Peoples mood. community and stuff

I think you just described every city in the world.

Would be sad if every city/culture would be the same.

'Eastern' and western cultures are different. For example: In hungary you do greet strangers and if you enter a shop you also greet. You do not do that in my home country. I feel part of this culture is more adapting/shifting to western europe where not the community but the individual matters most. Someone posted a good article about this explaining the cultural and community differences but i don't find it anymore.

Maybe that made my point of view more clear.

I have noticed the same social and community degradation. And I live in a tiny, really tiny, village. So it is not simply a "like every city in the world" issue.

If you speak Hungarian, or know someone who does, you probably know that there is a lot of political rhetoric (actual and implied) on the government owned or privately owned but government supporting radio and TV stations. A lot of the rhetoric is anti-foreigner (actual or implied), fear generating (The "T" word, terrorism, is now the "big" threat), and accusatory (the "left" is to blame for "everything"), the centralization of the government employees and offices, and in essences meaning a degree of attempted state control of the people and of economy is not working out so great on a personal level, as if ever could (i.e. normal human beings trying to feed their families, such as current teachers striking, do not care about the government's glowing "balanced budget" or GDP reports).

And corruption appears to be increasing (with "help" from the EU):

http://www.againstcorruption.eu/wp-cont … k_cee2.pdf

No wonder people turn sour.

TornadoHH wrote:

I've been living here for 5 years now (Budapest) and recently i feel it is really going down hill community wise.

I see more n more stressed and tired faces - in stores, on the streets etc. I always greet and try to be friendly but i don't feel this is coming back anymore.
People in general being really grumpy.

Please do not take it personally - I am glad to hear you had a more or less good time in Hungary for the last five years, but regarding what you write, I think this might simply be the result of you getting used to the place and seeing it more realistically than before. I am from Hungary originally but rarely visit. Have been back in Budapest recently after a long absence (been away for 3 years or so) and was actually very surprised by how good the atmosphere was in general, and how friendly and happy people seemed in public places. I mean, of course, by Hungarian standards. As a rule, people in Hungary are not particularly friendly or smiley. It had happened to me very, very often since childhood that friendly greetings were not returned, and people in general have always been grumpy, stressed and tired ever since I can remember. If anything, I really thought it has been changing for the better. I was almost shocked by how friendly people were in the post office, shops and restaurants this time. Yes, in general, Hungarians look a lot more depressed than, for example, British, American, Thai and Burmese people (these are people I am familiar with, not sure about others - I was told that Russians and other Eastern Europeans tend to be just as grumpy as Hungarians). I hope you manage to keep your spirits up, regardless of the environment you find yourself in. Good luck!

klsallee wrote:

A lot of the rhetoric is anti-foreigner (actual or implied), fear generating (The "T" word, terrorism, is now the "big" threat), and accusatory (the "left" is to blame for "everything"),

No wonder people turn sour.

There is a lot of truth in what you say and obviously, you have a very clear idea of the issues affecting Hungary. Not trying to contradict you, just my two cents: in my view this is the other way around. For some reason (I have given up trying to understand why) Hungarians have this mistrust and fear of outside forces ('foreigners' etc.) ingrained in them, as well as a very strong tendency to blame something or someone other than themselves for things going wrong. The current prime minister is a political genius. The key to his success is the fact that he gives people what they want: him and his hand-picked circle of leaders confirm and magnify people's deepest fears while simultaneously claiming to protect them from these forces they are afraid of. The current political elite also joins the common people in pointing fingers, blaming others (the Jews, the EU etc.) for everything that has ever gone wrong in the country. This government has been democratically elected by a great majority, and not just once but several times now. I personally do not think that it has anything to do with current politics that people turn sour; I believe that the current state of affairs in politics is nothing more than reflection of the desires, needs and attitude of the vast majority of the population in Hungary.

I'm sure you are right about getting used to things and seeing things differently. So after 5 years its really the every day life kicking in.

And i also do not want to give the impression that i think hungarians are unfriendly it's quite the opposite. I came here and was really surprised how strangers greet each other and overall a good atmosphere.

So probably i'm sad that i feel things are getting different. But for sure the political environment does not really help.

Also i do not understand why Hungary does not have more industry. Here are so many brilliant engineers, mathematicians etc. and good infrastructure. I know some engineers and they worked for german companies in Hungary for a while. Then when they got experience and speak english they went abroad to work for way better money (and half the staff abroad is hungarian ). Is it to blame only on hungarian politics or what is the matter?

TornadoHH wrote:

Also i do not understand why Hungary does not have more industry. Here are so many brilliant engineers, mathematicians etc. and good infrastructure. I know some engineers and they worked for german companies in Hungary for a while. Then when they got experience and speak english they went abroad to work for way better money (and half the staff abroad is hungarian ). Is it to blame only on hungarian politics or what is the matter?

You are asking very interesting questions here - I am afraid, I have no idea what the answers might be, but hope that somebody more knowledgeable will come along to shed some light on this. In the meantime, I wish you good luck and hope you have not gone off Hungary completely yet . With so many Hungarians now living abroad, the country will certainly benefit from the presence of expats like yourself, who seem to genuinely care about the place and the people.

As an incomer I have to make the effort to develop social links, get to know a few neighbours and develop friendships. I have not noticed any deterioration of friendliness over the past four years. Generally many people right across Europe are worried about war and the refugee crisis. These concerns are just as strong in London as in Budapest. In the countryside of both countries people also worry about incomers changing the flavour or culture of the place.
We are all constantly adapting to change.
Sometimes Hungarians are not immediately smiley people so reading different body language is also a key to improving communication. There are stressed out commuters everywhere in the world so I never judge people's mood when they are going about the serious business of just getting to work or school on time.
I am lucky that I no longer have to commute to work.

I am visiting the US at the moment and it seems I have run into a few customer service people who did not seem to enjoy their jobs either.
A big surprise because just 2 years ago on my last visit home I didn't really notice it that much.
I get on with just about anyone and am not afraid to smile or frown depending on the situation, I am very open and will go out of my way to a point to be nice to even grumps.
My husband is HUngarian and he will admit the Hu nature or culture is just not smiley or honestly friendly, I have cut most ties with old HU friends because I can see through their fake ways, very judgemental and too hard for my nature.
I have visited HU back 2 times in the old days, people have not changed much from then, even the younger generations who have never lived under Soviet rule are grumpy.
Was talking the other day in Vegas with a beautiful young slim friendly smiley cocktail waitress at the Palms casino.
I told her we were just visiting Vegas from Europe, never even mention HU. She said, oh yes, they never smile in Europe.
I can understand some old person who worked under Soviet rule long 10 hour days 6 days a week and got screwed over  with their SS in the old age being grumpy but even in HU some young things who live at home, have mommy cleaning up after them and are able to attend college and should be cheerful, still walk around with a chip on their shoulders, spoiled and rotten.
Our neighbors daughter  is that way, now she is going on 25, known her for 10 years now, no boyfriend around any longer as no one can stand that attitude for long. My HU husband can   not stand the girl ,never even says hi to her, I almost have to kick him to be nice or at least civil with her.

I lived in LA for ever, lived in New York city and never have run into so many grumpy soles as in Hungary.
We moved there to retire but the thought of dying there in some hospital someday with a nurse straight out of hell or having to see some miserable frowny face on my death bed is enough to make us sell out and leave there.
SE Asia sounds nice, at least they smile over there and they have harder lives then most in the west do.
To be 100% honest, I am not really looking forward to going back to HU when my trip in the states is over with.
Found I felt the same way 2 years ago my last visit. If not for having a few things in Hu and a flat, I have no problem going somewhere else to live where at least one can enjoy seeing a few happy faces and not be pulled down at ever turn.
Makes me wonder why anyone would want to live so miserable all the time. My next door neighbor always has a frown on her face ever time I see her, she is only middle aged too. She will smile when I say hello first, I always must be the first in HU to say hello or goodbye, otherwise I would only be sharing frowns with everyone I ran into there. No one ever smiles first no matter who they are or what their age is. Gets tiring ...
Not personal really when I leave HU for good I will only be missing the cheap dentists, food ,buildings and perhaps the parks, not so much the people.
After getting to know many Hungarians over 42 years, I know most times they are only nice to each other while face to face, it's not real. Known so many who backstabbed their best friends, stole, set them up for scams, stole their wives and double crossed them while wearing a fake smile and sharing a glass of wine. I can name a good dozen or more people who are like that. I often have told my husband that all my old friends are super nice, honest, sweet loving people and all the people he has introduced me to have trust issues and can't be trusted.
I told him it was sad, I felt sorry that even though he used to know hundreds of people in Budapest the 2 or 3 that were nice died, they drank themselves to death because they were too sensitive and that HU broke them.
Can't blame every bad thing in HU on the Soviet system, time to change things and not blame the past all the time.
My father was born just across the boarder a short 6 hour drive N of Budapest in SE Poland. I went there 2 years ago to meet my family. Some were in their 90's and still lived in the village, others came from the US, Uk and one 3rd cousin and her husband came from Budapest HUngary. That did surprise me some.
They were both doctors now living for 20 some years in the UK. Also a couple of very wealthy and highly educated cousins came from the US.  Guess who stood apart with an attitude? My HU cousin of course! It must be in the culture because we all had the same blood running through us, again sad...

Not as much industry in HU because the gov. sold everything out and closed down the factories.
My husband trained and worked as a student on Cespal Island.
We drove over to look at the old place.
Only a couple of small shop owners were open, most of the building had broken windows and were boarded up.
In the day, it was a very lively place, offices with pretty office girls running around, classrooms for training, things being built, a train running around the middle of the Island.
It was like a small village, places to eat, drink people also joked around allot and had fun at work even if they worked long hours.
My husband tells me some wild stories about drinking parties after work, people dating and feeling like their jobs were important.
Ore would come in one end and out the other end would come everything  from sewing machines, bicycles, motorcycles, toasters. HU made just about everything they needed except cars, which they probably would of excelled at if given the chance.
Now everything is closed down and things are all made in China.
My husband is not overly sensitive but he almost had tears in his eyes seeing how run down the old factories were and forgotten, all those skilled people now gone.

It is disturbing to think that people now believe the BS the media is feeding them.
In the old Soviet days people must of been smarter, they knew how to read between the lines with all news shoved down their throats.
Seems back in the old days people felt more like they were in it together, now it's every man for himself.

Well it is difficult to make friends with anyone who is not naturally friendly and does not smile. However , I didn't move to Hungary because I was desperate to make friends but I would hate to be a hermit. I like to move home and embrace change every four years or so and I tend to keep friends with people for a long time. The internet is very useful in that respect.
I didn't know any Hungarians before I arrived apart from one happy go lucky friend who lives in the UK.
I have made a few more friends, especially since coming to Budapest rather than the countryside.
When I am at my holiday home I rarely mix with the locals, apart from the occasional night in the local bar. This is because once I am through my gate I have got my friends visiting and I am also working in a five acre garden.
It is my opinion that we have usually only got space for about five close friends currently living close by and if married it could be less than that because time is precious, we are so busy in the modern world and/or have not got the time to flog a dead horse.

Your right Anne, love the expression flog a dead horse!
I have over 42 years old hair curling tales about  Hungarians double and triple crossing each other on both sides of the ocean.
Sad really sad will not spread gossip though right now, it's in the past.
Currently we know native born Hungarians that my husband knew as a teenager, then knew them in many places around the planet, France, Italy the US and now we run into them in Hungary where most have come to retire.
One couple should and could of been great friends with us, about the same ages as us, mutual tastes in music, fashion same sort of life experiences etc.
Sadly they seem to have gotten caught up in the material world way too much and have a snobby attitude. Something I just can not take in my late years.Darn our dogs were even dating for awhile, that's how close I thought we were.
I remember when the women was a newbie in the US about 32 years ago. She was well educated in HU but could not speak a work of English. I welcomed her into my house, into my personal family life and my family holidays.
My mother even had them over her house for Thanksgiving and many big family Sunday dinners.Pool parties at my house with my siblings around,even went into business with them, big mistake that one was!
Now in HU they never invite us to anything worth doing, more like just a short walk when they have nothing better to do.Never been invited to any of their family dinners or parties.
Fake people don't interest me any way, no time for losers as the song goes...
I once lived in Hollywood Cal. in a large old house as the only female with my husband and at least 6 Hungarian single men.
Sometimes the house was packed and other times just a few people living there. Of course no one was speaking any English but all the guys had American girlfriends.
Big pots of food cooking on the stove all the time, lots of free flowing wine and grass.
Everyone shared what they had, money, cars, food, seems those days of sharing and caring are gone.
Perhaps my standards for friendship are too hard for most people to live by, no I have friends from over 46 years ago, not a one is Hungarian though.

anns wrote:

a five acre garden

Unless you were simply being facetious, five acres (2 hectares) I would call a farm, not a garden.

Sorry I was not bragging . Well my garden is filling up with things eg trees, pond etc and some of the forest land is outside the fence. But it does take up a  lot of my time.
Because it is my holiday home I don't think I will ever have animals there. However this year I am planning to grow a few veg and we are planting a small fruit forest. So it is true I see it as a garden therefore it is.
The next point I would like to develop is the skill of bragging . Twice I have been on long car journeys with a Hungarian man and then a Hungarian woman and they spent the entire time, approximately three to four hours bragging about what a wonderful person they were, how they owned the best property,  how they had the cleverest children and so on and so on.

Neither of them needed me to participate in the conversation at all.

At the end of the journeys I knew everything about these people and they were both so thick skinned they didn't even realise I was just not particularly interested.
Is bragging a cultural trait?

anns wrote:

Sorry I was not bragging . Well my garden is filling up with things eg trees, pond etc and some of the forest land is outside the fence.

Forest? Interesting. If the land is designated as a forest, orchard, etc, my understanding such land was not legally salable yet to even EU nationals until recently. But I guess it would depend on the actual land classification.

As villagers living in a forest area there is a piece of the forest co owned by the villagers only. When I bought my two plots I also agreed to purchase two very small patches of this common forest. It's less than two acres.  I am allowed to keep pigs on it and forage like the other villagers. The good thing is that no one will build directly behind me and also the forestry commission will not harvest it.

anns wrote:

As villagers living in a forest area there is a piece of the forest co owned by the villagers only. When I bought my two plots I also agreed to purchase two very small patches of this common forest.

Ah, I see. The community ownership land issue.

Be aware, there are new laws that are moving to consolidate that "community ownership" and you might at any time be "forced" to sell out for pennies.

ExpatHungarian wrote:

the current state of affairs in politics is nothing more than reflection of the desires, needs and attitude of the vast majority of the population in Hungary

who vote.....

I completed that thought in my own way because there are a lot of people here, in fact there are a lot of people everywhere in the world, who have very different views than those who vote, but who have simply given up. As they see it, choosing between the left and right hand of the same monster does not matter, so why bother....

Sad yes. But that this also the state of the world today.

Yes if I remember rightly I had to wait about a year to buy into my share of the community forest land. It was around 2011 the law about foreigners owning forest changed slightly.  So I have about 7 acres in total obviously the family who had sold to me didn't want to keep such a small parcel of land in their ownership forever because they had moved on .

I'm not too concerned about any future changes because I literally paid very little for the land maybe less than 500£ but I would hate to see it cleared by the  forestry commissioners because they plant just quick growing trees in very straight rows and on our community patch there is much more variety.

Not all Hungarians like to brag but a fair share do.
One reason I now avoid many people we have known for years.
My husband bless him, never brags about anything, he is humble and sweet, one reason even the braggers like his company.
That couple we know who now lives in HU gets under my skin allot with their bragging.
One small example is this, no I am not bragging, just stating some facts, The HU women I know told me she attended beauty college in Cal. for either 2 weeks or 2 months time. She acts like she is Vidal Sassoon when she is nothing more then a "beauty school drop out".
I finished beauty college before she ever even started school, I had a toddler to take of and a husband but I still went to school full time, later night time to finish. I have my degree in cosmetology, worked in both high end and budget salons in 4 states, Cal. NM, HI and NV.
I briefly owned my own salon, realized I hate being a business owner and gave it up.
Was also a hair model for a well known international chain of salons from S. Africa and the man I had been an assistant for in Cal. was elected 5 years running by the gov. of Cal . to be the president of the barbers board for the state of Cal.
My sister and I used to model for him in big hair shows in Cal for the industry. This was all in the 1980's when we were young and cute and humble, most well known people with real talent do not brag, it is their natural gift to be talented.
He is world famous, even a hairdresser in Budapest knew who he was and was in owe of him.
Ok, not a big deal, but this women always disreguards any advice I may happen to give out. She seems to think she is a no. 1 hairdresser just because she went to school for a few hours as a student. I hate to say it but her hair never really looks right to me! Color is off for her  skin tone, always overbleached,etc.
I wonder all the time why she thinks she knows everything when it is obvious she is just bragging with nothing behind her to stand on.
I think most women could not tolerate her for long, she acts like she is the only women in the world that knows anything about dressing, makeup fashion and we could all learn a thing or two from her, like we are all slobs and need her advice. Gets under my skin. I used to think it was because English was new to her so she spoke so rude but no, she just is that way.
Does not really matter the subject, she always knows more then anyone else does even more then someone who actually worked in the field.
I still fell humble and have allot to learn about being a stylist, maybe we Americans are just taught to be more humble because no one wants to hang with a braggart.

That would be disregard , been away so long I have already forgotten my English spelling...
No wonder so many trying to learn English get confused, so many ways to spell a word with the same sound but different meaning.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Does not really matter the subject, she always knows more then anyone else does even more then someone who actually worked in the field.

I had a sub-contractor working on our house renovation who acted like that.

I fired him.

(I was Donald Trump for a day......   )

klsallee wrote:

I completed that thought in my own way because there are a lot of people here, in fact there are a lot of people everywhere in the world, who have very different views than those who vote, but who have simply given up. As they see it, choosing between the left and right hand of the same monster does not matter, so why bother....

Sad yes. But that this also the state of the world today.

Very true. In the case of Hungary, there is also the added problem that they made it deliberately difficult for Hungarians who left the country to vote (long story, will not go into the details here) and at the same time, they made it very easy for those ethnic Hungarians who live in the neighbouring countries such as Romania, and recently became Hungarian citizens through the simplified naturalization process. For example, I am still a Hungarian citizen and really wanted to vote at the time of the last general elections, but simply could not do it, they just made it too complicated for people like me who live and work in another country.

Only a small minority of us 'expats' cast a vote, but quite a few of the people living in Romania, Slovakia etc. voted, almost all of them for the current government, of course. This is just additional information; the election was not decided by these votes, in any case. There has been no real alternative to the current government in Hungary for years, apart from the 'far right', so this is another issue that there is almost nobody worth voting for unless somebody is either a fan of this government, or a hard-core 'nationalist'.

I think hairdressing can be a bit of a bitchy profession in whatever country. It's very rare that I find a hairdresser that I get along with and these days I prefer not going to salons because I feel so judged by the staff. I love home hairdressing instead. There are lots of little things I miss out on in hungarian society due to my lack of language skills. Hopefully I will improve in that respect. However amongst the middle class remaining professionals Hungarians do seem to be very competitive and critical of each other. Maybe that is just to do with job insecurities.
I have only the UK to compare this to and in the UK once you are qualified you are just accepted as able to improve and do the job and therefore get paid the going rate.

Hungarians don't like foreigners? Have you been to Belgium recently? 
It is Pan-EU problem, imo. Europe still lives in small tribal societies where thinking small is encouraged and even called patriotic (whatever benefits local elected officials). Europe needs EU desperately, else it will become more and more provincial in this global market. I am of course measuring everything from my Cosmopolitan perch, but I think the most needed improvement in European integration should be common language. English must be taught everywhere and should be part of mandatory school curriculum. Once people acquire common language they would start understanding each other better and fear and hatred would subside.

A few years back, when the "Bush Gang" was in power ( probably still are in power) we visited Hungary to take care of my MIL.
I swear at least a dozen Hungarians would ask me what I though about Bush before they even asked me if I was having a good time, liked HU etc.
Very political people, I am not into politics, had Native American close family on my mom's side, we all know how history treated them. My parents never voted in their lives in the US, Mom's native history and my father was an immigrant from Poland, he was just glad to be in the US and not cause a fuss, his dad was a commie in the revolution in Russia from what I was told, he liked to lay low under the radar.  ( Black sheep in every family)Bad enough as a kid if I told anyone I was Indian,German and Rus their eyes would roll in the heads, we learned to tell everyone who asked that we were French, I think that is too funny now days, America in the 50's and 60's for you!