New in Riyadh

use the calssifieds.

forgot 2 mention, i speak arabic almost as good as saudis!! they have trouble figuring out if i am or am not a saudi!!

moby wrote:

I have been told that I cannot change my sponsorship before completing 2 years with my current sponsor.

I was told that, too. It's a fairly new law.  Aren't we the lucky ones?

Alliecat wrote:

moby wrote:

I have been told that I cannot change my sponsorship before completing 2 years with my current sponsor.

I was told that, too. It's a fairly new law.  Aren't we the lucky ones?

This law came very recently and I was told it applies to all irrepective of how old you r to KSA, is this true?

Loads of new laws.. jsut had to get my iqama renewed found out that I had to get my attested degree certificate and soem other stuff..

My advice to moby: stick it out for the next one and half years and start searching for something better in the meanwhile.
else u will have to seek work outside Saudi Arabia, but there are some GCC laws too that have been brought about. But otherwise if u have the proper documentation (contract letter with the salary mentioned) and also a valid work visa stamped in your passport, then you should be able to seek a some grievances from the Labor office. But then I am not too sure on how to proceed that way.

And regarding the salary, dint you know about it in the beginning itself? when you were recruited?

moby wrote:

I have been told that I cannot change my sponsorship before completing 2 years with my current sponsor.

Try to resolve this amicably with your current sponsor. I have known my friends who have one sponsor on paper,but they are working some where else. This is possible unless ur new employer presses release and transfer of Sponsorship from your current sponsor.

Its all depends on the people and there r nice people, who can help on this, so there is a light at the end of the tunnel, u can sort this out. Have a shot and C how it goes................. Best of luck. Cheers..........

RedGoblin wrote:

But otherwise if u have the proper documentation (contract letter with the salary mentioned) and also a valid work visa stamped in your passport, then you should be able to seek a some grievances from the Labor office. But then I am not too sure on how to proceed that way.

And regarding the salary, dint you know about it in the beginning itself? when you were recruited?

It's too tough to win a suite in a labor court unless you have all 200% documentation, which I doubt in many cases.

Most of the visa documentation is in Arabic and due to the way visa processing works here in KSA, he might had a visa on the name of "Sales Supervisor/Engineer" (it woudlnt be a surprise even if the visa profession says something else than a sales profession) even though his offer letter says "Sales Manager"  and in this case, its a straightforward losing case.

Amicable solution is better than confrontation.

I would suggest contacting a Labour Lawyers for the purpose, this new 2 year law has been affected recently but no one is confirm about it, so better get any expert to check it out for you if it applies to you or not. Your employers will obviously tell you otherwise so don't let them know about it.

wow. lots of friendly peeps here ready to help the newbie

My profession on the visa says "Marketing Specialist"
I have been here 6 months and still no Iqama.

Thanks everyone, and yes, Allie cat.... Meowww to you too !

moby wrote:

My profession on the visa says "Marketing Specialist"

Here we go, this is a problem for a labor suite as you cant claim that u r offered a job "Sales Supervisor" instead of "Sales Manager" , ur sponsor can claim both r marketting specialist jobs.

moby wrote:

I have been here 6 months and still no Iqama.

is this a procedural delay or something else?

slyshooter wrote:

I would suggest contacting a Labour Lawyers for the purpose, this new 2 year law has been affected recently but no one is confirm about it, so better get any expert to check it out for you if it applies to you or not. Your employers will obviously tell you otherwise so don't let them know about it.

How does it solve the current problem unless I am missing some thing here?  Even if this law is not in force, the current sponsor should always agree for a release and transfer to the next Sponsor unless the next sponsor dont presses for it. So in any case, it has to be an amicable transfer than a confronted transfer.

uvnpsaradhi: the iqama delay is a procedural delay i suppose

And i agree that an amicable transfer is better than a confrontal transfer. I say that based out of my experience of Qatar. You see I didnt mention here that I was born and brought up in Qatar and the sponsorship laws there are similar to the ones here.

I believe appoaching the labor department will help much in my case.

You can approach the labor department, but then I am warning you, this is going to be a long and hard procedure. and you better be prepared for that..

and the iqama delay: you better keep asking. Just keep forcing them to make it as fast as possible.

Amicable or confrontational, a transfer at this point in time is going to be really difficult, because of the 2 yr law. Now you could go to your current sponsor and then work out an "arrangement"  so that he will allow you to search for a better opportunity here itself.

One word of advice, dont try and jump bail on the visa. There is something like a GCC blacklist and you will be put into the list if you plan on jumping on the visa. and then you will have to wait another 2 or something years to get back into GCC countries. and there are other rules too... and the rles keep changing as well!!

moby wrote:

Allie cat.... Meowww to you too !

Hmmmm.. I like a man who meows   lol

But seriously, you don't want to involve the labor board because then you are stuck here until it's resolved and these things can take ages, from what I've read .. and the bottom line is you won't win anyway.  I'm all for fighting when you're right but if the end result is you've shot yourself in the foot, what's the point?

Seems to me you have four options:  1. try to resolve this amicably with your employer (and maybe it will work out); 2.  if it isn't resolved,  you do your time here and look for another job towards the end of your contract when you'll be free; 3. look for another job now and maybe if the new employer wants you badly enough and has wasta, they can arrange the transfer of sponsorship; or, 4.  leave and wait the 2/3 year penalty time.

Myself, if I couldn't work it out with my employer I'd take option #4 since its the same length of time you'd be here working and as you said, you'd be making the same money at home (under much more pleasant circumstances, I have no doubts!).

Best of luck

uvnpsaradhi wrote:

slyshooter wrote:

I would suggest contacting a Labour Lawyers for the purpose, this new 2 year law has been affected recently but no one is confirm about it, so better get any expert to check it out for you if it applies to you or not. Your employers will obviously tell you otherwise so don't let them know about it.

How does it solve the current problem unless I am missing some thing here?  Even if this law is not in force, the current sponsor should always agree for a release and transfer to the next Sponsor unless the next sponsor dont presses for it. So in any case, it has to be an amicable transfer than a confronted transfer.

Saradhi,

You've been in Saudia for only 2 months and have worked with only one company till now, so I would seriously suggest you to refrain from giving expert opinions.

Moby,

I would suggest you to get your iqama first, apply at different places, and once you get a confirmed job offer then think about the next possibility.

normally if your next employer is a bigger, stronger organization, they can bail you out from this situation. If your current employer doesn't comply with your requirements, get a lawyer, be sure to know what exactly they wrote in your contract offer that you signed.

Incase you signed there mentioning that you are contracted for atleast a period of 2 years, there is no way out then, otherwise, labour court sounds tiresome, but is easy and is winnable as a couple of friends of mine have done that when their employers refused to give a release.

^ completely agree.

stick it out , hope for the best and keep trying..

slyshooter wrote:

uvnpsaradhi wrote:

slyshooter wrote:

I would suggest contacting a Labour Lawyers for the purpose, this new 2 year law has been affected recently but no one is confirm about it, so better get any expert to check it out for you if it applies to you or not. Your employers will obviously tell you otherwise so don't let them know about it.

How does it solve the current problem unless I am missing some thing here?  Even if this law is not in force, the current sponsor should always agree for a release and transfer to the next Sponsor unless the next sponsor dont presses for it. So in any case, it has to be an amicable transfer than a confronted transfer.

Saradhi,

You've been in Saudia for only 2 months and have worked with only one company till now, so I would seriously suggest you to refrain from giving expert opinions.

slyshooter,
what is the difference between my advise and most of the expert opinions given here?

I was suggesting him to look for a better job, go for an amicable transfer from his current sponsor to his next sponsor amicably. so wt's wrong with it??????

My company has been in this middle east market for more than 20 years and we keep hearing such cases number of times and we even discusses these in board meetings and wtever advices I could give are based on my previous experience as a procurement manager involved in mobilizing the people to KSA, based on the disussions I am having with the people, different sponsors, who is in KSA for more than 40 years and in this man power business for the last 20 years, my friends etc. We were working with more than 50+ companies in KSA over the period and procure people within KSA and from outside and has been well aware of various complexities involved in procuring people from one company to another within KSA.

I know one of my friends who is a project manager been in KSA for the last 7 years. From the beginning, He is under sponsor A, switched his job to work in a CompanyX (not disclosed) 5 years back, but his sponsorship is still with his past sponsor SPONSOR A, CompanyX agreed to pay some X RIYALS per year to the SPONSOR A because they really liked this guy's skillset and thought he would be an asset to them.........after hearing this new law, this guy again contacted CompanyX last week and they said they dont have an issue his continueing there and SPONSOR A even agreed for it...........

Simple thing is whether this 2 year law exists or not "If your current and next sponsor agrees to co-operate wth you, you can switch your jobs. Its all depends on ur next sponsor if they want the release and transfer immediately or if your next sponsor really liked ur skillsets and wants you for sure, they can talk to ur present sponsor, convince them for a job transfer first and the sponsorship change can still happen later......... Either the candidate need to pay some yearly FEE to the previous sponsor or the new spnsor is kind enough to accomodate that fee. there r different ways here.........

Dont judge the people based on their Stay at KSA, but judge by whatever they r saying.

I was saying the same thing what most poeple said above and I am asked to refrain???? Please First understand what I am speaking first and then build up ur opinion..................

Every experience and every opinion counts...................

slyshooter wrote:

normally if your next employer is a bigger, stronger organization, they can bail you out from this situation. If your current employer doesn't comply with your requirements, get a lawyer, be sure to know what exactly they wrote in your contract offer that you signed.

Incase you signed there mentioning that you are contracted for atleast a period of 2 years, there is no way out then

Okay, from my personal experience:  I've completed my one year that I'd contracted for.  I'm into my second year and it's company policy that I can resign by giving three months notice.

A few months ago I was approached by a large (read LARGE) important company in the EAST .. who, when they found out I'd been with my current employer less than 2 years, dropped me like a hot potato, stating the recent law that one must be with one's current employer a minimum of two years. 

Now, maybe if I'd left after my one year contract and they'd recruited me from home, it would probably be a different story (?).  But since I'm still in the Kingdom and employed with sponsor for less than two years, they won't consider it.

Is this the time to pick sides?
Team sly and team saradhi!! Hehehehehe...

Anyway, just put whatever you think can help the guy and then let him decide, it is after all for him to read, and find out what he has to take. he was just asking for our opinions,ideas, and loopholes in the law if any.

RedGoblin wrote:

Is this the time to pick sides?
Team sly and team saradhi!! Hehehehehe...

Nothing like that here. Every one has their opinion based on their own experience, its upto the person who asked the Q to take the summary of what has been expressed and act on it.

Cheers..........

^ yeah I know..
I wrote the same thing in the second para..

Because sly made a statement, I would hardly consider it 'abuse' (a word somebody likes to bandy about).

may be you r too fast to C my earlier post, I edited it later. I dont consider it as an abuse, but a way of not understanding what I said earlier.

People who don't agree with me , i tend to hunt them and shoot them down

Salman is currently on top of my hitlist, so becareful

uvnpsaradhi wrote:

slyshooter,
what is the difference between my advise and most of the expert opinions given here?

I was suggesting him to look for a better job, go for an amicable transfer from his current sponsor to his next sponsor amicably. so wt's wrong with it??????

My company has been in this middle east market for more than 20 years and we keep hearing such cases number of times and we even discusses these in board meetings and wtever advices I could give are based on my previous experience as a procurement manager involved in mobilizing the people to KSA, based on the disussions I am having with the people, different sponsors, who is in KSA for more than 40 years and in this man power business for the last 20 years, my friends etc. We were working with more than 50+ companies in KSA over the period and procure people within KSA and from outside and has been well aware of various complexities involved in procuring people from one company to another within KSA.

I know one of my friends who is a project manager been in KSA for the last 7 years. From the beginning, He is under sponsor A, switched his job to work in a CompanyX (not disclosed) 5 years back, but his sponsorship is still with his past sponsor SPONSOR A, CompanyX agreed to pay some X RIYALS per year to the SPONSOR A because they really liked this guy's skillset and thought he would be an asset to them.........after hearing this new law, this guy again contacted CompanyX last week and they said they dont have an issue his continueing there and SPONSOR A even agreed for it...........

Simple thing is whether this 2 year law exists or not "If your current and next sponsor agrees to co-operate wth you, you can switch your jobs. Its all depends on ur next sponsor if they want the release and transfer immediately or if your next sponsor really liked ur skillsets and wants you for sure, they can talk to ur present sponsor, convince them for a job transfer first and the sponsorship change can still happen later......... Either the candidate need to pay some yearly FEE to the previous sponsor or the new spnsor is kind enough to accomodate that fee. there r different ways here.........

Dont judge the people based on their Stay at KSA, but judge by whatever they r saying.

I was saying the same thing what most poeple said above and I am asked to refrain???? Please First understand what I am speaking first and then build up ur opinion..................

Every experience and every opinion counts...................

Still not convincing enought, you gotta stay more to learn more

@sly: leave the guy alone mate.. let him be.

slyshooter wrote:

People who don't agree with me , i tend to hunt them and shoot them down

Salman is currently on top of my hitlist, so becareful

Becareful, after some time you may disagree with urself and may end up shooting urself.

slyshooter wrote:

uvnpsaradhi wrote:

slyshooter,
what is the difference between my advise and most of the expert opinions given here?

I was suggesting him to look for a better job, go for an amicable transfer from his current sponsor to his next sponsor amicably. so wt's wrong with it??????

My company has been in this middle east market for more than 20 years and we keep hearing such cases number of times and we even discusses these in board meetings and wtever advices I could give are based on my previous experience as a procurement manager involved in mobilizing the people to KSA, based on the disussions I am having with the people, different sponsors, who is in KSA for more than 40 years and in this man power business for the last 20 years, my friends etc. We were working with more than 50+ companies in KSA over the period and procure people within KSA and from outside and has been well aware of various complexities involved in procuring people from one company to another within KSA.

I know one of my friends who is a project manager been in KSA for the last 7 years. From the beginning, He is under sponsor A, switched his job to work in a CompanyX (not disclosed) 5 years back, but his sponsorship is still with his past sponsor SPONSOR A, CompanyX agreed to pay some X RIYALS per year to the SPONSOR A because they really liked this guy's skillset and thought he would be an asset to them.........after hearing this new law, this guy again contacted CompanyX last week and they said they dont have an issue his continueing there and SPONSOR A even agreed for it...........

Simple thing is whether this 2 year law exists or not "If your current and next sponsor agrees to co-operate wth you, you can switch your jobs. Its all depends on ur next sponsor if they want the release and transfer immediately or if your next sponsor really liked ur skillsets and wants you for sure, they can talk to ur present sponsor, convince them for a job transfer first and the sponsorship change can still happen later......... Either the candidate need to pay some yearly FEE to the previous sponsor or the new spnsor is kind enough to accomodate that fee. there r different ways here.........

Dont judge the people based on their Stay at KSA, but judge by whatever they r saying.

I was saying the same thing what most poeple said above and I am asked to refrain???? Please First understand what I am speaking first and then build up ur opinion..................

Every experience and every opinion counts...................

Still not convincing enought, you gotta stay more to learn more

OK. Being young to KSA, I know my limitations and I touch only those topics which I can contribute and respect your greater knowledge earned during ur 4+ years stay here......................................

Let's leave this here and continue our contribution to the blog and let other benefit of the opinions, good or bad, at the end of the day, forum partcipants can judge better..........................................