How travelers are treated

One of the biggest complaints from tourists is the constant overcharging from sellers,so yes it's true.

Easy way is find some of the students who want to learning English go with you in your travel for free. They very happy and you can make sure they will help you to buy souvenir or everything at lower prices.

supertaper wrote:

I just read a post by a person who had nothing good to say about visiting Vietnam his main complaint was that the vendors and market sellers and restaurants were constantly trying to rip him off, his thought was because he was a backpacker but he also heard the same complaints from other tourists he meet

These complaints come up sometimes. There are many factors. Any 3rd world country is going to have more scammers because of poverty and there is desperation and some will look for easy money. Same thing in any North American city in the poor neighborhoods. Some locations are magnets for this: Bui Vien in Saigon especially, the backpacker ghetto. Then consider a lot of backpackers/tourists are very young and not street smart. They probably get confused about the crazy money. Crooks can spot the novice traveler. Ben Thanh market also has high tourist traffic, so more targets. Then some people just have bad luck.

supertaper wrote:

,his believe is that he was not spending enough money and that he heard that the Vietnamese people fill we owe them and its an insult if you count pennies while your there visiting there country

That just sounds ridiculous to me.

supertaper wrote:

Does anyone know of these things happening to tourest alot and if so how do you avoid it happening to start with and he said the samething about the hotels trying to over charge for train or taxie fair true or not

When you arrive, be aware of your surroundings. You will be walking, gawking at things, wearing tourist clothes, so be more careful. Don't stay in Bui Vien type areas. Beware purse and mobile phone (and dog) snatchers on motorbikes. Only use Vinasun taxis (Mai Linh if you must) and don't ask "How much to _ _ _" because then you will get a high flat rate; instead make sure he turns on the meter, and then watch the route on google maps on your smart phone.

After you are here for awhile and transition into an expat, you won't be recognized so obviously as a tourist. (ex: wear long pants, no back pack).  You will be on motorbike, not walking (Vietnamese never walk) and living in a normal neighborhood.

@ gobot.
X 10 "likes", if I could.

gobot wrote:

Only use Vinasun taxis (Mai Linh if you must) and don't ask "How much to _ _ _" because then you will get a high flat rate; instead make sure he turns on the meter, and then watch the route on google maps on your smart phone.

... You will be on motorbike, not walking (Vietnamese never walk) and living in a normal neighborhood.

Sound advice from Gobot, but if I were a tourist, I would use Uber or Grab so I would know the fare in advance and not worry about being taken for a ride (no pun intended). 

Gobot is also correct that Vietnamese never walk, but there are a few exceptions.  In this case, my spouse and I are the exceptions.  We're the expats (though half of "we" is Vietnamese by birth) who walk, and walk, and walk.  I imagine we've covered at least a few hundred kms of pavement on foot since we've been here.

Thanks for the advice that sounds like a really good idea I can learn some great shopping hints ,have a great day

Thanks for all the sound advice there my friend I will defiantly follow your advice while am there this time and I will base my thought on moving there on my  experience this trip once again thanks and have a nice day

Thanks for backing up what GoBot had to say and I appreciate your input on this matter I can use all the advice I can get to help make this trip a really fun one for me on my first time there ,I was hoping it would be as fun as when I went to Japan for two months ,it's the complete opposite there the most honest and friendlly  it's an honor to them to be able to surve you in there store or resraunt  people I have ever met it's an insult to tip and if you leave money on the table they will run out the door to give it back and every time I went to the store to by something I would hold out my mony and they would show me how much it was for there  money so they help me figuar out how to use there curenance had a great time there hopping for the same there

You won't have any trouble @supertaper for two reasons:  you've been abroad and adapted to 'different' ways before. Plus you anticipate 'fun'.

Be sure to travel to other cities and towns, they are all different.

You know, I think Vietnam should come with a warning label. It shouldn't be the first foreign country a new foreign traveler goes to. You'd have to spend a week in Spain, Mexico or Bali, and not at a resort, before you qualify for a Vietnam visa. The heat, traffic anarchy, spicy food, language difficulties, missing sidewalks, crazy money - It can be too much culture shock for some. 

in vietnam learn to Bargain with them, dont just buy and buy even if you think it's expensive. let them run after you if they want you to buy their stuff, say No always at the firstime and you will just know they will keep on Lowering the price for you and give you more deals.
There is this one time a lady trying to sell this thing used to scratch your back for 100k vnd, looking at the product it's very cheap, so i just keep ignoring it until she give me 4 pcs for 100k vnd.  but still dont buy it cause i dont need it. but it's a good deal already too. knowing that thing will only cost 10k - 15k vnd.

Tourists think that they have to haggle everywhere.
Maybe that's why in places like the Ben Thanh Market, tourists have to pay more for everything.

But also at street food stalls and markets, I sometimes pay 50-100% more than my wife pays when she goes without me. But especially the prices at streetfood stalls are very low and therefore the extra amount does not make anyone poor.

If you start shopping in supermarkets and shopping centers like Big C or MM Market, you will find out the usual prices. Then you can better estimate what prices you can accept in places like the Ben Thanh market.

In general, I buy at street markets only if there are prices tags, or I let my wife go shopping.
But also if there are price tags you have to be careful.
For example, in Bangkok they write 100 Baht on the price tag for a t-shirt and then they tell the tourists this t-shirt price is only valid if you buy 3 t-shirts. Otherwise, a single t-shirt costs 150 baht.

Taxi riding in HCMC are also not so bad than in Bangkok, because all use the meter.
My experiences with taxis in HCMC are:
- The prices offered at the HCMC airport are too high.
- Grab has the lowest prices (and you know the final price in advance)
  followed by Mai Linh and Vinasun.
- Small cars have cheaper rates than the big cars.
- Sometimes they drive a longer way than usual and therefore the price
  is 50-100% higher.
- Some driver return 1000 Dong, others keep up to 2000 Dong without
  asking, or some tell that they have no return money and expect tip.

I'm Vietnamese American so my view may be slightly skewed (versus Vietnamese Vietnamese and non-Asian American) but here's what I've seen.

Definitely install and use the Uber and Grab app but also get a feel for the taxi (VinaSun and Mai Linh) rates as Uber and Grab will backdoor you during their "busy" time.

Different prices for different people is actually a truer form of capitalism then what you get in the West.   To a certain degree people who feel that they are being ripped off when they get different prices are because they have been coddled and entitled.  They are in a foreign country and yet they are trying to impose their own concept of markets, prices and fairness onto that country's culture.

I've not gotten the feeling that they feel that foreigners "owe" them so much that they will always do what they fill will maximize profits.  Foreigners do not bother to know the mininum price and have more disposable cash so they charge higher prices.  Locals know the rough price so starting at a high price would just waste time so why bother.   And it not just a race thing.  A vendor in Hanoi would happily gouge a rich Vietnamese tourist from HCM if they got the chance.
P.S. While not feeling they are "owed" many VN do believe that in the West money grows on trees and do not understand why tourists are so cheap.  They are also not able to tell the difference between a backpacker on a budget and those 30k-ers that like to play around in District 1 as if they are millionaires.

There a balance to everything.  The iron triangle.  What do you value?  What are you willing to give up?
- Japan is tourist friendly but that's because they've been westernized to a certain degree.  And that comes at a high cost.
- Thailand has partially learned to cater to tourist so the treatment is better then Vietnam but the cost is also medium ranged.
- Vietnam is on the tail end of catering specifically to tourists.   But even when they "rip" tourist off the price is still comparatively low.  And the experience is genuine.

videriant wrote:

I've not gotten the feeling that they feel that foreigners "owe" them so much that they will always do what they fill will maximize profits.  Foreigners do not bother to know the mininum price and have more disposable cash so they charge higher prices.

This is the best analysis I have seen on why there is double pricing.  In the open markets, where everything is subject to bargaining, the seller will naturally start high.  However the analysis falls short in some areas.  It does not explain or justify why there are differential prices in medicine and at government run tourist venues.  The latter, in particular, seems to give a certain government sanction to the idea of double pricing.  If the government charges foreigners quadruple the price at the entrance, why shouldn't the soda seller feel entitled to charge more?

THIGV wrote:

videriant wrote:

I've not gotten the feeling that they feel that foreigners "owe" them so much that they will always do what they fill will maximize profits.  Foreigners do not bother to know the mininum price and have more disposable cash so they charge higher prices.

This is the best analysis I have seen on why there is double pricing.  In the open markets, where everything is subject to bargaining, the seller will naturally start high.  However the analysis falls short in some areas.  It does not explain or justify why there are differential prices in medicine and at government run tourist venues.  The latter, in particular, seems to give a certain government sanction to the idea of double pricing.  If the government charges foreigners quadruple the price at the entrance, why shouldn't the soda seller feel entitled to charge more?

I do not have experience in buying medicine so I can't speak to that but I can make up something for the tourist venues.  While the credibility can be doubt it can easily be argued that the difference in pricing at tourist venues can be explained away as groups that the government is and isn't already collecting taxes from.  Similar to how in the United States some state universities have different tuition costs for in-state and out-of-state students.

My father had made a comment over 20 years ago about how the double pricing at tourist venues was poorly handled.  When you list a higher price for tourist they feel that they are being ripped off.  My dad's suggestion was to list a single admission price and then below that have a "discount" amount for locals.  It's just semantics but locals getting a discount is easier to mentally accept then "i'm a foreigner and I am getting charged more".

Current :
Vietnamese - 20,000 VND
Foreigner - 40,000 VND

Changed
Entry fee - 40,000 VND
Local discount - (20,000 VND)

videriant wrote:

a single admission price and then below that have a "discount" amount for locals.  It's just semantics but locals getting a discount is easier to mentally accept then "i'm a foreigner and I am getting charged more".

That's what FL and CA have done for their locals for a very long time now.  Discounts are offered to locals in restaurants, shops, entertainments, recreational activities, professional services, and cruises.

This way of pricing is referred to as a "Kamaaina discount" in Hawaii.  It is generally not advertised.  You have to ask for it and show a local driver's license.  Your father had a good idea.

When I said medicine, I didn't mean pharmacies.  I meant doctor's offices and hospitals.  To a certain extent it may be justified at hospitals as they have to assign English (or sometimes Russian) speaking doctors and nurses.  At some locations I have noticed that foreigners get seen a little sooner.  My orthopedic doctor charged me more at his office without any special place in line.  I was willing to live with it but I quietly blew a little steam when I brought a quite wealthy Viet Kieu friend for an office visit and the staff charged her the Viet price.

Traditional taxis in Ho Chi Minh City use meter system like in most developed countries, so the rate suppose to be consistent. But the drivers cheat in one area that I observed. They cheat with the starting rate when passengers sit in the taxi. Each driver charges different starting rates. After this starting rate, the meters run smoothly and bill you as drivers cover more kilometers /miles. Here are the various starting rates I observed when I sat in taxis in Ho Chi Minh City on my last trip in January 2018.

1.  4,000
2. 5,000
3.12,000

I observed VND5,000 is the standard  rate that most drivers charge. I did not ride grab or Uber.

The second hidden or additional rate comes when you take taxi to the airport. Taxi drivers call it parking fee when your driver stops at TSN Airport in a minute for you to get out. I observed these rates.

VND2,000
VND5,000

I think the standard parking rate is under VND5,000, but they also charge different rates.

Libhero wrote:

Traditional taxis in HminIo Chi Minh City use meter system like in most developed countries, so the rate suppose to be consistent. But the drivers cheat in one area that I observed. They cheat with the starting rate when passengers sit in the taxi. Each driver charges different starting rates. After this starting rate, the meters run smoothly and bill you as drivers cover more kilometers /miles. Here are the various starting rates I observed when I sat in taxis in Ho Chi Minh City on my last trip in January 2018.

1.  4,000
2. 5,000
3.12,000

I observed VND5,000 is the standard  rate that most drivers charge. I did not ride grab or Uber.

The second hidden or additional rate comes when you take taxi to the airport. Taxi drivers call it parking fee when your driver stops at TSN Airport in a minute for you to get out. I observed these rates.

VND2,000
VND5,000

I think the standard parking rate is under VND5,000, but they also charge different rates.

Maybe the taxi companies have different rates. I am not sure, but I think that Mai Linh starts with 5000 and Vinasun with 12000. Because they have different kilometer rates.

I can say that being a foreigner in Vietnam trying to buy things on the street is similar to being someone in America wearing a T-shirt that says "I'm a millionaire" trying to buy a car from a used car dealership.

Heck, it's even similar to my experience being a tourist in New York city trying to buy anything on the street.

Talking about double pricing, IMO it's just capitalism in its rawest form. Most street vendors in Vietnam don't know enough to pay attention to buyers' experience. I wouldn't call that "ripping off". Or, call it whatever you want, but it's no different from, say, buying a $120 pair of Nike shoes from Macy's in the US. The only main difference here is at Macy's you feel good parting with your money. Macy's must have paid no more than $50 for them to Nike, who paid no more than $30 to their suppliers, who in turn paid no more than $5 to their workers. Oh by the way, that same pair of shoes are sold for 50% less (or 50% more) in other markets.

Both Macy's and the Vietnamese street vendors are trying to do the same thing, that is maximizing their profit, only that Macy's is a bit more successful in doing so :-)

Full disclosure: I'm a Vietnamese living in America.

Your Macy's analogy is good except the numbers may be a little wrong.  Nike probably pays that factory owner in Vietnam about $10 for that pair of shoes and the factory is paying the worker about $1 as the daily wage is close to $10.  If they make more than 10 pairs, the cost is even lower.

What a funny post.

Basically we should get local rates and never be treated as a tourist or any differently than local people?

Where on Earth can you do that?

VN is the best coutry I have lived in so far. I have lived in a few and ALL treat you differently than locals.

A vietnamese girl was raped and burned to death in the UK. In Sunderland.

I will take paying more for my bananas any day.

Andy Passenger wrote:

Maybe the taxi companies have different rates. I am not sure, but I think that Mai Linh starts with 5000 and Vinasun with 12000. Because they have different kilometer rates.

There's also different rates depending on the type and size taxi you get into.  It should be clearly listed on the dashboard underneath the meter though.  The scam would be whether the meter is rigged to measure km incorrectly or the driver takes a roundabout route.

And I don't know if it changed, but I remember in Singapore, which is supposed to be more westernized,  20 years ago they would have different rates depending on whether you hailed a taxi or called and had one sent to you and may be different day and night rates.  At night, during peak hours, taxis would refuse to stop and pick people up even if they were empty so everyone would be forced to call a taxi and pay higher rates.

THIGV wrote:

videriant wrote:

I've not gotten the feeling that they feel that foreigners "owe" them so much that they will always do what they fill will maximize profits.  Foreigners do not bother to know the mininum price and have more disposable cash so they charge higher prices.

This is the best analysis I have seen on why there is double pricing.  In the open markets, where everything is subject to bargaining, the seller will naturally start high.  However the analysis falls short in some areas.  It does not explain or justify why there are differential prices in medicine and at government run tourist venues.  The latter, in particular, seems to give a certain government sanction to the idea of double pricing.  If the government charges foreigners quadruple the price at the entrance, why shouldn't the soda seller feel entitled to charge more?

Exactly.

I live in Hiep Tan, which is about 8 km west of D1.
Here there is no bargaining. I pay the same price of everyone because they never see tourists.
My GF says that people bargain in tourist areas because Vietnamese know everything is over priced because of the (tourist) market. 
But this is the same in every country I have lived or visited for extended times and that's a few dozen.
I've also become much better about over spending. I won't spend that extra dollar anymore. I'll wait for my full change, because if I don't, I'm part of the above problem, because it says money is NOT important to me.
Nobody tips out here. if the restaurant bill is 398,000, my gf waits for that 2000 vnd note.

I have been here 2 months as an expat and more often than not, no problem. I find most Vietnamese people are very polite and kind. This is not the case in France and other countries.

For the backpaper s situation, you'll encounter these issues all over the world particularly in poor/developping countries...

Just wear long pants and no backpack...

I was there for 2 weeks back in March of 2017 and i didn't feel that way at all . i may have had a couple of problems . one was paying about $8 bucks for 2 mangos. i asked in Vietnamese how much they were and i didn't understand her response and bought 2 but later realized later what i paid.
overall i thought i was treated well .
I am planning on going back this October for 3 weeks.

HanaNguyen0790  said

"Easy way is find some of the students who want to learning English go with you in your travel for free. They very happy and you can make sure they will help you to buy souvenir or everything at lower prices."

---------------------------------------------------------

That's exactly my plan.... I've done that in several other countries... a very pleasant and effective way to make the most of your time and help a local while you do it.

Not so much for avoiding high "tourist prices", more for guiding me out of the routine "tourist track" and getting to see and meet the "real Vietnam".

I'm an experienced world traveler, but I'm new to Vietnam, so a bit of local advice on the best places/sites/connections to find such local guides/friends/companions would be appreciated.

Universities and Colleges are obvious sources, but would security let an 83 year old Caucasian in to the campus? ........ (even a handsome and witty one? - Lol!)

Cheer, Oz Jon

I find it pretty disustingly racist frankly.

It's not just that evreyone tries to rip me off, we cant even go anywhere and buy anything because if they've seen me and my gf or her family together - they will try and rip them off too, as they have that mighty whitey millionaire stink on them.

And i dont buy that the guy with 3 restaurants, 2 houses, kids in private schools, cars etc really needs to overcharge me 200% for a meal whilst trying to show off his crap english. but they always do.....

Ironic as i'm skint, crippled and jobless.