Between Jordan & USA ?

You know....VERY well put SherriO and you took some of the words right out of my mouth. First of all I just want to share a link with you all, it kinda has nothing to do with the subject, but it does....its words are just so beautiful, but it goes down deep with my relationship with my soul and life partner, Fouad, who is now in Amman, as I am here in Arvada, Colorado, trying to earn us some money to pay for our future RENT for the next year or six months until we can get Fouad papers so we can come back to the U.S.

This is going to be sort of long and detailed, because I feel so emotional about this subject but in such a balanced way .  So here's the link...it's a song by Khalid AbdurRahman called :خياله خالديات 2010 خالد عبدالرحم  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV3lRX45wg  --Kalamir might be familiar with this song and maybe not, but it's just so deep and kind of goes with my passion for Jordan and my deep and admiration, respect, and  love of my husband Fouad- in general.

I've lived in Jordan since 2005. So i have some experience. I worked there, I lived in three different areas (South of Madaba, Jerash, and Amman) over that period of time. I've only been states side a couple of months.
1. The first question was why do people want to come to the U.S even when they are well off in the Middle East. 
Some of my answers are:
A. Just less cultural restrictions and complications. Living in Jordan, comes with the social/traditional  customs and culture , sort of an every day "standard" code of living that has to be within guidelines of Jordanian or even (arab) society --which is a tax on a family's happiness- and it automatically  that means extra problems that people want to escape: Like In-law problems, needless jealous people who always seem so bored and who seem to enjoy trying to create problems between rather successful families and couples. Families want perhaps to be close to their kids as they send them off to the more prestigious universities rather then sending them off alone to the States.

Many times people go simply just to augment their already existing wealth to even more wealth to establish further financial security for their children and family's future . I lived in Houston for 4 years, and it is a very large Arab community present there, and they all have the same reasons. Usually they are here  for escaping the social pressures of living in the Jordanian Society. Khaliji neighbors that I had from like Dammam and Abu Dhabi and Riyadh were here because of temporary courses or duty that their husbands were doing in the U.S along with finishing like a masters degree. A Saudi friend of mine told me she feels her husband is more religious in the States then back Dammam. So religion, (strangely) is another reason, the fact that women can go to the mosques more easily(women can do that in Jordan, but it's RARE and not really a normal practice)  and learn about their Islam more easily rather then just staying at home while husbands go off for evening prayers and stuff. So it's usually either to augment wealth, change lifestyle, and escape the cultural sometimes family pressures and issues that are just extra stress causing a family to break apart. So they go to the States, to get far away from all that.


2. Jordanians leave the US to migrate back to Jordan...because it's just like.....God, how can I explain it. I MISS JORDAN like crazy and here i am in the states with easy healthcare, I've now got THREE jobs (but two of them I will be quitting very soon). I just feel that Jordanians are more passionate about life sometimes. I feel that Jordan has something mystical or just underlying that causes you to "miss" the Waha Circle, and those songs that the Taxi drivers play over and over again, and you just, "miss" all the funny little things that you thought you would  NEVER miss. The fact that you cannot be lazy in Jordan, is AWESOME....you always are working and that's great, because Jordan forces a person to take care of themselves more I think, even you feel more motivation to clean house in Jordan, because of that social thing where if someone were to knock on the door, I need to have my fridge clean, my floors nice, my carpets clean, I need to have a "presentable" place for my husband's guests, and that's unlike the U.S, where more emotional problems tend to stem from women who just don't have a life really accept (*if they go to the mosque for Friday prayers and Maghrib/isha prayers. But really that same old routine gets really old. I mean you can only go to the zoo so many times and the museum/aquarium so many times before you just really get so bored. Jordan offers a person to really appreciate life, and the small things, like Falafel, and sweet tea in the morning, WATER, and just how the goodness of hard work feels. Jordan makes a person strive to survive. But the people, make Jordan special. Some are good, and some are bad of course, but when you find the good ones, you never ever want to let them out of your reach. Jordan is romantic, Jordan, forces a person to really appreciate the small things in life...like bread, and cheese, and fresh air, and silence (in places like  Jerash and in the village where I lived for some time). Amman is romantic, and it's got it's own personality. You can't get that same Egyptian waiter and cafe and setting at the King Hussein Parks - anywhere else accept AMMAN Jordan. Just some of our major memories are there in Amman. Some are very bitter, and others are very very sweet. I think children who are raised in Jordan, are raised more as "go getters" and Jordanian kids seem to have so much more confidence I think then American kids by a looong shot. (Boys) Now Girls --well that's another story I don't think girls have much opportunity in jordan as they would here back in the states ofcourse. But morally, girls are more protected in Jordan in SOME Ways (NOT ALWAYS sometimes they want to marry they guy they are in love with and not given that  choice in Jordan- whereas in the US they could easily get married and just runaway with her man if her dad refused, literally, but ofcourse she'd risk losing her family ties completely still. But physically, she'd be more free here in the states.(usually relatives cannot harm her by the law nor force her beyond her will, where as in Jordan, a daughter is under her father's LEGAL jurisdiction until she get's married, and the Bedouin/Arab Tribal Customs are part of the Justice system in Jordan. (I believe it is like SECOND in Jurisdiction). Where as the United States grants much more freedom to every single citizen, be it man woman or child.

Quality of life?? I mean it's a given. Life is MUCH better quality wise in the United States, Latest medical, it's easy to buy a car, (cars are so cheap here) and it's just 100% easier to get a job here as opposed to Jordan. Here it's like -as SherriO said, the land of opportunities. If you want, you can just pack up and get in your car and move to California. Just drive. If you want you can go to Washington, there's just so much opportunity here. And I feel a stark difference between people here and back in Jordan. In Jordan, people are so clouded with poverty and little choices, that they are just forced to "accept" whatever is there, and they just live substandard lives( now I'm talking about the poor class --not the wealthy class). I mean when you are broke in Jordan, you are reallly really broke, I mean broke here in the US is different the being broke over there. Broke here means oh, you can't pay your credit card payment on time, or you can't go out to Applebee's this weekend cause you gotta pay the rent ect...but broke there is like, you have no food in your fridge, and you eat bread with salt and you drink tea with very little sugar everyday to stay alive. Broke in Jordan is when you go and sell your mobile phone in order to eat for the next few weeks until you find another solution. So I think the "Wealthy" come back here because they think that they can open a  new business, raise their kids in an environment where they're not exposed to the whole sex before marriage, and drinking/drugs scene (AS EASILY) as they would be in the states. (it's still there in Jordan, but it's MUCH less- depending on where you live ofcourse--Irbid --yikes-- Amman...still more yikes. But like Madaba, or Jerash, or Azraq, Wadi Musa, Tafileh, Ma'an, girls FEAR doing anything that is remotely interpreted as being promiscuous as they protect . So there's no kids' born out of wedlock, there's not a lot of the social problems that we see here in the states. (WHICH TO ME--is a GOOD Thing-- I don't like promiscuity, and I think a "free sex" society is harmful and against human nature, as we are humans with souls, not animals.  BUT THAT's MY opinion and we are entitled to having opinions. And I am proud of what I believe in.

I think the poor, don't return to Jordan, except maybe for a visit.  But I'm poor thank GOD, and I'm going back to Jordan, because of my husband and because I can't be away from him much longer. And if we had money and were well off, I honestly would choose to stay here in the states, because we'd be away from harmful people who don't want to see us happy and in love and enjoying life off the bare minimum. There are so many people who can't except you being poor- and happy. They'll just talk and talk and talk and gossip and gossip more about you. And if you don't lie to them, they don't accept you, if you don't think like they do then you are automatically an outcast.  I don't need a fancy life to be happy, yeah it helps, but I'm not materialistic. I really dislike people who have nothing better to do but just stick their noses in other people's business and that IS what Jordanian society has plenty of unfortunately. So I'm happy for us to finally come back here one day, to be away from specific harmful in-laws who constantly try to harm us, and from jealous people who always tell him, "You'll NEVER go to the States--" Well one day we'll be celebrating when that day comes when we will be "throwing salt into their eyes" like the arabic saying says, and doing exactly the opposite of what they want and expect.

I think if we lived like in some place way far away from his Family in Jordan, and if we were well off and settled in, then I'd choose to raise my kids in Jordan. It's just more moral and less easy for little teenage girls to get pregnant and ruin their lives as it is in the states. Society here is strict and it provides good limits to protect kids more. But this is ONLY and I mean ONLY if we were well off and had all the money we needed to survive there and be happy. Otherwise, --poverty creates crime so I'd rather in that case move to the states with my family, so we can live a better life, and "provide" for them a more stable future.

People in the States tend to worry about what Christmas gifts they want to get for family , in Jordan, most don't have that luxury to have such a light worry. Normal people in Jordan fear survival and enjoy the little things in life. I just feel like I had a richer more meaningful life in jordan then I do here.

Also men like to come to the States mainly for work because all they want to do is, "provide" and survive and go somewhere in life. In Jordan, if you don't join the Army, and if you're not from the wealthy class, then as a Jordanian, living there, you are pretty much screwed, because Jobs don't come unless you have a major major "wasta" and believe me, they might be original Jordanians, but most of the privately owned business owners in Amman and other places are not Jordanians, and are wealthy Palestinians, Lebanese, or some other foreign entity, so they are not "keen' about hiring "Jordanians" and look more to hiring people from their own families and tribes. --Jordanian's get "wastas' For  joining the police, the Army, one of the Ministries--MAYBE Ammanat AMMAN but that's also hard....so basically Jordanians are SOL (S#!T Outta Luck) in Jordan, so that's why I see them wanting to leave so badly, because life really bites when you can't pay rent or just give your family bread to eat because of stupid unfair injustices like nepotism and tribalism and "Wasta" -which keeps them from getting their rights that they deserve as Jordanians. It's like me being in the states, and I'm an American, unemployed, barely surviving - then this Mexican immigrant comes and gets the job I applied for simply because he's an immigrant and the society is now supposed to feel sorry for them and make special laws to accommodate them before they would for a natural born citizen. But Jordan is MUCH more complicated then that. Jordan is just political and who ever has the money, has the power, that's the rule . SO if you don't have money, you are just basically screwed, and  pretty much considered a waste of existence. And in some cases, because you are a Jordanian, you don't get jobs as easy as you should. (But you know that goes back to the arguement, --don't hate me cause I'm pretty. Some people--GOD just gave them wealth. But not always happiness and health--that's for sure. Cheers to those who enjoy wealth and happiness at the same time.

life is definetly better in the USA than here and i hate it here.   

Several of my husband's friends were forced to come back because they were deported.  I don't think that the families that have come back are here because they wanted to come back but because of the economy in the USA.  Many lost their businesses, homes  and jobs due to the economy, and since they already had a home here they decided that they would do better here since they would only have to worry about paying the utilities and food.  All of my husband's friend who have come back are miserable and wishing they could go back but they can't.  Some because they were deported and can't be allowed back and some because of lack of money. 

I plan on going back as soon as my husband dies, I hate everything about this place but I can't leave because of my kids, he won't let me take them. 

You can raise your kids in a safe enviroment in the USA in certain areas.  My neices and nephews who live in the USA are doing great and are not surrounded by bad influences.  They live in a great neighborhood where everyone shares the same morals and values.  It depends largely where you live and the values you instill in your children.

All of my husband's relatives are dying to go to the USA.  One of his nephews even married a cousin born in the USA just to get a visa to go to the USA even though he doesn't love her. 

I honestly wouldn't advise anyone living in the USA to move here.  Opportunities here are limited for everyone, rich and poor.  I am not poor and I am not rich.  I live comfortably but I still hate this society with all its hypocrisy and ethnocentric thinking.

wintersolace wrote:

life is definetly better in the USA than here and i hate it here.   

Several of my husband's friends were forced to come back because they were deported.  I don't think that the families that have come back are here because they wanted to come back but because of the economy in the USA.  Many lost their businesses, homes  and jobs due to the economy, and since they already had a home here they decided that they would do better here since they would only have to worry about paying the utilities and food.  All of my husband's friend who have come back are miserable and wishing they could go back but they can't.  Some because they were deported and can't be allowed back and some because of lack of money. 

I plan on going back as soon as my husband dies, I hate everything about this place but I can't leave because of my kids, he won't let me take them. 

You can raise your kids in a safe enviroment in the USA in certain areas.  My neices and nephews who live in the USA are doing great and are not surrounded by bad influences.  They live in a great neighborhood where everyone shares the same morals and values.  It depends largely where you live and the values you instill in your children.

All of my husband's relatives are dying to go to the USA.  One of his nephews even married a cousin born in the USA just to get a visa to go to the USA even though he doesn't love her. 

I honestly wouldn't advise anyone living in the USA to move here.  Opportunities here are limited for everyone, rich and poor.  I am not poor and I am not rich.  I live comfortably but I still hate this society with all its hypocrisy and ethnocentric thinking.

Yeah I don't think I'd live in Jordan either unless I really had no other choice. It is true about what  you said about society being full of hypocrisy. THAT IS SOOO true.

But its the sentimental memories that I have with my husband that gives me such a connection to Jordan in a very deep and emotional way.

Life in the States very simple and organized.u have time
for work ,time for friends time for my self,time for fun,and
for family.Enjoying life in Full..Your career Life & Personal
life are moving forward.
When u have friends you have real friends,They are not ur friends because u have money or they want use for something or others,,They are ur friends because u are u..
In USA you can have a Hobby for yourself to enjoy ,I don't think u can in Jordan.unless u have Money ..
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Q-Do u think Money is the reason to be happy in Jordan ?

kalamir wrote:

Life in the States very simple and organized.u have time
for work ,time for friends time for my self,time for fun,and
for family.Enjoying life in Full..Your career Life & Personal
life are moving forward.
When u have friends you have real friends,They are not ur friends because u have money or they want use for something or others,,They are ur friends because u are u..
In USA you can have a Hobby for yourself to enjoy ,I don't think u can in Jordan.unless u have Money ..
--------------------------------
Q-Do u think Money is the reason to be happy in Jordan ?

Well said...I totally agree... like 100%.

But damn...when I think about it...it's like there are no real jobs or unemployment benefits, or ANYTHING really to keep you afloat in order to make ends meet in Jordan. SO yeah...I think money is probably 87% of the root of happiness in Jordan. Because it's like...what do you do if you can't just live like everyone else, in a warm home, with a shower, and just the basic needs...NOTHING . You are screwed literally. Atleast in the U.S we can get SOME help with things like that. But there, when you are poor, you're really poor and out of luck, and you can't pay your rent, so land lords just kick you out and then you can't find a job, or you get one, and then because of your race, you get discriminated against and then you lose your job...so it just sucks in Jordan if you don't have an income. Atleast here in the states, you can get loans, you can get grants, just more options in general. PLUS-- discrimination here is a MAJOR lawsuit, and CNN story. Where as in Jordan, there is no such thing as equal opportunity (they try though, but again the system is very corrupted with nepotism, and corrupt people who have no morals nor integrity . YES Money is the root of happiness in Jordan to a certain limit and extent, UNFORTUNATELY.


Yeah most people like you in Jordan because of "Mslaha" or for their own personal gains and underlying benefits, not necessarily for YOU. And in Jordan, people aren't honest always about that from teh beginning. They'll smile in your face, be nice, be you're best friend, and then they ask you for money, and then when they see you don't have any to give, they just throw you away like yesterday's garbage. So that "habit" really bites. We don't really have that kinda thing as often here in the States (but it is still here very much, but I just feel people tend to be more honest and to value integrity more).

It's so hard either way. LIKE I SAID --the only real reason I want to go back is just because I miss my husband, otherwise, after what I went through there, I don't know if I'd ever want to LIVE there again because of all the $H!  T I went through just trying to survive. *And it has NOTHING to do with education, or background, it's alll about WASTA and WHO you know and that is it period. You can be the next Bill Gates, and because you don't have a connection with the Prime Minister, you can forget about ANY Job opportunity unless you meet some pious Muslims who believe in the Day of Judgement( through actions not through lip service and an ID ).

And also another thing I need to add.

In Jordan --some husbands consider it shameful to ask anyone for help when they are going under and struggling to survive. They don't believe in asking for help, or loans or going to charities. They believe that's like a lack of "dignity" or Karaamah. And you know, the wife could be literally dieing, and he still won't ask his own family for ten piasters, if he knows that they will come back and say, "Well we did this and we did that for you..." and they just remind you of all the good they did. So that forces a person to just never ask anyone for help, no matter HOW desperate the situation might get.

Here in the States, you have usually a Catholic Church or a charity that will give a homeless family help, and a room or a shelter, and a soup kitchen, you know, they gather donations for kids' toys and gifts at Christmas time.... you know and over in Jordan, half the kids have never even seen some of the "toys" that kids have here in the states. It's pretty sad. I almost died in Jordan, because of this whole poverty situation, I almost bled to death, but because Fouad had an amazing police friend, he was able to gather up the money to save my life at the emergency room. There are Some GOOD people out there. But they are few, and far between, and GOD Sent...literally.

I believe in Allah (the word GOD in Arabic), and I believe that sometimes, we can only work so hard, and do so much to get what we want, and if God doesn't want it to happen, it won't no matter how hard you try, and even if you gathered an entire nation to do this one thing, and if God doesn't want it , it won't happen. I believe that deeply.

But it's during the hard times, when you feel like there is really no more hope left, that makes it very difficult to remember that fact. SOMETIMES I just lose hope...and that's my weakness in my faith. Unfortunately. So sometimes I see how other people are surviving in and thriving in Jordan, and just get taken away by their patience, and ablity to to persevere for as long as they do and under the circumstances they see everyday.

It's hard to be thankful for the little things when you are so clouded by sadness and despair.

>>>""some husbands consider it shameful to ask anyone for help when they are going under and struggling to survive. They don't believe in asking for help, or loans or going to charities. They believe that's like a lack of "dignity" or Karaamah.<<<

I have to disagree with u in this part 90% of men in Jordan they looking for working wife to support them and help them and trust me they would ask her to borrow money from her family ,or he asks her family for money ,,,He would not ask money from his family but from his wife and HER family ,,,ohh it ok and she should...

The sad thing,they never pay it back and if he was your friend you will lose him for ever if u give him money..

Even if they ask u for money and u say NO ,they will ask u again,if keep saying NO ""they ask why ??Like I have to give him money ??
when they give up u will lose them ..
There is no friends in Jordan..
Maybe you can keep ur childhood and high school friends if u are lucky..


KARAMAH  MY *** THEY WILL SELL THEM SELF FOR MONEY..

ALL OF JORDANIAN MEN I MET ARE REALLY HAPPY THEY ARE MARRIED TO NONE JORDANIAN WOMEN..SO U KNOW IT IS NOT JUST MONEY

Not all Jordanians sell themselves for money. My husband doesn't and never ever would.
But I have seen many who do sell themselves for money--but they live in Jordan, but they are not Jordanians of origin. But not JORDANIANS- the ones that I know. The ones that I know are more dignified then that.

Yeah that's the problem. If you don't pay them back they get mad and angry. You have to try to pay them back some how in some form or another. But I mean the true friends are those that stand by you even when you are poor. Naadher tlaagi insaan, ili 3ando lillah...sa3b.

I agree that many are happy to be married to non-Jordanian women.

But asking a wife for money ect, that's different. But asking for like other Jordanians money, hell no he'd never ever do that unless it was like an emergency.

But what sucks is when you try so so so hard....to just survive, even ALLL the way in the US, life is hard and full time jobs are hard to find.

But I don't think it's as hard as Jordan life though.

That's so true.  My husband's friend married a lady from Indonesia but I don't think she was an ethnic Indonesian because she looked European.  He used the poor lady to build a home in Jordan for his family and kept telling her that they would retire in Jordan so that they should invest in a home there rather than buy a home in the states.  The poor lady lived in a shabby apartment for the duration of their marriage while he built a villa for his family in Jordan. She made 3xs his salary so basically she supported him and his relatives.  When it came time to retire he kept making excuses for not going to Jordan.  He kept telling her the home was not finished and that it wasn't the right time.  It turns out the home had been finished for a couple of years and his family was living in it lavishly.  He then tried to convince her to get her retirement in a lump sum and give it to him to supposedly finish the house.  My husband felt sorry for her and told her the truth so that she wouldn't be cheated out of her retirement.  The poor lady cashed out her retirement without him knowing and went to Denmark to visit her her sister.  Once there she told him she wasn't coming back and all he wanted to know was where was the retirement money.  When he realized that he couldn't take it from her, he divorced her and married a much younger Jordanian woman.  This lady wasted 23 years of her life with someone that only took advantage of her and all along his family believed and still believe to this day that all the money being wired to them and the money for the villa were from their son.  That's what he would tell them.

We have to know there is "KARMA" Do bad and bad things happen to u,Do good and good things happen ...I am sure he is in Hell of life now