Financial situation, some feedback please

Hi Gringo

Overall based on what I have read, she will stop receiving the monthly payment of 2000 reais, if she has a baby even without being married.

In a situation like this I would have to recommend that you try and contact a family lawyer because this is an area I don't have a lot of experience in.  Besides that overall the rule if the rule is applied when she has a child, then the rule itself sounds a bit absurd.  However that is just my personal opinion.

Getting married I guess we can say that she ends up having someone to support her, hence the government might have some law to cut the monthly support in a way.  But having a child and getting the support cut off just isn't making any sense to me.

Best of luck and do keep us updated on the outcome

Regards

She will lose the money once married (if reported). If you try to hide it, they will find out eventually in the future and come after her for repayment. I'm glad they do this to help children of the fallen, but it's not meant to be a life long benefit.

You are at a crossroads...good luck!

CraigF wrote:

She will lose the money once married (if reported)

I wonder how a marriage can be unreported. I don't know if a wedding in Europe automatically gets registered in Brazil too. And whether the passport status going from single to married, has direct consequences for this financial law or it needs to be reported at the "prefeitura". We're not going to ask if they can please stop the monthly payments.

Her mother always says it's an old law that no longer applies to children of police officers nowadays. Therefore I can imagine that when the marital status changes, there is no automatic application that cancels those monthly payments.

If you try to hide it, they will find out eventually in the future and come after her for repayment

I wonder if there are any precedents here. If all of it gets invested at some point, I don't see how they can make anyone pay it back.

I'm glad they do this to help children of the fallen, but it's not meant to be a life long benefit

Most European countries have similar laws, but they are age restricted. In my country it is applicable until the age of 25.

Honestly, I think at this point she is taking  advantage of the Brazilian taxpayers (myself included). I'm sorry she went through a traumatic experience and nothing will bring her father back or ease the pain she has gone through. Believe me, if you owe the Brazilian government, they will get their money. If I was you I would do the right thing instead of hoping for the best. I hate to see people take advantage of others.

GringoLouco

Marriages performed outside Brazil are not automatically reported.   If you want Brazilian permanent residency based on the marriage, though, you two will need to register it yourselves, first with the Brazilian Consulate General in Belgium, and then with the Cartório do 1°Ofício in São Paulo.
The first time that your fiancée files her Brazilian income taxes after the marriage, the Receita Federal will notice the change in her marital status, and probably begin inquiries, which may result in a request for reimbursement of funds paid after the date of the marriage.  Best to consult an accountant as soon as possible after you're married, to define and contain her exposure.
It would be a mistake to assume that Brazil is some kind of banana republic in comparison to Europe.   This is a sophisticated country with a centuries-long legal tradition that takes its laws very seriously, especially as they relate to financial transactions and foreigners.

CraigF wrote:

Honestly, I think at this point she is taking  advantage of the Brazilian taxpayers (myself included)

At this point, the law is being applied as it was created. As long as you're not married and do not have a child, you are eligible to receive a monthly allowance of 2000 reais. Her mother receives an allowance as well, but I don't know how much it is.

In my homecountry we pay a similar amount of taxes compared to Brazil. It gives us free healthcare, top notch education for children and adolescents (university tuition nearly free), good infrastructure and solid pension plans.

In Brazil, your taxes are mainly used to fill the pockets of corrupted politicians. The middle class has poor health insurance, access to education is only for the wealthy, infrastructure needs lots of improvement and pension plans don't allow people to retire comfortably.

I think that your disappointment about tax money being wasted should be directed towards the government instead. At least that is how I see it

If I was you I would do the right thing instead of hoping for the best. I hate to see people take advantage of others

I think if you were me (or her) you would try to enjoy what you are lawfully entitled to for as long as you could. At least that's what the large majority of people would do, even though they claim something else.

I don't know if not reporting a foreign marriage is considered a crime, and allows the Brazilian government to ask money back. Marriage is not important to me. If we delay it, no laws are broken.

I also think you are seriously underestimating the consequences of losing a father. Financial consequences in this case. My girlfriend was his only child, and the 2 parents had to spend all their money on her education fees in middle school. With the father having died, she would have been forced to go to a public school where she would learn nothing. So she would have been punished again, and she would have come out of middle school without any knowledge or future opportunities.

In that regard, I don't see the monthly allowance as taking advantage of tax payers at all. If she had the choice between having her father back or getting the allowance for the rest of her life, she would have taken her father back in a heartbeat

Well we will agree to disagree! She did get help from the government and is in a better place now. Her mother is a widow and is getting help. Like I said in my statement, it's terrible what they have gone through and I am glad the government has something in place to help families like this. I also think there is a point in time when you get on your own two feet. Plenty of opportunities out there! When this election is over we will see if it's much of the same or if the country will go in another direction with being fiscally responsible.

GringoLouco wrote:

In my homecountry we pay a similar amount of taxes compared to Brazil. It gives us free healthcare, top notch education for children and adolescents (university tuition nearly free), good infrastructure and solid pension plans.

In Brazil, your taxes are mainly used to fill the pockets of corrupted politicians. The middle class has poor health insurance, access to education is only for the wealthy, infrastructure needs lots of improvement and pension plans don't allow people to retire comfortably.

It would be well to spend considerably more time in Brazil than you've been able to do up to now, before being quite so categorical about its shortcomings.  I've lived here on and off for the past forty years, and, for all that it still lacks, I continue to be astounded by the the political, social, educational, and economic progress that it's made.
Incidentally, during the same period I've watched your own country go from being one of the most pleasant and efficient in Europe to one that staggers from caretaker government to caretaker government, whose two largest ethnic groups seem to treat each other with increasing distain, and that frequently seems to want to stop BEING one country altogether; sometimes, it seems that the only person who thinks of himself as a Belgian first is the King.  I don't say this to make you feel bad, or to dump on Belgium, a country of which I'm fond, but to point out that what one sees depends on where one sits, and it's good to remember that one's current vantage point doesn't always provide the most balanced view.

abthree wrote:

It would be well to spend considerably more time in Brazil than you've been able to do up to now, before being quite so categorical about its shortcomings.  I've lived here on and off for the past forty years, and, for all that it still lacks, I continue to be astounded by the the political, social, educational, and economic progress that it's made.

Can you tell me about the social/educational progress for the middle class? Not for the doctors and engineers. I've spent 2 years in Sao Paulo. On and off with tourist visas to see my girlfriend again. She managed to get out of the vicious cycle because of her father. She took a bachelor in management, but the monthly salary is less than 2000 reais so that would not allow her to buy a nice property or send a child to a private school. It's because of the monthly allowance after losing her father that she was a able to buy a normal apartment.

Her best friend comes from a family with 3 children of which 2 are working and 1 is at a university (veterinarian). All of them make less than 2000 reais/month, but the father makes a bit more. The children have to finance the tuition fee of their brother at the university. Meaning they have to keep living in terrible conditions until he can graduate. Their apartment is in a dangerous area of Sao Paulo and 5 people (mom, dad, 3 kids)  are living in something that's the size of my living room.

I've seen a lot of this, and it does not seem to me that Brazil is making any progress at all. Most of our friends have to cancel joining us to the cinema because the boss has not paid yet. They're literally living from pay check to pay check.

Incidentally, during the same period I've watched your own country go from being one of the most pleasant and efficient in Europe to one that staggers from caretaker government to caretaker government, whose two largest ethnic groups seem to treat each other with increasing distain, and that frequently seems to want to stop BEING one country altogether; sometimes, it seems that the only person who thinks of himself as a Belgian first is the King.  I don't say this to make you feel bad, or to dump on Belgium, a country of which I'm fond, but to point out that what one sees depends on where one sits, and it's good to remember that one's current vantage point doesn't always provide the most balanced view.

We've made it to the news for breaking the world record of not having a government for more than 1 year. This is because the party that won the elections (almost 40% of the votes) wanted to separate the north (Flanders, speaking Flemish/Dutch) from the south (Wallonia, speaking French) in terms of social care plans.



So Belgium would still be 1 country, but we would be 2 "confederal states". It's like we're still married but we don't sleep in the same bed anymore. What we have now is that our wife from the south still wants to stay married so that she can exploit the north (husband) financially. Regardless, I'd say that Belgium is still the richest country in Europe in terms of health care and education. Germany certainly is not. Maybe Switzerland

Regardless of the biggest political party winning with 40%, all other parties boycotted them and the biggest party was not in the government. All parties who lost the election joined each other and the north is still paying the south. Meaning that the biggest party of a nation is not in charge. Democracy.. This caused a lot of anger and it's why it took so long to form a government with all the losing leftist parties joining each other to beat the right wing winner (N-VA which is the new flemish alliance)
We're about 8 years ahead now and the socialists are completely destroyed. And rightfully so

The tensions between the north and the south are not related to ethnicity because we share the same one. It is because it was calculated that 1 monthly salary from the north flows to the south per year. Belgium has had a socialist government for almost 30 years and they are squandering money from the north. People in the south don't work as hard, and they feel like they are entitled to our money. This is what caused outrage and divided the country. Along with the language barrier. The French speaking south generally does not make an effort to learn our language, but we have to speak theirs.

Belgium is an artificial construction of 2 nations that don't share the language. The north has a lot more sympathy for Holland, which does speak the same language. We would prefer to join them instead. I'm 32 and it never bothered me that north and south don't like each other. We almost never see each other and when we do, there are no tensions.

What I do consider a much more dangerous and even lethal situation, is that the European Union (which is an alliance of unelected bureaucrats on the leash of the USA) are opening the gates for immigration of violent muslims around the world.

They are causing an enormous ethnic shift in Europe, replacing our caucasian and atheist or catholic citizens with muslims who refuse to assimilate and wish to dominate us, implementing sharia laws.
It is very clear to me that this is causing the downfall of Europe, which is the main reason why I want to get out of the country in 10 years. I see burqa's everywhere and suppression of women will become the new standard in Europe. It is completely caused by a bunch of politicians in the EU that we did not elect. We can all see what is happening, and it is not the society I want my kids to grow up in.

Aside of the socio economical problems in Brazil, I really like the people and I consider coming over one day. I could send my child to a Belgian school until the age of 6 years old and then make the move

Well, I've been coming here for the past 15 years and I can tell you salaries have gone up and there is a growing middle class. Progress takes time and improvements have been made...not at the rate I think they should though.

Imagine if the politicians hadn't robbed this country blind and the money actually went to improving the country. The possibilities are endless.

Or the government workers weren't paid 4 - 5 times more than a middle class resident. Then they strike again and demand more money.

People feeling like they are entitled to money is what got this thread started.

Brazil has its problems like any other country, but I love it and plan to stay. It's very expensive, but we have the government and hefty social programs (R$2,000 a month) to thank for that.

CraigF wrote:

Imagine if the politicians hadn't robbed this country blind and the money actually went to improving the country. The possibilities are endless.

Or the government workers weren't paid 4 - 5 times more than a middle class resident. Then they strike again and demand more money.

The problem is the government, and the people can't get rid of it.
In Europe we have countries like Greece being pushed into enormous amounts of debt by large financial institutions like the IMF. When the debt can not be paid back (which is the objective of these institutions) they confiscate real assets.

The system is described in this best seller by John Perkins
https://truthout.org/articles/an-econom … c-hit-men/

The situation in Brazil is similar. It is not coincidence that large financial institutions want a group of criminals and corrupted politicians to run the country. Their objective is to enslave the people, push them into debt and confiscate real assets.

Like we have seen in the amazonas

https://news.mongabay.com/2017/05/temer … g-program/

It would really surprise me if Brazil ever get a corrupted president who is not a puppet of these large institutions who privatize everything and push the people into poverty

Marriage is religous and/or governmental. The government regulates a marriage in terms of cooperative financial relationships. Governmental marriage also recognizes the relationship of children to parents.

The Church recognizes marriage from a spriritual perspective. You commit to one another before God. A spiritually connected relationship is much more important than the government-issued license if you honor the Creator-God.

Simple solution: Get married by the church. The government has no connection to this marriage. The only concern you have is whether or not her marriage is registered with the government. The relationship of registering children with the state will be a bit more complicated.