MM2H went into hibernation, with the internal move to bring the mm2h programme under the Home Ministry, as part of the new approval system.

So when the new Task Force meets (from 1 March to July 2019) the new system and format will apply.

What has happened in the past is the Committee can request additional documentation for Cases, so this will continue to happen. This of course delays the approval process for that particular Case, while the person gets what is required.

Thank you Gravitas
I submitted Aug 2018 and got the Pend Com. Approval by January 2019 so I should be under the additional requirements cathegory(if needed) if I understood well

Gravitas :

I think both the increased security and financial scrutiny that have been announced will apply to applications in the queue.

The final batch of approvals under the old system were completed in September 2018. Then the peninsular MM2H went into hibernation, with the internal move to bring the mm2h programme under the Home Ministry, as part of the new approval system.

So when the new Task Force meets (from 1 March to July 2019) the new system and format will apply.

What has happened in the past is the Committee can request additional documentation for Cases, so this will continue to happen. This of course delays the approval process for that particular Case, while the person gets what is required.

Just wonder for those already submitted the application, should the letter of good conduct 
be included in your application which is issued by your country's police or related department already, is it not?

Regarding the letter of good conduct, I included the original letter from the city of San Francisco in with all of the other requested docs to Alter Domus, my agent, who is handling my application.

In my case I attached the letter of Good Conduct for both my wife and myself together with the rest of documentation as requested per my Agent

I have a question regarding the Letter of Good Conduct? What will they accept? Someone above mentioned they submitted a letter from their municipal police department (City of San Francisco).

Would they accept this? Would they not want a State or Federal law enforcement agency?

What about people who have lived outside their home country for a matter of years?

And I really wonder how such letters actually establish the bona fides? Wouldn't the fact that the person has a passport and is able to travel freely largely indicate that they are not a serious security risk? True  fake   passports are out there...but wouldn't getting a doctored up letter from a municipal authority be easier than a passport with all the embedded biometric data and holographic imprints? And people who are really high up in the hierarchy likely have their government contacts who can "arrange things".

And wouldn't a criminal syndicate be able to establish their network of on-line gambling/scams without sending someone that has a record? Isn't all this done by on-line accounts and bitcoins and such nowadays? Or one could simply send someone in on a short-term tourist pass? Why use a fairly slow and complex visa process like MM2H? You can't even "cover it up" with a employment/business front. What's the advantage/benefit to organized crime?

What I have heard is that because of the inability to invest in China (or the limitations of what sort of investments one can make), that families pool their assets to purchase property abroad. In a sense, by requiring that the applicant obtain a Letter of Good Behavior it sends a "heads up" to the Internal Ministry of China that an average citizen is applying for a semi-residential status elsewhere. It allows them to investigate if that individual (or their family) is avoiding "currency controls".

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets … srcref=rss

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/beiji … 53672.html

That was me, cinnamonape, with the local letter from San Francisco.  Hey, born and raised here, and I didn't live anywhere else except during college years.  Alter Domus thought it was fine for me to get it from local police department, but yeah if the powers to be say not enough then I will have to go higher or the State level.  I will report out if that is the case (hopefully not).

Oh, Alter Domus did say that if my record is not spot clean (even if traffic violation) don't even apply.  Luckily I stayed on the right side of the road all my life....

topazar :

Thank you Gravitas
I submitted Aug 2018 and got the Pend Com. Approval by January 2019 so I should be under the additional requirements cathegory(if needed)

We have the same status. Please see my earlier post on this on Jan 31:

expat000 :

We went to the Ministry Of Tourism, Art & Culture (MTAC) in Putrajaya today. We've been told that our documents were approved by their office at the Committee on January 20 and our file was passed to the Ministry of Home Affairs.

We went to the the Ministry of Home Affairs (Kementerian Dalam Negeri, or KND), Komplex D.  They checked our application number and din't find it. They made several calls and told us that our documents actually went from MTAC straight to the Police Department for police records verification.
After this is done at the Police Department, documents will go to MTAC's Immigration Department and then to KND for the Minister to sign the approval.

I am only telling you what we've been told and you can see that even MTAC personnel doesn't know where the documents are. There is no centralized tracking system.

The Ministry of Home Affairs acted as they don't have any applications yet passed to them. Perhaps our documents are passed to the Immigration and the process is stalled until they decided how the Ministry of Home Affairs is going to be involved in this process.

VWC :

Regarding the letter of good conduct, I included the original letter from the city of San Francisco.

AMERICAN citizens or residents must submit FBI criminal history record. Local police reports are not sufficient, but can be supplemental.

You can expedite receiving your FBI criminal history record. Here is the information for you:
800-441-1661, ext. 0 (Monday - Friday 8:00 AM - 5:30 PM PST) and ask to speak with a representative about obtaining your FBI Criminal History Report.
$39.95,  within 1 week
National Credit Reporting (Headquarters)
6830 Via Del Oro, Ste. 105
San Jose, CA 95119
Their website myfbireport.  com (remove space after the period)

We used them several times.
There is no need to certify FBI reports for Malaysia.

I believe the new MM2H Review Team will request additional information to show they did their review task professionally. So anyone got approval or received any feedback from them please share here.

Much thanks, expat000.  I will reach out to Alter Domus with your information and see what they say.  Frankly, they told me they got my documents (with the local police letter) and nothing since.

VWC

Ok, Alter Domus said applications using the local county reports have been accepted so far.  I guess we will see if I need to get the FBI version.

Alter Domus were the first ever Agent that received a license to make mm2h applications. They have enormous experience so unless they get word from thd Home Ministry on new requirements there should be nothing to worry about. Good choice, VWC.

VWC :

Ok, Alter Domus said applications using the local county reports have been accepted so far.  I guess we will see if I need to get the FBI version.

Hopefully this will work for you. If they will need additionally an FBI report, you know that you can get it very fast.
We didn't use an agent. MM2H site states:

Letter of Good Conduct from your relevant government agency
- The police authority of the applicant’s home country


When I called the agency before application, I was told that there should be a police report issued by a country, not a local police. This makes sense, because one can live in different states and have a very good police report in one state and be a criminal in another. However, some countries require only a local police report. Mexico does this, for example.

Yeah, for a moment there I was considering doing the application myself because why waste the money if our qualifications IMHO are excellent.  We both have good paying jobs here in the US and we would be bringing over a decent amount of money in theory if we were buying in say Penang.  But you were right, we don't have time to go there (even though we have family in Johor Bahru) to deal with any of the intermediate steps so Alter Domus was definitely a good recommendation (Thanks again!).  Hopefully, being the first licensed Agent still has some pull.  We shall see....

Thanks Expat000

So far, nothing, and am afraid the original 4/5 months time frame to get all approvals will turn into a year...

As far as the Letter of Good conduct is concerned, we live in Latinamerica, and we submitted the Letter issued by the Ministry of Interior, which in turn we apostilled at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and translated thru an Official Translator per our agent request.

expat000 :
topazar :

Thank you Gravitas
I submitted Aug 2018 and got the Pend Com. Approval by January 2019 so I should be under the additional requirements cathegory(if needed)

We have the same status. Please see my earlier post on this on Jan 31:

expat000 :

We went to the Ministry Of Tourism, Art & Culture (MTAC) in Putrajaya today. We've been told that our documents were approved by their office at the Committee on January 20 and our file was passed to the Ministry of Home Affairs.

We went to the the Ministry of Home Affairs (Kementerian Dalam Negeri, or KND), Komplex D.  They checked our application number and din't find it. They made several calls and told us that our documents actually went from MTAC straight to the Police Department for police records verification.
After this is done at the Police Department, documents will go to MTAC's Immigration Department and then to KND for the Minister to sign the approval.

I am only telling you what we've been told and you can see that even MTAC personnel doesn't know where the documents are. There is no centralized tracking system.

The Ministry of Home Affairs acted as they don't have any applications yet passed to them. Perhaps our documents are passed to the Immigration and the process is stalled until they decided how the Ministry of Home Affairs is going to be involved in this process.

I wonder what is the real reason for the suspension of the program. In the government, they certainly understand that they are loosing a lot of money on suspension. Some potential clients drop and apply in other countries instead. Suspension is diminishing trust in MM2H program. I am sure they understand this.

There are some important considerations why they are dragging this suspension despite on the financial loss.

Malaysia started this program after seeing success of Singapore.
MM2H could suspend new applications and complete the process for those who already applied before September. On the contrary, they still continue accepting new applications and pile them up.

BTW, I talked to one MM2H agent and I was told that agents are also helpless to speed up this process. If maintaining an agent is not required, there is little benefit to retain one. The application process is very simple. Communication with the office was very fast (before October). The whole process was simple. And now it got stuck.
So, what is really happening?

My consultant told me today batch no. 14/2018 should be released these two weeks. Let us wait and see.

What MM2H refer no. is refer to the batch 14/2018?

14/2018 means batch no 14 for year 2018 as now still reviewing those application on year 2018. No idea how many applicants will be released.

14/2018 makes some sense as there were two committee meetings per month and the process came to a grinding halt in July. So when did batch 14 people make their application?

We handed our documents on July 27 and December 24 were pending committe aproval, but so far we did not respond positively or negatively.

We handed our documents on July 27 and December 24 were pending committe aproval, but so far we did not respond positively or negatively.

We handed our documents on July 27 and December 24 were pending committe aproval, but so far we did not respond positively or negatively.

I do not understand what you mean, they stopped in July?

I believe Gravitas refers to the fact that 2 Meetings(1 Batch per Mtg) per month, means up to 14 batches processed up to July 2018  , when everything stalled. Still not clear which Reference Nr. relates to Batch Nr 14. but for sure mine is out as I submitted Aug 2018 (Starting 38.XXX)

If the Task Force that was put together as mentioned above, starts working in the right direction, we should hopefully see more batches being approved...Hope so !!

Kafaei :

I do not understand what you mean, they stopped in July?

My application (37XXX) was submitted on 13th June 2018 still Pending Comittee Approval. :c

akwkrk :

My consultant told me today batch no. 14/2018 should be released these two weeks.

So what are the first 3 digits in your MM2H Reference Number?
370.. or larger?
A batch number doesn't mean anything to us if we don't know what Ref. Numbers it contains.
Thank you

Don't think the reference numbers are particularly indicative as cases will not necessarily be handled in number order because some applications may be incomplete or require additional steps. I also get the impression there may be some other grouping of applications put forward to the Committee say from particular nationals. This was evident when approvals came through together but applications were entered at quite different dates. How the screening process and Committee works is never disclosed but there has been some suggestion of a quota break system in some cases so particular nationals won't flood the programme.

I agreed with Gravitas.

My application number is 371XX.

Hi everybody…. there is a new announcement on mm2h.gov.my web site about new requirements for mm2h program…also some new announcements on an agent web site "joy-stay mm2h" about the mm2h reference numbers and what is the plan for them from related ministry…. may be interesting to see…

Don't see any new news from Joy Stay unless you are referring to the one from Oct 2018.
Is there a link you can attached for the new reference number?  Thanks

http://www.joy-stay.com/NewAnnouncement.html

Mmm I checked the link, it is not clear to me whether this applies to new applications as from this year, or comprises applications submitted as from Nr.36XXX ....which means hardly anything has been done since those Nrs....

As for the 75% minimum income coming from pensions, well not all of us are pensioned yet, so this rule will cull out a great deal of applicants. Hope this is related to new applications and not to the ones already submitted and vetted. Does anyone has any insight other than Joy-Stay announcements ?

akwkrk :

http://www.joy-stay.com/NewAnnouncement.html

Joystay is not quite accurate. Please go to the original source. Just type in your browser "ANNOUNCEMENTs for mm2h in malaysia" and find mm2h.gov.my.
Here is an ANNOUNCEMENT for 2019:

NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR MM2H APPLICATION

PASSPORT PICTURE

    Applicant is required to submit a passport picture with BLUE background only.

          Effective date: 18 March 2019

PASSPORT

    Applicant is required to submit the copies of passport particular page and ALL pages that contain entry/exit stamp. Only the passport particularpage is required to be validated (Certified True Copy).

           Effective date: 18 March 2019

LETTER OF GOOD CONDUCT

    Applicant is required submit COMPLETE documents upon submission at the MM2H counter. This includes the submission of Letter of Good Conduct (LOGC) for applicant from Hong Kong and Singapore.  Note: The Ministry of Tourism, Arts and Culture will no longer issued a supporting letter for the applicant to obtain the LOGC from the Hong Kong and Singapore authorities.
    Applicant is no longer allowed to submit LOGC issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Malaysia. Only LOGC from the ORIGIN or Residence country is acceptable.
    Only main applicant (principal) is required to submit the LOGC.

           Effective date: 26 February 2019

OFF-SHORE INCOME

    If the applicant is unable to meet the RM10,000 off-shore income, he/she may submit income from spouse to support the application. However, the applicant's income should exceed the spouse with a ratio of 7:3.
    The applicant who declares that he / she is employed, is not permitted touse other sources of income such as rental agreements, investment benefits and others as sources of income instead, the applicant MUST submit the salary slip and bank statement as proof of an offshore- income.
    Applicant is required to provide both Salary Slip and 3 months ofcurrent Bank Statement as an evidence of salary credit by the employer.

           Effective date: 4 March 2019

CERTIFIED TRUE COPY REQUIREMENT

    Commisioner of Oath is not allowed to validate (Certified True Copy) for any documents for MM2H application.

           Effective date: 4 March 2019

topazar :

As for the 75% minimum income coming from pensions, well not all of us are pensioned yet, so this rule will cull out a great deal of applicants. Hope this is related to new applications and not to the ones already submitted and vetted. Does anyone has any insight other than Joy-Stay announcements ?

I don't think that this applies to those still employed and the revision relates to dual sources of income (applicant+spouse). If one is able to meet the income requirement without any pension source then they are fine with that.

In both cases, pension or offshore salary income, one is expected to demonstrate income of RM10,000.

"OFF-SHORE INCOME

If the applicant is unable to meet the RM10,000 off-shore income, he/she may submit income from spouse to support the application. However, the applicant's income should exceed the spouse with a ratio of 7:3."


So if one is short of the income then the main applicant may use supplemental income fo a spouses pension or employment as a "boost". I can see some technical issues from this. Let's say the main applicant has an RM8000 salary/pension and the spouse also has a salary/pension of RM7000. Now that would mean the combined total would be above RM10,000 (in fact, well over...RM15000) BUT the mix would be well above the 7:3 ratio. But really the supplement needed was only RM2000 MORE to reach the RM10K threshold. That would be about 20% (an 8:2 ratio).


"The applicant who declares that he / she IS EMPLOYED, is not permitted to use other sources of income such as rental agreements, investment benefits and others as sources of income instead, the applicant MUST submit the salary slip and bank statement as proof of an offshore- income.
Applicant is required to provide both Salary Slip and 3 months of current Bank Statement as an evidence of salary credit by the EMPLOYER."


So does that conversely mean that a PENSIONER/RETIREE MAY use rental agreements, investment benefits, and other sources of income, along with, or in lieu of a pension reaching RM10,000?

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