Immigrants from Venezuela

Ok, interesting simple.........In my experience in Panama and Colombia the  Venezulanos typically outwork the locals.....Now Colombians work pretty good too compared to the typical Panas........But Venezulanos seem to have a work ethic....Yes they can be vocal.....My Pangrngo amigo has a Venez novia with an oil well in her back yard and she comes to Panama City all the time on huge buying sprees.....She hates Panameños and has no respect or tolerance for them......and is very vocal about it.....My amigo has to chill her out so she doesnt cause a riot.........So yes they can be demanding and bitchy.....but they have a work ethic or at least used to have.....I see them working good all over Colombia, Ecuador and Panama and Peru..........But hey, theres always a bad apple in the bunch...........How big of a deal are you gonna make out of 1 single bad apple?

dumluk wrote:

Ok, interesting simple.........In my experience in Panama and Colombia the  Venezulanos typically outwork the locals.....Now Colombians work pretty good too compared to the typical Panas........But Venezulanos seem to have a work ethic....Yes they can be vocal.....My Pangrngo amigo has a Venez novia with an oil well in her back yard and she comes to Panama City all the time on huge buying sprees.....She hates Panameños and has no respect or tolerance for them......and is very vocal about it.....My amigo has to chill her out so she doesnt cause a riot.........So yes they can be demanding and bitchy.....but they have a work ethic or at least used to have.....I see them working good all over Colombia, Ecuador and Panama and Peru..........But hey, theres always a bad apple in the bunch...........How big of a deal are you gonna make out of 1 single bad apple?

My neighbors are Venezuelans and good people. Very friendly, and they go out of their way to be neighborly. For instance, being conversational, giving me Venezuelan food, etc. They, however, concede that young Venezuelans are doing bad things like robbing people om the streets.

As for, “How big of a deal are you gonna make out of 1 single bad apple?” I attribute such comment to your ignorance because you don't live here. The murder in Ibarra was not the first. There was similar one in Ambato in which a Venezuelan stabbed a taxi driver to death repeatedly 28 times. It's on social media.

There is cautious optimism in Quito by both Venezuelans and Ecuadorians. A lot of ojalá that Venezuela is on the cusp of change, and I'm deliberately avoiding political comments as expat.com does not allow it. The once proudful Venezuelans clearly want to return home if circumstances change  there. So, lets wait and see and hope (ojalá) that things in fact do change.

The Colombians echo your sentiments - as do all of us who would like to see the Venezuelan people have the chance to become prosperous and free once again in a representative government.

And Osage, when was the last time the Venezulanos actually did have a free and representative govt? I would be very interested to know......Not to say that Im not in favor of running this current pendejo out of town.........But really, when was the last good one...? At least chaTves in the beginning did try and uplift the huge % of impoverished..........But ironically, who ends up with all the money? The hija de Chavez.....worth something like $6 billion.........Personally, if I was Prez, (which aint gonna happen) I would sequester her wealth which by all accounts is invested in Wall St. (just like Ortegas).......It doesnt belong to her...........Shes got billions becuz her father stole it from the Venez people..........I really wonder about life and God when I find myself in agreement with people like Elliot Abrams and John Bolton and even Trumpf for that matter..........but in this situation with Venez, what other position can I take?  Ive never met a single Venez outside of Venez who supports the bus driver......Not a one.....And I have looked high and low...........

dumluk wrote:

And Osage....I really wonder about life and God when I find myself in agreement with people like Elliot Abrams and John Bolton and even Trumpf for that matter.....

I take it as a good sign that you seem to be examining things analytically and perhaps coming up with some right answers...

Just saw a report on CNN International about the humanitarian crisis in Venez as they interviewed some refugees in Colombia.  An RN claimed back home she worked 15 days for a sack of flour.  A lawyer claimed there was no other way to feed her children.  Both women said they were selling sex in Colombia at $6 per man.  Sounds sad, gotta wonder if any of this is headed for Ecuador.  One would think the crisis has hit the breaking point, but the beat goes on.

I would be very surprised if it hasnt already hit Ecuador.....I met plenty Venezulanos there......and some real good lookin ones too......still chattin with em......But not one of em offered sex for plata........They were good chicas with dignity and working doing one thing or another.........But Im sure the hookers are there too.....Theres over 500,000 at last count right?

Whatever transpires in Colombia will be reflected much less in Ecuador. There are many reasons including Colombia's huge border with Venezuela with capital Caracas only 400 miles away. The dynamics are completely different and the migration numbers to date reveal this reality as there are over 1 million Venezuelans in Colombia with many more crossing the border. Many of whom, we can assume return to Venezuela after earning money, buying food etc. In other words it's easier for them to go back and forth and they find convenience in that.

There's also the fact that Ecuador only has a population of about 17 million people and there is only so much opportunity. On the ground in Quito, Venezuelans are noticeably less than they were last summer. For many Venezuelans, the allure of Ecuador has waned, and it's also true for Ecuadorians as Venezuelans are no longer viewed favorably.

In simple terms, Ecuador is a dead-end for them, and apparently they have finally accepted this fact. What Ecuador remains is a corridor to Peru and wealthier Chile and Uruguay. And with a 72 hour pass, Venezuelans can make their way there.

Yup, there is more “control” now within Ecuador and also at the border as many are turned back, and I believe as much as 500 the first week of February.

As for the CNN piece, it seems like a sensationalized story. I know quite a few Venezuelans and they are nothing like the CNN article. But, I'm sure desperate people do desperate things.

I think some people assume that the migration problem would worsen in Ecuador from year to year. But as we've seen the past few months, it's not the case. Here is an article from an Ecuadorian newspaper that details the situation at the border. The article states there were as many as 5000 thousand Venezuelans arriving daily in Ecuador last summer (Aug 2018). But nowadays, that number does not exceed 200 a day. Keep in mind that most of them move on-wards to Peru and elsewhere.

Q: What's the difference between Venezuelans and Colombians in Quito?

A: Aside from being friendlier and harder working, Colombians want to permanently live in Quito/Ecuador. As a matter of fact, almost all of them. 69%(refugees/asylum seekers) to 84%(non-refugees), according to this UNHCR urban profile of Colombians in Quito.

This is not a condemnation of Venezuelans because they should want to return home. It's, however, an observation which IMO is substantial with regards to making friends and relationships. My point is, there is more stability with Colombians in Quito (same with Cubans) than with Venezuelans. 

If one observes Venezuelans, they are like a revolving door. Always on the move, this is evident in places of work and residences. They are notorious in Quito for sub-letting. A couple or small family will move in to an apartment, and a week later there are more inhabitants.

Considering the circumstances, it shouldnt be difficult to understand.......life is very difficult for many if not most of them right now........Ive met many Venezulanos who are working in Colombia and here in Panama just fine.......My buddy who runs a bar/rest has a Venez cook who has proved himself over time.....Mi amigo likes him so much he invited him to live in a spare bedroom so Alfredo could save more $$ and send more $$ back to the familia in Venez.......Plenty of good ones......also plenty of whiners and troublemakers.......mainly in Colombia, Ecuador and probably Peru......One good lookin 35 yr old Venez just tried to scam me for some money on the first ciber date, hahahahaha.........the bells went off quick.........Its been said numerous times over the years, throughout history, that the people get the govt that they deserve........and I suppose that could equally apply to the U.S.

Ecuador has suspended its membership in UNASUR (similar to EU but without common currency) today. All matters regarding the union are suspended and formal steps to leave it were initiated.

So why is this news in this thread?

The answer, dear members, is that almost all Venezuelans living legally in the country  do so via the UNASUR visa which allows them to reside and work for 2 years. This visa can then be renewed indefinitely.

Lets see how this plays out.

Source

There's a little confusion at the moment. The constitutional court has suspended the “restrictions” that are currently in place for Venezuelans, for example apostilled police certificates that state whether or not a person has a criminal record. Anyhow, there are Venezuelans at the border saying “let us in”, but the suspension is apparently not in effect yet or at least the border guys don't have word yet.

If the “restrictions” are indeed suspended then we can probably expect more Venezuelans from April on-wards.

BTW: The basis for the suspension is that it's unconstitutional because it violates the rights of migrants who may be seeking asylum/refugee status.

Source: local radio and newspapers

Alright guys, here's an update from Quito on the Venezuelan situation. Everything seems normal, and we're well into 2019 and it continues to be nothing like last year. I mean last year was horrible, Venezuelans were everywhere, occupying bus stations, on the streets with suitcases.

When I drive the same streets day after day, my observation is that Venezuelans begging for money are continuously changing. And I think to some extent that is attributed to Venezuelan migrant fatigue in the capital. The begging is so commonplace, nowadays, that they've become oblivious to many people.

This is quite natural and to emphasize my point - if you are driving along one of the main avenues in the capital. 10 de agosto for example and there's a beggar at one traffic light, and then another at the next, and so on and so on. So, even if you give one person a quarter or a dollar there are many more ahead.

So, with this turnaround, I don't think these beggars are getting much. If begging was lucrative at one street corner then I don't think the beggars would relinquish it. They would just stay there, day in and day out getting money.

Personally, I think I probably add to this street problem because I do give money but mainly to older people. Sometimes to families despite detesting the fact that they use children to generate sympathy.