A Different Perspective of Living In PR

I can't say I follow your ideas on a government "takeover", and as far as the "colorism" goes, I've experienced the same thing, and I'm a bit lighter in shade than you... it's when you don't speak their language, some can be resentful, and the idea that "Gringos" are all wealthy, doesn't help, but I've always had wonderful neighbors, and I already told you about the great house we've been renting, for two years now. My landlord is a Christian, my wife and I are Christian, so we are treated quite well.

I have a friend, who owns a 45+ acre farm, in Las Marias. He's been in P.R. 13 years, and speaks Spanish well, (his wife is Colombian), and he also works his own farm, so his neighbors know him as a hard "working" man. He doesn't experience any of this, and he's several shades darker than you. I don't believe racism is in this culture, by and large. Gringos, which loosely translates to "stranger", is about the only predjudice here. Here, the terms; "Negro" (pronounced with a short e), and Prieta, are terms of endearment, not racial slurs, as on the mainland. The only term I've heard used in a negative connotation, is; "Gringo". But even then, that is rare.

As I said, I think my situation is isolated, but happened none-the-less. One house that seemed perfect for us in Aguadilla, the lady flat out said, she didn't want us to rent from her because she doesn't think black people are clean. Period. The craziest thing about that is we were going to be taking it over from a couple on this very forum! Whom we spoke to on a thread a couple years back before either of us moved to the island. Small world, but showed that lady's racism. The couple on here was white and even had a large dog. They said the lady was super sweet to them and even brought them extra furniture. I offered the lady more money and told her she could keep the ceiling fans I would install as well as the brand new washer and dryer I had. Fortunately/Unfortunately I saw what happened to the very road she lived on after the hurricane. So again, I just think that perhaps we lucked out and had a learning experience about different cultures, moving abroad and some personal things such as concern over money (as I lost A LOT) and learning to trust my intuition. It was brutal enough before Maria, couldn't imagine living through that with 2 toddlers.

But I understand the term Gringo, and wasn't saying that any other race isn't treated poorly, that's part of the significance of my post. Most people thinking of moving are not Puerto Rican and I feel they should know they will more than likely be treated differently than what they're used to.

The people that moved in next to us where an interracial couple, Asian and Caucasian. Landlord treated them like crap, he was also a rich doctor as mine was, ripping people off. The husband was a private pilot for a rich Dominican man. Their house was also in disarray and they too didn't fully unpack because at their earliest opportunity they were moving back to Texas. We stayed in Dorado Del Mar in Villas de Gulf. Another neighbor we got friendly with, a Mexican couple in the Army, home was also leaking and moldy and appliances weren't working. Ironically, their landlord was a doctor as well! They just fixed everything themselves because the landlord could've made things difficult for them with their Commanding Officer.

So, the takeaway is.... if someone is thinking about moving to PR, and you aren't of Hispanic ethnicity, you will likely be treated more poorly than you're used to overall. Especially if you plan on renting from someone who is well-off. The landlords I experienced that were low to middle-class were nice, but... their homes weren't suitable and many of them couldn't afford to fix certain issues.

There was just one lady in Isabela whose husband would work on the house. It was nice, but she got a little too comfortable in our conversation and told us how her husband takes forever to fix things.... lol. So yeah, that was that.

Interesting topic here.... chrishamrick103, i'm sorry for some of the experiences you had while here on the island and more important how they made you feel.. I think any time one is in a transitional period in a place that is foreign to them adapting to the newness of it all is one of the biggest hurdles to overcome mainly because of the expectations we can sometimes have going in are sometimes so high that when something does't quite go they way we thought, frustration and disappointment can easily set it.    I've been a permanent resident here now for 4 years, and prior to that I came at least 2 times a year over an 8 year time frame. I can't tell you how many times some of the items you mentioned  ( mainly the cutting in line) have taken place.  We are all entitled to our own opinions about how we feel we are being treated and I can easily see where you are coming from with your statements on how you were treated.

My overall experience here has been different from the one that you and your family had  and i think it is important for anyone considering a move here to know that your average local, native Puerto Rican has no idea of what "racism"as a whole even is outside of what they may have heard from a relative in the states or seen on TV.   From a color standpoint, many Puerto Ricans are a mix of Spanish, Taino ( indian), and African decent, and can be one of many different shades,  So the term "racism" for your avg local here truly makes no sense whenever the topic comes up..

Stereotyping on the other hand is prevalent not only here, but in many cultures that I have had a chance to spend a majority of time in. Especially towards mainland Americans in general. This is just  my opinion, but I do think there is a difference between racism and stereotyping .  Neither are right and some may consider them equal but based on many personal  experiences of each  I for sure don't.   

I think that when considering a move to Puerto Rico if one can keep an extremely open mind and manage the expectation level in stages rather than having them extremely high initially , it will be easier to adapt to the culture here.....but it does take time.

That is a very strange set of misfortunes that happened to you. Dorado is a different world, with many people that have money and tend to be part of a Click.

I dont hang around rich people so I do not know what they think or how they behave.

Limiting my comments to queue cutting:

Respect for the queue is a unique cultural rule of only a few countries in the world: The anglophone countries (the US, UK, Canada, Australia, etc.), and Ireland to a lesser extent. In Latin America it is respected at times. In continental Europe it is generally not respected. In Asia, forget about it. In Puerto Rico, because it is a mix of the US and Latin America, some people take it seriously (e.g., my in-laws) while others could care less.

I've been cut several times in PR. When you call them on it, they act like you're the one causing the problem. Puerto Ricans are generally loath to call people out on antisocial behavior and when you do, the guilty party will react like they are the victim. It's disappointing but prevalent.

Line cutting happens to everyone including natives. Some were not raised by the "Correa" or "Chancleta" (belt and slipper) so they have no respect for others, usually younger generation.

I'm sorry for your experiences, Chrish.

I bought an apartment in VSJ almost 3 years ago, and although I'm not living in PR full-time yet, I'm down at least every month or so, and, have not really experienced any prejudice. Or maybe I'm too naive to recognize it when it happens, or perhaps just don't go looking for it or expecting it. And I'm about a gringa as it gets.

I can't comment on your experiences renting, since I have only owned a place, but I have heard that renting can be more problematic, since there are few protections for renters. After hearing of some tenants' woes, I think I made a better choice by outright purchasing.

I don't speak much Spanish, but am eager to learn, and will try it when I can and solicit correction from locals. I'm constitutionally shy, but when I get anywhere near a Latin band, I'm right in there, dancing with myself usually (or with other women), since my husband is a real stick in the mud in that regard, flying his gringo flag). I don't join in for acceptance, just to have fun. You name the style, including Flamenco, and I can keep up. The locals think I'm a bit loco (or is it loca?), but they appreciate me for what and who I am. Or maybe they're really laughing at me behind my back, which, if they are, wouldn't bother me anyway.

VSJ has its own flavor, I suppose, since the locals there are used to people the world over coming to visit. We have our favorite, daily "hang-outs", where we've gotten to know the proprieters and some of their regular clientele quite well on a personal and intimate level and I think they appreciate that we've taken the time to cultivate that relationship.

I think it has much to do with attitude. I'm not Puerto Rican, and will never be, but I feel their spirit and in many ways PR is my "home".  PR is part of the US, but it has its own personality, customs, challenges, and rewards. Anybody who expects it to be like the mainland, only more tropical, will likely be disappointed and frustrated. It's because it's NOT like the mainland that tweeks my innate sense of adventure.

Renters have a lot of rights here... unless the landlord knows the judge!

mac00677 wrote:

Renters have a lot of rights here... unless the landlord knows the judge!

I've heard some horror stories. Maybe tenants aren't aware of the the rights they have in PR.

Except racism (didn't experience it myself but my daughter in school)I made the same experiences.
Living in Germany since December again after 9 years and most things are just soo much easier, faster, better over here.

lgustaf wrote:

mac00677 wrote:

Renters have a lot of rights here... unless the landlord knows the judge!

I've heard some horror stories. Maybe tenants aren't aware of the the rights they have in PR.

What is the name and number of your realtor that sold you the house?, somebody is asking me for a realtor in OSJ.

Darwin Cancel, Cancel Realty. He is a broker. His family goes back to the Spanish court. His office is right there at 301 Calle Luna. Cell 787-447-1040.

lgustaf wrote:

Darwin Cancel, Cancel Realty. He is a broker. His family goes back to the Spanish court. His office is right there at 301 Calle Luna. Cell 787-447-1040.

Thanks

I think that it's safe to say that when you move somewhere else different culturally it's expected that your not going to be treated the same as the native locals. It's not a Puerto Rico thing it's an all over thing. Even here in the states this happens with some Southerners with Northerners "Yankees" and even within the state you live in. Here in southeastern Connecticut it's very different from southwestern Connecticut in terms of classism.

My wife and I met in Puerto Rico. She is a dark-skinned Puerto Rican and I am Italian-American. I have nothing but wonderful experiences in Puerto Rico. Before I knew my wife I had been travelling to the island. Racism is not common on the island like it is in the US. However, it is not unusual to be treated differently (as the gringo which is assumed you have money seeing you moved onto their island of high poverty) if your not a native local but again that goes for practically anywhere.

It is very unfortunate that you left with bad feelings to the point you "cringe" whenever spanish is spoken now. I am hoping you are wise enough not to judge a whole culture based on your time on the island. It really is not the norm to go through all that you did. I think the best thing to come from your experience is to research and visit the area often before making a big move (whether in the states or outside) to decide if it is a good fit for you culturally, community wise, neighborhood classes, economically, etc. and it will save you a lot of grief. Plus, you have a better idea of what you're getting into.

Marion-Olga wrote:

Living in Germany since December again after 9 years and most things are just soo much easier, faster, better over here.

Not to be mean or so but it helps a lot over there if you're German....
My then-wife was German so I didn't have a lot of problems. Same here, my now-wife is PuertoRican.
For anything involving government or other sort of official stuff my wife takes care if it (like my then-wife in Germany did). No problems for the Dutch guy.

Chris, I feel you. We're planning on leaving within the next two years. We share similar experiences and although we make the best with our situation, It's just not the place for us and our kids. Best of luck now that you're back in the states!

Gary wrote:

Marion-Olga wrote:

Living in Germany since December again after 9 years and most things are just soo much easier, faster, better over here.

Not to be mean or so but it helps a lot over there if you're German....
My then-wife was German so I didn't have a lot of problems. Same here, my now-wife is PuertoRican.
For anything involving government or other sort of official stuff my wife takes care if it (like my then-wife in Germany did). No problems for the Dutch guy.

You are right, it helped!😊🙄
And my blue eyes helped even more, hahaha!😇😇😇

I am a “white” skinned Puertorrican and during my time in Germany my German girlfriend mother was not too happy about me dating her daughter, she asked her where did she find that dark man.

My German girlfriend and I would travel to France to buy good wine then stop for lunch someplace in France, i am not sure who the servers disliked more, my German girlfriend or me, but they were rude everytime and we did several trips to France.

There is always an asshole or two who do not like foreigners which is what Gringo means.

I have blue eyes, and my husband is a "ginger," with ancestry from England and Scotland. We never noticed any prejudice or discrimination, although we were surrounded by Puerto Rican neighbors. They went the extra mile to help us after Maria. We love them!

While there is always some prejudice in the world, a lot of what happens around us is governed by our attitude. If we sour early on due to a bad experience, other notice it in our tone, in how we conduct ourselves and see it as a negative so they behave differently toward us than they would otherwise.

As a minority in the states, I been tru some abuse in the last 40 years, it is a common thing in the states. There are thousands if not more US mainlanders in PR who apparently do not have a sour life in PR as they been in the island for decades.

In the US there are also Click Groups where you have to fit in in order to be part of the community, this is specially common among upper middle class and high class. If you are living in that type of community in the states or PR you are not likely to be accepted if you do not meet the Click parameters, it is a fact of life anywhere. Right or wrong it is the way it is.

By the way, busting a few teeth sometimes helps.

Sadly true, Rey~

Very much true, Rey. It's not a Puerto Rico “thing”. Classicm, racism and prejudices are everywhere even moreso in the US, unfortunately.

Some of you may disagree, and that is fine, that is what makes America great.

A lot of people in the US are going around destroying flags, monuments, books, and some ways of life because they are ashamed of the past. I think they are mistaken, we should have reminders of our past so they can remind us of what we did wrong and not repeat it. Trying to erase history is foolish.

The sense of guild of some is so exaggerated that is becoming illogical, instead of helping bring equality, they are putting them above themselves and others. I have heard of people say that they are ashamed of being white. That is ridiculous. one should be ashamed of our actions not who or what we are, that road leads to destruction of our life and suicide.

US is still the land of opportunity, regardless of our color or culture we can raise above our current position. People should stop discriminating so there is an even playing field, BUT....... they should stop there, and let us minorities fight our way up. Don't grease the run way, don't make it to easy, don't throw money at me, let me do it on my own, let me take pride in what I accomplish because I accomplished it myself and it was not given to me. Let me have pride on my own accomplishments.

As to hate speech, both sides are doing it to each other. Most of what I see from the side lines (not born in mainland or raised in mainland) is that both groups are keeping the hate ambers hot and teaching their kids more hate. It is not white against blacks, it is in my eyes also black against white. Look inward and you will see I am right about this. Both sides are doing it¡¡¡¡ We all have to put it aside, give EQUAL, NOT BETTER chance and let the people raise on their own merits.

Some will raise above, some will struggle, some will choose to stay as is and continue the hate, but eventually they will die out. If we do not teach hate, if we don't teach superiority, if we do not tell our children that we are victims, we will become more equal.

You can not eliminate poverty, you can ease it, but not eliminate it. To erase it, we can not be a capitalist country, and that would be foolish, it would bring the country to its knees. If we eliminate capitalism we eliminate the reason to be better, to raise above, and we end up with a Blah life, where everyone is screwed. Other countries like China, Russia and many others with governments that are very different from ours are practicing capitalism. True in some cases only some, the privileged for example are the only capitalist and the rest of the population lives a Blah no hope life, but it is there to give the incentive to raise above and that keeps the economy. and our lives going.

So yes I believe in democracy, equality and the need to even out the playing field, but not grease the wheel, let every individual raise or fall on their own merits or lack there of. I believe in Capitalism. I was raised from a very poor family in PR, in the general area of "El Fanguito" (look it up), an area next to the smelly Martin Peña lagoon that was used as the latrine of the people and the roads were mud, where many houses had dirt floors. I found my way on my own, with not help from family or friends, with no group yelling for equality for me, with no favoritism for being a minority, I did it on my own. Now I am going back to PR to retire and live a better life with some good savings to carry me past my natural life. PEOPLE can do it on their own if they want to.
Rey

Hello Chris, sorry to here of your troubles.  I also moved to Dorado and live in a very affluent area although we are not. We moved in 10 days prior to Irma lost that apartment then moved to another place and Maria destroyed that place.  A couple we met took us into their home a place that we could not afford and took us in .  After a month living with them they asked if we would rent their place at a substantial discount as long as will let them come down and we help with some repairs . So far my wife and I have been lucky. The 1st place kept our security deposit after Irma made their apartment unlivable the 2nd landloard gave us a full refund no questions asked.  We got lucky that we met a wonderful and kind couple who helped make a difficult time Irma and Maria a lot easier.  I drive my wife back and forth to San Juan everyday for her work. So far everyone has been nice.  I only had one line cut and that was right after Maria and it wasn't worth the fight as he was 10 people in front of me.  I love PR been coming for 20 years and I really like Dorado. Sorry to hear about your situation here it could of easily been my wife and I if we didn't meet such wonderful new friends

FYI: Rey is a complete, die-hard, Trump supporter.

I travelled the entire island right out of college and really fell in love with Rincon, Puerto Rico... that was 20 years ago and now I live there part time (winter months) and the rest are spent at my other home in Oregon.  Love the culture and vibe and it's a mixture of people from the States, Europe, Canada and also those born in Puerto Rico... we all hang out together and have a great time.  It might be that Rincon is small enough (no stop lights and yet most are courteous and let other drivers cross or enter the street just fine) that everyone get's to know everyone and there's always something going on in the town...  Bingo Night at a Beach Bar or Thursday night Art Walk in the Plaza with musicians and artists.     The only time in 20 years I've ever had an issue was from an impatient Aguadilla Police Officer who thought it was okay to tap my bumper with his patrol car as I waited in my legally was parked outside of a bank.... he apologized and it was over.   As for the "Tax Stamps" I must admit that system of trying to pay a bill needs revamped and modernized.  I won't even talk about PREPA (Power Authority) because I don't think anyone is impressed with them at this point.   Wish everyone the best....