Environmental protection in Vietnam

At first sight there doesn't seem to be much in the way of environmental concern in Vietnam - at least among the general public. Refuse is dumped everywhere and particularly in rivers and on waste ground.

However if you go out before dawn you may see ladies on bicycles overloaded with card and paper, or plastic bottles, or aluminum cans. These scavengers are people presumably living on the edge of poverty, who make a living out of everyone else's refuse.

Where we live the estate management put out refuse bins for general use - there is no segregation of plastic, paper, glass and metal. The sorting and collection of these items is done by the scavengers rummaging through the bins - which can't be healthy for them. In fact it was only after strenuous efforts (several complaints to the estate management by multiple people over several weeks) that they started to wash the refuse bins every day.

We don't dare leave anything such as cardboard, plastic etc outside our house as it will invariably disappear during the early hours.

We save our beer and soft drinks cans and give them to the old lady who collects them  and who always gives us a toothless grin as thanks - she'll doubtless be over the moon when we give her our old heavy duty aluminium frying pan!

The government here has voiced concerns about environmental matters, but they have a way to go before that is translated into action by the less well educated people, which is a large slice of the population, education being the key.

Having said that, recycling goes on all the time - if there is a penny to be made, the Vietnamese will find a way, being very industrious people.

The Vietnamese attitude to conservation is, "If it moves, eat it. If it grows, chop it down."

Both children and adults kill birds for fun, marine park rangers evict scuba divers from Nha Trang Marine Park so that fishermen can use explosives to catch fish, forest rangers look the other way while illegal loggers cut down the forests, the government over exploits the forests, senior officers who are supposed to be protecting the wildlife get caught with a car full of bear meat, village officials sell of national park land to developers, the director of a province forestry department illegally cuts down every mahogany tree in the province,  and the list goes on. These are stories reported to me and reports I have read in VN language newspapers.

Vietnamese leave rubbish everywhere they go. They find a beautiful picnic spot and turn it into a rubbish pit. I used to enjoy taking visitors to Suối Đá Giang in Khánh Hòa province, but can no longer do so, because the banks stink from the piles of rubbish left behind.  As my daughter says to her Vietnamese relatives, "Australia is MUCH cleaner than Vietnam!"

Vietnamese authorities continue to built outdated, inefficient, Chinese coal burning power stations, which are huge polluters of the environment, leaving thousands of tonnes of ash behind each year.

Saigon seems to be one of the few cities seriously tackling pollution with the help of foreign finance. Polluting industries are being relocated outside city to industrial estates , which are supposed to have proper waste management, illegal slums built over canals are being demolished and the residents relocated, the city's canals are being dredged to remove toxic mud and rubbish, clean up teams collect rubbish from the rivers and canals daily, and fish are being bred to release into the rivers and canals. Yes, there still is a long way to go, but the results so far have been excellent.

Expats in Vietnam,!!
Typically wanting to tell the people how to do things in there country
So it resembles something like home.

..and we continue to evolve...   

No doubt that the Universe is unfolding as it should.                 

fredaussie wrote:

Expats in Vietnam,!!
Typically wanting to tell the people how to do things in there country
So it resembles something like home.

So you have a problem with people trying to improve the environment and thus their health and that of their children?

I was thinking you would be the first to reply with something like that.
Have read a lot of your dribble here before.
NO. I dont have a problem with it.
Just that i know it is a waste of time and energy to dwell on it.
Maybe is easier to charter a plane,,, pack all those things up that u say that can not live without in VN
And return home.
Hand full of people trying to change the ways of 90+ million!!! GET REAL

Hi there! Im helping with a new anti-littering association called Keep Vietnam Clean & Green. We host monthly community clean-ups in Saigon, Phu Quoc, and Hoi An. We also work with local businesses to help them give back to the community and also give their employees a team-building day tidying up a spot meaningful to them. We're currently working on improving our education programs as well, since the litter issue can really be tackled by educating the youth about the problem.

We also teamed up with an older organization, Green Ribbon, to make more of an impact. The Green Ribbon is a symbol of an anti-litter pledge. We hand these out for people to tie on their backpack or motorbike.



Thanks!

often  it seems  that  as you say dumping 💩 💩💩 everywhere is a big issue...when i  moved ti  Da Nang  from  Hanoi it  was keep very clean  we had  the other president that was focused on the betterment of the City and its people. Hes dead now so i see  Da nang is  going down simular  to  hn hcm gov only concerned  how to make n get money not help n build up the city or its people n focusing on how to improve it daily. ... I hope we can  make a difference.Lets  make the  world a better place..A.L.O...

In my daily life, I use a reverse osmosis  water filtration system that saves plastic bottles and ensures clean water.  I often pick up something when walking to or from a gym and I am careful about throwing my own garbage in appropriate places/bins.

As stated previously, the garbage is generally well picked over by less fortunate but none-the-less people willing to work so recycling is done even though not really encouraged by the government.

fredaussie wrote:

I was thinking you would be the first to reply with something like that.
Have read a lot of your dribble here before.
NO. I dont have a problem with it.
Just that i know it is a waste of time and energy to dwell on it.
Maybe is easier to charter a plane,,, pack all those things up that u say that can not live without in VN
And return home.
Hand full of people trying to change the ways of 90+ million!!! GET REAL

You are obviously troubled in some way. Have you fallen off the wagon again and the cheap vodka is talking?

Or would you like the contact details of the psychiatric hospital in Saigon?

eodmatt wrote:

fredaussie wrote:

I was thinking you would be the first to reply with something like that.
Have read a lot of your dribble here before.
NO. I dont have a problem with it.
Just that i know it is a waste of time and energy to dwell on it.
Maybe is easier to charter a plane,,, pack all those things up that u say that can not live without in VN
And return home.
Hand full of people trying to change the ways of 90+ million!!! GET REAL

You are obviously troubled in some way. Have you fallen off the wagon again and the cheap vodka is talking?

Or would you like the contact details of the psychiatric hospital in Saigon?

Idiot.

I live on a private estate where the residents are 95% Vietnamese. There is little, very little littering and domestic refuse is picked up every day. Of course the residents pay for the service and there is the key.

All of the householders here are educated, are in employment and are able to pay for the refuse collection service as well as not wanting to sully their environment.

Educate the people .....

fredaussie wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

fredaussie wrote:

I was thinking you would be the first to reply with something like that.
Have read a lot of your dribble here before.
NO. I dont have a problem with it.
Just that i know it is a waste of time and energy to dwell on it.
Maybe is easier to charter a plane,,, pack all those things up that u say that can not live without in VN
And return home.
Hand full of people trying to change the ways of 90+ million!!! GET REAL

You are obviously troubled in some way. Have you fallen off the wagon again and the cheap vodka is talking?

Or would you like the contact details of the psychiatric hospital in Saigon?

Idiot.

Indeed you are and an uneducated one at that - a monosynaptic cretin in fact!

Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem.  Desmond Tutu.

..and Ivan Petrovich Pavlov won the Nobel Prize for his studies of the digestive system which remain valid to this day.   The true function of saliva.   Dogs dribble profusely when they think they are about to be fed, so by ringing a bell when meat was about to be given, Ivan collected without the mess.    The bell tolls for thee...

S - R theory (Stimulus - Response)  became human associative learning, so the many jokes about Pavlov's dogs stay with us even today.   ..and who can resist a good joke..?

The Chinese proverb about barking dogs making a lot of noise without saying anything valuable was equally covered by Shakespeare's idiot in Macbeth: A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...      I guess I'm suggesting we don't teach a dog not to bark by biting it.

As for the pollution, yes, it is an integral part of materialistic capitalism.   But even in the (too short) time I spent in the Old Quarter of Hanoi, I saw many Vietnamese shops washing their footpaths  (burning combustibles is another story) and generally improving their quality of life without needing to be told.

Cause and consequence needs a catalyst, just as a match starts a fire (or a fuse?)   So if we lead by example, others copy the good and ignore the bad.   Vietnamese people have the advantage of learning from 'European' mistakes (sorry: lessons..)  and (eventually?) do it a bit better.   Time cures all things.

As for a few influencing the many, think exponentially.  It only takes that one snowflake in the wrong place at the right time to begin the avalanche.  We won't mention the beating of the Butterfly wings...

..can I have my 2 cents now, or will you bite me too..?               

Looking at blog under review

It's an important issue that those from developing countries with disposable income have the luxury to dwell on.

For most Vietnamese there are more pressing concerns--namely food and shelter.

It will take time to educate the populace to recycle, not burn garbage, etc, and when it starts to become common practice,  Vietnam will no longer be developing country and economic haven for expats.

Well said.
Few times in my life i have been hungry or no shelter the enviroment has not even entered my mind!!
Quiet obviously some other people can not grasp the circumstances that some people live under.
Possibly to let go of there western ways end experiance what others endure on a daily basis would be enough to let them see things from a different angle.

I've been poor and homeless too. But my education showed me that crapping in the street was not a good thing to do.

I don't accept that an emerging nation with a refuse problem should be left to get on with it because they have more pressing needs any more than I accept that babies born with congenital  defects should be th thrown outside to die.

As I keep saying education - at all levels of society including political is the key.

Furthermore I don't accept  that the population of Vietnam is so impoverished  that the refuse problem can't be addressed. In fact in many places the Peoples Committees are addressing the  problem and the results can be seen by anyone who gets out of bed early enough.

Processing of refuse is another matter and is another area where improvements can be made.

One of the things I noticed here is the improvement in water supply.  It's happening slowly but it is happening.

The American war set this country  back half a century. Perhaps if the Australians and Americans  spent as much money in reconstruction here as they did in bombing the country  the Vietnamese wouldn't  be so impoverished that refuse,  filth and unhealthy living conditions  wouldn't be as endemic as  some dogooders would like to force people to live in.

As for Vietnam being an expat haven yeah it's so lush that we cant go anywhere else

Rubbish Collection: For the last 8 mths they have had wheely bins spaced along the street at the front of my Mekong house, so it easy to go out and place rubbish into the bins. I initially had difficulty in stopping the in-laws from throwing the rubbish into the canal at the back of the house. My HCMC house has daily rubbish collection and street cleaning.

Cooking: When one fast growing Tropical Almond tree can provide ongoing fuel free of charge each year for one household it is difficult to have the locals change to expensive gas bottles that can run out of fuel un-expectantly. Initially, I had a bladder that the pig pens were cleaned into which produced methane gas for cooking (I had this removed because I had young children and wasn't convinced of its safety and I removed the pig pens and built a small guest house instead.

Re-cycling: Recyclers roam the streets. I have large bins for plastics and cardboard that I sell when full, I use a regular recycler who gives a few extra Dong as sole trader.

Sanitation: HCMC has a standard westernised sanitation system, I'm talking about the street urination that the guys do. The Mekong has septic tanks (which I have installed). A few people flush straight into the canals and river, mainly those living on boats but the waste is removed through the two tidal flows each day. Most people in the villages use a communal fishing pond to defecate into. This is recycled by the fish and the fish are eaten by the pond owners or sold at market and no one gets sick (I should mention I'm not a fish eater).

Alternate Power: A solar factory is located at Long An but I'm still to confirm if they sell locally or it is all export market. Solar and wind power have been trialled in Vietnam previously in remote areas.

Gasifiers: As a writer for a Prepper Forum (what happens when the systems breakdown) I have a pre-gasifier (that is a bio fuel burner at a high temp and almost turns the burn to a gas) and will be making a better gasifier that will burn everything to produce a gas for cooking. I do a lot of Permaculture and have a a friend that has a Permaculture business in the Philippines. A Dr Paul Oliver, in Dalat, has free designs on two websites for pig pens, gasifiers ect.

I live in the Thu Duc district of Saigon which is basically the working class people and yes people do throw their trash everywhere but their is an old lady that lives just around the corner from me that goes around the neighborhood and collects all of the paper and cardboard and plastic bottles and most of the people that live on my street make sure that they recycle everything. It's an ongoing problem that will take years to correct though

I'm sure Ghandi didn't balk at the challenge he faced against the British Colonial Government when he wanted to change India; Neslon Mandela was only one man with a few supporters; ignoring it, or placing it in the "expats trying to change the Vietnamese people's lifestyles / habits" such as littering, polluting, etc., doesn't deserve knocking it. No-one said it would be easy!
Change starts when we take on the challenges not by walking past them. The world isn't flat and someone had the insane idea to take on the whole world to prove it!

I live in rural Dong Thap Province, and the local school has a monthly 'bring cans to school day"  each student has to bring 10 aluminum cans to school with them to be recycled.  two weeks ago, the neighbors saw me raking the years of plastic bags of garbage from by ppty along the River (very low water)  I am the only foreigner in the area.  He asked to borrow my rake (I had made) a couple days later, and he raked his waterfront area.  One by One.  Lead by example.

RalphinNhaTrang - no where in your rant did I read you picking up after yourself, to trying to clean the picnic area you liked so much.  ou should try it.

DavidMJW wrote:

I'm sure Ghandi didn't balk at the challenge he faced against the British Colonial Government when he wanted to change India; Neslon Mandela was only one man with a few supporters; ignoring it, or placing it in the "expats trying to change the Vietnamese people's lifestyles / habits" such as littering, polluting, etc., doesn't deserve knocking it. No-one said it would be easy!
Change starts when we take on the challenges not by walking past them. The world isn't flat and someone had the insane idea to take on the whole world to prove it!

And despite Ghandi and his success against British Colonial Imperialism. Large numbers of Indians in Delhi and elsewhere regrettably still use the streets as toilets. I didn't see the same in South Africa, so maybe Nelson Mandela had a better handle on freedom.

Bazza139 wrote:

Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem.  Desmond Tutu.

..and Ivan Petrovich Pavlov won the Nobel Prize for his studies of the digestive system which remain valid to this day.   The true function of saliva.   Dogs dribble profusely when they think they are about to be fed, so by ringing a bell when meat was about to be given, Ivan collected without the mess.    The bell tolls for thee...

S - R theory (Stimulus - Response)  became human associative learning, so the many jokes about Pavlov's dogs stay with us even today.   ..and who can resist a good joke..?

The Chinese proverb about barking dogs making a lot of noise without saying anything valuable was equally covered by Shakespeare's idiot in Macbeth: A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...      I guess I'm suggesting we don't teach a dog not to bark by biting it.

As for the pollution, yes, it is an integral part of materialistic capitalism.   But even in the (too short) time I spent in the Old Quarter of Hanoi, I saw many Vietnamese shops washing their footpaths  (burning combustibles is another story) and generally improving their quality of life without needing to be told.

Cause and consequence needs a catalyst, just as a match starts a fire (or a fuse?)   So if we lead by example, others copy the good and ignore the bad.   Vietnamese people have the advantage of learning from 'European' mistakes (sorry: lessons..)  and (eventually?) do it a bit better.   Time cures all things.

As for a few influencing the many, think exponentially.  It only takes that one snowflake in the wrong place at the right time to begin the avalanche.  We won't mention the beating of the Butterfly wings...

..can I have my 2 cents now, or will you bite me too..?               

Speaking of "barking"........ 

I would have thought the Indians had the upper hand on freedom in regards to toilets.....
Can do it wherever they see fit to.
The South Africans may have suffered consequences of doing this previously.
So hence not as much freedom.
But try and explain that to an idiot!

fredaussie wrote:

I would have thought the Indians had the upper hand on freedom in regards to toilets.....
Can do it wherever they see fit to.
The South Africans may have suffered consequences of doing this previously.
So hence not as much freedom.
But try and explain that to an idiot!

mmmmm.... maybe my point was in response to the negative comments that say it will never happen and just accept it!

The earth is still round after all!!

DavidMJW wrote:

I'm sure Ghandi didn't balk at the challenge he faced against the British Colonial Government when he wanted to change India; Neslon Mandela was only one man with a few supporters; ignoring it, or placing it in the "expats trying to change the Vietnamese people's lifestyles / habits" such as littering, polluting, etc., doesn't deserve knocking it. No-one said it would be easy!
Change starts when we take on the challenges not by walking past them. The world isn't flat and someone had the insane idea to take on the whole world to prove it!

" The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world's problems "    - Mahatma Gandhi.

Don't Bother, David.   As a newcomer, please read the previous posts to see we are far better at bickering than actually providing constructive criticism.     Not me, naturally...       

  Oh, and the smaller the trivia, the bigger the problem...

I think his most relevant quote was about changing the world by beginning with ourselves.   Sadly, we are most idealistic while we are resting.  I'm guilty of that too.   Education is the most effective way, and there are plenty of avatars and messiahs for us all to copy the examples.   Meanwhile, back in the rubbish, we see the start of recycling and Vietnamese people are well placed to learn from the West's mistakes.   Not as silly as us..?

Expectations always exceed, but once the infrastructure is installed, I'm equally certain it will be utilised because observations show that the larger majority of people would rather be clean AFTER the survival ethic has been solved.   Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, and all that...

Still, serendipity ensures there is the odd gem (of info.) in amongst the rubbish.   Keep reading...

fredaussie wrote:

Expats in Vietnam,!!
Typically wanting to tell the people how to do things in there country
So it resembles something like home.

This make me lol. How true. The expectation at home is, love it or leave it. Imagine if the Vietnamese people had this attitude.

The viets have been closed off to the world for decades, what are we to expect? Cleanliness like Singapore? Laws and regulations have a hard time keeping up with the fast development pace. It's all about money at the end of it all.

In answer to TunnelRat regarding my "rant".  Yes, my friends and I, including Vietnamese friends, used to do our bit to clean up the bank at Suoi Da Giang, but as the place has become more and more popular it is just too big a job these days to clean up the mountains of rubbish that is left behind.

cossmo wrote:

fredaussie wrote:

Expats in Vietnam,!!
Typically wanting to tell the people how to do things in there country
So it resembles something like home.

This make me lol. How true. The expectation at home is, love it or leave it. Imagine if the Vietnamese people had this attitude.

The viets have been closed off to the world for decades, what are we to expect? Cleanliness like Singapore? Laws and regulations have a hard time keeping up with the fast development pace. It's all about money at the end of it all.

Your "LOLing reeks of hypocrisy. So, which decades have the "Viets" been closed off to the world for? Do you refer to the decades of French colonial occupation? Or do you refer to the period when certain super powers made it their business to "Bomb Vietnam Back Into The Stone Age?' Or are you referring to the period between then end of the American war - when the western warmongers walked away from the brutal  damage they had done for no reason -  and year 2000 (Western calendar) when the country struggled to get back onto its feet.

Now you advocate walking away from it all saying that the people are too poor to care, so they should be left to wallow in poverty simply because in your view it is wrong to help people to combat disease and poverty in their own country.

And, having tried to "Bomb Vietnam Back Into The Stone Age", You now advocate not helping them to recover by assisting them to have a clean environment - rather, you would prefer to let them struggle on their own, so that you can arrogantly assume that they are too poor to be troubled by matters of hygiene.

Your attitude and that displayed by the incoherent  fredaussie, is typical of that displayed by those who have come to be known the world over as "yoghurt knitters" - those who take vicarious pleasure the misfortune of those poorer, less fortunate and less well educated than themselves, whilst wringing their hands and pretending that nothing can be done for them, all the whilst faking concern but belittling others who try to help

Shame on you.

Try reading a book called Lords of Poverty by Graham Hancock.

Again, well said Matt

It is far easier to pretend to care than get off the bum and actually do (anything) to make a difference.

But not al of us have the 'blind eyes and deaf ears' of Hexagram 21, line 4 of the I Ching, looking at cause and consequence.    Viet Nam knows, and needs practical help, not the noble words and paper promises we all see so much of.       Viva la Viet Nam

eodmatt wrote:

cossmo wrote:

fredaussie wrote:

Expats in Vietnam,!!
Typically wanting to tell the people how to do things in there country
So it resembles something like home.

This make me lol. How true. The expectation at home is, love it or leave it. Imagine if the Vietnamese people had this attitude.

The viets have been closed off to the world for decades, what are we to expect? Cleanliness like Singapore? Laws and regulations have a hard time keeping up with the fast development pace. It's all about money at the end of it all.

Your "LOLing reeks of hypocrisy. So, which decades have the "Viets" been closed off to the world for? Do you refer to the decades of French colonial occupation? Or do you refer to the period when certain super powers made it their business to "Bomb Vietnam Back Into The Stone Age?' Or are you referring to the period between then end of the American war - when the western warmongers walked away from the brutal  damage they had done for no reason -  and year 2000 (Western calendar) when the country struggled to get back onto its feet.

Now you advocate walking away from it all saying that the people are too poor to care, so they should be left to wallow in poverty simply because in your view it is wrong to help people to combat disease and poverty in their own country.

And, having tried to "Bomb Vietnam Back Into The Stone Age", You now advocate not helping them to recover by assisting them to have a clean environment - rather, you would prefer to let them struggle on their own, so that you can arrogantly assume that they are too poor to be troubled by matters of hygiene.

Your attitude and that displayed by the incoherent  fredaussie, is typical of that displayed by those who have come to be known the world over as "yoghurt knitters" - those who take vicarious pleasure the misfortune of those poorer, less fortunate and less well educated than themselves, whilst wringing their hands and pretending that nothing can be done for them, all the whilst faking concern but belittling others who try to help

Shame on you.

Try reading a book called Lords of Poverty by Graham Hancock.

woah. I said all that? I actually didn't advocate anything and neither did I spoke about poor people or mentioned about actions. why don't you get your facts right first before you blab on about what others think. the only one advocating is you. on your computer chair. in an expat forum. whilst sipping your tra da. proclaiming you are well educated. that's top mate, congratulations.

Bazza, appreciate your input.

Fortunately I take the negatives and the sit on the fence comments like water on a ducks back.... I've been in Asia a long time, and while I may have only signed up on this website recently, i had to at least chip in my twopence worth on the subject, more in the way of - let's not give up; let's not think we are better, but let's make sure we also don't shirk from our responsibilities, to maintain our own backyard, irrespective if it's not our "natural home" location.

I do the same when I ride my bike - subtle hints to other drivers about the mirrors, indicators and using mobile phones or cutting off traffic flow. My partner (VN) says I'm wasting my time. I prefer to think I'm not going to just give up and accept something that can be fixed, even if it takes a 100 years or more.

Semi-formal education starts with kindergarten, progresses through primary, junior, high school and maybe on to college and university; I am only a kindergarten teacher and learning to crawl is as important as winning the 100m sprint!

cossmo wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

cossmo wrote:

This make me lol. How true. The expectation at home is, love it or leave it. Imagine if the Vietnamese people had this attitude.

The viets have been closed off to the world for decades, what are we to expect? Cleanliness like Singapore? Laws and regulations have a hard time keeping up with the fast development pace. It's all about money at the end of it all.

Your "LOLing reeks of hypocrisy. So, which decades have the "Viets" been closed off to the world for? Do you refer to the decades of French colonial occupation? Or do you refer to the period when certain super powers made it their business to "Bomb Vietnam Back Into The Stone Age?' Or are you referring to the period between then end of the American war - when the western warmongers walked away from the brutal  damage they had done for no reason -  and year 2000 (Western calendar) when the country struggled to get back onto its feet.

Now you advocate walking away from it all saying that the people are too poor to care, so they should be left to wallow in poverty simply because in your view it is wrong to help people to combat disease and poverty in their own country.

And, having tried to "Bomb Vietnam Back Into The Stone Age", You now advocate not helping them to recover by assisting them to have a clean environment - rather, you would prefer to let them struggle on their own, so that you can arrogantly assume that they are too poor to be troubled by matters of hygiene.

Your attitude and that displayed by the incoherent  fredaussie, is typical of that displayed by those who have come to be known the world over as "yoghurt knitters" - those who take vicarious pleasure the misfortune of those poorer, less fortunate and less well educated than themselves, whilst wringing their hands and pretending that nothing can be done for them, all the whilst faking concern but belittling others who try to help

Shame on you.

Try reading a book called Lords of Poverty by Graham Hancock.

woah. I said all that? I actually didn't advocate anything and neither did I spoke about poor people or mentioned about actions. why don't you get your facts right first before you blab on about what others think. the only one advocating is you. on your computer chair. in an expat forum. whilst sipping your tra da. proclaiming you are well educated. that's top mate, congratulations.

Thanks. Now try reading that which you write  - even better try thinking before you write it. "LOL"

Better than Good.  Excellent!

..only a kindergarten teacher..?   Watch the video of 'Harlow's Monkeys'  (compulsory for 1st yr Uni psych. students of developmental psychology)  to see the full effect of deprivation of stimuli.

And Yes, we must learn to crawl before we walk.  Giving people the tools (not money) to allow them to 'Sort it Out to suit Their Self' is the best way to help.  Even constructive criticism is (invariably) rejected because of the inferred incompetence.    Of which Vietnamese people are definitely not.

Aid from the bottom up is helpful.  Aid from the top (Agencies, etc.) are worse than useless, pointed out in the (too many?) books on the subject.   (Lords of Poverty, White Man's Burden, Dead Aid, etc)

That you prefer to think is obvious.   Keep up the good work.   Yes, they DO notice...         

DavidMJW wrote:

Bazza, appreciate your input.

Fortunately I take the negatives and the sit on the fence comments like water on a ducks back.... I've been in Asia a long time, and while I may have only signed up on this website recently, i had to at least chip in my twopence worth on the subject, more in the way of - let's not give up; let's not think we are better, but let's make sure we also don't shirk from our responsibilities, to maintain our own backyard, irrespective if it's not our "natural home" location.

I do the same when I ride my bike - subtle hints to other drivers about the mirrors, indicators and using mobile phones or cutting off traffic flow. My partner (VN) says I'm wasting my time. I prefer to think I'm not going to just give up and accept something that can be fixed, even if it takes a 100 years or more.

Semi-formal education starts with kindergarten, progresses through primary, junior, high school and maybe on to college and university; I am only a kindergarten teacher and learning to crawl is as important as winning the 100m sprint!

Oddly enough, my wife (also Vn) takes a different view to your wife's and says that if you say nothing or do nothing, when you could do or say something then you are complicit. She has the right to say whatever she wants being Vn and she does too. Bit different for me as a foreigner, I can't really say anything - my Vietnamese is not good enough yet anyway -  but I will just pick up stuff and put it in the nearest bin if someone is being careless. It's surprising how it rubs off on people too.