Corporal Punishment in Vietnam Schools.

You can teach your kids to start fighting back. There are videos on FB that kids actually organized a beat down on teacher who abused their students.

My understanding, based on observation and not reading rules, is that there is only one person in each school who administers corporal punishment.  This is best described as the guy who beats the drum between classes.  He has a stick but I believe he can only strike the buttocks.  The man who held this position in the school where I did most of my teaching used the actual use of the stick only rarely and wisely used the threat to great effect.  In fact, I think the threat of calling the parents to pick students up from school was even more effective as the beating they would get at home would be a lot worse.  Like most of Asia, Vietnam has a shame, rather than guilt, based culture, and calling the parents brings shame to the family.  I once sent both the perpetrator and the victim to the office (at a different school) and unfortunately both parents were called.  I actually saw fit to apologize to the victim later.

As far as your going to the school, I think you will be wise to let your wife go instead.  You could actually make things worse.

Ok....I'll ask,,
Have you asked yourself...Why he was cained, in the first place?

Thanks THIGV.
My issue is the fact the stick is used at all and the fact it is illegal to do so.
I've lived here going on 15yrs and have a basic understanding of the culture and we would be more than happy to be shamed than to see welts on the bodies of our children. My wife is more than capable of handing out the corporal punishment if required and that's where it should rest. Not in the hands of a belligerent alcoholic, undereducated and incompetent teacher.
Be assured that more than one person wields a stick around my kids' schools and the buttocks are not the sole target. Perhap he missed on my son yesterday as he has a 4" by 1" welt on his lower back.
Also the confiscation of a child's shoes and sending him home barefoot is simply deplorable. It's not as though he was misbehaving. He was wearing between the toes thongs as opposed to the over the toes type thongs which are regulation apparently.
Only my wife will be attending on Monday as she has forbid me from going and I agree it would not be a good idea.
I am still considering warning this individual off privately though.
Once again, thanks for ya input.

@Spmcintyre58.
Read and comprehend the post before ya stick ya beak in.

"The last straw for me was my eldest arriving home this afternoon with a large welt above his buttocks and no shoes as the teacher struck him and confiscated them for not being "regulation."

With your wife's support, you could both go with your child and report this assault to the village police, who in some villages take this matter very seriously.

THIGV wrote:

My understanding, based on observation and not reading rules, is that there is only one person in each school who administers corporal punishment.  .

Nice post that made me look up the 'on the ground' situation over there.
I wonder if this is accurate

https://weareinvietnam.wordpress.com/2013/01/29/157/

If so, corporal punishment is illegal but still in common use so the chances of the police doing anything are limited.

Perhaps I could request no one post suggestions for violent solutions, please.

Thanks Ralph and Fred.
The cops in our neck of the woods are a little laid back.
They would have no interest in taking action against their drinking/cock fighting buddies.
They only get active if there's a dollar in breaking up an unsanctioned card playing ring, cock fight etc.
If I can take any action at all I feel it needs to be within the education system itself.

I hope your wife can do as good tap dance as my wife when necessary. Good luck.

ralphnhatrang wrote:

I hope your wife can do as good tap dance as my wife when necessary. Good luck.

Haha thanks.
Mine is more of a kick boxer than a tap dancer.
Things will get real interesting if they get defensive..........

Downsouth wrote:

Read and comprehend the post before ya stick ya beak in.

Whoa, that's harsh.
This is a member forum where you asked for comments.
We are all sticking our beaks in.

And, sorry about your kid.

gobot wrote:

Downsouth wrote:

Read and comprehend the post before ya stick ya beak in.

Whoa, that's harsh.
This is a member forum where you asked for comments.
We are all sticking our beaks in.

And, sorry about your kid.

Yes this is true, I am inviting comments but was his relevant to the post? Did he have anything useful to contribute? I think not. As was the posts under review at the top which I read before they were censored for their suggestions of violence.
Do you have anything relevant? If so, please feel free.
Thanks for empathy re my son btw.

If you want to quote the law.......

Corporal punishment is unlawful in schools under article 75 of the Education Law 2005, which states that teachers must not “disrespect the honour, dignity of learners, hurt or abuse them physically”.

There are a number of other legal provisions regarding the protection of students' honour and dignity, including Decree No. 163/2003/ND-CP regulating education in commune, ward and town, the Primary Universal Education Law, and Decree 338-HDBT 26/10/1991 on the implementation of the Primary Universal Education Law.

Downsouth wrote:

but was his relevant to the post? .

Possibly.
It could well have a bearing on this issue if the lad did something pretty bad on this occasion, perhaps has a record of violence in school, or maybe there are other very serious problems.
If it was just the shoes, I would agree a beating was unacceptable.

Regardless, your harsh retort at a poster who asked what could be a valid question was a little much, more so when you level very serious accusations at the school.
How does a drunk keep his job and is that normal or acceptable in Vietnam?

Downsouth wrote:

Not in the hands of a belligerent alcoholic, undereducated and incompetent teacher.

As a note, it's now impossible for you to name the school on this forum as that would constitute a possible defamation, something the forum takes very seriously.

First of all my sincere apology to who ever I've upset due to my reactive replies to what I felt were totally irrelevant responses to my post. Perhaps taking things just a little too personally due to it being my child.
But I was after all simply seeking some advice and not speculation as to my child's behaviour.
We had a few kids from his class here late today, including one of the other boys who also lost his shoes and my wife feels she has got to the bottom of what happened.
At the end of his last class my son asked for his shoes to be returned as he was concerned about what his mother would do about him losing them. When he was informed they were not going to be returned he stood his ground and demanded they be returned and as a result was struck across the back in what can only be described as an angry lash out by the teacher responsible. So if that was my kid behaving badly......well I can live with that.
One also must ask:
What if one or more of the kids who lost their shoes sustained an injury to their feet due to stepping on something bare footed whilst walking along the side of the road where bottles and other trash is freely disposed of around here? Who would be responsible? The child?
I wish to thank those who gave me some positive input.
As for defamation:
He wouldn't have a leg to stand on. What he is is common knowledge. Not that I would be naming schools or people on a public forum anyways. I can be a bit silly at times but not totally daft.
I have been a lurker more so than a contributor here and have gleaned a lot of useful information from well informed and intelligent posters and is the reason I turned to here for some advice. Perhaps now is a good time to return to the lurk.

Read your posts and talked to the Lady, we also live in the sticks down in the Delta, she tells me she has not seen this since she was a kid - back then teachers were allowed to use a stick to 'educate' the kids in the South - because all teachers were old Viet Cong or Northerners.  I would feel very sorry for the teacher that hit one of her kids with a stick - she was born in 1976, grew up under the re-education camps of the Southerners and isn't afraid of anyone.  Good luck and stay out of it, even she says let your wife handle it.   Chime in on our posts, you have been here a long time, experience is the best teacher of all.

Taking into consideration that corporal punishment is actually illegal here believe it or not. I am getting very much inclined to go through some kind of official channel to rectify what has been happening with my kids.

Assuming you are in Dong Thap, it seems there's a clear mandate from the provincial Education Dept. against violations of educational ethics in schools.

- Đồng Tháp Ensuring Safety in Education Institutions
(published in March 2017)

As for complaining, first you need to complain to the principal, then at the Huyen level and finally at the provincal level. I think your wife is the best person to deal with this.

On your part, you can try to make an appointment with a senior member in the Dong Thap Education Dept. to discuss this issue in detail and to seek his/her advice.
In fact you can write to the Director. His contact info is at the bottom of their home page.

I fully empathize with you and feel sorry for your kids.
I understand it's difficult to keep your emotions and rage under control in such circumstances .....  but please remember, your objective here is to somehow stop this from happening again .... rather than taking punitive actions or revenge against a certain teacher/school.
Such aggressive actions can have a negative impact on your child's education in the long run.

The teacher has no right taking away your kid shoe.  What a low life! Power trip on a kid, how pathetic. I hope your kids are doing fine. 

Last week my wife (who live in HCMC) told me that my step daughter got 2 big mark on her back.  She told me she texted the teacher and ask why that happen.  She was told that our daughter didn't do her homework.  I was so pissed I told my wife to call the teacher directly and tell her that is not acceptable and that we do not want anyone to hit our kid.  The teacher apologies and told my wife that it will not happen again.  I am not against spanking punishment, but I can't accept anyone else other then me or my wife to carry out that punishment.

seeing this post a little bit late. How is your child after the meeting with the school?
I'm not sure if your kid go to a private school or government school? I'm a Vietnamese and I also cant stand with that action. During my daughter kindergarten time which she went to a government school, never she got any bruise from her teacher. But it more likely happened if your kid go to a private school. Most of the teacher donot have teaching skill or went to any professional pre-school education.
The advise is to transfer your kid to any other government school. It a bit hard to get admit but it worth it. If you cant transfer to other school for any sensitive issue, you can bring that matter to Department of Education of the city. As an expat, with evident (photo, picture) or else, you sure will have the attention. fight for it but don't fight with the school directly.

Downsouth wrote:

@Spmcintyre58.
Read and comprehend the post before ya stick ya beak in.

"The last straw for me was my eldest arriving home this afternoon with a large welt above his buttocks and no shoes as the teacher struck him and confiscated them for not being "regulation."

Actually, I also think that his reply was brusque and lacked any useful input. The problem is some posters would just dip in and out of threads (and not bother fully comprehending).

The forum should encourage posters to read the full thread carefully before posting (including the original post). Too often I've seen posts where the user has simply read one or two posts then offered their overbearing opinion, without any remorse about the consequences.

Some of the more experienced users are guilty of this. see example here.

Yes, I'm aware this has to be raised via the forum feedback and comments (I remember reading this in a previous thread, but for the life of me its not something I've been able to intuitively access via the forum interface). So have decided to raise it and make you aware the possible causes why this happens. huzzah, I've just now managed to find a feedback link by doing a web search, perhaps someone can confirm if this is the link we must use to offer feedback, ideas and suggestions to improve the site:

https://www.expat.com/en/contact.html

By the way, to prevent users from posting without reading the thread: how about a picture of a moderator with a cane in hand (perhaps dressed in leather) and a user with hands on the white/black-board with bum sticking out. Beside the picture, you can say "Punishment for not reading/comprehending full thread completely". Although, I'm not sure if it will encourage posters to do this, especially the older ones, who will be seeking out the punishment. 

Thanks for the sound advice and kind words all.
Things seem to be sorted, well as sorted as can be at this point.
The principal was very apologetic, took a pic of the boy's back and assured my wife that some action will be taken and something of this nature won't happen again under his watch. As to what that will entail...........
As an aside, It would seem our dear boy, although not a misbehaving little imp, does tend to be a little frustrating as he seems to question things a little too much and his inherent stubborn and smart arse streak seems to annoy a few. He's no conformist, which is what's very much expected here. He refuses to be a clone, which I encourage, my fault on that one I fear.
Thanks for accommodating and tolerating my earlier ire. I'm not practiced at being a diplomatic kinda guy really. Ya don't have to be when ya spend most of ya life alone in the bush dealing with not much more than the rocks and regoliths.

sanooku wrote:

Downsouth wrote:

@Spmcintyre58.
Read and comprehend the post before ya stick ya beak in.

@Sanooku
Actually, I also think that his reply was brusque and lacked any useful input. The problem is some posters would just dip in and out of threads (and not bother fully comprehending).

I too have received good advice from this group..thank you, everyone.

I was not trying to be insulting  to the OP, and a few members understood .....

After reading the post, what I "comprehended" was I just read a tyraid about a teacher disciplining his child. I do not condone caining btw. I understand the parent was angry...I get that.
My point (maybe a little condensed for some) is the op was so angry and unfocused that whatever advice he may have been given, i feel would not be heeded and this may be a reoccurring scenario.  . I do not know why Downsouth was/is so upset, after reading name-calling, violent threats and insinuation?s....could he have violent anger issues.. could he be drunk..or just having a bad day? I don't know. This is why I chose not to reply and continue any non-sense.
As parents, we are responsible for our children, and their behavior is a reflection on our parenting.

Downsouth....if you truly feel this is abuse and not traditional VN discipline, then file a report with the school district.

p.s. Since VN is a communist country, do they allow home-schooling?

Spmcintyre58 wrote:

p.s. Since VN is a communist country, do they allow home-schooling?

I don't know if they allow home schooling but they certainly won't recognize it.  Remember that advancement in the VN system depends on passing standardized tests and the schools "teach the test."

After grade 5, Vietnam also tolerates students not being in school at all as about 30% nationally drop out then.  The percentage in the countryside is of course higher as 95% in HCMC continue into grade 6.  The constitution mandates that schooling must be free until grade 5 and tuition and fees jump with grade 6.