Visa for my wife and kids.

Are you still married to the American lady?

If so, your Indonesian marriage probably won't be recognised here so the lady can't sponsor you for spouse sponsored KITAS.
If it's a Orfi, just forget it because you have no hope.

Thank you for replying to my question.
I got married with the Indonesian woman in Indonesia, and our marriage registried in the islamic marriage office in Indonesia.
And I'm still married to the American wife.
There is any solution or way to gather all of them in Indonesia, two wives and kids?

Muslim Moe wrote:

Thank you for replying to my question.
I got married with the Indonesian woman in Indonesia, and our marriage registried in the islamic marriage office in Indonesia.
And I'm still married to the American wife.
There is any solution or way to gather all of them in Indonesia, two wives and kids?

The Indonesian marriage, if civil, is possibly illegal as you were already married so it would be impossible to get a certificate of no impediment, a requirement in Indonesian law.
If it was a Muslim ceremony only (No civil ceremony), it has no force in law so your Indonesian wife can't apply for a spouse sponsored KITAS.
She can sponsor all for a two month extendable visa (Or a travel agent can) but immigration may ask difficult questions and you have to leave the country every six months with no guarantee of being able to return.

Interesting topic this one, I will be very interested in what does or doesn't happen

Gwmeath wrote:

Interesting topic this one, I will be very interested in what does or doesn't happen

Agreed - It would be nice if the OP can keep us updated as this is so unusual here.

I don't understand why it's illegal marriage, if it's authorized by the Indonesian marriage office (cibiru), and with permission from my first wife.

To legally marry in Indonesia you must have a certificate of no impediment, that saying you are not married.
If you're already married, you can't legally marry here.

I should add, legal is often forgotten as far as some officials are concerned if you pay them to make it legal but, if found out, it can lead to big problems.
Trying to bring your first wife here could trigger such problems.

Can process to your wife kitas 317 if you have visa kitas 312 for your children can process visa 211 if they enroll in school in indonesia can process student visa or kitas 317,as long you have all the right requirements can process.if you need help pm me.thanks

ricardo001 wrote:

Can process to your wife kitas 317 if you have visa kitas 312 for your children can process visa 211 if they enroll in school in indonesia can process student visa.if you need help pm me.thanks

But how can you get a visa is the marriage was not legal, and how can you get a visa for his first wife?
Once you apply for her visa, it'll come out the second marriage is invalid.

Need to cross check his documents fred,from there can advise more,as immigration consultant we already settle before this kind of issues.as long he has all the requirements can settle.thanks

Going to get interesting because, as I understand it, a certificate of no impediment is required for a legal marriage.
If he was already married, that would be impossible.

It's going to be all sorts of fun trying to explain how you want a KITAS for his first wife.

doing visa in indonesia for more than 5 years already is our industry and expertise,please proceed if other comments was more suitable,my comments
and suggestions are based on our daily routine / experiences especially when it comes on visa processing.thanks

Let's be sure of the facts in case I'm wrong.

To marry legally in Indonesia you must have a certificate of no Impediment, that stating you aren't already married.

If that's correct, a second marriage in Indonesia can't be legal

If there's no legal marriage, the second wife (being aware of the first marriage) can't apply for a KITAS without lying on an immigration document, and the marriage has no force in law because it was entered into illegally, this being known by both parties, or at least they were misled by whoever married them and the law ignored for whatever reason by local officials.

How can you explain this when applying for immigration status for the first wife?
If my understanding of the certificate of no impediment is correct, how can you avoid possible criminal charges against any and all for mis-statements on official documents (marriage and immigration applications) and possible breaches of immigration law?

I can see how that might be different if they were married under a country's law that allows legal multiple marriages, but I'm unsure Indonesia does.

Perhaps you can explain the process for the benefit of future readers of this thread who might be in the same position and, if I'm wrong about the certificate of no impediment, that's important information for any reader intending to marry in Indonesia so I should correct my previous understanding of the situation

Just by way of an explanation, I was married in Malaysia but religious officials here still insisted on seeing a copy of my certificate of no impediment before they accepted the marriage was legal and issued local confirmation of that legality. The same applied to the local RT, RW and so on up the chain.
I had such a copy (still have) so all was well but were they wrong to ask me for it, and were immigration wrong to ask me for the same, because they did?
As a note, hukum HAM also mentioned it when I applied for Indonesia citizenship, so that sort of confirmed the opinion.
That formed my understanding of the need to prove you aren't already married as part of a legal marriage in Indonesia, so are you telling me these officials were all wrong?
If they were, that means my advice to posters over the years has been incorrect so I have to sort out that inaccuracy immediately.

Pointers to consider:

A.Going back to the topic visa for wife and kid,if he has no visa 312,sorry cannot proceed on visa 317.
B.Visa 317 requirements are:
1. Guarantee Letter
2.Passport Copy
3.Bank account copy
4.Marriage certificate copy
5.Itas copy
C.Many who asked us,regarding visa application on their story it is different on the paperwork when
   they show to us.
   That is why we must be clear and see first what requirements they have.
D.Does he have imta and dpkk?
E.What is the validity of his passport?
F.Does he have administrative case filed already at immigration?
G.Where he is domicile?
H.After seeing his all documents and requirements if really cannot to process visa 317,other alternative   visa can do,as per statement above that he need visa for her wife and kids like:

1.b211a
2.visa 319
3.d212
4.visa 316 etc.

Again need to see first the documents.

I. Certificate of no Impediment,is not on our requirement processing visa,talking about what we have process recently,before we proceed on processing we first double check at immigration office,especially regulation in Indonesia is changing,new requirments,updated regulations to consider.
J.Regarding on status of his marriage ,suggest for him to ask family lawyer,for us we only deal with visa and what requirements they need to process.

Please consider above based on my personal views and opinion,if other have better understanding regarding such paperwork processing  then consider.

cheerz,
rick

The way I'm reading all of this I totally understand what Fred is suggesting/ stating
The gentleman firstly married his USA wife and I'm presuming all documents where legalised and confirmed with US Embassay and Egypt Embassay and registered as a legal marriage in both countries?
He then married his Indonesian wife and how I have read this he married in Indonesia?
To marry in a vast majority of countries Indonesia included you must have a document stating you are either widow/ widowed/ divorced or never married and free to do so
And all as stated as the marriage to the US wife (made fully legal)
Again I could be wrong but due to all concerned being Islam/ Muslim these marriages are only recognised with Islam (multiple wives) and not by governments (I could be wrong and welcome corrections for future reference)
My marriage is Christian/ Muslim it's recognised the world over but not within Islam but we have a government issue marriage certificate from Thailand and Indonesia stating so and endorsed by our governments in our own countries
I've been told that many Muslim men take on a 2nd wife and it's legal but only within Islam and or in the local kampung/ community (apologies as only way I can sort of explain)
Myself personally the only legal way to do this is act as friends and keep marriage out of it and wife number 2 (who is a friend) sponsors husband, wife number 1 and children (who are only friends)
To me that's exactly what it can only be
Good luck

Gwmeath wrote:

I've been told that many Muslim men take on a 2nd wife and it's legal but only within Islam and or in the local kampung/ community (apologies as only way I can sort of explain)

I know of a few men in Indonesia with second wives, including a couple of men I met in Kalimantan where I'm told it's common, but these marriages, as you correctly stated, are only legal as far as Islam goes but have no force in law in Indonesia.

There goes his wife sponsored KITAS, but it gets worse - if an illegal marriage was registered with civil authorities, is it a false statement on an official document - A criminal offence?
If that's the case as it seems the OP is claiming, any application for a spouse sponsored KITAS would be a breach of immigration law as well.
If the agent was aware of this, would he or she also be committing an offence, perhaps conspiracy?

Tough one to answer so I'd love to know the outcome.

My wife says it's pretty normal or not unusual for a Muslim man to have a 2nd wife I can't say I've actually met someone with 2 or more wives, though I am sure I have

Gwmeath wrote:

My wife says it's pretty normal or not unusual for a Muslim man to have a 2nd wife I can't say I've actually met someone with 2 or more wives, though I am sure I have

First, what is “normal”. Desirable? Obviously yes from the men's perspective. Common practice? It depends.
I have relatives in Indonesia, the remnant from before the colonial war, and have met many men here who keep more than one wife at the same time. There is a common tread, though. They were - or are - all very wealthy, and able to provide two separate and equally nice residences to both wives. This plus tuition college at prestigious school and university, often in the USA or the U.K. to all his offsprings.
So basically I think it works like in Italy or France back in the days. But in Indonesia - Java and Sumatra in particular - your mistress is your second wife.
There was an older custom in Java - back in the colonial time - when the wife actually looked for a younger woman for her husband once she reaches the age of 50. She then herself moves to another house provided by her husband.
From what I gather, Indonesian women in general are not like the average women in a third world country. They appear traditional from the exterior, are gentle and very polite, but most of them are very highly educated, open minded, brave and know how to deal with men's unnecessary demands. In short, they don't take shit from men!
It is somehow expected, though, in a country where the important state ministers; Finance, Maritime, Foreign Invesment, etc. are all women who actually have PhD and have worked abroad in multinational companies. The women here have something solid and meaningful to aspire them. Very unlike in the USA where they have almost no one and too many Kadharsian!.
I have to say that during social discourse, often I was disappointed by the level of open-mindedness found in the male colleagues, but almost never from the women. Especially when it come to gauge how much role one's religion should control our lives' collectively. Or may be I just hang out with the wrong male population!