Exploring a Move

Carolina. Itl go out at random times, usually it's restored in about 1-3 hours.

Justpeachyy wrote:

Carolina. Itl go out at random times, usually it's restored in about 1-3 hours.

Weird that you are having issues so often in Carolina. I used to live in Villa Fontana Carolina many eons ago and we rarely lost power, I guess the equipment is old now.

I am interested in hearing from other Expats as to their town and how often they lose electricity and for how long on average.

We live in Hatillo,  power goes off about once  a month, generally for only a short time.   Typically weather related.

in Old San Juan it goes out regularly, usually for brief periods. It seems to be largely construction-related, either through the repair of deterioating equipment, overloading circuits at peak use times (often blamed on electric pirates in La Perla) or by virtue of a remodeling project that cut a supply line somewhere..

I don't know much about what tax attorneys do, but I would not move for the tax advantages alone. To me, it's an added plus.

I bought an apartment in Old Town overlooking the ocean. I rent it to vacationers when I'm not there. I absolutely love it, and if I had the resources I would buy another.

The history, culture, natural beauty and general love of life will always be part of Puerto Rico, regardless of the economy. It is for those reasons I'm moving there. And eventually, the economy will pick up, too. Puerto Rico is full of potential.

Igustaf,

Given that I intend to continue in business for quite some time to come and that taxes are by far the biggest single item of my budget (and about exceed all of my other living expenses combined), they are front & center in my calculations.  Are they the sole reason I'm looking at a move to PR?  No.  Are they a “make or break” component to the move?  Oh yes.  Rightly so in my case.

First, just about everyone cares about costs, it's not just me.  For example, I'd bet that the vast majority of people here would at least reconsider living in PR if their cost of living were to double.  Likewise, if the cost of living in PR were halved, I'd bet that more people would be interested in or able to live there.  I am no different, cost of living matters to me.

Second, we can live just about anywhere we please since my business is quite mobile.  There are so many excellent options….other beautiful places also full of really neat people.  Vina del Mar?  Barcelona?  Berlin?  Anywhere in Florida?  Months on a cruise ship ala Super Mario on Royal Caribbean?  All of the above on a nomadic basis?  When it comes to “interesting”, “beautiful” or “full of warm people”, PR is not unique.  But PR is close to unique as to how low the cost of living (via Act 20) would be for us.  Because that factor is unique among my criteria, it becomes a key decision point for PR.

If we do not choose PR, we will probably home-base in FL (no state income tax makes me happy, warm weather, beaches and some Latin culture make the wife happy) and spend months on end in various locales, PR and especially OSJ included.  If we choose PR….we'll home base there instead & still travel all over.

We have thought of doing exactly what you have done in OSJ – either buying or leasing long-term (rents are low compared to what buildings cost) and Air BNB'ing it out when we are not in residence.  We'd spend a month here and a month there in residence.

We are blessed with options.  The uniqueness of Act 20 and the very large savings it entails for us makes it a key factor in our decision to live/not live in PR.  Some may view it as crass….but I'd bet that in other ways money greatly influences their own decisions, even if they try to downplay it.  Money is life and life is money.  For example, if you have "enough" (a subjective concept if ever there was one), then you have bought the rest of your life.  If you do not have "enough", then the parts of your life spent earning money probably do not belong to you.

As to PR's potential:  I agree that it has much potential.  I hope that it shall not end up meriting a witticism often ascribed to Brazil….”Brazil is the country of tomorrow – and always shall be”.  The risk & probability of exactly that outcome  for PR must be borne in mind.

I love Puerto Rico. I choose to live here because of the environment, the individual friendships that are dear to me. I am Puerto Rican. My personal attributes and my political views, my religious beliefs are my own. Generalized labels are offensive.  Financial considerations are important when selecting a place to live, but it should not be the driving force in life.    My friends here in Puerto Rico range from the extremely wealthy to those with extremely limited income.  No two are alike.  The benefits of this forum is being able to learn from  personal, individual experiences.

Frogrock,

I agree with much of what you say but not all of it.  No surprise there, all of us can say the same about everyone else.

I disagree as to generalizations and tend to disdain the modern trend of "being offended".  Generalizations strike me as useful if accurate, balanced, and understood to be general and not applicable in every instance.  We can start with a simple and useful one:  Most Puerto Ricans speak Spanish.

I mentioned elsewhere the financial considerations and why in my personal case they are a key factor in our decision.  Your view is understandable - you have a love of PR and connections there that outweigh other factors.  I do not have such connections in PR.  Given that Puerto Ricans (and for that matter expats in PR) strike me as pretty warm & open (naughty generalization?), I'd bet that making friends would be fairly easy.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the benefits of the forum.  You are one the people who provides good information, I certainly benefit from that.

Another thing to consider, and believe me, I did a lot of research on it, was the ease and security of purchasing and owning property.

I investigated Dominican Republic, Virgin Islands, Panama, Mexico, Belize, Florida and a few other spots -- even Cuba.   The good thing about PR is that US property laws apply. That mkes purchasing a property in PR a secure investment. The same is true of USVI, but the cost of living is higher, resources lower, and I found very few good properties available for a decent price.

The historic district of Santa Domingo was attractive, but the interest rates on loans is outrageous. In Mexico, holding title is risky. Somebody's great-great descendent can suddenly appear with a Spanish land grant in hand and you're screwed. In fact, much of Latin America has that issue.

The good thing about Belize is that English is the official language and taking title is under English law and secure and the literacy rate on one of the highest in Central America. But it is a very new country with some serious class and resources issues to work out. It is also flat, so nothing will stop a hurricane from destroying the whole country, as has happened. I'd give it a few more years to work out the kinks..

I think the climate in PR is much more agreeable than Florida. And unless you live far from the beach (inland experiences some real temp extremes) or less-than-desireable area, like Pensacola, home prices are right up there. Key West, for example, is prohibitive, and somebody has to die before something comes on the market.

Florida might have no state tax, but it gets you in other ways. Many principalities have special sales and use taxes on everything from parking to consumer goods. Everyone has to pay a special tax when crossing to the key district, regardless of what you intend to do there. Most of the highways are toll roads, so taking an outting from one town to another will cost you. Even as a visitor, getting a Sun Pass is a must.

The in-your-face Christian conservatism of Florida was not to my taste. I think I counted 30 churches along the 5 miles stretch of road from central Pensacola to the city limits, and at least 50 right-to-life billboards along the freeway as we crossed the Alabama/Florida state line to Pensacola.

For those sent PM's, thank you.  I will respond today and tomorrow.  I look forward to meeting you.

Present itinerary:

June 5 - 7:  Luquillo
June 7 - 9:  Patillas.  We are interested in Palmas del Mar - it seems nice, and a good place for expat employees with families. 
June 9 - 12:  Undecided, probably SW corner
June 12 - 15:  Isabela
June 15 - 19:  Condado

We mean to explore nearby areas & attractions.  The family is very psyched.

yes  - I agree.  We looked at possibly  buying a retirement home in Belize, Costa Rica and Mexico.  While each had qualities and aspects which we liked, it was the fact that PR is part of the USA and has a legal system that works (sorta).    So, we decided that the security of the US legal system and the climate & beach house option was the best way for us to go.

After living in Peru for a couple of years it was my destination. When I returned to seriously look everything went wrong from being robbed to an earthquake. Fires that shut down trains and transportation. Soroche, altitude sickness.
Then I realized that this would not work when I I am in my older years. I discovered  PR sort of by accident as I never considered it and since I now have an online business it was a no brainer  and along with other factors mentioned on this site pr works beautifully for my needs.

MimiEv,

Just curious, what is a Rosie Perez attitude? What does she have to do with any of this?

Just as some people on this forum do not care for my attitude and will avoid me (to which I say “fair enough”), I likewise do not care for certain attitudes and will avoid them.  That is especially true if those attitudes cost me money or increase my risk.  If I perceive such attitudes to be dominant in a given place, odds increase that I'll not call that place home.

My interaction over the last 30 years or so with a few dozen Puerto Ricans in the US (almost all of whom are Stateside-Ricans and not actually from the island) left me consistently surprised as to how many of them reminded me so very much of Rosie – both her politics and her attitude, neither of which I care for.  If you watch the last few minutes of “Do the Right Thing” (to name just one example) that grating tone, movement & attitude strike me as commonplace among Stateside Ricans.  Ditto the consistently leftist politics.  I do not care for either and find the latter generally harmful & personally expensive.  Others will of course disagree.

In fairness to the Stateside Ricans, I found them to be very Latin where passion, warmth, hospitality, and “joy of life” are concerned.  For me, these traits weigh on the credit side of the scale.

I have met spent significant time with few island-grown Puerto Ricans.  I mean to remedy that lack.  I will be curious to see how culturally similar or dissimilar they are in comparison to their Stateside cousins.

I was wondering about the Rosie Perez comment, too. Maybe you should have picked someone without talent, ambition and intelligence to make your point.

I'm not Puerto Rican, but if I were, I would find your characterization of "stateside" Puerto Ricans a bit stereotypic and offensive. I suggest you rethink your attitude if you decide to move to PR, as Puerto Ricans everywhere consider themselves sisters and brothers regardless of where they reside.

The good news is, when you live in Puerto Rico, passionate beliefs  that seem to pit Statesiders against one another (and against the world) become less of a driving life force.  There is less  MY BELIEFS ARE RIGHT  and I WILL PROVE IT TO YOU.  Democrats versus Republicans, Clinton or Trump, You hate me because I am (fill in the blank). THEY (whoever THEY are) are wrong and I am right.
I was working in the Pulguero and two men were discussing some VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE.  My co-worker said to me in Spanish, "I don't give a flying ****. "

I would agree with Frog. I've found the islanders generally open, tolerant, easy-going and accepting. From his posts, I'm not sure Steuern would fit in with that.

Yeah but then PR dosent really deal with Republican Vs Democrat and issues that affect the US.  It's mostly those who want statehood and those who want independence that's the issue here and it's PNP Vs PPD. Different place different issues. It all depends on who you meet to form your opinion.

Good point, peach. Puerto Ricans want the best that independence and statehood have to offer - can't blame them. As a colony, they can get the best OR the worst. They've experienced both.

Most Puerto Ricans I've talked to would like it when it was the best, but they realize it wasn't and never could be sustainable, and would therefore prefer statehood over independence. They seem to be realistic enough to know that independence, as glorious as it sounds, also would not be sustainable, and subject to even more corruption.

For about 16 years I have been interacting with Puerto Ricans mostly outside of San Juan area,  I make a point of stopping by most little colmados mostly on the outskirts of town and country side. I get a reading on how accepted I am by acknowledgement, respect, etc. On very rare occasions I will get the cold treatment.  I certainly do not take it personally as they cannot know me they just see me. In one bar I stood with a dollar in my hand and I was ignored. I watch the server serve others but not even give me a glance. I would make eye contact with other patrons  sort of asking whats up. Finally another patron speaks up and says to the server, "don't you want this guys money"? In perfect English the server asks, " what do you want?"In perfect Spanish I said "una Medallia, por favor".  I try not to be antagonistic but  I will still stop by this colmado on occasion and just maybe he will see me as a person and not a concept based on bias.

I suspected that is what you meant and I agree completely with lgustaf's reply.  I'm not sure how you can separate her tone, movement and attitude from the passion and culture you so adore of the Puerto Rican people.  I do not know you but based on what I've read, I  also wonder how happy you will be here.  I will refrain from commenting further...

Peace

lgustaf wrote:

Good point, peach. Puerto Ricans want the best that independence and statehood have to offer - can't blame them. As a colony, they can get the best OR the worst. They've experienced both.

Most Puerto Ricans I've talked to would like it when it was the best, but they realize it wasn't and never could be sustainable, and would therefore prefer statehood over independence. They seem to be realistic enough to know that independence, as glorious as it sounds, also would not be sustainable, and subject to even more corruption.

Make sure you vote for your preference come June 11. That is the place to make your opinion count. Some of us would like to vote but we are not resident, so it is out of the question. I have expressed my preference  previously, but it does not count since I can not vote.

I can't vote, either, Rey. I have an apartment in VSJ, but don't live there long enough during the year yet to get voting rights.

I do talk to people as much as I can when I'm there, and am very interested in the political and economic future of PR, as it will be my permanent home.

lgustaf wrote:

I can't vote, either, Rey. I have an apartment in VSJ, but don't live there long enough during the year yet to get voting rights.

I do talk to people as much as I can when I'm there, and am very interested in the political and econoic future of PR, as it will be my permanent home.

Like you said, it will be your home, so get involved as soon as you can. No point letting others decide for you, specially me, given that my politics are very different from yours.

Once I sell here in MA, I will be full In and involved. Will likely sign up with one of the parties and really get involved.

Justpeachyy wrote:

It's mostly those who want statehood and those who want independence that's the issue here and it's PNP Vs PPD.

Ehm, PPD is not for independence, that's the PIP with around 5% of the voters backing that option. PPD wants "enhanced commonwealth" even though there's no constitutional  basis for that type of status.

I've said this before, since the status issue cannot be resolved here on the island because it's congress in DC that decides, it would be better if the PR politicians would push the issue to the background and start working on getting the economy up and running.

Mrkpytn wrote:

In one bar I stood with a dollar in my hand and I was ignored.

Happened to many others (and me) as well I'm afraid.
You look like a gringo, so you must be a gringo. Once they get to know you and they find out you (try to) speak Spanish things change.

In my experience this is not typical for Puerto Rico, it happened to me in a couple of local watering holes and stores in Germany, too. Heck even in Amsterdam where I was born and raised if I went to a pub in another neighborhood I was initially ignored on occasion as well.

As you know, Mark, an open mind changes a lot

Gary wrote:

I've said this before, since the status issue cannot be resolved here on the island because it's congress in DC that decides, it would be better if the PR politicians would push the issue to the background and start working on getting the economy up and running.

Agreed, we waited 119 years or so, we can get the economy straight then vote on it 3-4 years from now, I do not understand the rush. Besides I would prefer to be a resident when it is time to vote.

Mrkpytn wrote:

In one bar I stood with a dollar in my hand and I was ignored.

I ran into that in Rincon, they would ignore me and serve all the non natives. They would even avoid eye contact. Lovely to be ignored in my own country.

So it does goes both ways.

Rey,

We had the same experience Rey, for that reason (among others) Rincon isn't our favorite place to visit either.  It really kind of ruined part of the day for us. We were also astounded to see a couple of businesses owners who did not speak any Spanish and did not have one staff member who spoke it either.

Glad it is not just me, it feels like reverse discrimination to me.

I don't think it's discrimination one way or the other. I simply think some are just afraid of venturing too far from their comfort zones.

For all I heard about the French being exclusive and arrogant, I found them warm and accommodating as soon as I even TRIED to speak the broken French I know.I spent three weeks in Paris and couldn't have felt more welcomed.

I am now working to learn Spanish on my own -- working on it a little bit each day -- and although I'll likely never acheive fluency, even after I move, I hope I can at least speak it well enough to break down the culture barrier, or at least put a chip in it.

It's all about attitude.

lgustaf wrote:

I don't think it's discrimination one way or the other. I simply think some are just afraid of venturing too far from their comfort zones.

For all I heard about the French being exclusive and arrogant, I found them warm and accommodating as soon as I even TRIED to speak the broken French I know.I spent three weeks in Paris and couldn't have felt more welcomed.

I am now working to learn Spanish on my own -- working on it a little bit each day -- and although I'll likely never acheive fluency, even after I move, I hope I can at least speak it well enough to break down the culture barrier, or at least put a chip in it.

It's all about attitude.

You hit it right on the head, it is one's attitude as how we react to the world around us.

I keep hearing that rincon is gringo headquarters, which I have been aware of. We spent a day there, albeit brief and primarily with a puerto rican couple. I am just wondering if it is so isolated we aren't even going to be able to practice our Spanish?

There are plenty of locals that speak Spanish, but almost all restaurants, stores, and markets employ bilingual workers. Some only speak English.

May be a little hard to practice your Spanish, but if you frequent business away from the town you will have plenty of opportunities.

Just stay stateside. ***

mandarjones wrote:

Just stay stateside. ***

I am so confused by this person,

nokkieny wrote:

mandarjones wrote:

Just stay stateside. ***

I am so confused by this person,

Unfortunately he's been banned, so now there is no way that he can explain himself, and no way for you to understand him.

nokkieny wrote:

mandarjones wrote:

Just stay stateside. ***

I am so confused by this person,

As was I -- at first.

WarnerW wrote:

nokkieny wrote:

mandarjones wrote:

Just stay stateside. ***

I am so confused by this person,

Unfortunately he's been banned, so now there is no way that he can explain himself, and no way for you to understand him.

He will likely be back May 31st.

First 30 days reporting from Fajardo and we've yet to have a power outage.  The water went out once for a couple of hours but that was it. knock on wood.

Edit:  I just realized I'm commenting on a much earlier part of the thread.

This thread has gone so many ways.. I do recall it's inception yet did not keep up with up it.
So if my comment does not fit, excuse me please.

My wife, who first brought me to Canada when we were dating, and I knowing nothing of the language or culture, went and loved the place.
I found that just the effort of learning was enough to bring a smile upon the person I dealt with, Okay, a few not so much, but them 'we' no longer dealt with.. Nor did others.

I have no fear of not knowing the language or culture when visiting. For what I learned is those that welcome will work with you.
It's easy to recognize a good person. From both sides. Just be that.
Those that don't, well don't patronize. They'll learn with time..

I love Canada! Great food, great people! There's just a whole lot of cold and snow there... LOL
I'm certain I will find the same in PR.

As the song goes, "You just have to look around".