Understanding Vietnamese girls

You are really lowballing that figure 10 Million Dong is only $500 USD, try 50-100 times that price...........you might mean 10,000,000,000 dong??

tunnelrat69 wrote:

You are really lowballing that figure 10 Million Dong is only $500 USD, try 50-100 times that price...........you might mean 10,000,000,000 dong??

Due to reserve time, I receive roughly 1/4 of an E-6's pay or roughly USD$ 1,000.00 per month for my Army 'retirement.' When I die and if I have a surviving spouse, my spouse would get roughly half of that pay for the rest of her life. That is currently roughly 10-11 Million Dong. The spouse would also qualify for tricare.

The rest of my retirement income is essentially not inheritable

Interesting to note a lot of people on here talk about “Bar Girls” and all the red flags associated with them. It would also be interesting to hear from anyone who has had a very good relationship with one, someone who has not been scammed or just used as an ATM. I'm sure there are a few girls out there that after money only but at the same time I would tend to think that there are some who are genuine.

Wadey wrote:

Interesting to note a lot of people on here talk about “Bar Girls” and all the red flags associated with them. It would also be interesting to hear from anyone who has had a very good relationship with one, someone who has not been scammed or just used as an ATM. I'm sure there are a few girls out there that after money only but at the same time I would tend to think that there are some who are genuine.

You do realise there are "bar girls" and there are "hostesses." One does the job, and the other usually just talks and entertains customers.

The crime is in the motive; not the means...

colinoscapee wrote:

Wadey wrote:

Interesting to note a lot of people on here talk about “Bar Girls” and all the red flags associated with them. It would also be interesting to hear from anyone who has had a very good relationship with one, someone who has not been scammed or just used as an ATM. I'm sure there are a few girls out there that after money only but at the same time I would tend to think that there are some who are genuine.

You do realise there are "bar girls" and there are "hostesses." One does the job, and the other usually just talks and entertains customers.

Thanks for that, but not one to frequent Bars what ones are what?

I can assure you there are good down to earth good gals here. And the are even reluctant to ask for any money. But there are oodles that just see the register ringing. And it is not just with soulmates. I think more than any other thing here I have to be on guard constantly about money

colinoscapee wrote:

Wadey wrote:

Interesting to note a lot of people on here talk about “Bar Girls” and all the red flags associated with them. It would also be interesting to hear from anyone who has had a very good relationship with one, someone who has not been scammed or just used as an ATM. I'm sure there are a few girls out there that after money only but at the same time I would tend to think that there are some who are genuine.

You do realize there are "bar girls" and there are "hostesses." One does the job, and the other usually just talks and entertains customers.

Their are also hostesses who do nothing but entertain the customer with polite and entertaining conversation and other honorable entertainment, such as, the Geisha in Japan and similar entertainers in other countries. A Japanese friend took me to a restaurant that had actual Geisha entertainers. So, I have been their and seen that.

Geisha - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisha
Geisha (芸者) geiko (芸子), or geigi (芸妓) are Japanese women who entertain through performing the ancient traditions of art, dance and singing, and are ...

As to the "hostess," this can vary from essentially like a Geisha to a prostitute depending on which  place that you choose to go.

Former hostess in a Japanese bar who now is a manager? 

OF COURSE they say the girls get fired for sleeping with customers--prostitution is officially illegal here.

She's a higher-end bar girl who deals with (so I've heard) a clientele who tend to be physically abusive. You're just the current sucker.

Run, Forest, RUN!

Errm, and you are how old?

No flaming intended, but stuff like some of the questions by the OP might be trolling.

Go get a Facebook. See what she is up to. Aren't you interested? And you want the anonymous forum users to interpret her actions?

I found girls very open and communicative, without them or me dreaming of hitting on each other. Does this make sense?

Relax,  KruChris...   The higher the emotion; the lower the integrity

..and the vocal minority have difficulty connecting-the-dots...     

Here's a tip that should work in any country. Imagine the object of your desire grew up in the US or Canada or Australia or wherever you're from. Would they be out of your league there? I'd say there is some wiggle room being an expat, where maybe she'd be the kind of woman who you'd really have to put your best foot forward on the first date otherwise she'd probably ditch you easily, but in Asia or South America or wherever she may not rate herself so highly and think you guys are a good match. But don't kid yourself if you're a 4 chasing an 8, there's probably a catch.

Maybe the catch is you take care of her and her family and she'll try to love you forever, but I firmly believe women around the world are all the same. Looks is first, money is second (first for some) and then personality and compatibility. Oh, I forgot social status. That is huge, and it can make up (somewhat) for a looks gap.

I'm still relatively young, but just from observation, I think relationships based entirely on money are inherently unstable. There needs to be some modicum of attraction or at least status so she looks up to you as a man. If all you are is a cash register, I'm not sure that can happen. Anyone else watch 90 day fiancee? It's sad what older women and to a lesser extent older men will put up with in a good looking partner.

Couldn't have said it better myself...     

Very well said ! .Good one

@NYSTEACHER We watch 90 day fiancé before the 90 days, really amazing to see some of the couples as you mentioned.  With respect to your post, based on my experience in Asia, looks and status are extremely important in the beginning, the attraction is what gets the attention and eventually a conversation.   However, it is possible to be average and get an attractive mate, just takes all the right moves.  Girls from good families in VN are looking for love, a lifetime partner who will love them, respect them, care for them, be a great husband and father etc.  Looks come 2nd.  The problem, you need to find a way to meet her if you are not in her league when it comes to looks.

The average salary in Vietnam is low, so I suspect looks are far less important here in a marriage, at least in theory. I am told cheating is very common (by Vietnamese people not expats), if that is true, marrying for money over attraction could be part of the reason.

In the 90 days couples, even the men/women clearly out for the green card alone are unable to claim complete attraction to their partner. "She's 55% attractive" "Tarik is a bit chubby" stuff like that.

I live a bit outside of Ho Chi Minh, and although I wouldn't say it's common, it isn't unusual to see guys in their 20s and 30s who are about 5'2 and 90 pounds, maybe 100 pounds tops. I'm curious if these guys can get married just on the strength of a decent job. In the west, they'd have an extremely difficult time of it.

Wadey wrote:

I....It would also be interesting to hear from anyone who has had a very good relationship with one, someone who has not been scammed or just used as an ATM. I'm sure there are a few girls out there that after money only but at the same time I would tend to think that there are some who are genuine.

you will have to search a very long time

colinoscapee wrote:

Wadey wrote:

Interesting to note a lot of people on here talk about “Bar Girls” and all the red flags associated with them. It would also be interesting to hear from anyone who has had a very good relationship with one, someone who has not been scammed or just used as an ATM. I'm sure there are a few girls out there that after money only but at the same time I would tend to think that there are some who are genuine.

You do realise there are "bar girls" and there are "hostesses." One does the job, and the other usually just talks and entertains customers.

Whilst on red flag is showing, they are hostess ....

70 years old wrote:

"I think 70yearold got his bride from a different era. Mine has never offered me so much as a glass of water when I am in their home, let alone a meal. I must say I would never do it again."

Vietnam then was a very different time and place during the war. While the situation is very different, I became the Family Patriarch in 1975 when her Grandmother died and I had the responsibility to guide and nurture her family thrust upon me. I found that task both difficult and rewarding especially during those times when I was not present in Vietnam.

Then having a "War Buddy" for a wife is also a very different situation. I know what she will do if "incoming" starts to hit. I've always trusted her to cover my "6." The "new crop" of women here seem to be almost Vietnamese speaking Americans

Sam,

You know I must disagree. I think Steven Marshall has described the situation pretty well. As you know, my experience could not be more different than Diazo's.
Also as I compare the different generations, Bac and Trinh have far more in common than Trinh has with most western women of this generation.

I wasn't able to find Steven Marshall's reply. As to Bac and Trinh, we do agree. But, I do think that Trinh and Bac don't have that much in common with most women.

To kind of explain my point, most people including women tend to think in tactical terms. Bac and Trinh seem to think more in strategic terms.

I'm the OP. Not trolling. It's been about 1.5 years and I can say that I had a great time.

Actually since then I've also met other wonderful ladies (some also bar hostesses!). None asked me for money or anything like that. I offer to pay for taxis and stuff like that but they refuse to accept my money. I do get to pay for dinner, but this is something I'd do outside of Vietnam too.

I'm of Asian ethnicity and in my early 30s so perhaps that's why my experience has been different.

You gonna find out after, not before. Loads of people had a USD 2000 freebie

viktri wrote:

I'm the OP. Not trolling. It's been about 1.5 years and I can say that I had a great time.

"All's well that ends well."-Wm. Shakespeare

Wxx3 wrote:

70 years old wrote:

[b]"I

Sam,

You know I must disagree. I think Steven Marshall has described the situation pretty well. As you know, my experience could not be more different than Diazo's.
Also as I compare the different generations, Bac and Trinh have far more in common than Trinh has with most western women of this generation.

Same here, my experiences have been what one would say is traditional and my wife is a Millennial.  All of her friends and co-workers, including those married and not married, have the characteristics I have discussed before which are nothing remotely even close to a western woman. 

I think you guys are just not meeting the right women and there are thousands of them.  Maybe you do not understand that women are being judged in public and the home how well they care for their husband/boyfriend.  i can give tons of examples, but I have never cooked in my in laws home and rarely in our home.  If you are in your gf's home and she is not offering a drink or food, I just cannot even comprehend it because that would be a big no no in my in laws and extended families homes.  Give 1 example, we were celebrating TET with family and extended family in the countryside.  I spent the entire day sitting at tables with only men.  The women never came out of the home.  My wife came to check on me and I asked her why she would not sit down.  She explained to me why she could not and went back into the house.    i could write a book, but wish you the best of luck and keep looking.

FYI - please remember that good VN women are loyal and do these things out of respect and love and not the western stereotypes alot of misinformed people think.

I've been dating Vietnamese women for 25 years and definitely agree with vndreamer. Viet women are really sweet and are very much different that western women. They do take care of their men and their family.
There are other remarkable differences as well. Viet women are the communicators and the men seem to hold back and allow the women handle the politics and do the negotiating. And they are REALLY good at doing that. Vietnamese culture knows that the women have advanced verbal and social skills and let them use those abilities to great benefit.
I am definitely convinced they are really, really special.

vndreamer wrote:

I think you guys are just not meeting the right women and there are thousands of them.

vndreamer wrote:

Give 1 example, we were celebrating TET with family and extended family in the countryside.  I spent the entire day sitting at tables with only men.  The women never came out of the home.  My wife came to check on me and I asked her why she would not sit down.  She explained to me why she could not and went back into the house.    i could write a book, but wish you the best of luck and keep looking.

I find rituals and customs should not simply be seen per se as a traditional highlight in the oh so wonderful Vietnamese culture.
My wife's family is extremely traditional, but my wife is less. She does everything just to make her parents happy.
In modern times some customs will disappear and that is good so with some customs.

I respect most of the customs I am confronted with. And there are a lot of them. Above all, I respect all religious rituals, although I see that my wife would not celebrate most of them without her mother.

However, I do not respect such macho rituals as the men's table or the 120dB sounding (as they are used on every event).
Unknowingly I was seated at the men's table the first time and for 2 hours I was surrounded by 8 chain-smoking men who intoxicating themselves by beer and screaming each other (the louder the more beer).
They wanted to fill me with beer, although they knew that we were travelling by car and my wife was expecting a child.
When I say I don't want to drink anymore they laugh at you.
Even if you say that are full and nothing more can eat they laugh at you. For me this has less to do with tradition than with lower intelligence (as usual with machos).
Next time I told my wife that I wouldn't be sitting at the men's table anymore. Since then I eat together with the women or there are mixed tables.

I also worry about our child who will soon see the light of day. I do not want to expose our child stubbornly to all traditions and customs and hope that later she can decide for himself how to deal with it.
What I certainly don't want is for our child to attend when relatives talk in rittuals to the dead or when people smoke in the invironment of our daughter (my wife's father even smokes when he has toddlers in his arms).
Even in a country with so many traditions and customs, I think progress should not be slowed down and dusty rituals should not be renounced (my wife will not suffer in a small room at parent's home like a prisoner after birth for one month).

vndreamer wrote:

FYI - please remember that good VN women are loyal and do these things out of respect and love and not the western stereotypes alot of misinformed people think.

Jim-Minh wrote:

Viet women are the communicators and the men seem to hold back and allow the women handle the politics and do the negotiating. And they are REALLY good at doing that. Vietnamese culture knows that the women have advanced verbal and social skills and let them use those abilities to great benefit.
I am definitely convinced they are really, really special.

It is really sad to see Asian women being oppressed by Asian men (or at least pretending, in order to make the man not look too stupid), although I see in many Asian countries that most women are the ones who handle the whole family matters and the politics and do the negotiating.

That is the Asian culture. I lived in Japan, far more advanced then VN , and it was the same way. I doubt it will ever change. Boys are venerated as kings at birth, and they kill the female fetus. Until they can get beyond that type of thinking I doubt it will change much.

And try to get the ladies tubes tied or a vesectomy here!!!

Diazo wrote:

That is the Asian culture. I lived in Japan, far more advanced then VN , and it was the same way. I doubt it will ever change. Boys are venerated as kings at birth, and they kill the female fetus. Until they can get beyond that type of thinking I doubt it will change much.

First of all how do you define one culture as being "more advanced."  Is it material wealth?  Is it similarity to your own culture?  I will leave it at that.

With respect to off kilter sex ratios at birth, the worst is Lichtenstein with 1.26 which is way higher than China with 1.15.   Vietnam lags most other Asian nations with a 1.12 sex ratio although Japan's ratio is a very low 1.06.  Numbers seem to vary by years but the relative position of countries does not seem to change much.  The natural ratio appears to be between 1.02 and 1.06.  Based on these numbers, should we assume that Lichtenstein is less"advanced" than Vietnam?  As you put it, that is the European culture.  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne … w-8176140/

THIGV wrote:

Diazo wrote:

That is the Asian culture. I lived in Japan, far more advanced then VN , and it was the same way. I doubt it will ever change. Boys are venerated as kings at birth, and they kill the female fetus. Until they can get beyond that type of thinking I doubt it will change much.

First of all how do you define one culture as being "more advanced."  Is it material wealth?  Is it similarity to your own culture?  I will leave it at that.

With respect to off kilter sex ratios at birth, the worst is Lichtenstein with 1.26 which is way higher than China with 1.15.   Vietnam lags most other Asian nations with a 1.12 sex ratio although Japan's ratio is a very low 1.06.  Numbers seem to vary by years but the relative position of countries does not seem to change much.  The natural ratio appears to be between 1.02 and 1.06.  Based on these numbers, should we assume that Lichtenstein is less"advanced" than Vietnam?  As you put it, that is the European culture.  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne … w-8176140/

The report also notes, however, that the high value for Lichtenstein could also be a data collection error.

Lichtenstein is very similar to Switzerland.  And there I have never noticed that male babies are preferred.

Yes with a small population, random effects may be greater.  However, I still stand by my assertion that one should not ascribe moral or immoral positions to entire countries.  During most of history, China was objectively "more advanced" than Europe.  They only fell behind in the late half of the Qing Dynasty.  Current conditions with respect to sex ratio in China may be temporary and in fact are returning to a more normal situation with the end of the "one child" policy.  Japan apparently has already returned to a normal ratio.  Don't be too quick to condemn.

I do not know how the train jumped off the rails to birth rates from prefered gender or government edicts. And as for culture one could probably make an endless circular arguement about what is and what is not culture. The word has so many meaning, from music, food, morale values and on-and-on. If you want to go down the  material holdings route the wealthy have a much different food and music culture than say the poor. Vastly  different in the same two categories. But it seems hard for me to believe someone can step off the plane in many, if not every country and find a huge cultural difference.

Had to take a breather and find out just what the topic was to be. Oh yes, understanding VNese women.

Diazo wrote:

I do not know how the train jumped off the rails to birth rates from prefered gender or government edicts.

I would say that it jumped when you said "they kill the female fetus."

And.....? You mean you were not aware they did? Or did you think a non-births factored into the birth ratio? I still do not get your correlation even if I stray way afield. We were speaking of the cultural differences in how a boy/man is regarded as opposed to girls/women. Perhaps I took you off the tracks with the killing of an unborn girl. I mentioned that only to show how strongly they prefer boys/men. How one can extrapolate death to BIRTH ratios worldwide I do not know. But the birth ratios you sited are exciting and informative.

" But the birth ratios you sited are exciting and informative"

         ..confirmation bias is exciting and informative too...     

THIGV wrote:

Yes with a small population, random effects may be greater.  However, I still stand by my assertion that one should not ascribe moral or immoral positions to entire countries.  During most of history, China was objectively "more advanced" than Europe.  They only fell behind in the late half of the Qing Dynasty.  Current conditions with respect to sex ratio in China may be temporary and in fact are returning to a more normal situation with the end of the "one child" policy.  Japan apparently has already returned to a normal ratio.  Don't be too quick to condemn.

I only supported what Diazo said, because I think it is absurd that the Asians prefer boys, although in my opinion the females have more to offer.
Perhaps the Asian countries would not have fallen behind the European if they had bet more on women in the past. 

That was the point I was trying to make. And and as a sidebar, I would not give 50 cents for a boat load of the beer drinking, gambeling abusive men. The women are the backbone. This struck me when I first set foot in VN. At the time I did not understand. But after moving here WOW. They sure carry the water in a  disproportionate way. Which kind of gets back to the topic of the thread.