New Tourist overstay penalty from 8 Reais to 120 Reais ?!?!

JenJean wrote:

Thank you, the problem is they never told me how much it would be when I left. I am expecting the worse, but thats a lot of reais to carry on my for my two flights.

They didn't tell you how much you owe?  That seems strange,  and self-defeating on their part.  Are you sure you were fined at all?

Yes, I happened to leave on a day their "machine" was broken and he said he couldn't give me the piece of paper (invoice?) with the fine on it, but that I would be fined when I came back

Could I work this in my favour somehow..

I hope this discourages future visitors from breaking the law.

JenJean wrote:

Could I work this in my favour somehow..

In your place, I would certainly try.  I don't condone visa overstays in any way, but on the other hand, government agencies have an obligation to define the penalties they impose.
You should arrive with enough cash to pay the maximum fine as it was on the date you left Brazil, and see whether Passport Control tells you that you have to pay.  If they do, you certainly have the right to protest, in all honesty, that you were never told what the fine would be.

Hi all, quick question here (I'm from the US and also have an Italian passport). Backstory: In 2014 I entered Brazil with my US passport and overstayed my tourist visa by 5 months, ended up getting the 828R fine, was told I could either pay it now or when I come back (and that I couldn't come back for 6 months!). I was working (un-paid) on an art project and needed to be back in less than 6 months.

I ended up coming back 2 months later on the Italian passport, thinking I'd have no problem getting another full 90 days. Turns out the passports are connected; they swiped my Italian one and the picture from my US passport popped up in their system. Technically they should not have let me in, according to what they previously told me. Well, they did let me in but instead of giving me 90 days, they gave me 30 days. And I ended up overstaying that 30 day visa by 1 year. The crazy part is when I left after that 1 year, the officer didn't say anything, just stamped my Italian passport and let me go scot-free (either he didn't notice or he just didn't want to deal with it).

Then 1 year later I had to return to Brazil again. I was terrified to use the Italian passport in case they'd notice I overstayed by 1 year and wasn't penalized in any way. I was able to get a work visa (in my US passport) from a friend who has a Brazilian company and ended up getting in/leaving Brazil with no problem whatsoever.

I'm going back to Brazil in 2 weeks (I definitely won't be overstaying this time).. My question is: can anything bad happen if I enter with my Italian passport and they notice I overstayed by 1 year (3 years ago) or is it a safer bet to use my US passport? The reason I ask is because I just renewed my US passport so I'd have to get (and pay) for a new tourist visa, which I'd rather not do unless absolutely necessary. Thanks for all comments and suggestions.

I overstayed my visa before the new law. Oct. 2016 to Oct. 2018. I was informed I would be fined 880 reals under the Old Law not the 10,000. Because My overstay was before the New Law. When I left in Oct. 2018 I was fined the 10,000 not the 880. I was misinformed. When I return I will pay the 10,000. My Brazilian fiance is worth the fine. Because of her I would pay anything.  A person in this forum PMed me and said since my overstay was before the New Law it would only be 880.  He also said he wished it would be the 10,000 ...

CraigF   3 weeks ago 
Well, the law changed but you broke the law before it changed. So you still pay the old fine system. Go to federal police and tell them you overstayed and want to pay. They will give you a stern lecture and give you the bill. Take bill to lottery and pay. It should be the R$800. Or you can just leave and the airport customs officials will give you the bill and stamp you with an overstay. You can pay when you return next time.

Stop breaking the law. I wish they would charge you the R$10.000

So guys,
I've been reading this topic and as far as I understood, if you overstay let's say 1 day and go to the federal police, they are going to give you a fine of 100 reais and let you pay/stay for more 60 days?
Can anyone confirm that?

It depends on the agreement between Brazil and the traveler's country.
If the traveler has a 90 day visa and visitors from his/her country are allowed a maximum of 180 days in every 365, the visa may be extended.   However, if the agreement for that country is 90 days in every 180, the traveler will probably be required to leave.
Visa limits for each country are published by the Foreign Ministry, and available online.

You are right! I did tell you to stop breaking the law and hope they fine you to the fullest extent!

kaletek wrote:

I overstayed my visa before the new law. Oct. 2016 to Oct. 2018. I was informed I would be fined 880 reals under the Old Law not the 10,000. Because My overstay was before the New Law. When I left in Oct. 2018 I was fined the 10,000 not the 880. I was misinformed. When I return I will pay the 10,000. My Brazilian fiance is worth the fine. Because of her I would pay anything.  A person in this forum PMed me and said since my overstay was before the New Law it would only be 880.  He also said he wished it would be the 10,000 ...

CraigF   3 weeks ago 
Well, the law changed but you broke the law before it changed. So you still pay the old fine system. Go to federal police and tell them you overstayed and want to pay. They will give you a stern lecture and give you the bill. Take bill to lottery and pay. It should be the R$800. Or you can just leave and the airport customs officials will give you the bill and stamp you with an overstay. You can pay when you return next time.

Stop breaking the law. I wish they would charge you the R$10.000

Hi everyone,

I left Brazil on 3 March 2018. I had to annul my stable union with my ex partner and it all got a bit messy and I ended up overstaying 17 days. So I have $1.700 reais to pay on return. I will be going back to Brazil for research purposes for four weeks in May this year.

My main concern is that none of the available flights arrive during banking hours. There are flights arriving at 7.45pm, the closest to banking hours (I believe they open at 10am) I could find was 4.50am. How important is it to arrive during banking hours? If I arrive at 4.50am will this work? I will be arriving to Rio, where there is an HSBC caixa eletronica - I have an HSBC UK account, so can I use this? If I arrive outside of banking hours, will they throw me on the next flight home?

Thanks

Hi,

I arrived in Brazil 3 weeks ago with an overstay of 8 days, I arrived in Brazil at around 10pm expecting to pay the overstay fine of 800 reais.

But the immigration official stamped my passport, smiled and just let me through. No mention of an overstay and no fine.

So don't worry too much you will probably get away with it.

Let us know how you get on

IKexplorer

caseirojoe,

Please refer to report # 584 & 585 last 12 Feb 2019 at the title "IMPORTANT NEW CHANGES FOR THOSE APPLYING FOR PERMANENT VISAS." This might ease your mind about your situation.

robal

No need to search -- go here and scroll down:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 1&p=15

Thank you for your help guys. That certainly makes things slightly clearer.

Yesterday I came across the page of the policia federal that allows you to create a GRU, usually for paying taxes https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/gru2/gru?nac=1&rec=2

However they now have the code 140414 which relates to overstaying. So I filled everything with the correct amount and it created a Banco do Brasil slip for me to pay the correct amount. There is a Banco do Brasil here in London. In theory I pay the fine here and take the comprovante to the airport when I arrive. Hopefully I shouldn't even need it because my fine will be cleared on the system.

Does anyone have experience paying overstay fines outside of Brazil? To my eye it seems as this might work but of course with Brazil it's never that simple.

Thanks

caiserojoe,

Unfortunately my friend, there was a girl we have tried to help from Europe with the same problem you have now. I even helped her fill up the GRU form online but never gave a feed back of what happened afterwards.

However, you should clarify the matter with Banco do Brasil in London upon payment; It´s government, being Latin America  trying to be credible; trying to save "face" as a latin culture; I´m ALMOST SURE you´ll rise above this dilemma.

Good luckl!

robal

>HERE IS YOUR ANSWER
>In my case, they didn't give a **** !

So I overstayed 45 days early 2018 and upon exit got the paper with the fine to be paid upon re-entry. On 16 feb 2019 I re-entered, put on my friendly face, and the only question I got asked was where I was going to spend carnaval. Not a word about fines. Upon exit yesterday, I got asked if the fine was dealt with when I entered. I said yes. She gave me my passport. Bem-vindos ao Brasil!!!

Meanwhile I did call the Policia Federal in Guarulhos and they confirmed that I could choose at the customs to have my overstayed days deduced from my next allowed 90 days AS LONG AS the overstay was less than 90 days. No idea if they  even did that at customs at all.

Hey guys, similar situation here, been in Brazil around 2 years illegal as my father lives here and I have a Brazilian girlfriend. Planning to leave soon, i know to expect the maximum R €10000 fine. Initially i expected the ban to be 6 months, however recently I have heard of them throwing out 5 year mans for similar cases. Anybody have any info on whether this is the case or not?

@daniel Nash, Its not a ban, you just have to wait for the time to reset. I remember mine was just 3 months and the lady showed me the date on the computer when i can come back.

For paying the fine at Reentry, honestly, it depends on the customs officer you meet and how they feel that day. Some people pay and some are passed through with a Welcome to Brazil smile

I have paid 8 reais per day in 2015, for 10 days overstay so 80 reais total. They gave me a payment confirmation (small piece of paper) and I was asked to keep it.

I put it inside my passport and had to show the proof of payment upon re entry in 2016 and 2017.

Now I am going back for 2 weeks, starting tomorrow. The proof of payment is gone.
Are they going to make me pay again?

And if so, 8 reais per day or 120 reais per day?
I think they have deliberately refused to register my payment, knowing that they can charge me again some day

I´m sure they have their own record. It was just an extra insurance in case a new agent screws up. But, if they fine you again it would revert back to the old charge...

robal

Hi all,

I am currently in Brazil and married my Brazilian wife 3 months ago. Since January 3rd, 2019 I have overstayed. I'm scheduled to leave on April 20th (overstaying 92 days). I first entered Brazil on June 14th, 2014. My question is, when I leave the country on April 20th, how long do I have to wait before I can renter Brazil again?

Hi Tom1080,

My understanding is that your allowance re-sets on the date you first entered Brazil, in your case 14th June 2014 which means your allowance for this year would re-set on 14th June 2019.

Of course you will have to pay a large fine for the overstay.

Hope this helps

Ikex

Just a follow up with regards to my experience in april 2019.
I had an old "multa" from 2015. I paid 10x 8 reais at the time. I was given a receipt and I was asked to keep it. Which I did, until I lost it last year in 2018.

Upon arrival in 2019, I was curious as to what would happen. At my entry, the police officer said "wait a minute". Left her chair with my passport, and came back 10 minutes later. The waiting made quite nervous. But when she came back she gave me back my passport and said "obrigada".

The exact same thing happened when I left. I asked if they took 10 minutes because of the old penalty. They said yes indeed, but that I was free to continue because I had entered multiple times after that fee, and therefore they assumed that it was already paid.

In the end, I think that everything depends on the officers involved. This was in São Paulo where officers have always been friendly to me. I left from Rio one time and I will never do that again. The police there were extremely rude and unwilling to give me any information

GringoLouco wrote:

Just a follow up with regards to my experience in april 2019.
I had an old "multa" from 2015. I paid 10x 8 reais at the time. I was given a receipt and I was asked to keep it. Which I did, until I lost it last year in 2018.

Upon arrival in 2019, I was curious as to what would happen. At my entry, the police officer said "wait a minute". Left her chair with my passport, and came back 10 minutes later. The waiting made quite nervous. But when she came back she gave me back my passport and said "obrigada".

The exact same thing happened when I left. I asked if they took 10 minutes because of the old penalty. They said yes indeed, but that I was free to continue because I had entered multiple times after that fee, and therefore they assumed that it was already paid.

In the end, I think that everything depends on the officers involved. This was in São Paulo where officers have always been friendly to me. I left from Rio one time and I will never do that again. The police there were extremely rude and unwilling to give me any information

Good info for everyone. Thanks for the update...

I received a 10k fine when I left brazil last year because of overstaying - they gave the paperwork to my brazilian GF which she has lost.   when I left brazil I left with an emergency travel doc as my car was broken into whilst we were traveling and bags taken including one with my passport.   the emergency passport issued my the Britsh embassy in sao paulo was only valid for the journey back to London and it was taken from me by immigration here.    I have a new passport now and would like to go back to Brazil this year because of my gf - if I enter via a land border do you think the fine will show up and of course I have a new passport?   yes I know I shouldnt have overstayed but when you fall in love it jjust happens and you do stupid things.   Im not asking for judgement only advice from anyone who has done this before.  thank you <3

An update on myself, I just got back to the UK and was issued the 10,000 fine like you were. I've been in contact this week with the federal and they said I don't have any chance of the fine being taken away from me or reduced (even despite legally getting married during my 90 days tourist visa and my wife later being diagnosed with a bone disease) because I knew what I was doing by overstaying they said. Plus, they always have all information saved on the systems. I don't think any reason could get us out of it, we just need to pay the fine and move forward. I made the same decision as you, did it for love. You can't fault yourself for that, I'm planning on paying the fine and going back on a family 1 year visa so I don't have to wait 6 months to reenter. In the end it will always been worth it, no matter what the price is.

Hope all goes well for you and ur girlfriend!

Thanks for the reply Tom.   very best of luck to you also.

I really think it depends on who you meet or if you come back into Brazil with another type of visa. I received the same fine last year, and flew back into Brazil with USD in hand to make payment, but i now had a long term visa.

I was greeted by a friendly Customs Agent and he looked into the computer, said good luck on your studies and enjoy Brazil. Even when i went to the Policia Federal to register my new Visa, they did not even bring up the issue and processed all my documents and were very friendly.

I wanted to ask the officer why they did not require payment, but felt its best to leave that topic alone.

Best of luck to you when you come back, you might meet a Friendly Customs Agent that lets you go through without an issue.

Wow, I wish for the same! May I ask how much ur fine was?

My Fine was the Maximum.

Damn you got off good! My fingers are crossed for the same!

Hi all, I got to Brazil today, I thought I'd share my experience with you as it will be useful for some.

As I mentioned above, I had a 1700 reais fine to pay upon arrival in Brazil. I was travelling to Rio and due to arrive at around 5am and was worried about not being able to pay due to being outside banking hours.

When I got to passport control the PF scanned my passport, asked me to wait a minute, then came back from the office and asked me to come with him. He asked if I'd received a fine when leaving last time. I said yes. He asked me to sit on the sofa next to the office. About 10 mins later he came out, gave my passport with a boleto to some guy from Lufthansa (the airline i flew with), and he took me to a bureau de change downstairs that presumably is open 24h (it was about 6am by that time as I tried to delay arriving to immigration as much as possible to get as close to banking hours as I could). They processed the boleto, I paid, got given a comprovante, went back to the office and they fiddled around with my passport for 5 mins, I got it stamped as I would otherwise have done by a PF officer, and off I went.

After paying I did ask about the part in Lei de imigracao about reducing the number of days you are given by the number of days you overstayed. One PF said I could come back and argue that to the federal police at the airport within 5 days. Then another said that part had not been 'normatizada' and was thus irrelevant.

In summary, don't be put off if your flight is arriving at an odd time. In Rio (a previous post mentioned Sao Paulo again) this was resolved by going to a casa de cambio.  I have had previous bads experiences with Rio PF and others have commented on their poor attitude but to be honest this time I found them perfectly helpful and friendly. Overall the whole process took about 30 mins.

Hope this helps some of you out there.

Hey! Just a quick question, maybe someone will be able to help me but this is a really difficult situation I'm in (and I am partly to blame by not researching how this whole extension stuff works prior to travelling in much depth).

In 2018 (entry November 2017 departure May2018) I was deemed to have overstayed my tourist visa (technically not a visa as I'm British and as you all are probably aware we don't need visas to enter), but it was somewhat controversial. After three months I went to get an extension from the PF, and when I arrived he literally asked me no questions, looked at my passport and said he would log my extension onto the system and that I didn't need a stamp as British citizens are entitled to 180 days. I then thought it was all dealt with and didn't think about it again as they seemed so sure, my Portuguese is good so I was able to communicate, I also went there with my Brazilian girlfriend who is obviously fluent haha.
However, when I left 91 days later (thinking I had just overstayed one day which was no big deal), they gave me a whopping 10,000 reais fine and wouldn't let me protest my innocence, all they told me to do was appeal it from the UK. Then, when I arrived back in the UK I emailed the email address on the fine form that they gave me, and they told me that when I re-enter I'll have a chance to defend myself if I tell them what happened. My girlfriends mum who is Brazilian went all the way to the immigration centre at Belo Horizonte airport and they literally said the same thing, only different bits alongside it, like deducting days and so on. But how can I appeal anything if I have zero proof that I even went there without them looking back through CCTV, it's just my word against theirs. I know that I was extremely silly not to research the laws in more depth but I just trusted what they told me, as they are supposed to be knowledgeable about these sorts of things and at the time I wasn't really a seasoned traveller outside of the EU. I'm not sure if it's because they don't have a large amount of international tourism to Belo Horizonte and they just didn't understand how it worked? But they clearly didn't put anything on the system as otherwise I wouldn't have received the fine.
Do you lot think that I have any chance of re-entering without paying the fine? It's a serious amount of money to pay when I wasn't even the one who made the error, and even when I tried to contact the specific PF station in Belo Horizonte they essentially brushed it off and said I should just talk to them when I re-enter ... A little bit risky though if you ask me, as I have had no reassurance that they'll listen. I know I've been very naive, but it just doesn't seem fair as I really did try to adhere to the law and they don't seem to care one bit , either that or its just too much hassle for them to want to deal with.

I hope someone can help and please don't say I'm stupid for not fully researching the laws and what they needed to do when I got my passport extended as I already know 😂 what's done is done, I just expected them to do the right thing and if the PF tell you everything is fine and sorted, I for one had no reason at the time to doubt them. From my entry and departure dates you can clearly see I've tried to adhere to the rules (bar the one day miscalculation haha), I just hope they believe me if I am to plead my innocence. Thanks!

Hello

Per my experience with this Multa, the letter you sign says you have 10 days to appeal this fine with the PF. I made that mistake and passed the deadline and there was nothing i could do.

If its passed this deadline and you have not appealed the fine to have a review or hearing, then you probably need to check with an immigration lawyer and see if there is anything you can do as maybe one in your area has connections with the PF at BH

Thanks for your reply.

Ah that's so frustrating, as I did appeal the decision but they didn't reply to me or say anything, I went as far as going to the Brazilian embassy in London but they said they do not have the authority to intervene in those affairs.

I think that may be my only option , either that or I pay the fine .. but it seems quite unfair as they should've told me the correct information when I went there for the extension and they were way off the mark it seems. Like you said though previously, I've read a lot of stories about people just being waved through with not even a word about a pending fine ... Very bizarre.

Did you have a "red stamp" on passport when you left? If so you will have issues.
PF is getting ridged on this with all the things in S.A., Middle East, Africa and Latin America going on. New laws also. Consulates have not updated web pages and trying to figure things out and PF/MJ have final say.
I understand your feelings, but with traveling to a foreign country it is always good to know the laws.

Wilksee,
I think that you have a reasonable chance of just having to pay the fine for your one day of actual overstay; you should arrive with enough money to pay the whole thing, though, just in case.
Are you familiar with the Friendly Brontosaurus concept?  It definitely applies in a case like this, and you're the Friendly Brontosaurus.   Totally chill, totally smiling, ready to just stay there all day, you explain that you had the extension, that you tried to appeal, that you followed every instruction that the PF gave you, both in Brazil and at home, and that you were assured that everything would be resolved fairly here.  Don't argue, don't criticize (at most, maybe somebody made a "mistake"), keep smiling, and keep explaining.   If someone say that EU citizens don't get extensions, explain that the UK and Brazil have a side deal (they do).
And don't beat yourself up anymore about missing the change in the laws.  The new laws went into effect in November 2017 - as you arrived.  Just bad luck.  Hope you have some good luck this time.

I didn't get any red stamp, I just got the regular exit stamp when I went through immigration and then he handed me the paperwork that explained the fine and how much I owed. The guy at customs seemed pretty chilled out about it, he did tell me how to appeal and everything .. he just said he couldn't really do anything as he has to give me the fine otherwise he isn't doing his job which is fair enough. Ah yeah and its completely fair, I understand you should follow the rules but it really was difficult considering they told me all was well and let me walk out of the station😕

Hahaha yes I am familiar with that concept! I did consider just turning up and explaining it as you said, and I think perhaps if they sympathise and I don't lose my cool or anything they may give me the benefit of the doubt! I've got emails that have been saved to show that I did try to appeal my case, I have my girlfriends family that can of course also testify for me as well. I think your right, I'll go there prepared to pay it but just make my case. I know it wasn't necessarily my fault, and with the law changing just as I arrived it also made things even more confusing! But perhaps all of these things will work in my favour ... But only time will tell. It's just confusing as Brazilians can stay in the uk for six months without any extension, perhaps the PF officers believed that was the case with British citizens in Brazil too? Who knows! Thanks for your replies though! I'll try not to be too hard on myself .. I'll keep you all updated as to what transpires when I return next month .. hopefully a good dose of overly polite Britishness will go a long way 😂