Brazilian taxes for U.S retirees

ndfansince53....I have lived in the NE of Brazil for just over 1 year.  I retired in the states, bought a villa in Praia de Pipa, Brazil back in 2009 and then moved in just this past July (2015).  If you are not going to be working here in Brazil and living off of your pension, 401k and or SOC then I would recommend the following.  DO NOT have this money deposited automatically by a US bank or by the US Government into a Brazilian bank account.  Banks in this country do unethical things with money and transferring it into an account that pays higher maintenance fees without telling you are not uncommon.  As an expat I have my retirement pension and SOC checks directly deposited into a US Bank.  I use Bank of America as most of the Brazilian banks do business with them and have contract agreements.  I pull what ever money I need to pay bills directly from a Brazilian Bank ATM using my us account.  For everything else I use my Bank of America debit card to pay for meals, drinks and purchases.  With all of that said.....I file and pay US Taxes and I do not file any Brazilian taxes.  I do not know nor have I heard of any other expats (USA) that report their retirement incoming to both and pay taxes to both.

Definitely go with his advice! I do the same! Withdrawal what I need and use card when I need too. My bank even reimburses ATM fees. So I make out well.

Thanks to everyone for your responses.
Another question (and I should have thought of this before) - my wife has duel citizenship (Brazilian and U.S.).  She was born in Brazil and became a naturalized U.S. citizen about 18 Years ago.
She will be retiring from her job with the State of Illinois in about 2 years.

She will also be collecting a pension, Soc. Sec. and IRA.

How does that change things, if at all?

Thanks, again.

ndfansince53............personally I think nothing changes as long as you & your wife do not work in Brazil.  USA retirement, use USA banks.  But, because she may be a citizen of Brazil you might want to contact a good Accountant in Brazil and get the answer straight from the Horses mouth!

I am in the process of getting my Vipers now.  I understand it is a requirement of this visa that your bank in the U.S. must transfer your funds to a Brazilian bank account.  In fact, for the application, you are required to submit a letter from your U.S. banking institution that they will be able to deposit at least US $3,000 (depending on which embassy you have to use) into your Brazilian account.  How are you all getting around that requirement?

Travelr64..........I changed my Permanent Residence Visa that had expired to one of "Indeterminada" this last year as I had retired and was moving to Brazil.  It is the law as you stated and I have read and understand it.   I had my letter from the Retirement Association that outlined how much I am receiving per month/year and a letter from the bank showing it would transfer funds if necessary.  The PF didn't ask for it and when I slid the paper across the desk for him to review.....he slid it back and said "not needed."  I have spoken with others who have said the same thing....no proof of Brazilian deposit of US funds was ever asked for.  Now things may have changed and they might be clamping down, but I also think that they understand that this would be a deal breaker for those that want to spend money in this country after retiring.  Deposit of money into a Brazilian bank will result in taxes being auto-deducted from your withdrawal in many cases.  That is double taxing the retiring expat and could very well be the reason for many deciding not to come here.  The other issue........many applying for this VIPER have not yet received their CPF number that is required to open a bank account in Brazil.  The RNE (Cedula De Identidade de Estrangeiros) is required first before getting an CPF.  The other issue is...........have you ever opened an account in Brazil?  It is an extreme exercise in patience and temperament and it took me the better part of 2 months to get both Banco Do Brazil and Bradesco to open an account.  And then add that some of the banks are really not wanting Americans (do Norte) because of the IRS requirement that banks report the American account activities.

hi

Please note that everything GOTCHA has stated is correct.

However please note that the RNE/CIE is not required to obtain a CPF.  You can fill out your CPF application online and visit any Receita Federal after making the payment in any correiros or other payment institution along with your passport to receive it.   Also just fyi you would have an easier time with Santander or Itau bank as they are more well versed in opening accounts for Estrangeiros.

Please inform the  Receita Federal of this as they sent me away because I failed to bring it with me to the Natal Office.  They wouldn't process the CPF until I returned the next day with my RNE (CIE) in hand.  Now with that said, the Brazilian bureaucracy does do funny things that are often outside of what the law or directives may state!

I am so sorry that you had this experience.  There is nothing mentioned in law that states that you must have your RNE/CIE to obtain a CPF.  As a matter of fact a person can also apply for a CPF from there countries respective Embassy or Consulate if they want.  I personally got my CPF when I had arrived to Brazil the first time on a visit visa.  I believe I applied for my Permanency a good 6 months after that. 

I believe that you probably just ran into the wrong person at the Receita Federal.  As I have experienced a lot of times myself that if a person holding a position here in a government office doesn't know the process in there mind they think that it cannot be done.

By the way, as far as opening bank accounts is concerned, the manager at the first Banco do Brasil I visited had told me that it is not possible for "estrangeiros" to open an account in Banco do Brasil.  However after 2 weeks I had moved to another address and went to the Banco do Brasil over there.  Believe it or not the lady took my documents and asked me to wait after a wait of about 20 minutes she came back with the forms that needed to be signed and after about an hours time I had my Conta Corrente in Banco do Brasil

I got my CPF in Chicago at the Brazilian consulate.

I love the comments about inconsistency dealing with Brazilian government agencies.

I went to Brazil the first time in 2001 and have visited my wife's family another 5 times.

The lack of professionalism, consistency, knowledge, service, etc. blows me away.

Thanks to all for their comments.

stanza51 wrote:

I believe that you probably just ran into the wrong person at the Receita Federal.  As I have experienced a lot of times myself that if a person holding a position here in a government office doesn't know the process in there mind they think that it cannot be done.

Stanza51, couldn't agree more.  I've met people working in Brazilian government offices who appeared to have no clue as to what they were doing. For example, I was told by two people at my local Policia Federal that I wasn't eligible for a Permanent Visa (via marriage) because my husband isn't Brazilian (he's also a foreigner with a Permanent Visa). Needless to say, they were WRONG. 

hehe I wonder if you got a chance to run into them again after receiving your CIE.  It would be awesome to see the looks on there faces

I have not opened a bank account in Brazil, but I have had a CPF for many years.  No RNE is needed to apply for the CPF.  Hopefully, it's as you say, that the officials in Brazil will not follow up with the deposit requirements.  I guess I'll see when I get there.  Thanks much for your input.

And yes, I have  dealt with the Brazilian bureaucracy much in the past as I did open a community non-profit in 2009.  It's horrible, I know.  The requirements change depending on which bureaucrat you are dealing with at the time.

@CraigF - I bank with Chase and they charge me Atm fees. Can you PM me which bank you use so I start banking with them and save money. Thanks!

I have Capitalone 360.  No Foreign bank fees. you can google which banksdon't charge you.

USAA is the best!

Gotcha,
Where did you establish your residence?  What PF office did you go to when you checkied in that they didn't require you to establish a bank account?  The gal that runs the PF office where I'm headed hasn't ever been really friendly with me.

There is no requirement to have a Bank account. I've been here since 2013 and still us my USA bank account.

I'm guessing you use your ATM card, which I have done when visiting Brazil.

What does one do if they find themselves in a situation in which they may have to have a significant amount of money transferred to them while living in Brazil?

Thanks, in advance, for your reply.