Confirmed issues with OVERSTAY OF TOURISM VISA

Yes, the development of  Punta Cana has really taken most of the interest from the north coast.  That is where the tourism dollars are along with cruise ships.

As that transition happened to the shiny new and exciting Punta Cana, many flights to dull and worn out POP and its resorts were cancelled, the remaining flights became more expensive and people that liked the north coast style went elsewhere. 

As I said before, the snowbird/longer term overstay visitor is  not significant enough to demand attention from the DR government.  The revenue is in Punta Cana and cruise ship fees.

As a 16 year resident on the north coast full time, I see the north coast is transitioning into a year long expat community with new homes being built in Casa Linda,  Sea Horse Ranch, Sosua Ocean Village,  Costa Azul, etc...

Those longer term residents should actually take action to be "legal" residents.

I  think some of that will change but not to the assistance of Europeans. Here is why: Cruise ships.

So,  statistically a % of all cruise ship passengers who get off the shop and visit the surrounding areas, will come back within the next  2 to 3 years.  That % used to be  20% but I am not up to date on that.

As more and more cruise ships arrive, more passengers take in the North Coast. You will see a resulting  uptick in  tourists coming back to the area. Some will do the all inclusive and some will not.  BUT rest assured this WILL help tourism on the north coast.

The bad news - a very high % of those passengers currently are Americans and Canadians.   As the variety of cruise ships changes then we will see more Europeans arriving on the north coast.  I know some ships also offer  1 week cruise and 1 week stay packages. This will only help the north coast.

It will never replace Punta Cana though for volume and will never return to its "glory days".

Thank you

I beg to differ though, people like me who wish to come for 3 months do contribute to the economy.  And there are many many of us.

The problem is the government don't know what they are doing or want to do.  Surely as a forward thinking government you want every penny of every tourist you can get.

When I look at other countries around the world, they don't seem to have "home grown" problems.

I would of thought tourist cards should be payable-I know the 30 day is paid via your ticket.  But it would be so simple to administer for example:

30 day tourist card 20$ (Increase of 10$)
60 day tourist card 120$
90 day tourist card 180€ thereafter you must apply for a visa.  This is more than the current penalties for over staying.  I would have no problem in paying this.  Additionally a warning of ignoring these would result in a fine of 1000$.

The problem is, and I hate to say this, and I will be accused of all sorts of things. most if not all government officials have never worked in the private sector and don't under commercialism.

They must commercialise this whilst of course observing security with regards to immigration.
I would suggest that most people from the US, Canada and Europe are law abiding people who just want to enjoy the delights of DR.

Ducketts

Agreed.. History has shown once a spot loses its luster, it never returns to the levels where it was before.   

I agree that the cruise ship business will mean some return visits by North Americans on vacations AND lead to more expats settling on the north coast.  I already see the latter since I live here.

Also there is a strong connection to a certain country in eastern Europe that is growing independently of cruise business.

Another uptick is potentially the number from China, although this seems less likely.

Ducketts , how many people like you are there that want to visit from over one to 6 months? Millions?  Hundreds of thousands?  Even as many as 10,000?  I am sure it seems like a "lot" to you or a town like Sosua or Cabarete.

The money I refer to is not how much you spend as a snowbird in local markets or renting apartments. It is revenue. 

The money the government focuses in on is "revenue" . For example, that $10 each visitor pays which is now included in the air fare or the cruise ship price.  11 million  short term tourists times $10 is FAR more than the revenue from those that visit for several months. 


That is why I still insist that the $ from snowbirds is insignificant to the government and they make the rules.

Ducketts I dont disagree with you.  The gov't officials are not really interested in many things, they are interested in their piece of the action.  Sadly  most  politicians in most countries are not  business people,  actual business people who understand how to properly run things!   Sad but true.

What would seem to be a simple solution,  well it will never be simple. Again sad but true.

Try and put it in perspective....

approx how snowbird/long stay visitors are there ?
1,000,000?  less? more?

Then factor in the total visitor count --- 6-7,000,000

The long term people are a fraction of the grand total.
and have little impact on the economy

1,000,000?  not a chance it is that high.  Not a chance honey.   MAYBE  100,000 and that is a stretch.

It is $30 for every tourist. $10 tourist card and $20 departure tax.

ducketts, with respect to the DR, people that stay more than 30 days on a tourist card are not tourists. 

The DR government is quite good at getting money out of tourists, just the $10 per person tourist card and $20 departure tax (thanks for pointing that out Lennoxnev) included in air fairs and cruise tickets provides a great deal of revenue.

Something is potentially in progress for people that stay longer than 30 days.  Time will tell what it is.

I understand

But with my example they would get a lot more revenue

And the other thing is reputation.  All these problems don't enhance this.  You could say they don't care and you are probably right

All I know is a simplified system would make it easier for all.  Regretfully all this is doing is pushing me and others like me to look at other islands.

We will see.  I had already booked my accommodation for 2020 but now I'm not sure what to do.

Ducketts

Well the issue in many cases is cost.  Many will not or cannot go to other islands because it is too expensive to stay  3, 4 or  6 months.  Rentals are expensive, food is more expensive and certainly entertainment is more expensive.  For that reason many come here, especially the north coast. 

Let's see how things progress!   This country is focusing on so many other things at the moment!  Elections are coming.....

Planner= 1,000,000

I was placating the voices who insist that the long term stayers are vital to the economy...
many think so...... not me !!

maybe 100,000 huh ? if that.....

now factor in our importance to the 7,000,000 annual visitors

Exactly.  Sorry I missed your point, kind of like sarcasm......LOL

Yes 100,000 IF that many.

I fully understand.

In Guadeloupe you can get a decent 2 bed condo for about 700-1100$ a month.

But food is much cheaper overall.  I thought might find the figures below interesting show how food prices have gone up in DR.  I certainly noticed this year it was costing more than purchases in a French supermarket.

By the way when are the elections?

Ducketts

Year
Milk
(regular),
(1 liter)
Loaf of Fresh White Bread
(500g)
Eggs
(regular)
(12)
Water
(1.5 liter bottle)
Domestic Beer
(0.5 liter bottle)
Imported Beer
(0.33 liter bottle)
2018    64.99    61.81    99.88    85.61    105.83    161.67
2017    56.90    69.19    89.75    37.50    97.22    127.00
2016    58.25    62.52    87.30    71.43    91.67    167.14
2015    59.00    67.50    83.40    43.75    76.00    104.00
2014    57.99    72.69    68.33    39.33    87.00    137.00
2013    55.40    -    89.60    48.75    65.00    105.00

Elections are May 2020, new gov't  follows in August 2020

Thanks Planner

siempre honey

We will watch to see if any person or party  has any of this on their platform!

From DR1 today:

Quote Originally Posted by william webster View Post
PICHARDO
will they warn a visitor when he leaves that he has been identified as a problem

and needs to apply for extension or residency before coming back to the DR?



Yes. Those that the system provides a warning for next re-entry. Problem is that sometimes it will not issue the warning based on the previous overstays without the present one in record, so the next entry might trigger a re-entry ban on full effect without the warning.

Like I posted, this is due to reliance on the tourist entry records and exit count/date for the passport book number. Until this is refined it will be a hit and miss sort of thing.

Once the Ministry decides on a satisfactory system for both the USA/CAN and EU data controls and storage, this will be streamlines and more efficient.

Until then, I encourage overstayers to instead extend their stay legally before they exit the DR and pay the penalty fees.

**please move my post if not in the proper place. I am just responding to the comment about airfare $$$in regards to being denied entry.

We are in the US-Indiana. We have generally been flying from Indiana to Ft. Lauderdale then from Miami to Santiago. This is because direct flights to POP, as well as connecting flights are considerably more $$. But, our next flight, coming up in August, is from Indy to POP (short plane change in Miami) and is quite reasonable. I am finding these more reasonable flights on American Airlines. Not cheap by any means. But way more justifiable cost wise. And, the flights are good. Not 20-24 hours with long layovers.

I am hoping the changes in Puerto Plata will continue and prices will go down a bit more. *they are even better from Miami.

Probably correct about being a little off topic. We fly to the DR 3-4 times a year from South Carolina to either POP or SDQ. Delta is usually the least expensive for us with a layover in Atlanta. We booked a Nov 5-21 trip and prices started at $380 RT.
This tourist issue thing, real or not, has dropped prices on all travel related commodities ( airfare, hotels and car rentals).

Much of these price changes are also seasonal.  We are not seeing many offers in country that are different from other years.

Correct.... my summer flights are always less

Nothing has changed there.....
My friend arrived a week ago - full plane into POP from JFK

.
"The number is 82 so far in 2019 (just this last quarter) and count will surely go up... "

I want to thank all the contributors to this thread.

I'm sure we can keep calm regarding the government sniping of habitual visa overstayers until we can jointly compile contemporaneous data from the best possible info points. Folks like me, not fleeing daunting winters, determined not to seek residency or citizenship, resolved not to risk driving while illegally present in the DR or invest in real estate here are vulnerable, and need up-to-date and reasonably reliable reports of immigration action against overstayers.

Please continue to contribute your information as a public service. We appreciate it. Suerte -Rick

windeguy :

lennoxnev,   any additional information on the problems the French people who were denied re-entry would be appreciated.

Expat.com has DR forums in several languages.

In the French language expat forum there is reference to a couple from near Sosua having been denied entry earlier this year based upon a Facebook report.

If Pichardo states only 82 in six months, the lack of social media lighting up is explainable. There are about 18% anglophile expat foreigners here. Maybe the 12 or so Venezuelans denied entry earlier this year are in the 82 too?

If this is in the intial phases as Pichardo suggests it makes sense.

The future will tell all.

Yes... we seem to be in the development stages of a 'Roll Out'

Personally,
I realize that I am of no value to the country... just a flea on their back

But the country has value to me....
In that sense, I want to avoid censure - being hoofed out

I will do my best to comply with the rules

CapnRick :

Please continue to contribute your information as a public service. We appreciate it. Suerte -Rick

Absolutely correct.

There is a receding group of expats who live in the past. Relate the past and expect continuation of the past.

They even try to question the honesty of persons who report changes and so supress new information from others.

Expats planning to visit or live in DR and those already here deserve to be advised of all the latest developments and reports in terms of entry requirements and so make balanced judgements on their current or future plans.

True about those living in the past.  Also for some that live in the present and interpret the laws incorrectly regarding overstays.

Time will tell what changes will actually happen. The low priority given to the subject of those that overstay (and hence those that are snowbirds without residency)  because of their fairly small significance to the overall economy means it could still take a while. 

I have no idea yet what they will be, but the gating item seems to be the linkage of immigration data bases so it is simple to track previous overstays.  I suspect those living in the past will be subject to rude awakenings in a year or so.

Yes it's important to keep our eyes and ears open, report what we know to be factual.  Source of info matters. 

Let's keep the hype out of this and you know I won't allow people bashing each other.

This thread has real value and I appreciate everyone's input!

In a way - it's understandable -- Old Habits Die Hard

but the compliance issue is what we should be stressing...IMO
Sure - many say -- I comply by paying on the way out

And that WAS true....
it may not hold for the future.... we shall see

But if people ignore the happenings, they could wind up up with their hands full --- or empty, depending on how you see it

I asked the direct question about if there are changes being made for those that want to spend more time in the DR directly on the Migracion web forum.

This is the information I got back DIRECTLY FROM MIGRACION, Raysa Rodriguez:

- In case of overstaying in the country without the requested extension, there is a high chance of denied re-entry. Request it is the best option in this case.

- Migration for the moment will not delete the charge for those foreign who overstay without request the extension If you overstay.

Rasya Rodriguez previously responded to me with the way to extend a 30 day tourist card to a maximum of 60 days. That information is the same as we have already discussed, which almost nobody will do, but here it is again:

/

- Foreigners who remain more than 60 days can be returned in their next entry.

- Migration still does not plan to eliminate the (over) stay (fee).

/

Good afternoon,

You can extend the stay for more than 30 days, with a letter requesting extension of stay which you deposit in correspondence. I attach the requirements.

* requirements:

1- Request letter of extension of permanence addressed to the DGM

2- Passport valid for a minimum of six (6) months after the extension.

3-Air ticket or return maritime.

4- An address in the Dominican Republic together with the letter.

5- medical certificate issued by an authorized physician with its due exequatur

6- Economic solvency tests

I asked a follow up question to all of this:

What is the maximum extension period of time that a person on a tourist card can request using a request letter? Is it a maximum of 30 more days for a total of 60 days legally in the country?
I will respond with the maximum period of the extension , which I am quite sure is just another 30 days when I hear back from Migracion on that point.

It appears that no simple snow bird/longer term stay visa is in the plans. The bottom line is, this is directly from Migracion and people that overstay are in danger of being denied re-entry. People will still not believe this despite it being directly from Migracion. It is also very clear from this discussion that someone staying for more than 30 days without requesting an extension is illegally in the DR

Thank you, most interesting.

However, if you are not denied entry and you overstay by 30-60 days you just pay the overstay fine on leaving. 

If they want to deny entry next time, surely the logical step is to give you a letter on departure having paid your overstay fine, stating "deny entry" for your next visit which will last for say 18 months or whatever.

On the UK website site it clearly states you can overstay but must pay the overstay fine.

As usual the whole thing is so confusing and very stupid.  Up to now it seems the overstay fines have worked well for most so I am baffled as to why they want to change this.

Ducketts

Nothing confusing.  If you overstay this time you MAY be denied entry next time.   

You can extend up to 60 days, to be confirmed again.

Denied re-entry is believable and it will not be long for expat sites like this one are lighting up with individual accounts of their own denied re-entry. I also think that government officials are required to publicly state gov'ts policies even if some of those policies are not stringently enforced.....

Correct that it is not confusing at all.  The only point that needs confirmation is how long you can extend a tourist card, and I am almost certain the extension is just for 30 days for a maximum legal stay of 60 days.  I am just verifying this point now.

Now we can discuss how ridiculous this all is, but it is reality that if you overstay you could be denied re-entry. A very simple concept. Will you be denied re-entry? Nobody really knows, but there is nothing at all hard about the concepts.

Steverino7777 :

Denied re-entry is believable and it will not be long for expat sites like this one are lighting up with individual accounts of their own denied re-entry. I also think that government officials are required to publicly state gov'ts policies even if some of those policies are not stringently enforced.....

The policy has already been stated.  This thread is primarily about those who are in denial that the policy has already been stated.   You are correct about the lack of uniform enforcement of the policy.

PICHARDO just posted this on DR1.  It appears there is a detail I was not aware of  and that is two consecutive 30 day extensions are possible.  Since virtually nobody is going to request the first extension, the second request is extremely unlikely. Here is PICHARDO's post.  It betrays a knowledge beyond those who actually respond to questions on Migracion's Forum. 

A foreign person who enters the DR on a visa-free 30 days stay, can extend their stay legally using the method of application stated above, each time for a 30 days extra only and the limit is 2 such extensions on a consecutive filing (again by filing a request before the next 30 days are expired). The maximum is 90 days from entry, which breaks down to 30 initial stay, plus 30 ext, plus 30 final ext. These limits are based on a specific need for each extension.

There is no 60 days extension. Only 30 and max of two issued consecutively.

Things are slowly changing and I strongly advise those overstayers to legally extend their stays in the country.

Again, until we don't finalize the General Amnesty and finish and accord with Haiti, the over 90 days visas for winterbirds will not be in the pipes.

It has been said before -
there is a chance you will be warned on exit that you are in peril.

Maybe Yes - maybe No
roll the dice.

The requirements rival the residency list...
seems to be a better route.... residency

We still have questions if the overstay permit is a Unicorn or not !!

one thing certain...time to make decisions... I would say

ducketts :

Thank you, most interesting.

However, if you are not denied entry and you overstay by 30-60 days you just pay the overstay fine on leaving. 

If they want to deny entry next time, surely the logical step is to give you a letter on departure having paid your overstay fine, stating "deny entry" for your next visit which will last for say 18 months or whatever.

On the UK website site it clearly states you can overstay but must pay the overstay fine.

As usual the whole thing is so confusing and very stupid.  Up to now it seems the overstay fines have worked well for most so I am baffled as to why they want to change this.

Ducketts

The UK Foreign Office Travel Advice changed their advice since the spring of 2018 after they received letters from the Ministry of Interior and Police to state one can extend the tourist stay to 60 days (only) and pay the overstay fee on exit and if you stay longer you should seek advice from an immigration lawyer or DGM. It does not now advocate overstay beyond 60 days total and payment of the overstay fine as it did pre 2018.

On arrival you will normally be granted a 30-day stay. This can be extended to 60 days by paying for an extension when you leave the country. If you’re planning to stay for longer, seek advice from a local lawyer or contact the local Immigration authorities.

DGM's advice is that your best option is to  seek extensions if you plan to overstay.

Unfortunately the procedure they post to extend is the same as the current DGM site and not as easy as it could be, albeit some travellers have posted on social media that they have sought short extensions in writing and got them. (I guess the recent US death reporting of persons in not the best of health have made the medical requirement a necessity now.)

Don't expect logic to prevail in such situations here. Let's hope the process gets easier for genuine winter visitors who only seek a few months down here but this is what it is right now.

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