About food in Vietnam

I don't need to convince you anything. I have lived in many countries across the globe and can say that Vietnamese food is amongst the most delicious anywhere in the world. However it really is a matter of personal choice.

But you made a statement that was wrong. No need to try to convince us differently now, your written word is there for all to see.

As a matter of personal choice, a cheese burger or a half chicken BBQed with a cold beer has always been my favorite no matter what country I'm in.  I'm not big on world wide food.
Rick

I read an article not so long ago about VN food. In its purest form it's very healthy, the problem now is all the chemicals being added which has now changed it from being very healthy to watch out for those extras being added.

Budman1 wrote:

As a matter of personal choice, a cheese burger or a half chicken BBQed with a cold beer has always been my favorite no matter what country I'm in.  I'm not big on world wide food.
Rick

I do like burgers and stuff, although I do love the sea food restaurant in the middle of that maze of small streets in Saigon - the one that looks like it should be a car park from the outside. I can never remember what its called.

A couple of years ago I was in Peru, up north in a place called Chiclayo. There was a small crab restaurant there - thats all it did, crab n rice. Loverly!

When I finished the job in the desert, I flew back to Lima and had a couple of days report writing there. The country manager  (a Texan) of the company I was contracted to invited me for dinner at his place the night before I left for Amsterdam. He had been to the US embassy and bought a lump of beef the size of my MacAir and four times as thick, which he threw on the BBQ whilst pouring beer down my throat.

It was one of the best bits of beef I had ever eaten.

In Belize, down in Punta Gorda, there was a small cafe on stilts called the Chicken shack - there was also a rum shack nearby - inside the chicken shack was a fireplace over which there was a huge iron cauldron which bubbled away 24/7.

The chicken curry that came out of the cauldron, which was served with red peas n rice, was simply sublime.

I once lifted the lid of the cauldron and wished I hadn't. Inside was about 10 gallons of chickens feet, cockerels heads, parsons noses and other unmentionable parts.

North, about 15 km along the coast from Long Hai beach I found a sea food restaurant with only 5 tables but fresh crab and prawns to die for. At that time it was the only place in S Vietnam where I would eat Sashimi. There was a shop nearby that sold locally brewed beer hoi, which complemented the prawns perfectly.

In PDR Laos in a small place called Lakh Sau, I found restaurant with a Hmong lady chef who cooked local Hmong food that was exquisite.

In Thailand I found a tiny restaurant about ten Km from Nong Wa So that did an extensive range of Thai food that  was so delicious, it had me putting weight during the 8 months I was working in that area.

The Leaf Haus cafe in Munda, Solomon Islands was run by an Aussie bloke and his islander missus. His Aussie Sunday breakfasts were to die for.

In Thessaloniki, Greece I found a cliff top restaurant with the best sea fish and roast goat that I have ever tasted.

In Cyprus a former AEOKA terrorist leader set up a restaurant on the road to Triodes that had the best roast lamb and greek salads I have ever eaten in my life.

In Turkey I was taken to a restaurant in Ankara where we sat for four hours as dish after dish was put before us. It was an incredible pageant of superb national dishes which I will never forget.

In Dubrovnik, Croatia, there is an alley way up some marble steps that runs parallel to the road through the city. The alleyway is packed with restaurant after restaurant each one with it's own speciality food. The wine that goes with it is locally produced and free from chemicals - or it was when I was there.

In Iran I had some marvelous meals at restaurants in Tehran and Ahvaz. Beef studded with chicken cooked with almonds springs to mind.

And in Somalia, I went to a restaurant that had no food. We bought them a goat and they killed it in the kitchen and then burned it over a fire. It was pretty disgusting but we hadn't eaten for over 24 hours. I hope things have improved there since then.

In Germany, I relished bratwurst, curry wurst, zigeuner schnitzel and al manner of wild game. In fact the best Christmas dinner I ever had was an an hotel near Berlin. I had traditional roast goose with rot kohl and all the trimmings before flying back to the UK one Christmas eve.

I really don't have a preference for food, as long as it's good quality and cooked to perfection.

It is amazing how travelling throughout the world could be described by what we find inside a simple plate… Far from white sticky rice, noodle or pho…
Very interesting.

The fact that other countries can have excellent and interesting foods does not make Vietnamese food into sticky rice, noodles and pho as you have now asserted twice.  I am perhaps fortunate that my wife was raised in the Mekong delta by a mother from a rural province in the North.  Sometimes she will make a dish that is new to me and declare "This is North Vietnamese" or "This is from the South."  She also doesn't stick to the dishes she learned at home but tries out new dishes she learns on the internet or from friends.  We seldom have phở at home and then only at breakfast which is when most Vietnamese eat it.

Remember too that there are three primary regions in Vietnam, each with distinct specialties and sometimes little sub-specialties in individual provinces or even towns.  The current government wants to emphasize the unity of the people for obvious reasons, but despite a few brief periods of unification, Vietnam really first came together as a single nation about 200 years ago with the Nguyen Dynasty.

Vietnamese is generally not culturally exclusive as some countries like Japan.  The culture and food (a key aspect of culture) can be described as accretive, that is they borrow, absorb, and slightly change.  Certainly tastes of China, Thailand, and obviously Khmer in the Mekong Delta are incorporated into Vietnamese cooking.  Indian curry dishes are popular, perhaps by way of Malaysia.  In recent times, Korean dishes are finding their way to Vietnamese family tables.  Each of these cuisines are usually cooked with a Vietnamese twist.

AlegreViajero, you should try to obtain a copy of Bourdain's Parts Unknown Season 4 Episode 4 which centers on Hue.  Of course he eats Bún bò in a market stall, but he also visits the home of a rather wealthy artist entertaining Vietnamese and French intellectuals.  She was described as knowing over 100 dishes.  No phở was served.

On a side note, I do agree with you that Filipino food is outstanding.  I have never lived there but am familiar with it from Hawaii and have had it both in restaurants and people's homes.  I have experienced different major regional styles of cooking, including Ilocano, Tagalog and Visayan but I still don't see it being as varied as Vietnamese food.  Your original complaint goes to a lack of variety, and that is exactly where your assessment fails.

I'm not fortunate to have a Vietnamese wife, and I know that could make the whole difference. But I am a good cook myself… I also live 5 km north of the tourist center of Nha Trang, right in the middle of a Vietnamese area. Here, outside on the streets and in the few restaurants around, it is mainly… rice, noodles and pho, and a few local varieties. Okay, I exaggerate just a bit. But after 6 years, I'm really, really not impress with Vietnamese food as I always have been in all the countries I visited so far.

It could be that for many km around people don't care for fancy stuff. Few uses refrigeration… what happens to all the unsold meat at markets… I question A LOT the safety of all that food offered in the area, because I see too many things that they do.

In big hotels around, way too expensive. There is a big Vietnamese restaurant downtown where I used to go… that was until I found one green worm crawling in my lettuce…

And one other problem with many restaurants is that they belong to Vietnamese, or the cook could be Vietnamese, and these people don't use herbs and spices. I have more then 40 different that I use.

I'm going to Cambodia for a visa-run in 3 weeks, and I know in advance it will be a good food experience… for a change.

PS: On the French blog, there is a warning about truck loads of dead animals making their way to markets… If you could read French, it is here.

AlegreViajero wrote:

In big hotels around, way too expensive. There is a big Vietnamese restaurant downtown where I used to go… that was until I found one green worm crawling in my lettuce…

And one other problem with many restaurants is that they belong to Vietnamese, or the cook could be Vietnamese, and these people don't use herbs and spices. I have more then 40 different that I use.

The worm is just a way to show that the lettuce is organic. 

The second comment about the spices is stunningly incomprehensible.  Why do you think the Europeans first came to and colonized this part of the world?  It was called the spice trade.  Besides the most common ones, ginger, garlic and chili peppers (admittedly an introduction from the Inca via the Galleon trade,) Vietnamese cooks use cinnamon, cloves, star anise, licorice root, fennel, cardamom, dill, and tamarind.  They also use several herbs, like Basil and Spearmint, fresh that are often used as dry spices in Western kitchens.  Other herbs like giấp cá, that smells like fish, are mostly unknown in the Europe and the Americas.  This is just a partial list based on my being more of a gourmand than a gourmet.

I have read more than once that some people, particularly top chefs, have the ability to distinguish subtle individual flavors in cooked meals.  I don't have this kind of sensory skill but I wish that I did.  As you say that you are a sausage maker, I would think that you would be able to discern the presence of these tastes.

I don't like sushi and many other junk foods. So what? It's just another personal preference. I don't get the point of this thread. You are posting in a Vietnamese forum knocking about Vietnamese food. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you hoping to convert Vietnamese over to eating Filipino food or some other foods that you like ?

Here are a few examples of Vietnamese delicatessens…

http://vietbao.vn/vi/Suc-khoe/Rung-minh … 17432/248/http://www.tinmoi.vn/ron-nguoi-cong-ngh … 22784.htmlhttp://vietbao.vn/vi/The-gioi-giai-tri/ … 53871/412/http://naungon.com/?p=7594

I had 10 more of those links but they have been removed… I don't know why!

Your last reply shows the root of your problem.  You started with a ridiculous statement that Vietnamese food was simply "rice, noodles and pho."  It appears that your real agenda is poor standards of food inspection particularly in the area of sausage making that you are trying to make money in.  That is an entirely different topic.

Congratulation THIGH, bravo, you have found the culprit !

In the mean time, here is some more "food for thought" :

http://www.viralspell.com/rescued-from- … f-disease/http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/65519 … in-Vietnamhttp://www.chinasmack.com/2012/stories/ … urant.htmlhttp://video.vnexpress.net/xa-hoi/cong- … 84323.htmlhttp://video.vnexpress.net/xa-hoi/thit- … 54677.htmlhttp://giadinh.vnexpress.net/tin-tuc/to … 78607.htmlhttp://giadinh.vnexpress.net/tin-tuc/to … 77146.html

If I knew Vietnamese, I would also find a lot more links, for example, all the truckloads of cattle interring Vietnam using some side roads from Cambodia.

That is why I make my own sausages. I buy my pork directly from the reputable slaughterhouse.

One thing is sure: some of that rotten meat finds its way to some restaurants and some process food plants. Good luck!

Let me begin by saying that most Vietnamese food is unique and very nice; however, for now there is much to be concerned with regarding some of the mainstays of Vietnamese cuisine. I'm referring to two most recent discoveries: fish-poisoning throughout the country and, too, the use of inappropriately low standard spices used in the preparation of many Vietnamese meals served publicly in cafes and restaurants.

These are significantly serious health concerns that will affect all of us who live in Vietnam. I, personally, have lived here for 5 years and throughout that time have only had minimal concern for where and what I eat outside of my own cooking. However, for now, I have, for now, stopped eating most fish except for perhaps, salmon, tuna and other fish not caught or processed within Vietnam. Also with the government now imposing stricter guidelines and regular health department inspections on food handing and content at all food consumption businesses, I (and many others who I know) am modifying my outside meal choices, at least, until the government publicly declares it safe to eat at most street food venders.

So, how does Vietnamese food compare with other Asian countries; well I'm not sure that, for the moment, it would rate very highly unless, of course, there existed similar food content issues that currently exist with this country.

If anyone responds in contrary fashion to my own thoughts, well, then their thoughts may be a little suspect, too for what I have reflected here is well documented.

That was a very weird topic because I'm not sure what did the OP hope to achieve by the statement that Vietnamese only care about rice, noodle and Phở. Probably he hopes VNmese will focus more on hamburger, steak or Vietnamese to become more Filipino?

I personally feel very very very sad for the OP for after living over 5 years in Vietnam and came up with the above statement to show his lack of experiencing the country thoroughly after all those years. Let me show you what else you can eat in Nha Trang besides rice, noodle and phở if you are willing to go out of your comfort zone "5 km north of the tourist center": bò nướng Lạc Cảnh, bánh cuốn, nem nướng, bột chiên, bánh xèo, bánh căn, há cảo, bánh ướt, cá hồng nướng muối ớt, ghẹ hấp bia, bò né Mỹ Cảnh, lẩu cá kèo, gỏi củ hũ dừa, bánh mì, dê  nướng ngũ vị, bê thui, tré bó rơm, bò kho bánh mì,  vịt tiềm, gà nướng đất sét, bánh bèo nóng, bánh đập Nha Trang, cá nướng ớt xanh, gỏi cá mai, nem chua Ninh Hoà, and tons more of food that one can eat till death without having touch noodle nor rice. If you're in Saigon, there are even more food.

I have lived in the West for awhile now. The first time I'm in Europe, my first thought was "The food here is so boring, always egg and bread and potato and a lot of meat and a lot of oil and a lot of fat" But I'm glad I didn't make any ignorant statement that the western people always care about bread, potato and meat before asking my local friends if there were anything else besides bread and potato that I should eat in Europe. Now things are good.

If I were not happy with the country I was born in and I had to wander around the globe to find a place where I like to live, I should also like the food there as well. Not that I finally can settle in a place suits me and where people accept me for years then I end up whining about their food not matching my expectations and why their food not more like the food from places I have been to ( places that I didn't even consider to settle down despite the good food). How nonsense would that be ?!

Dr. G wrote:

Let me begin by saying that most Vietnamese food is unique and very nice; however, for now there is much to be concerned with regarding some of the mainstays of Vietnamese cuisine. I'm referring to two most recent discoveries: fish-poisoning throughout the country and, too, the use of inappropriately low standard spices used in the preparation of many Vietnamese meals served publicly in cafes and restaurants.

These are significantly serious health concerns that will affect all of us who live in Vietnam. I, personally, have lived here for 5 years and throughout that time have only had minimal concern for where and what I eat outside of my own cooking. However, for now, I have, for now, stopped eating most fish except for perhaps, salmon, tuna and other fish not caught or processed within Vietnam. Also with the government now imposing stricter guidelines and regular health department inspections on food handing and content at all food consumption businesses, I (and many others who I know) am modifying my outside meal choices, at least, until the government publicly declares it safe to eat at most street food venders.

So, how does Vietnamese food compare with other Asian countries; well I'm not sure that, for the moment, it would rate very highly unless, of course, there existed similar food content issues that currently exist with this country.

If anyone responds in contrary fashion to my own thoughts, well, then their thoughts may be a little suspect, too for what I have reflected here is well documented.

I will dare to respond with my own thoughts which you might consider to be contrary to your own, well documented or otherwise - and they are certainly not suspect.

My thoughts on eating farmed fish in Vietnam have been aired before. I don't. And the reason I don't is because over nearly every fish farm I have seen, there are long drop latrine toilets. I shall not labour the point.

As for eating sea fish not processed in Vietnam, do you have no concerns about mercury content of fish, particularly Tuna, caught in Far East and South Pacific seas? How about the levels of cadmium and other heavy metals that are increasing found in wild sea fish caught in the far East?

You are not wrong to sound a warning, but to generalise to the extent that you have means that people, if they take your advice at face value, should only buy tinned food from foreign sources. Yet, for example,  my wifes family breeds excellent pigs that are free from toxins, heavy metals and things like melamin, in the Central Highlands. They also grow coffee to a very high standard.

I personally rarely eat Vietnamese beef because I don't have pneumatic teeth, but my mother in law breeds superb corn fed chickens (she grows the corn too), which we regularly enjoy.

So, simply taking normal precautions with your food acquisitions should be enough to protect your health, with no need for scaremongering.

I wonder, have you taken up your concerns with the owners of METRO, Big C, An Am and An Phu supermarkets, to name just a few?

One other point, it is usual for people who rely on "well documented" facts to support their texts, to give the relevant references, when publishing said texts.

Bon Apetit!

There are particular species of "Tuna" of which you refer to that may have higher levels of Mercury than others, however, the most common type of Tuna that most people consume is quite healthy to eat. Where fish are on the food chain has little to do with what I presented in my previous comments.

Why should I "take my concerns to Big C", etc.??? I'm not involved in this controversy; the government is already acting upon this. Any concerns that I may have should probably be shared by you and millions of other Vietnamese and foreigners visiting VN. Please don't personalize and isolate your response to just me.

Dr. G wrote:

There are particular species of "Tuna" of which you refer to that may have higher levels of Mercury than others, however, the most common type of Tuna that most people consume is quite healthy to eat. Where fish are on the food chain has little to do with what I presented in my previous comments.

Why should I "take my concerns to Big C", etc.??? I'm not involved in this controversy; the government is already acting upon this. Any concerns that I may have should probably be shared by you and millions of other Vietnamese and foreigners visiting VN. Please don't personalize and isolate your response to just me.

But I was responding to YOUR post. And you singled out Vietnam food for your subject matter and went on to say that it is OK to eat fish caught at sea. Lets have some details, proof if you will of the food that you say is contaminated - and why you say that food from other sources is not, or do you have commercial interests in off shore fisheries?

Otherwise your comments are simple a broad criticism with little tangible substance. Which I why I suggested taking up your concerns with the big retailers to find out what they have to say. Do they screen their food? Do they take precautions? Are there any areas, suppliers that they avoid. The reason I mention the big retailers is because thats probably where most of the expats who read and write on this forum buy their supplies.

You say that you are not involved in this controversy, but by virtue of the very fact that you are passing public comments about it means that you ARE involved.

And yes, please share your concerns, but tell us what they are, specifically.

Should we have concerns about German food, since there is some research that points to it being unhealthy and causing cancer with its smoked meats and high salt content? How about the French diet ... all that red wine, is it healthy? There is evidence to support the notion that drinking too much red wine can cause gout, inflammation of the liver, inflammation of the flegms. I give these as examples and can allude opaquely to the fact that there "is evidence", without stating what that evidence is, where to find it and why we should be concerned.

A good rule of thumb when making potentially inflammatory comments in public is to remember the "rule of W":
WHAT (e.g. What are you talking about, specifically; what happened: what is being done about it; what is your purpose in raising the issue; What proof is there? Etc.)
WHEN (did it happen, recently, or is it ongoing? Etc.)
WHERE (which area, what location.  Etc.)
WHY (what reasons are there - for it happening, or for you raising the issue. Etc.)
WHO (Whodunnit? Who is raising the warning; Who is doing something about it? Etc.)

And we engineers and scientists often add an H -

HOW (how did it happen, how do we know, How can we fix/prevent it? Etc).

A Google search of "Ha Tinh fish" may lead you to not eat sea fish. I will not be eating sea fish, until things become clear. Many of my local friends are also not eating sea fish.
Not only is the mass fish death a concern, but how the government deals with the entire situation.

This is my last reply to you: I did not say or refer to "fish caught at sea" - enough said; leave it at that.

Oh dear. No need to be huffy.

Indeed you did not say "fish caught at sea" but you DID refer to fish caught at sea, your words: "However, for now, I have, for now, stopped eating most fish except for perhaps, salmon, tuna and other fish not caught or processed within Vietnam."

Since Tuna is an ocean fish (Salmon too, actually) , one is forced to to wonder where you think they are resident, if not at sea? Did you think that such creatures are born in tins, perhaps?

You said, and I quote: "Where fish are on the food chain has little to do with what I presented in my previous comments." My only comment here is to scratch my head and ask: "Eh?"

Going back to the subject of fresh water fish. There are concerns being voiced international about toxic contamination of aquatic life in the Mekong river. But this is not limited to Vietnam. The pollution which affects the river species is also evident in China, I draw your attention to one study (there are several that may easily be accessed). I make no comment about any bias that may be perceived by the reader: http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 … 9-3#page-2

There is indeed no need for you to respond to my posts anymore, since it appears obvious that only want to impose your opinion on the readers of this blog, rather than engage in discussion. I think that it is clear that your original post was ill considered and simply a general comment which might better have been expressed as: When eating out be sure of the food quality you are eating, whatever country you are in.

The comment is certainly wise advice for any traveller and in any country, world wide and is not limited to Vietnam.

Regarding the contamination of sea fish with heavy metals, there are many sources of information, here is just one:

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/mercury-guide

But I'd be interested to know, which species of tuna you consider is consumed in the greatest volume by people in Vietnam. Instead of making vague comments, such concrete information, with regard to its toxicity, might be valuable to the readers of this blog - especially in respect of any expectant or nursing mothers.

The recent revelations regarding toxic contamination of fish around central Vietnam is now reasonably well documented however Vietnam has over 2000 kilometres of coast, not all of which is known to be affected.

In respect of your apparent preference for salmon, how about some nice Seattle salmon from the USA?

http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/17/your-salm … t-5758330/

No? Or perhaps some delicious, healthy Scottish farmed salmon?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic … alert.html

Or maybe some nice Pacific salmon marinated in Dioxin?

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/504661

AlegreViajero wrote:

Congratulation THIGH, bravo, you have found the culprit !

In the mean time, here is some more "food for thought" :

http://www.viralspell.com/rescued-from- … f-disease/http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/65519 … in-Vietnamhttp://www.chinasmack.com/2012/stories/ … urant.htmlhttp://video.vnexpress.net/xa-hoi/cong- … 84323.htmlhttp://video.vnexpress.net/xa-hoi/thit- … 54677.htmlhttp://giadinh.vnexpress.net/tin-tuc/to … 78607.htmlhttp://giadinh.vnexpress.net/tin-tuc/to … 77146.html

If I knew Vietnamese, I would also find a lot more links, for example, all the truckloads of cattle interring Vietnam using some side roads from Cambodia.

That is why I make my own sausages. I buy my pork directly from the reputable slaughterhouse.

One thing is sure: some of that rotten meat finds its way to some restaurants and some process food plants. Good luck!

So, and without joking, I recommend that you start a sausage thread. Whats your favourite type of sausage? How do you make your sausages? What goes into them? And so on. I am sure that many readers will join in with their favourites.

For myself, being part Polish I like Polish sausages of which there are many kinds, each from a region of the country with a history of its own

These are just today's headlines:

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/34600/for … ish-deathshttp://www.thanhniennews.com/society/we … 61762.htmlhttp://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/specia … etnam.html

Some people have already been caught transporting these dead fish, the way I see that is some other people did not get caught.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/specia … tnam-.html


And the sausage market:

http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/296175/sa … ition.html


Hopefully the powers that be gets things under control and choose health for all/most rather than wealth for a few, we shall see. One could probably pick headlines, like these, from any country. Since I am in Vietnam, I will focus on the food that I am may be consuming.

My first job was in a slaughterhouse, glad I no longer do that!

Here is the trash can of the planet.
Here is the marine cemetery of our planet.
Even for our seafoods.

It is without frontiers…

Your are right, Eodmatt, sausage have centuries of history (a bit like cheese), and Poland is no exception. It is the one food that brings more people together for festival, parties and evens then any other food. Sausages tell a lot about its country of origin and its people.

My comment for the Polish recipe goes like this:

Poles claim that their two main basic foodstuffs are bread and sausage, and that the most typical ingredients used in Polish cuisine are sauerkraut, beetroot, cucumbers (gherkins), sour cream, kohlrabi, mushrooms, sausages and smoked sausage. Therefore, they take much pride in the variety of their sausages which number in the hundreds. Recipes vary by region and family. Juniper, so abundant in Poland, is the most popular smoking wood for sausages, hams and meats, giving them their characteristic taste. And contrary to popular belief, the word kielbasa does not refer only to the large smoked links commonly seen vacuum-packed in grocery stores. Kielbasa is the generic word for sausage, so whether it is smoked, fresh or cured, a kielbasa will always have a modifier to describe just what kind of sausage it is.

So, we choose our Polish kielbasa to be the famous Krakowska. It gets its name from the famous old Polish city of Krakow (Cracow), where hungry connoisseurs and partygoers have enjoyed it for centuries. It's made from lean pork, seasoned with pepper, allspice, and coriander, and, of course… lots of garlic. You'll love it!

Smacznego!

MY INTERNATIONAL SAUSAGE RECIPES ARE FROM:
Australia (the Saveloy), Britain (the Cumberland), France (the Toulouse w/white wine and brandy), Germany (the Beer brat w/beer), Italy (the Hot Mama Mia! w/wine & hot chili), Louisiana, USA (the Chaurice w/hot chili), Mexico (the Chorizo w/ hot chili & Tequila & white wine), Poland (the Krakowska /w garlic), Québec, Canada (the Tourtière), Russia (the Porky-Fruity w/ volka), Thailand (the Sai long phik), Vietnam (the Market Sausage w/ rice wine), China (the fresh Lap xuong w/ Lo que mai wine & red wine), etc.