Germany? Native born, but no longer for us ...

Hi there. This is Siggi, a native born dual-citizen (German/American) with apx. 27 years of experience in both Countries, the USA as well as Germany. Since I have never spent more than 3-4 years at a time in either of these two Countries, it was very easy for me to see how all of the changes over the past 4 or so decades took place, bit by bit. Today, as of 2018, if I had a choice with a somewhat low budget (below $2000 for a married couple), I would not recommend living in either of these two Countries ... at least not as a retiree.

I can sum up why the USA is out of the question for retirees in a few short sentences. As a retiree, my current mid-level plan health insurance (not qualified for medicaid) would cost me personally 663 USD every month, without dental or optical. Luckily, my wife and I are not forced to reside there, so we don't. There are more guns than people in the USA, death by gun violence is higher than in most 3rd world Countries, and many US States permit the carrying of hidden weapons. Drug usage is at an all-time high USA wide, Students are paying off their astronomical College Tuitions for decades (literally) and the politicians are about as corrupt as one can imagine, due to the thousands (yes, literally) of self-interest and lobbying groups. Much more to say, but as Trump has put it for other places in the World, as far as me and my American born wife from Ohio are concerned, it's actually the USA that's become a Sh___ole Country these days, compared to what it used to be 30+ years ago. Oh, don't get me wrong, visiting the USA for a 15 or a 30 day vacation can be a wonderful and mind-boggling pleasant experience. But actually living there, especially as a retiree with $2000 or less monthly, is almost impossible ... when considering that health insurance is now required by law.

So, having lived so many years in Germany as well, we decided that perhaps it would be more pleasant to live there instead. Such a rich Country ... Fantastic, unbelievable history with age-old culture, Fine Art & Museums galore, Musical festivals Germany wide all year long, Street fairs, Castles & Palaces with Medieval Festivals, Hiking, Biking, long drives on the Autobahn, and diversity everywhere. On top of that, Germany is a great "central place" to be (if traveling is your thing). No better place than Germany, in order to use that as hub to get to Italy, the UK, Ireland, Holland, the Netherlands, France, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Spain, Croatia, and so on. Most Countries can be driven to by car, and most European Countries have open borders which makes travel by car that much more of a pleasant experience. Although most older (45+) Germans would probably disagree with this, Healthcare is so much superior over the USA that it's almost indescribable. Having had all sorts of issues ranging from Nerve damage, to foot operations, and cancer surgery, my wife and I are convinced that the level of care here in Germany is way superior to the level of care that we would have received in the good ol' USA during the past 10+ years. Even dental care and general doctor visits (although often lengthy) are so much more pleasant here ... especially if money is an issue. My wife and I lived her in Germany (Hessen) with our Son from 2005 until 2010. At that time we went back to the USA because of career plans for our son which he could only pursue to his liking in America. Then, in 2015, it was time for my wife and I to leave that ces___l that was once America behind, in order to move back to Germany. It is inconceivable for either one of us to ever live in the USA again, way too many reasons to list here. Sadly, we're also not comfortable in Germany anymore. It's a wonderful Country with so much going on, but for retirees on a fixed income, there are are far better places to be. That's actually why I joind this forum for us, to find out more about a specific place that we already have in mind.

If you have questions about the USA or Germany, feel free to ask. Keep in mind though, most answers would be based on being retired without a job, in other words ... living on your own monthly guaranteed means, which have to get you by for the rest of your life.
Thanks for letting us/me join here.  :)

Wild, shot in the dark ideas

Malaysia is a lovely country as long as you have the cash to join their second home program.
Loads of English speakers around to it's a very soft landing for expats.

More of a challenge is Indonesia, costs are far cheaper but it's harder work and far fewer people speak English. Even paying medical insurance, what is a nothing income in Europe or the US is a very nice living over here.

Just a couple of thoughts to play with, but only for the very open minded as both options mean a serious lifestyle shift.
The big trick is to pick a place with a Pizza hut as one or more of them means the town has everything you're likely to need for day to day living as a foreigner with foreign tastes.

I tried Thailand but it wasn't to my taste, but that's only me and I know a lot of expats settle there and have a good life.

Is it time to get a little wild?

Thanks, Fred.

Moving Overseas & Culture Shock are not too big of an issue for us. But with our retirement income the cost of healthcare in Malaysia as well as some of the nicer areas to live in, are out of the question for us. If I remember correctly from my research, the climate is also hotter in the summer and during the entirety of the year there is much more rain than in areas of Ecuador that we've been looking at.

As an American Citizen, I would not choose Saudia Arabia due to the current political situation there. We did check into Tunesia too, but the hotter climate was one of the deterrents there as well.

Looked into Thailand & Viet Nam also (ditto on Panama, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica). Thailand is a very close 2nd pick for us, very similar in price to Ecuador, excellent Retirement features, etc. In Ecuador it's the slightly better climate and the US dollar as primary currency, which makes Ecuador a better choice for us. Also, we don't plan on renting. In Thailand land/homes are leased for decades with renewable leases. In Ecuador you can own the property outright. That's another plus for Ecuador.

Hah, I like the idea about looking for a Pizza Hut, that's funny, but probably true.  :D  We've totally gotten away from the fast food chains. I honestly can't remember the last time that we visited KFC, Wendys, McDonalds, Burger King, Subways, or any of those other places. It's been several years, that's for sure. We do buy the occasional "Doener" (Turkish fast food) and fries about every 8 weeks or so ... they're not as fat laden.

We've done tons and tons of online research during all of March 2018, and we're not done yet. We have folders full of bookmarks/favorites with info. that we're analyzing for us. Been Online since 1991, so to us the Internet is like breathing or going to the restroom, just daily life for us. Worked Online for many years too. Heck, my wife and I even met Online back in 1996 ... when most people still thought that that was totally taboo to do ... there were even TV Shows about "The Wicked Web" back then.  :D

It is a strange idea to post a rant about USA and Germany, coupled with a question about where else it is better to live, in the GERMANY forum.

In any case, with an income of only 2000/month for two, you are near the poverty line in both countries and cannot reasonably expect to benefit from all the niceties both countries offer that do cost money (e.g. car, travel, etc.).
Since you get what you pay for, this will not be better (only different) in any other country - keep in mind that most of them (and especially the "cheaper" ones) fare much lower on any quality of life index than Germany and USA.
In many cases like yours, moving only leads to another "bad" place on the list and the search continues.
I recommend only to move when one has a positive attitude and predominantly pull factors ("I want to move there because ..." instead of "I must leave this place because ..."), as this is necessary to overcome the unavoidable stress, confusion and frustration of an international move in a good mood.

That said, I also disliked Thailand because I wasn't able to get closer to the locals (and hate living in an expat bubble). But if you don't mind that, and have no problems with (or even like) ubiquitous prostitution, you might be fine there. I lived there 10 years ago on not much more than US$1000/month (not counting holidays and international trips, which would be impossible on your budget), although I earned far more. Please note that it is very difficult to get a proper residence visa for Thailand in your situation and, although some poeple do it, I won't recommend living under the radar and doing regular visa runs.
Malaysia (and probably many other countries) welcomes only wealthy expats (in the MM2H programme) , so there is no visa for folks like you.
Indonesia is a wonderful and cheap country for the adventurous and flexible kinds, but not for retirement. I have no idea about the visa situation (I worked there 20 years ago).
Altogether, I prefer living in Germany and, given the very good social security network, excellent health and elder care, plus all the benefits for poorer folks, I wonder why anyone on a limited budget would want to move out. You won't be financially more independent anywhere else!

Problem with the forum is simply that we have interests in various Countries and had no idea that when you sign up with your present location, which appears to be a requirement, that you're then automatically subscribed to the forum of that Country. I was only trying to sign up and say hello, followed by subscribing to threads on my own when I see the ones that are relevant to us. Ah well ...

Thank you for your comments. I wasn't ranting, but rather ... explaining ... since many people tend to provide inaccurate, incomplete, or even downright negative comments, when very little information is provided. If it wasn't for the health insurance in the USA, we could actually live quite comfortably there, since we always purchased our own property no matter where we lived. So when I talk about $2000 monthly ... that means there's no rent or mortgage involved. My wife and I are living very nicely in Germany, in our own paid-for home, with a very nice 3 year old car. It's the weather and 5 months of winter that's been driving us mad for that past 3 years.
5 months winter temperatures ...
10 months grey skies, rain, sleet, or snow ...
1 month of Spring/Fall in between here and there ...
1 month of Summer weather ... 2 weeks in August, the rest scattered ...

I've spent 27 years in Germany over a time period of 50+ years, so I know exactly how things have changed to the worse, regardless how beautiful everything is, that the Country has to offer. Same with the USA, although I have to admit that the rapidly increasing downward spiral in the US during the past 15 to 20 years has been quite shocking to my wife and I. Never would have thought that such a great Country could fall so far and so fast. People are working 2 - 3 jobs, just to survive month to month and pay their bills. No benefits, no free time, no vacation, and more often than not, no affordable healthcare ... which literally causes millions American families to declare bankruptcy every year, due to astronomical medical bills. (boy, I could tell some first hand stories).

Also, I don't know how much research you've done on your own, but there are plenty of Countries that have phenomenal cost of living for well below $1500 or even $1200 monthly for that matter. So with $2000 monthly, living in a place like Ecuador, Thailand, Costa Rica, Tunisia, and several other places, should be no problem at all. And yeah, we're older so we're looking for peace and quiet, as opposed to luxurious travel or sightseeing trips that require the booking of a Motel. Albeit, for that there's plenty of AirBnb available in some of those Countries as well.
Okay, enough of the ranting & raving ...  ;)
Have an awesome day!  :D

There are general, non-country-specific forums on this site where your thread would be better placed. Check the list at the bottom of this page:
https://www.expat.com/forum/

And by the way: I found more expats complaining about the weather in tropical countries than here (Germany). I must admit that the constant sweatiness with everything rotting and molding quickly does need some getting used to, but I was fine with it in the end. I disliked only those places where the temperature in the cold season goes below comfort, but there are no heaters and thus no place to hide from the cold indoors. This was the case in Taiwan, Southern China, Northern Thailand, Northern India and Tunisia. I find winter much better in temperate climates, where every indoor is warm and you dress appropriately before going out.

Thank you. I already got myself dialed in to some of those other forums. About the heat ...

... we lived on the Gulf coast of Florida for 3 years, and on the East coast of Florida for 6 years, pretty central (but toward the coast), where the summer heat reaches about 33 degrees celsius quite regularily. Combined with 95 to 98 percent humidity ... YES ... it's impossible to walk out of your air-conditioned home without being soaked fairly quickly.

But my wife and I are perfectly fine in temperatures up to 28 or 29 degrees celsius and due to my wife's health condition she actually needs to have around 24 degrees ceslsius 7 days per week. So as long as the climate isn't quite es extreme as it was in Florida, we'll be fine. Thank you for all of your input, it definitely provided a bit of food for thought.

Wow, good luck finding a place that fits all your requirement (AND is cheap).
You certainly don't sound like people ready to step out of your comfort zone!

I think this is a good subject and not off topic at all. I am also from America and living in Germany. I am actually in the process getting German citizenship, which requires giving up my American one. I like Germany or otherwise I would not have chosen to live here. But different stages of life require different things. As long as I am still working, I will stay in Germany. But I also see no reason I should have to stay here for retirement. I am also looking for somewhere a bit warmer and definitely cheaper since I won't have much retirement income. All I can say to Freejack is good luck and please share what results you find.

I have traveled extensively on 5 continents and still haven't found the right place. Many third world countries are no longer so cheap. And in many, while they are nice to visit as a tourist - it is very difficult as a foreigner to live there permanently. There are legal restrictions and one is always targeted as a foreigner – whom many assume is rich. I know this even from many who have married a local. This results in constantly getting cheated, extortion or outright robbery. Then there are the medical considerations. One gets older and has to consider the local health care system. Some places it's primitive. On the other hand, labor costs in many less developed countries is low so that one can afford to hire people to help with the household or basic care.