What do Cambodian woman expect from their western friend?

PeterCambo: very interesting post...a little harsh and cynical but based on your real experiences so helpful to read.

For myself, I think maybe the Western idea of "love" and all the "soul mate" crap i brought with me to Cambodia is the problem that prevents me from setting up a realistic and practical relationship based on simple trust rather than romantic BS.

Lucky for me, I found a Lady I can trust after 30 months of letting myself be scammed.  Smart...practical....thinks "love" is BS....has had 2 Western boyfriends already so she knows what's up and is not going to let me play her....a massage girl who just grabbed me off the street one day in the Night Market....thank you Buddha! 

Great ideas and feelings (and writing, to boot) from both Joe and Pedro.  Hats off ! ! !

No Noise wrote:

Great ideas and feelings (and writing, to boot) from both Joe and Pedro.  Hats off ! ! !

wmnorell, too.

Hi wnmorell,

Well done and good luck ........... you seem to know what you're doing. Great!

Regards, Pedro.

Thank you No Noise. Pedro.

You're always welcome, sage!

On his YouTube channel about retiring in Thailand, JC  points out the value of getting an occasional massage from a legitimate therapist to address the basic human need for physical affection/touch. Men in the US are taught to suppress this need, or see it as just "manly" sex drive, but touch is one of our five senses that tells us we're alive, and getting   used to being physically rejected by the people around you can become very unhealthy and lead to self-destructive behavior: addiction problems in my case.

The young Cambodian woman whose family owns my building is a massage therapist in the Night Market. She has a baby boy, who she was breast feeding until recently (boy is he unhappy to be cut off now) and a husband who ran off with his new girlfriend.

Anyway, i was really unhappy about letting myself be scammed by my fake "girlfriend" for so long, so I went to get a massage. She was really professional, and a little uncomfortable that I was being too friendly because we're neighbors....but suddenly, in the middle of the massage I felt that everything was going to be okay from now on....I wasn't really a lonely, screwed up old man no woman would want to be with...and I could stop letting myself be played for an ATM by this girl who refused to spend any time with me if I tried harder to stop doing it....

A woman who makes her living giving legit massages is a special person. She's also already outside the confines of Cambodia's very conservative and physically inhibited culture. And she probably speaks some English and is comfortable with Western men (some of us are real assholes.)

Personally, I found having a massage was a real "beneficial trauma" that changed how I felt about myself in a positive way. Being lonely and depressed just made me vulnerable to letting myself get scammed , which is one of my addiction problems I'm struggling with.

Good luck to you WM hope happier days ahead, it will come thier are many fine non goldigging cambodian women who would adore you, as you sound like a kind man, you just have not met the right one it will come , most Cambodian women are kind honest, and loyal, don't forget , that's most, not all, like everywhere?

No Noise wrote:

Great ideas and feelings (and writing, to boot) from both Joe and Pedro.  Hats off ! ! !

james1963, I'd say don't jump into anything too soon, take your time. Ending a relationship and trying to evict a partner that has moved in with you will likely really bring on the heartache on both sides.

Any emotional baggage you have (after 3 marriages) is certainly going to be put to the test in a relationship in a foreign culture between two people that have little to relate to each other and many unwritten rules the other isn't aware of.

Good luck!

Hi all.have been reading all of your comments..I lived  phnom penh for 2 years in 2014..2015.  I lived with my Cambodian lady..we wear very happy and I gave her $200 every two weeks..I went to province to meet the family and they were very nice..we visited several times and stayed over night..she asked me to buy her a moto..I said no as I did not want her having accident..one morning she got up and had shower and then told me she no longer loved me as not buy her bike and had not taken her to Australia
.I quickly told her what she could do and so that was that.. i have not been in cambodia for 12 months but going back next feb..i have thought about my  decision and now would probably do it different..

Quite an interesting risk/reward strategy, eh? You gave her $400 a month just for being your companion (which for many females with just the standard school education remains a dream salary) and she just decides to up the ante like this and goes for broke.

Makes you wonder if it's the rumor that we western guys are so easy with the financial handouts or the reality (meaning she calculated she'd win either way even if you rejected her demand as she could easily find another willing sponsor).

I too wonder , mr dome I think you know the chances of her “finding another westerner, are slim to none as there are far more women who would never leave you based on 400$ a month , but stranger things have happened , just doesn't sound right , with a nice income for her , I'm just surprised she left!

Based on me following these types of stories since I discovered Stickman's website in the late 90's, I can't say I truly am. We just never get to hear their side of the story ; )  and get a glimpse into their reasoning.

If I had to venture a guess she wanted to punish you and if it took that she'd no longer get $400 every month, she'd still go ahead with it, never mind that by holding out, she could have easily saved up for a motorbike long term. There's just not much long term thinking involved here.

We can throw in some face saving as well, I guess, although we Western guys rarely ever advance to the intermediary level when it comes to the social grace of face saving & krieng jai and all that in Asia.

I find it extremely interesting to read this reactions. I want to leave to cambodia too and live there. I try to read as much as I can to learn about daily life there and about relationships. I have been in Cambodia and Asia more often and I like it so much. But I have read so many strange stories like that from catchy. Why did she leave? What were her thoughts? I know that so many girls want a western man and it is not easy to find a nice one available.
I found a beautiful, very very nice woman online and I am chatting with her. She seems to be perfect and for what I know now, she is 1000% sure honest. But I want to understand her more. Luckily she writes english quite well and can express her feelings and thoughts. She is very honest too and does not only write what I like to hear. Since the start of this topic I learned a lot and I think I know what to expect now a little.
The only thing I don't read anywhere and I have asked on Khmer440, but got a lot of rubbish answers: Is there a big diffence in kissing with asian/khmer girls? I dont mean hookers and bar girls but more conservative Khmer woman. I know eskimos kiss with thier noses and I think that Khmer used to kiss different in earlier times, but how is it now? I could not find any info about this on the internet. I know that Khmer don't express feelings in public but I would know more about this from all you guys having relationships with these women.

james1963 (if that's the year you were born, we're almost the same age, BTW), there are individual approaches to kissing but there isn't an "Asian kiss".  However, I do believe there are subtle country by country differences, for example, while PDA's are frowned upon everywhere in the region, Cambodia to me seems like the most prude country in SE Asia, where anything approaching sexuality is almost taboo. Which is the opposite of how it used to be, at least until the 15th century and probably longer in certain areas: "Among the Khmer (excluding vast numbers of hill-tribe slaves), both men and women wore their hair tied up in a knot. All were naked to the waist with a cloth around the hips. In public they wore a larger cloth over the smaller one. All were barefoot." Some backpackers have been trying to bring that back and then some by being naked to the toes even  but it's not going over too well.

Coming back to the issue of money for a moment, I really don't like being seen as an ATM and being taken advantage of or believe in an unwritten law that says I have to be Mr. Open Wallet to the whole family. Of course, you do what you can if there is a real occasional need. Don't even get me started on the dowry, thankfully as 50+ old farts can no longer get married to a Cambodian citizen, gives us all a pass.

As for me, I was in a long distance relationship with a Vietnamese and here the big issue and ultimate failure point was communication, specifically the lack of. Some people tend to be quiet, sure but when you feel you are being shut out emotionally time and again, that's not a good feeling.

james1963 wrote:

IIs there a big diffence in kissing with asian/khmer girls? I dont mean hookers and bar girls but more conservative Khmer woman. I know eskimos kiss with thier noses and I think that Khmer used to kiss different in earlier times, but how is it now? I could not find any info about this on the internet. I know that Khmer don't express feelings in public but I would know more about this from all you guys having relationships with these women.

James.

In various countries in SE Asia girls like to "sniff kiss" your cheek, neck and hair (if present ).
They are shy with kissing lips, not to speak about French kissing.
But times change and the young generation is getting used to all of that, also because of social media and not least tube videos.

So if you meet a Cambodian girl and she will become your girlfriend, it depends on how far she is adapting to the new style of showing affection to each other.
Don't force her if she is shy, try to understand her and have patience. Slowly she will come closer to your wishes and eventually it will all be ok.

Just as a tip: never kiss a female friend on the lips, this is reserved for boyfriends and husbands. The sniffing on cheek and specially on the neck makes them feel good, so a better alternative.

I personally like to give a "bear hug" as sign of affection towards female friends. They need time to get used to that, but eventually they like it (because I'm such a nice guy ).

Joe

Update: 2 more of my friends have bitten the dust because of their nairvity with their young Cambodian wives/girlfriends. I've now lost count.
Some people just won't accept it. Some people think they'll find ‘true' love. Forget it and wake up; they want your money and they'll get it before you know what's going on. 2 months, 6 months, 2 years, 10 years - they'll wait; they'll get it. Lose the vanity, ego and keep it in your pants unless you want a hooker.
You don't pay hookers for sex. You pay them to go. Some people never learn.
“I'm looking for a ‘nice' girl around 25/30 years my junior - tickles me. Wake up.

petercambo wrote:

Update: 2 more of my friends have bitten the dust because of their nairvity with their young Cambodian wives/girlfriends. I've now lost count.
Some people just won't accept it. Some people think they'll find ‘true' love. Forget it and wake up; they want your money and they'll get it before you know what's going on. 2 months, 6 months, 2 years, 10 years - they'll wait; they'll get it. Lose the vanity, ego and keep it in your pants unless you want a hooker.
You don't pay hookers for sex. You pay them to go. Some people never learn.
“I'm looking for a ‘nice' girl around 25/30 years my junior - tickles me. Wake up.

Petercambo, you still don't get it. Yes, many relationships go down the drain. But even more relationships make it. It seems you have only friends that fail. I can say from my friends plus people I know that the large majority has a wonderful relationship in which both partners are happy.

Your last sentence is far below the truth. Age is not a problem between a relatively well-off foreigner and a Khmer girl that has been left with a baby and no money, by her Khmer husband. She is fed up with Khmer men and hopes to find a good foreigner with whom she can have a good life. Love is not involved, it is a partnership and both partners contribute to the success of it. The foreigner provides the means, the girl provides her youth and care for her partner, a mutual beneficial relationship.

As you think "western", I just googled and in Europe the divorce rate is over 50%, with Belgium at the top with 70%. That means in well-developed countries possibly 7 out of 10 relationships fail.....

Be positive, the sun shines and it's nice warm, the nature is beautiful and so are the girls....

Cheers

Joe

I believe Joe (thx for the info on the kissing part),

I met a very humble and nice girl on internet and I although I have been extremely careful and suspicious, I trust this girl completely after all the talks we had and all the info and pictures she shared.
Her father left her mother with 3 little kids and no income. The kids were raised in an orphanage and the mother has been struggling to survive. This girl never ever wants to deal with a Khmer man, as she has seen this happening a lot. All she wants is a decent, responsible man, who loves her and stay with her. She will love him so much for that.
I believe this story is true. She did not want tell me this, I had to ask, ask and ask.
This is a pretty conservative girl and now she has a job and supports her mother and little cousin to pay for his school. This family is extremely poor, but happy and they never ask for anything.
No, I don't believe in fairytale, and I know how people can change in time. There is no garantee. I have 54 years of life experience and have traveled a lot and lived in 3 different countries.. I know what can happen. But I believe girls/woman like this are genuine.

I have found most khmer women to be extremely gracious, and extremely loyal, funny story I have dated Southeast Asian women in Vietnam, Thailand and Cambodia, and to me. The Khmer women are the most loyal, and of course many if not most women in these other countries are also loyal and genuine,  but the common thread with them all is this, I always ask why not date a thai, or Vietnamese, or a Khmer man , and the answer is always the same (thai, Vietnamese or Khmer) they DRINK THEY SMOKE THEY GAMBLE, every time they say this I still laugh when they say that , the main thing is women all over the world are similar in what they want and need , the saying is totally true “they are all sisters “

Dear Gilbert,

Thx! We are now 4 months further and I have still the same great contact with my online GF. We are in contact now on a daily basis for more than half a year now and she never disappoints me, she is great. Our only point of discussion is that she would love to have a baby someday and I certainly don't want that anymore and can not anymore. I am shooting blanks But I told her from the beginning and she accepted that.
I plan to move to SR in the next 6 months and I cant wait! First have to sell my house here.
There are quite some guys here whom I like to meet when I come over! I will contact you all when the time is right!

And about the topic: I think now what Cambodian woman expect from their western boyfriend: Love, respect, loyalty, commitment, reliability and a chance of a beter life for them and their family!
Marriage is not the main goal for them, at least not for my girlfriend and her friends.

ok so you get scrood by any asian women ive lived in thialand for 10 years ..combodia yo think is bad come to thialand haha..thing is there or nice girls here i merry one she has her own buisness and makes just as much as i do in my retirement pension so its not about money for here it does help with things cause most thai are in debt lol ..the diffrence is you buy your wife here..the family ask that you pay for there daughter..meaning what ever price they ask example..for a young wife maybe 18-25 about 5 gold yes gold and $50000 that goes to the parents,so can be alot of money so if you thinking about finding a thai women you need to read alot of things and understand there culture..so becarefull what asia women you want they all have bad sides and good sides

I may remind you that this is the Cambodia forum, not the Thailand forum.

There is a Thailand forum too, here the link:

https://www.expat.com/en/destination/asia/thailand/

Cheers.

Joe
Cambodia expert
Expat.com team

I want to know that I am 63 years old from Atlanta usa and can I live with 36 years old girlfriend who lives in Siem Reing and has one son forever or I will be in trouble.
Thanks

Your question is a little vague, but maybe this can help a little. More than anything they need financial support. Given the average worker earns between $80 and $150 a month, they dont ask for much.
I have a very attractive girlfriend, 38, (I am 68) who has 2 small children from her previous marriage to a Cambodian man. I give her $250 a month, in return she acts like a wife  - sleeps with me whenever I want, cooks, cleans my place, goes with me to bars and restaurants.
She says she loves me but we will never really know. She says she does, and thats good enough for me.
Forever? Just keep renewing your retirement visa...

Hi
I dont see its a problem I am 63 also from Denmark - stil wait my first trip to Cambida - but was in THaialnd many times-   and had attractive GFs .  on 30 you  or younger.  it might not be real love but  if you are happy and she feel happy  why not ? its only western women who are jealouxe - live life to the fullest and good luck to you !
cheers
bruno

Hi that sounds interesting -  I think I must go to Cambia sones possible - but have no idea where to find the good girls..  not in bars. .  I been to Thailand many times Phils and Vietnam  - but has not found anything interesting
but to have young sweet beautfull GF for taking care of. .  why not ?   where can we fidn that in the west these days ? no where

yes and same like you . thais are some of the worst and greeday .  I am waiting for Cambodia to open  - and wait to see the " differences" there, ,

Joe. this is a very good fairytale  and it seems like you found the wright
good luck to you -
yes most asian women dont want their own country men .   they are useless .    and we behave like gentlemen .     its where we are winning..

Apparently, you need a younger woman you can have sexually whenever you want and also cooks for you and acts "as a wife" in exchange for money.  In my vision that is prostitution, though its true that most western marriages work that way...

Don't be so quick to judge. It's an arrangement that benefits both parties. The lady gets financial assistance and I get companionship. Prostitution is simply the act of sex for money, and sure sex is on the agenda but not the reason for the relationship. Is this not the way most Western marriages work? We both help each other with what we need in our lives.Works for me.

Anyone who needs to start their post by proclaiming to not be a sexpat, sex tourist, or pervert surely is one. Come on man...70  years old guy moving to a third world SE Asian country and wants a 30s year old girlfriend.

Oh yea, you are DEFINITELY not a sex tourist.

Just stop pretending to be something you are not. A sex tourist is a sex tourist. You can bring in as many outside excuses you wish, but it doesn't change the facts.

@james1963  look there are a lot of good hearted Cambodian women that would love to be with a white guy and want to get married to a white guy for several Reasons. 1 they do not have to worry about getting cheated on. Which is a very common practice of Khmer men. 2 they don't have to worry about stds with a white guy because white men who are married don't cheat. 3 they don't have to worry about getting abused or assaulted. Because in Cambodia women are treated like dogs.

@JoeKhmer you are right

@JoeKhmer, truly enjoyed reading your response and gauging your insights.

A Cambodian female wants a stable, loving, real, safe, relationship with a foreigner, but over all else to be looked after heart and soul, once a foreigner understands that list of requirements, he has a chance of having the same.

@JoeKhmer Well said. I agree 100%. Having lived in Cambodia a short time I have only a couple of female friends and the women I see where I purchase my coffee and have lunch at my favourite Khmer restaurants.

Although there is little spoken communication (I'm working on my Khmer) there is an understanding due to shared respect and my obvious love for the Khmer people and their culture.

They also find it very entertaining that I am having a go at learning their language. Again an unspoken appreciation from them for me having a go.

It's not that difficult. Show people kindness and respect and you will receive it in return.