Making it on a budget in PR

We spend a month in our house in PR this past Christmas. We build the house based on utilizing more of the Caribbean breeze, open floor plan concept and big bay windows. All appliances are high efficiency, light are all LEDs. A/C usage is limited to night use and we installed an high SER ratting unit. We installed solar lights for outdoor areas and a water collection system to help with irritation. We decided to live as my family lives to see if we could make it on a modest budget.

In the month we spend there our daily expenses for that time:

Electric $43
Water $13
Food $300
Internet $32
Cell $120
Propane $100
Gas $120
Misc $100

Total $828

Based on this, we are very confident $2K/month will be more than plenty to retire.

Great new thread, Rey!  I'm on board with the food expenses...can't say for the rest as we don't live there yet.  We're coming for 4 weeks and fix all our meals in, buying from vendors, no dairy products, no chicken but fish (hoping hubby can catch some).

Excellent adlin20, but one item you forgot to mention is that the propane will last you around 6-10 months depending on use, so monthly would be about 15 for propane depending on use  which is lower than electricity use for cooking.

Medical is another item that varies a lot based on your income and age, it could be 500 per person a month down to 0 plus meds. It is likely that medical will be lower in the island than in the states as doctors and hospitals are cheaper, so you are not likely to pay more than what you pay now. So that is a plus but should be considered in your budget.

Schuttzie wrote:

Great new thread, Rey!  I'm on board with the food expenses...can't say for the rest as we don't live there yet.  We're coming for 4 weeks and fix all our meals in, buying from vendors, no dairy products, no chicken but fish (hoping hubby can catch some).

Fish available in rivers lakes and obviously the sea, have a nice high efficiency freezer for those days you come home empty handed and a fish story of the one that got away.

Definitely, Rey

Go to the local fish market "pescaderia" wait for the fishermen and make friends with them. You will be surprised how much you can get with little money. Most of them will be glad to make a quick sale and not have to wsit. Specially if you're going to buy regularly.

Adlin,

I am very curious, with whom are you getting internet @$32 a month? I would love to be paying that! The cheapest I have found is around $60. Thanks-Karen

MiClaro. $32/month 2mg

Ah, Claro is dismal for us here. Do you mean 2 mbps in download speed or 2 gigs in data usage?

Download speed. That is enough for download movies, work and monitor my house from my cell. Unlimited data.

Stay away from Claro they are horrible we had no choice in arecibo but to get them. The speed way horrible. We lost internet all the time .One time we were without for a month I called them every day. When we moved from arecibo to Rincon .I called to cancel the service they told us we had to go to the main office. We finally made it to the office a month later. They wouldn't accept the box unless we paid everything in full.  We haven't used claro in months and they keep sending us a bill charging us monthly for services we didn't use and they wouldn't let us cancel until we paid them everything in adavance to return the box. As if now I have a $400 bill with they .Which I am refusing to pay due to unethical business practices.  Please you choice cable they are the best.  We get speed of 20 for $47 a month.  We also had choice in cabo rojo

Depending where you live, you may not have the option of using choice. You get what you can, bad or not. There are also Satellite Internet services but I have no idea if there are any good and likely pricey.

There are business with WIFI in some areas, but you will spend a fortune to park there for the day as they would expect you to purchase something.

When people post their budgets, I'd also be interested to know the size of their family. For example, if you spend $300 a month on food, is that for yourself only or do you have multiple family members?

What town do you live in?

Currently living in Massachusetts at the moment, but plan to move to Ceiba on the east coast of PR.

We would be a family of 2, enclosed are my estimated expenses. Large Medical since wife is in her 50;s and I am in my 60;s but not yet on Medicare. Also my numbers reflect large Electric and some extra water because I will be running a pool about 8 hours a day. We are in Adkins diet so we have a large meat bill.Cell and Cable TV and or Internet is very variable depending on the package you pick. I been told that $300 for groceries for 2 people is fairly common, mine is higher.

Category                                   Ext. Expenses
Car Payment                              $0.00
Car Insurance                            $30.00
Entertainment                          $150.00
Groceries                          $400.00
Mortgage     or  Rent                    $0.00
Property Tax                            $20.00
Home Insurance                   $20.00
Medical                                 $800.00
Pharmacy                           $50.00
Electricity                                 $200.00
Water                                   $45.00
Propane                                   $18.00
Gasoline                                 $100.00
Cable/Internet                           $70.00
Cell Phone                         $120.00
Other                                   $50.00
Total Expenses               $2073.00

It would be interesting if others would use the above template with their own numbers, it is fairly complete I think.

For us Claro was the only option at the time. Choice gave us the run around and I got tired of waiting on then. So far Claro had worked for our needs. It's not perfect but works fine. We have a hot spot with our cells so we are cover either way.

Using Rey's table and based on our month in PR and projections:

Category                                   Ext. Expenses
Car Payment                              $0.00
Car Insurance                            $0.00
Entertainment                          $150.00
Groceries                          $300.00
Mortgage     or  Rent                    $0.00
Property Tax                            $0
Home Insurance                   $0
Medical                                 $150
Pharmacy                           $50.00
Electricity                                 $100
Water                                   $45.00
Propane                                   $18.00
Gasoline                                 $100.00
Cable/Internet                           $32.00
Cell Phone                         $120.00
Other                                   $50.00
Total Expenses               $1115.00

We are budgeting $2K/month to have some cushion but as you can see it may be way less than budgeted.

Before taxes my SSN would be around 2,200 a month and a little more if I wait another year. So that should cover most of my expenses in PR and with 300 from savings I will be sitting pretty. Federal taxes should be very low since my major source of income will be the SSN and to my knowledge a couple making around 31K a year basically pays very little with the exceptions.

Besides Adlin above, Tonie and Mac, anybody else care to share their numbers?

I'd really like to start getting involved in this thread.  Let me start with A/C.  I have spent virtually my whole life in the great interior valley of California. I grew up in a small town named Visalia in the San Joaquin Valley. My adult life has been lived in a town named Chico in the Sacramento Valley. I have lived through summers in this interior California climate where it's possible to have a summer month with 15 or 20 days where the temp 100° or more. I can let the interior of the house get pretty chilly and just put a few more blankets on but I don't sleep well if it's too warm. I will easily sleep with nothing covering me but spent six months in Punta Cana in a two bedroom apartment just a year ago and ran the air conditioning every night in order to be comfortable. I worked at a sports bar and restaurant that was just an open air place, but it was within 50 yards of the beach as the seagull flies. When I was working in my apartment at the computer I would run the air conditioning. It had mini splits.

We're all different in what we wish to tolerate, the main thing in regard to electricity in Puerto Rico is what will the cost per kilowatt hour settle out to. My company here in California called Pacific Gas and Electric has tiered plans for everything. Calculating my electricity cost in the summertime it comes out to between 18 and $.19 per hour.  (No I didn't make a calculation error, it's California everyone.) Even though the price of oil has dropped the electricity price in Puerto Rico recently, when PREPA and its creditors for the municipal bonds they issued come to terms, as has been said in other threads on this forum I expect a surcharge per kilowatt hour somewhere in the neighborhood of eight cents going into a "financial lockbox". If the price of oil medium-term comes up just a bit and stabilizes said around $30 a barrel or so I suspect power is going to end up costing in the neighborhood of about $.30 a kilowatt hour. If one subtracts the eight cents surcharge and subtracts a little bit for the cheap oil market right now we would get to around $.18 a kilowatt hour which is about what I pay in the summertime here. That will earn me an electricity bill of around $150 a month. I could cut it down a little bit with LED lights and the like but the air conditioning really is the major cost.

So the big question for those of you who are there, if you take the total kilowatt hours that you use in a month and divide that into the total bill from PREPA, do I have it about right and you're running around $.18 a kilowatt hour?

And just in case anybody knows I'll keep asking, I'm wondering if anybody has say a 100 gallon propane tank and regularly has a company like Empire Gas, Puma, or Tropigas, come and fill their tank. If anyone buys propane in this fashion, what do you pay per gallon (or liter). For just regular cooking, propane and using a gas stove generally would be much cheaper than electricity. But of course the devil is in the details. (I have another reason for wanting to know the bulk price of propane but will get into that later.)  To give you a frame of reference for propane pricing I looked yesterday at a service station here in Chico, California and their price to purchase was $2.49/gal. The Dominican Republic national government sets petroleum product prices.  On 1/30 they were a $1.71/gal. The current wholesale price at the dock in Houston Texas for propane is approximately $.40 a gallon (like if you were gonna buy a boat full). If you were a farmer in Missouri or Kansas last summer and you were going to buy a couple of hundred gallons from your regular supplier, you would have paid for propane about $.70 a gallon.  Also in Jan just FYI, regular gasoline prices were Chico, CA $2.19; Dallas, TX $1.50; Dominican Republic, $3.44 per gallon.

Thanks mucho for starting the thread Rey. 

Karl  or Carlos  or Karlos  or hey you

Note, more information on electric.  (What can I say I'm a detail, planning kind of guy. Just call me the Ted Cruz of Puerto Rican electricity.) So I got out an actual bill from this past summer for my one-bedroom apartment here in Chico. As I recall it was pretty hot. I used 894 kWh and the electric portion of my bill was $190. Gas was only $11. That works out to $.21 per kilowatt hour. Had I said that in front of our current governor he immediately go into all kinds of gyrations explaining how I had done this or that wrong in energy-saving and should get solar power. Welcome to California.  Texas pays less than a dime.  And by the way my thermostat is not set at 68 or 72, it's set at 78 or 79. The bill was for mid June to mid July.  So a $200 power bill for one guy in a 1 bed apt.  Lookin' to trim that a bunch, not go up.

Hey Carlos, about 6 months ago, the calculation for electricity was around .22 to .23 per KWH in the island. However in the last month several people gave em numbers and it looks like the gas price has gone down and the new rate for the entire bill seems to be running around .17 right now. The new AEE boniest arrangement, looks like is going to add around .03 more to it. So it seems to change based on fuel cost so we are looking at .20 to .26 depending on fuel cost.

Most people use the tall propane bottles, they are delivered or you can pick them up, they don't typically (that I know off) refill them, seems in most cases they exchange them. From what I heard it is 90 to 100 for filled ones when exchanging. It seems to last quite a few months, typically 6 to 10 months depending on use. Most people tell me 8 to 9.

Sleep and Air conditioner. My brother lives in Las Piedras in a valley next to mountains but his house is fairly warm, when I visit him, all he has are fans, which makes somewhat bearable but still too uncomfortable to sleep. I eventually sunk out with the fan.

A lot depends on the altitude and the amount of breeze, if you were to live in El Yunque, the temperature drops around 65 at night so plenty good to sleep. The closer you are to the coast and at sea level, the higher the temperature typically. I normally also need an air conditioner in summer to sleep.

Interesting,  Right now the temp in our house is about 78 at night (sea level, usually a breeze from the east .   No AC, just a box fan. 
We sleep ok, but it could be better.

I'm going to install a couple of ceiling fans soon.  We may need AC in the bedroom come summer, we'll see. 

Moving to a warm climate from the north takes some time to adjust for most folks.  I recall moving to east Texas from the north several years ago, it took a couple of years to acclimate.

Trying to understand the math and calculations when it comes to electricity and AC.

I live in St. Paul, MN and am looking at my electricity bills for last summer. I live in a 4 bedroom house with a total of 4 window air conditioners: one on the main level that runs 24/7 set at 78-80, 1 in my upstairs office where I work from home that runs all day only, 1 in bedroom upstairs that runs at night only, and 1 in kids bedroom upstairs bedroom that runs most days & nights since kid is home playing videogames in summer.. those 3 AC units don't have temp settings..just the dials for warmer to cooler and low to medium to high. Minnesota summers are actually hot and humid with several days over 90 degrees. My bill for August 2015 says I used 937 kwh at a rate of $0.086710 at a charge of $81.25. Of course, factoring in gas and all the taxes, my total bill was $146.. but the $81 was strictly for the electricity portion.

So, it sounds like the rates in PR are just over double what I pay here? Are they likely to go up even higher? I plan to move in 2017. I'm okay with paying $200 for electricity to stay cool..but I was kind of freaking out thinking we were either going to be uncomfortable or pay like a $400+.

There are several factors; houses in the mainland are insulated, not in PR. There either wood or concrete. Temperatures, in PR the summers are hot and humid. AC units, the higher SER the units have, the more efficient they are.
It is not the same keeping you house in MN cool than a house in PR. Your house in MN is well insulated to withstand the cold weather this translates to be able to keep cooler with less energy in the summer.

adlin20 wrote:

There are several factors; houses in the mainland are insulated, not in PR. There either wood or concrete. Temperatures, in PR the summers are hot and humid. AC units, the higher SER the units have, the more efficient they are.
It is not the same keeping you house in MN cool than a house in PR. Your house in MN is well insulated to withstand the cold weather this translates to be able to keep cooler with less energy in the summer.

I didn't even think about insulation. Thank you for bringing that up! My house in MN was built in 1907 so the insulation isn't the best, but I'm sure still much better than the houses without insulation in PR. I wonder how  much of a difference it will make.

Your 937 KWH are going to cost you todays about 159.00 or .17 per KWH.
Earlier in the year the rate was around .23 because oil was higher so your bill would have been 215.51. The current AEE plan with the bond holders is calling for an additional .03 cents, so assuming the gas does not go up much but with the additional 3 cents, your bill would be around the same 215.

How much air conditioner you use is going to depend a lot on the breeze you get and your location, some places are hotter than others and some have great breeze.

A central air may be the best option for you if you are going to have that many units running at the same time. Central air tends to be more efficient but the cost can be high and it may be difficult to install in a regular house.

I have a pool here in MA which runs 8 to 12 hours a day and 1 air that runs a good 10 hours a day and 2 that just run at bed time, the worst month ever was around 1199 KWH, but the house does not get much of a breeze. I expect I will use a lot less  electricity in PR. Depending on the bill I plant to look into solar power and see if it makes sense, but only if my electric bills are high.

I posted this in last years cost of living but a couple of minor things have changed, here is the update. We live in 35 min west from San Juan. Our cost of living for two adults per month is as follows

Rent $750
(3bd/2bth secured condo community w/pool)
Food/household items/personal care $400
Gas/tolls  $300
(driving 90 mi daily)
Water $25.00
Electricity $165
(averaged)
Liberty basic cable/phone/internet pkg $80
AT&T cell (no contract/phone unlocked) $45
Car upkeep $75
(we drive a lot and the roads here take a toll- oil changes, tires, suspension, etc)

Total $1840.00

That is very good numbers, numbers like that encourage people to come to the island. Thanks a lot Karenqc for the update. Having everyone post under one single subject makes it easier for them to find by just the keyword budget.
Thanks

Anyone else?

You have cheap electric up there. I am in Fl and pay 13c kwh

dianec333 wrote:

You have cheap electric up there. I am in Fl and pay 13c kwh

I wonder why the electricity rates differ so drastically?

In MN they get us on gas. Everyone uses tons of gas to heat their houses in the winter months.

I definitely look forward to moving to a warmer climate!!!

I love everyones posts to get an idea but it's still hard to guess how much things will cost me. We all have different lifestyles.

purplesugar wrote:

dianec333 wrote:

You have cheap electric up there. I am in Fl and pay 13c kwh

I wonder why the electricity rates differ so drastically?

In MN they get us on gas. Everyone uses tons of gas to heat their houses in the winter months.

I definitely look forward to moving to a warmer climate!!!

I love everyones posts to get an idea but it's still hard to guess how much things will cost me. We all have different lifestyles.

I would suggest you make a budget for your current location (MN) similar to the most complete ones above, then using the ones provided above make one for PR, compare against the expenses in the US mainland.

Some items like Internet access can have a dependancy on where your house is in a particular street. It is not always the case that all houses in a street have the same Internet options available to them. Somebody down the street maybe able to get 20 Gig speed with a particular vendor but you can not get that vendor and be stuck with 2 Gig speed and a completely different price. If living in a condo or Urbanizacion, likely every one has the same options and similar prices.

But yes your life style makes a big difference, if you have to drive 40 miles each way to go to work versus me only driving to the store a couple of times a week makes a big difference in car maintenance and gas. Same for eating out (we only eat out once a month), expenses for kids (I have 2 small dogs instead), etc.

But some things will be the same or close to the states.

I have not booked a hotel in Rincon yet, as I am hoping that there are small hotels cheaper when I get there. I don't need much, as this is not a vacation trip. Room, tv and internet. I am hopng I can live on SSI disability of $730 a month. I can do it here in US by living in 24ft camper and using RV parks.
Looking forward to getting off the plane in San Juan on Sunday and driving to Rincon. Still havn't heard back from a couple of people who said they would help show mw round. Guess they didn't mean it.

dianec333 wrote:

I have not booked a hotel in Rincon yet, as I am hoping that there are small hotels cheaper when I get there. I don't need much, as this is not a vacation trip. Room, tv and internet. I am hopng I can live on SSI disability of $730 a month. I can do it here in US by living in 24ft camper and using RV parks.
Looking forward to getting off the plane in San Juan on Sunday and driving to Rincon. Still havn't heard back from a couple of people who said they would help show mw round. Guess they didn't mean it.

I would look on airbnb for a place to stay!
I'll be in Rincon at the end of April and I haven't booked a place yet, but I plan to use airbnb. I've browsed it already though.. lots of options!

Did you rent a car yet? Charlie car rental has been recommended to me.

I imagine for a long term rental you can find a small studio apartment or a room in someones house to rent within your budget.

The price off wholesale natural gas has dropped 25% since Jan 1.  W Tex crude 'bout 20%.  In the northern US, heat is mainly nat gas & "fuel oil" which is basically diesel and is a big part of the household budget.  With all the wholesale market volatility AND the political/economic upheaval both now and in the near term future, it's very difficult to nail down predicting the energy cost for a mainlander's Puerto Rico home.  Yet it will be a large part of the picture.

The typical U.S. middle class individual that lives wherever building inside would become uncomfortable in summer, say Dallas, TX or Sacramento, CA for example, historically with inexpensive electricity would burn a lot of energy with air conditioners.  If one walks inside a Costco in Dallas or Sacto or San Juan, I suspect all feel about the same.  Costco's power bill's in TX @ less than $.10 per KWh are vastly lower than California or Puerto Rico.  One needs to start with an estimate of usage like some are doing here.  Because of the wholesale price drop, PR's are benefiting with lower per KWh retail electricity cost right now.  PREPA will eventually have to come to grips with an operational plan that does two things.  1) it will need to pay off what ever debt they are left with after long-term arrangements are made with creditors and bondholders.  2) need to clean up losing so much money on long-term residential cheaters and all of the giveaway programs they have with the various municipal governments. For example the big waterpark in Aguadilla run by that municipality can be profitable because they operate year-round without paying anything for their electricity and are subsidized by PREPA customers. Now that PREPA can't keep selling bonds for operational expenditures, ratepayers will have to pay back all the already used up free electricity for the waterpark that was paid for through municipal bonds. As has been noted elsewhere on the forum, a surcharge will be added per kilowatt hour and that money separately placed into a lockbox dedicated to paying old long-term debt.  Rey recently said he read where the surcharge was going to come in at three cents per KWh; it's been quoted earlier as eight cents. In the fashion of Yogi Berra's "it ain't over till it's over", we will have to see how much it actually is. After oil price and operating costs settle out a bit, I believe a more realistic price of where the rate per KWh will end up at is somewhere in the low 20s. (This is with the wholesale crude oil price being somewhere around 35 or $40 for some years.) If the surcharge ends up actually being somewhere in the neighborhood of a nickel, the netted out price per KWh will probably be in the high 20s for somewhere in the neighborhood of say the next five years. If indeed this ends up being the case many of us will need to decide about whether or not we wish to live in an air-conditioned space and plan appropriately. Given that I don't like living in hot interior spaces and want to spend office work time, I'm trying to plan.

Diane,

$730/month is going to be tight. But you will also qualify for goberment aids, take advantage of them. You can find small houses for rent around $300-350 it may not be in the center of everything. Look around ask the folks around you. In the island, the best way to fond good bargains is via word of mouth. There are some groups in fb where people place adds for housing and goods.

My uncle lives on that much so I know is doable, only difference is he owns his house.

Good luck and welcome to the island!!

Not much in Rincon. I guess Rincon Inn if that is all I can find. Airnb didn't have much.  I have already reserved at Dollar car rental, but thanks for the info. Guess I cant just buy a car if I move there. Have to change a whole bunch of stuff.  Getting to old for all this stuff. Oh well, if I love PR it will be worth it.

Thank you. It is nice to have some help with my large monthly check. I am kind of frugal, and don't need much.  I just hate the thought of all the paperwork I will have to do. Getting old is no fun but hopefully PR is.

Dianec333, I have not seen an RV park in PR, but I have not been in many places in several years. It may be possible to get a farmer to let you put an RV or something similar in a corner of his land, but I am not sure.

There are social programs and you would qualify for most of them unless they have a restriction on residency. You can get food stamp, probably help with Electric and water, and free medical. In some towns there are organisations that help the disable by providing transportation, meals on wheels and travel to doctors appointments. But I am not sure how to contact them.

Most assistance have a requirement of less than a certain amount and you are probably below that earning level.

So it may be possible, but I think you are going to need some contacts in the island and a lot of phone calls before you try to move. Since I am not yet in the island I can not be a contact.