Marriage requirements

I am hoping that 6 refers to Vietnam or something. Local vital statistics? In the United States? Japan? That sounds horrific?

you need a crazy test. Maybe that's what vital is.

I think #6 must be in Vietnam. A VN records search implemented through VN bureaucracy. Otherwise, why would they need 4/5? Plus, people don't seem to say it's THAT hard. If one had to get some 30 year search from an office the States I doubt anyone would ever make it to the finish line!

I know that my state (HI) will give a document that states the absence of marriage records so I expect that most others will as well.  By the way, don't have such a document apostilled as it is not recognized in Vietnam.  Simply get the certificates to Vietnam, notarize them at the Embassy or Consulate depending on where you are, and then translated and  certified by the Vietnamese Government.  The US consulate will tell you where to go next.  Certification by Vietnamese Embassy in DC is costly, cumbersome and a waste of time.

I've lived abroad for decades. Before that, lived all over the place. You're saying to get married in VN you need to get a document from some or various Vital Statistic offices in the U.S.? Or, do they accept it from the Foreign country in which you reside? Sounds like hell. I wouldn't know which or where or how to get those. "Simply get those to Vietnam?" Doesn't sound simple. This is a definitive answer?

Have you maintained any legal residency in the US?  Do you have an address, whether through parents, children, or a friendly ex-spouse?  Do you maintain any US bank accounts?  Have you continued to file US taxes as you are legally required to do even though you probably have no tax liability?  If you have any intention of ever moving to the US with your intended spouse you will need to be a US resident as well as a citizen.  There is a distinction which I won't detail here.

If you have a choice, pick a state that will not add your Foreign Income Exclusion back in calculating State taxes.  My state (HI) does, so when I return to Vietnam I may switch to my son's residence in Alaska which has no income tax.

I've no intention of moving to the States. I'm only interested in marriage requirements in VN. Honesty, I haven't maintained much there, even while I realize the legalities. Thanks so much for responding. I'm still unclear about 6. Has anyone done 6 to marry in VN?

Somehow I feel I'm not getting a direct answer here. The people describing the process in this thread have done it? Or are speculating?

I have obtained the document mentioned in item 6 but I was living in my state when I got it.  I went back over my correspondence with the Viet Embassy in DC and found that I sent them the following for certification.

1) Application for Marriage Registration in Vietnam (with photo)
2) Affidavit of Single Status
3) Certificate of No-marriage records from the State of Hawaii
4) Certificate of Good Mental Health
5) Biographic Information Sheet
6) Photocopy of photo and signature pages of my Passport
7) Certificate of Absolute Divorce from the State of Hawaii

The Affidavit of Single Status is a document that you create on a Vietnamese form.  The Certificate of No Marriage Records is created by the State. 

Recently the government changed the work permit requirements.  They used to require only a Vietnamese criminal records check if you had lived in Vietnam more than 6 months.  Now they require both the VN check and a records checks from your home jurisdiction.  This caused problems for a lot of people, Canadians in particular, but I found that you can get a criminal records check from some US states even if you never lived there.   This may sound facetious but you could just pick a state and ask for an affidavit.  I might caution that the basic application asks for your residence address so I guess it probably should match the state on your Certificate of No Marriage.  I doubt that a Vietnamese address would be accepted.

One thing about the Vietnamese mentality and legality is that it distinguishes between temporary residence, where you may be living now, and permanent residence, where you are registered in a House Book (Hộ khẩu) with the government and the Party.  Even though you may not think of the world that way, the guy across the desk does and he can't conceive that you don't have a permanent residence in your own country.  Hence, how could you have a Vietnamese permanent address in his eyes.

Sincerely, if you have any relatives at all in the US, I would suggest that you set up to use their address and maybe get their help in obtaining the requisite document.

@THIGV
Thanks! Hmmm... I've no resources in the States. Haven't been there in decades. Don't really know anyone there anymore. That's not the answer I hoped for. Thanks. Good info. I don't live in VN. But I was interested in marrying there.

I live in Tokyo, btw.

Does Japan consider you a permanent resident under their laws?

Yes. I'm a permanent resident. Hmm... I suppose I can get from Japan. Will they accept it in VN? Simple solution! Thanks!
I wonder if that will work. It will have to be translated from Japanese. I have to question whether the Japanese government will issue it to a resident: probably.
It seems like the paperwork would be very complicated. I just checked and New York will not issue this paper unless you show up in-person.
I don't return to the U.S. Japan might be my only hope.

I don't see why not especially if you can produce some kind of documentation of your Japanese residency.  Your next problem may be "Can the Japanese government produce such a document?"  A lot of Vietnamese women move to other Asian countries to marry but they usually do so as fiancees and marry under the laws of the husband's country.  Somewhere there must be a Japanese who moved to Vietnam to marry but what are the odds he will be reading an English only chat site.  Good luck

Um: I think you can get a document of non-impedament if you are Japanese. However, this only covers the time I've lived here of course. The only reason I suspect it's possible for a resident is that Japan has large communities of non-citizens who have lived here for generations. Therefore, I suspect they must be able to attain such paperwork as well. I hope. But, I don't know. Perhaps Japan would give it to me. The rub is Japan knows it only covers me since I've been here. It's so confusing. I mean the same holds true for New York. You could get a paper of non-impedamence and still have been married in Hawaii.
Perhaps the way to find out is in dribs and drabs. Probably, there is some kind of broker in Vietnam who could tell you what's possible on that end. My local ward office in Tokyo could answer the question on this end.

I mean some professional service in Vietnam probably exists.

Sorry. I made a mistake. I'm not a permanent resident yet. I can apply if I want. I thought it was automatic after ten years but I have to apply.
Hmm...this leaves me in no-man's land. Actually, succeeding in getting permanence is possible but not a given.

Thanks for all the replies. I feel rather discouraged. It's a bleak situation at the moment. Getting the necessary paperwork seems daunting.

One thing you have to learn about Vietnamese bureaucracy is that it does not have to be logical.  The fact that you could have been married 20 years ago in let's say Korea and there are no records in Japan where you have been living for the last 10 really doesn't matter as long as Japan is where you live now.    They just want a paper with some official looking stamps and signatures.  It's even better if the stamps are red.

In fact when I produced  the seven documents that I listed above, the official immediately gave back three of them and said that they were not needed.  Unfortunately, I don't remember which ones they were.      I wouldn't count on that anyway as another thing about Vietnamese officials is that they almost all interpret the laws as they choose.

@THIGV Thanks. I can imagine. I've been in and out of VN the last few years while myself living in an even more paper-happy society. This problem really bothers me though. I'm actually not a permanent resident I realize - of Japan. Maybe I can get something here and maybe some kind of "tea money" can smooth the way there if I have something akin to what the VNese want. It would be nice to hear from other about their experiences to know just how big a problem this is going to be. My GF doesn't worry about things and is very calm. I'm a worrier.

Well...maybe there is no reason why I cannot obtain a document from my ward office stating that I am unmarried in Japan. Perhaps it'll do since U.S. states don't issue "non impediment papers" but only "no record found" documents. Perhaps I can get something similar as a resident (non-permanent). Why not?

Searching the web, I have seen people suggest that they got married in VN without the vital statistics document. That's what baffles me. Unless it's just not true.

VanRoss wrote:

I mean some professional service in Vietnam probably exists.

Sorry I can't help you with #6 as I'm not American. Getting ceremoniously married in Vietnam is the easy part. Getting the official marriage certificate for foreigners is a nightmare.

I asked the lady at the local government office and she called around for marriage service help. They all quoted around $2000 USD.

So I did it myself. Took me 6 months or 20 or so trips back and forth to various offices in and outside the city.  Exactly 1 day before my certificate of marriage impediment and bunch other certificate would have expired. I think it took long because I didn't grease anyone's palm except the crazy doctor that stalked me to outside the crazy ward.

Well. We are not planning to do this tomorrow. I like to know what's ahead of me. In the end, I'd rather pay, even if the price is a little steep, if it'll save me from an tortuous ordeal. I am willing and I'll make inquiries to legal services just to see what they say. I saw someone online say they paid a lawyer 700$ to handle it. They gave the lawyers' contact info. I'll ask. I'm not paying anyone anything for a long time though. Maybe not this year. I'm not in a rush but I don't want horrible surprises. I'd pay even more if it really meant that it was smooth. But who knows if they are legit or not? Most people posting online have done it themselves. The big cities seem harder. If my GF lived in the countryside it might be an easier process...but I don't really know. I don't know VN that well. I've only been going there the last couple of years. I take seriously what people say here about the process though and appreciate the input.

Japanese foreign residents can obtain a document from their local ward office stating that there is no record of marriage in that ward. Whether this will satisfy Vietnamese officials, I don't know . But it's good to know my obscure question is answered.

Sounds like you are good to go.  Don't worry about the language.  I'm sure you can to Japanese to Vietnamese translation in HCMC.

@VanRoss As an option because your right there in Tokyo why not stop by these guys and see what they can offer in the way of advice or assistance:

http://www.vnembassy-jp.org/en/contact-information

I used to live and work in a small place just south of you and 9 years ago when we were ready to retire here they were extremely helpful with a few issues we had. After 19 years of living in Japan I can advise you there  isn't any thing like tea money to get something done. They well provide you what they can legally and end the conversation at that point. Also you need to do a visit in person at the Embassy, phone calls and e-mails weren't their strongest points back then, but maybe things have changed.

Rick

Thanks. Yes. It was very confusing asking them for this paper. I'm not actually getting it now but I needed a translator for the Japanese ward office to ask. At first they refused because they didn't understand what I was asking for. It's an illogical thing, in a way, because it only proves you're not married where you live. The VNese government seems to want more but accept that this is all American municipalities do so hopefully it will suffice for me, an American. Normally, from other countries, they want a non-impediment document, which is unavailable to Americans in America or to foreigners in Japan (because foreigners in Japan have no family registry). I'm guessing the wheels can be greased in some way in VN? I hope so.

I meant in VN. Japan is Japan. Thanks for the link. I've also been here quite a while. In VN, perhaps there is a faster way. I know Japan well. No bending the rules here!
But my ward office can provide the paper. They did have trouble understanding what I wanted since it's a rather unusual request, a document that proves very little.

The document that I got, that was accepted, was a statement that there was no record of any marriage retrospectively for a certain amount of time.  I do not recall how long it was, however I am sure it did not go back to when I was 18.  It was definitely not a non-impediment document.  That would be entirely something else.

Just get whatever the Japanese offer and as Budman1 suggests, take it to the Embassy to translate and certify.  They will be familiar Japanese documents.  Once the Embassy certifies it, no provincial Dept of Justice clerk is going to deny its authenticity (or even care about its contents.)  It will have the blessed  red stamp.

Budman1 is correct to advise you to walk in rather than call.  Vietnamese consulates are terribly unresponsive or even rude over the phone in the US so there is no reason to expect them to be any different in Japan.  Whoever answers the phone may not speak English and their Japanese may not be the best either.  In person they have to be a little more responsive.

VanRoss,
I have read through all of the posts stated here and feel that you do not need to worry too much.

I am British and married a Vietnamese lady here in HCMC.
The concept of marriage here is that the religious ceremony in the church and/or bride's home is the wedding that is recognised by her family. The civil ceremony in the Police Dept. is the legal ceremony stipulated by the government.

I had been away from UK for a great number of years and had no idea of getting documents from UK or anywhere else to support the marriage in Vietnam.

I applied to the British Embassy to have the "Notice of Impending marriage" posted for the regulation 3 weeks.
Apart from passport, house address here in Vietnam etc. the additional documents were:-
A copy of divorce decree or statement to the British Embassy that you were single or legally divorced and similar documents for the Vietnamese lady (translated to English and certified). There is no way for them to know if you had married someone elsewhere in the world. The two declarations signed by both you and your partner are legal statements declaring yourself free to marry. The period of three weeks where the notice of intending marriage is posted are for anyone to raise objections, usually on the grounds that one or other of you are already married. After the three weeks posting this got them to issue a statement of Non Impedence to Marriage which was then translated to Vietnamese.

A visit for both of us to the Mental hospital to certify that we were crazy enogh to get married was obtained and there was enough documentation to reqest a civil marriage with the Police Department here in H.C.M.C. The only difficulty that we experienced was that they wanted extra photocopies of certain documents and those were obtained for a payment of a very small number of dollars.

The whole concept was that I had the idea that if the Vietnamese government raised problems with the paperwork then we would have the religious ceremony performed in Vietnam and that I would take my new "wife" (as in not yet a certified marriage) to Hong Kong and get the civil ceremony there. Once you return to Vietnam the authorities have no reason to refuse to register the marriage in Vietnam. In the end this was not necessary.

Follow your partner's idea and don't worry. She will be able to sweet talk her way around any and all difficulties. If you are present and show worry then more and more difficulties will magically appear that need to be finacially resolved!

@jpbsimpson Thanks for posting a very thorough explanation of your experience. Others in the thread have also been very helpful. This is an issue that probably gets raised in lots of forums but I still think the thread is bound to help others down the road. I'm not going through this process immediately. But I obsess about details so I needed to know something. It sounds like if you have something in the categories they want you can get through the process. Perhaps I'll report back down the line about my experience. @jpbsimpson I'll be rereading your reply. Lots of good details to retain! Thanks all!

@THIGV
Thanks also for your contribution here. These kinds of thread will always be resources for others. So I don't feel too badly about the mundanity!

I don't know VanRoss. First of all, the documents on the US Consulate website are just informational, not legal, because the US isn't marrying you. They could very well be out of date too. You need to review the official Vietnamese government rules for marriage. When I was married in Saigon in December-January, this page was useful for us:

HCMC marriage page

You can hunt for other pages like that. I googled with "hôn nhân nước ngoài ho chi minh" for translation of "foreigner marriage HCMC".
Note that page is dated 2014 so it is now out of date. From January 1 of this year, there were big changes to the law for marriage of foreigners. For example, we rushed to get our application submitted in December at the Federal Ministry of Justice because starting in 2016, marriages are now handled at the local committee level instead. The marriage interview was also dropped as a requirement now.

I signed a bilingual affidavit I got from the US Consulate saying I am divorced and single now (no impediment). Because I was divorced, I had to attach a settlement document (maybe translated, don't remember).  Then we did the silly 2 minute interview at the mental hospital, and the individual interviews at Ministry of Justice which have been dropped. My Vietnamese wife had to verify her marital status, so I think that is the statement #6 that the US Consulate has written ambiguously. She had to gather other papers too.
We used a lawyer for a couple reasons, maybe didn't need to but glad we did. Reduced a lot of stress. I suggest you dig up the current requirements in the city where you will marry, and talk to someone who has gotten married in 2016 using the new law. Optionally talk to a Vietnamese lawyer who has actually gotten couples married under the new law.

@GOBOT
That's very helpful. I talked to a lawyer who also conveyed information that sounded different. This records document does, indeed, at the moment, seem to be unnecessary.
I'm not sure about the lawyer I spoke to.
I think your advice/information is very sound and I am very interested in, when the time comes, paying to have someone facilitate this process for me.
Your idea is what I am thinking.
I just joined this site so I don't know if there is PM here? If so, could you maybe PM your lawyer information?
Unless the rules allow a link here?
I'd appreciate it.
Thanks for a very helpful post.

jpbsimpson wrote:

VanRoss,
I have read through all of the posts stated here and feel that you do not need to worry too much.

I am British and married a Vietnamese lady here in HCMC.
The concept of marriage here is that the religious ceremony in the church and/or bride's home is the wedding that is recognised by her family. The civil ceremony in the Police Dept. is the legal ceremony stipulated by the government.

I had been away from UK for a great number of years and had no idea of getting documents from UK or anywhere else to support the marriage in Vietnam.

I applied to the British Embassy to have the "Notice of Impending marriage" posted for the regulation 3 weeks.
Apart from passport, house address here in Vietnam etc. the additional documents were:-
A copy of divorce decree or statement to the British Embassy that you were single or legally divorced and similar documents for the Vietnamese lady (translated to English and certified). There is no way for them to know if you had married someone elsewhere in the world. The two declarations signed by both you and your partner are legal statements declaring yourself free to marry. The period of three weeks where the notice of intending marriage is posted are for anyone to raise objections, usually on the grounds that one or other of you are already married. After the three weeks posting this got them to issue a statement of Non Impedence to Marriage which was then translated to Vietnamese.

A visit for both of us to the Mental hospital to certify that we were crazy enogh to get married was obtained and there was enough documentation to reqest a civil marriage with the Police Department here in H.C.M.C. The only difficulty that we experienced was that they wanted extra photocopies of certain documents and those were obtained for a payment of a very small number of dollars.

The whole concept was that I had the idea that if the Vietnamese government raised problems with the paperwork then we would have the religious ceremony performed in Vietnam and that I would take my new "wife" (as in not yet a certified marriage) to Hong Kong and get the civil ceremony there. Once you return to Vietnam the authorities have no reason to refuse to register the marriage in Vietnam. In the end this was not necessary.

Follow your partner's idea and don't worry. She will be able to sweet talk her way around any and all difficulties. If you are present and show worry then more and more difficulties will magically appear that need to be finacially resolved!

Just about spot on.

I got married to a Vietnamese lady just under 2 years ago and while the paperwork seems daunting, in fact if you do it step by step it isn't really difficult. In our case we had to visit the town where her birth was registered, first time to deliver the paperwork and be interviewed at the Dept of Womens Affairs and a second time to sign the papers that made us man and wife, under a big banner that says Marriage to Foreigner. The bloke who officiated at our marriage asked me why I had been married twice before and my answer that I like wedding cake was duly noted.

It will help if you make a list of things you need to do in chronological order - my g/f made a small spread sheet up in Excel - and with time limits as IIRC some documents have to be  submitted within three months of their initiation date. 

If you need photocopies of documents for the various departments, there is usually a photocopier in an adjacent room or building which will do the copies for around 1000 Dong a sheet.

Whilst it all seems a bit bureaucratic, in fact the various Vietnamese official departments you have to deal with a pretty efficient and some of them even have free wifi so you can surf whilst waiting your turn.

The worst official departments we dealt with was the British Embassy and Consulate. I had to have my Decree Absolute notarised at the Consulate, but first I had to send the document to the British embassy in Hanoi. The Embassy website which has the instructions wasn't clear on one point, so I sent an email requesting clarification. I received a curt response some days later to the effect that the info I needed was on the website.

I filled in a form and sent it with my Decree and payment to the embassy and received an email giving me an appointment to attend the Consulate to have my Decree notarised. There was a terse warning about not being late for the appointment and the email also said that the appointment would be confirmed 7 days before the appointment date which was set for 21 days later.

The confirmation of appointment email arrived 2 weeks after the appointment.

We duly turned up at the consulate 5 minutes before time on the appointment date to find that there was only one person behind the counter,  a Vietnamese girl whose English was very poor. She told us to wait, as she was busy.

After an hour or so I asked her to attend to us as all she seemed to be doing was shuffling paper about. She took my documents and disappeared upstairs. Ten minutes later she came back and asked what it was that I wanted. The next hour was a farce of the girl running up and down stairs with questions which we couldn't understand so in the end my wife acted as translator. Eventually after 2 and a half hours the girl came downstairs and said that the document couldn't be notarised as it was not an original document. I told her it was. She went upstairs, came down again and said it wasn't. After playing argument tennis with some faceless Richardhead upstairs, it transpired that "the Decree should have a red stamp not a black stamp".

There was now a danger that the faceless moron upstairs would bugger off for lunch and we would have to do the whole farce again including paying another fee.

I told the girl to tell the pillock upstairs that Decrees Absolute had red stamps up until December (IIRC) 2013 after which they were black stamps. This fact he could easily check by using a piece of technology called a computer linked to a mysterious thing called the internet by means of which a magic spell called GOOGLE would get the required confirmation.

3 and a half hours it took to get a bloody stamp from some faceless burk who was too self important to unscrew his backside from his chair and walk down a flight of stairs to deal with the matter. I kid you not!

Anyway, good luck with it, it seems daunting but just do it step by step and let your lady do most of the talking.

Go to Thailand and do the whole process in a week, come back and have your marriage certificate translated. Much easier than the system here in VN which is slow and cumbersome.

Has anyone done that? Sounds too easy! It would be great to have the Vegas style option!