Why is Indonesia so Appealing to You?

Hi Roy, this is Milan.  I happen to think similar although I do still live in Italy but it's been a month I'm in Jakarta trying to rent out my Villa that I have advertised since March and to this day with no result.  (Shows economy is in crisis here since there are not as many expats as in the past even to 17 months ago when I was here last and in 3 days advertising, my house was taken immediately). 

Since I live in both countries now alternately, I feel the sense of my mental state expands much more openly and positively than living in Milan (which is considered International) but feel closed and confined to the effect of that sense of nationalism felt across the board due to the unwillingness to embrace otherwise without first being defensive and critiquing what others can't offer Italy.
Here, the nation is open to all choices of imported brands as well as food and restaurants.

Also, life here (except for the traffic) has that gentle rhythm which takes time for expats to get accustomed to until they return to their countries and realise it.

I am now in the phase of living in both countries that the impact of difference between these two countries is enhanced even more.

So, that's my take on Indonesia.  I love it, it's just I also have to maintain life in Italy due to some practical purposes. 

Great to read your post every time.

Hi Milan,

That's a very insightful response in my opinion and many thanks for taking the time to share.

During my post graduate studies in art history I spent a great deal of time in Florence, and Siena (specializing in Trecento Italian art).  And during that time I had wonderful experiences elsewhere in Italy.   

My point is simple…if I didn't already live in Bali, my heart, mind, and soul would almost certainly bring me back to Italy.  So, I understand the draw and appeal that both have on you.

I have some good Italian friends that live in Amed, Bali, and they always refer to it as “their Almafi.” 

Indeed, Italy and Bali in particular share a great deal of commonality, and so too the energies and quality of life.

So, your situation, “drawn between two lovers” might just be a good thing, and something to savor.  That's just a thought.

Cheers, Roy

Well put, Roy.  Thank you.  As long as I can still continue on in living in both countries, I shall do so although, again, for practical purpose I will opt Italy as home. 
How interesting to know that you too have tasted life in Italy although not to the extent where annoyances took over but let's leave it at that.
Ironically, now that I am on my own, I feel more home there but definitely by the way I conduct myself in opting on what kind of choices that makes me happy the most.  This has helped a great deal in seeing Milan from a different perspective that of which I love and enjoy. 
Cheers,
Milan.

Why is Indonesia so Appealing to You?

1. Cheap cost of living
2. Hardly see any foreigners at all
3. Great Asian food
4. Excellent place to buy products for export
5. Unstable currency
6. Beautiful countryside
7. Nice people
8. Can live like a king on foreign income
9. Exotic place
10. Nice beaches
11. Cheap property prices
12. Nice climate

To name but a few....

I am not living in Bali yet, but I have made my decision to go and live there! Why so appealing? I guess we all have different reasons, and as a retiree most of Australians in retirement age go there because the cost of living, But not all; In my case a love the tropical weather, I grow up in a very similar country, sadly I have to escape from there for political reasons, Now I Feel that is time to enjoy life before I get too old.
Latin American countries share a lot of in common with Bali! Weather, type of food like pawpaw readily available and cheap there, friendly people, beautiful beaches, similar lifestyle, My only concern was the health System. What Expats do regarding health insurance?? I call a few health insurance companies recommended in previous forums , but the annual premium was very high!
I was relief knowing that HBF here in Australia do a un year policy for travel insurance that include medical assistance and only cost A$900. So I thought I share that for people thinking in taking health Insurance.

When I came back from Australia, I am used to having Medicare. With not having to worry for being sick or paying huge sudden bills incurred during hospital or doctor visits in Australia. Being in Indonesia, all is new.

For health/medical insurance, one of the best ones in Indonesia is AXA. My personal experience is reasonably priced for a premium cover service. Depending on your cover, you can include Asia and International hospitalization too.
It is seamless, trouble free with any claims, with a great agent.
But you have to be at least in the country 6 months in a year I think for expats.  But do check with the agent.

Sometimes, I wonder how could local Indonesian wage earners afford the hefty bills of hospitals and medicines if God forbid they fall sick. Good service here costs money, a lot of money. Especially if you are hospitalised, it is several times the monthly wage of locals.
Private insurance is too expensive for most.
In the past, they dont have a uniform BPJS (government health insurance), or they dont cover so well. It is getting better for the locals. But BPJS is not good enough if you want a good service.

Why is Indonesia so Appealing to You?
1. Cheap...
2. Cheap...
3. Cheap...

Everything to do with what money can buy...

The people are wonderful
The food is amazing
The countryside is shockingly beautiful

I had a little read up on crime figures and drug abuse stats after reading this thread yesterday, because I wanted some basic factual information before I added the following comment.
It turns out my gut feelings are backed up by the numbers.

One of the greatest things that struck me when I came out here was the almost total absence of crime. I started my life here in a tiny village where the old stories of people leaving their doors unlocked were actually real life. Crime was restricted a few minor offences that would hardly be considered worth police time in the UK, and was dealt with quickly, without a lot of messing about, but in a fair manner.
One kid stole some chickens but the owner found out and got them back.
The owner told the thief to call prayer and clean the local mosque for a week and that would be that -end of story.
He thief didn't, the owner beat the merry poo poo out of him - new end of story.
A man beat his wife. The village heads had serious words with him, and told him they would remove his ID card if he caused any more trouble. No ID card means you can't live there. Sorted. The local people had no wish to talk to someone like that so he was pretty much ignored by everyone.

The thing that really did it was a chat with a mate, a local intel officer. He thought his world was on the verge of the apocalypse because the reported crime number that month had gone well over 20 for the Wonosobo area. That's a medium sized town and all the surrounding area.
He was going mad about the crime wave, but I was so happy about the tiny number.
In hand with the lack of crime is the extremely low problem of drug fuelled fools.
There is some problem with that sort of thing here but it's rare and well hidden so it doesn't really bother normal people. That and the cops really hammer dealers, so the problem remains small.
Local have little clue what drugs do to a country, but I've lived in a place where drug use is at infestation level, and another where it's almost unknown - I know which I prefer, and Indonesia is the winner by a mile.
Jakarta has a greater crime problem but it's still nothing when you compare it to any medium size town in the UK.

Indonesia has a few things I dislike, and a massive number of things I love.
Hiduplah Indonesia Raya.

Yes Mr. Fred there are good things and bad things about Indonesia, but mostly good. Where I live there are hardly any foreigners at all, and that is a big plus in why I like Indonesia.

But I love food in Indonesie, especially padang and sundanese food and Bandung has so many wonderful places to eat. We are also lucky to have a special micro climate with cool mornings and evenings.

I love the way that people will find a way to earn a living here, like help direct the traffic at junctions and U turns or to help cars park outside restaurants and convenience stores for small money. In my country people become very lazy and expect government to give them lots of money every month when they do nothing.

I like the way that food sellers push their food trolleys around the streets in residential areas selling sate or nasi goreng or bakso or sayur in the morning. Hearing their different calls in the early morning and evening is very nice.

Great story Fred, and your experience in a small village in central Java is exactly that of mine here outside of Ubud, Bali.  In the past 17 years I've only seen a police car in our village once, and that was when our neighbor hung himself over gambling debts and the police needed to be certain that his suicide wasn't a staged murder.  As in your village, minor issues or petty crimes such as they exist are handled at the banjar level with little if any intervention by the police.  That of course is all part of the community living that goes on here.  One has their nuclear family, often all living in the same compound, their extended family of aunties, uncles and cousins, they all living in their compounds nearby, and the village itself which in a real sense is very much regarded as a further extension of family.

We never give a second thought to where our boys are, or what they might be up to when not at home.  We all look after all the kids in our village as if they are our own, and we all know who their parents are.  We all rely on one another. 

Another example of our self reliance is with fire services.  The closest fire truck to our village is a good 40 minute drive away.  Here, if there is a fire, and considering our use of alang alang or ijut grass roofing, 40 minutes is way too long, so the tradition of the kul kul (slit) drum hung from a tall tower will sound the alarm and the whole village responds to put any fire out before it gets out of hand. 

As the rest of the world seems to be running amok, I cannot overstate how much I appreciate our life here.  And most importantly, I couldn't imagine raising our three boys anywhere else.

Great topic Ubudian.

Indonesia is appealing to me because of it's location. It is so easy to fly to Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Hong Kong, Beijing, Tokyo and a myriad other amazing places in this beautiful world that we call home. Garuda Indonesian Airlines is currently one of the best airlines in the world and I love flying with them. They have a good safety record compared to some of the smaller airlines that I will not mention.

I also like the excitement of driving for hundreds of kilometres across Java island in a 4x4 and experiencing the "true" Indonesia that so many of us never get to see. Same goes for Sumatra,, what an amazing place. From trading with the Batak people near Lake Toba to watching the Pacu Jawi or simply exploring the ancient jungles of West Sumatra, or visiting old tunnels in Bukittinggi. Oh what a great place this is. Let's not even talk about the stupifying volcanoes.

Then there is Bali, a haven for expat retirees and Aussie holiday makers but still great if you manage to head north of Denpasar. A real tropical paradise on par with Hawaii, but a lot cheaper. My dream is to one day retire to Bali and live my life studying it's rich history and exploring the entire island whilst writing my memoirs.

What a wonderful country Indonesia is. I really cannot think of many other countries in this wonderful world of ours that we call home (apart from Japan and Hawaii) where I would want to spend the rest of my life. I choose Indonesia, an amazing place to live.

Great comments Hansson!

Garuda has indeed really done a great job cleaning up its act in the past 10 years.  As you'll probably recall there was that 3 or so year period when they were involved in all sorts of mishaps and lost some of their routes as a result.  They were even banned from Australia for a time, and parts of Europe as well.  They used to have the only direct flight from Denpasar to Los Angeles with one fuel stop over which alternated between Hawaii and Irian depending on the day of the week. 

I agree with your comparison of Hawaii to Bali, but with one essential difference.  Hawaii has totally lost all of its indigenous culture whereas Bali is still able to hang on to it, especially, and as you note, north, east and west of southern Bali.  However, the westernization of Bali continues…

If you're seriously considering learning about Balinese culture, which would in fact take a lifetime of study to get a good handle on, I can suggest two excellent books.  The first would be Fred Eiseman's in-depth work, “Bali Sekala & Niskala.”  The other would be Jonathan Copeland and his partner, Ni Wayan Murni's well known and more recent book, “Secrets of Bali Fresh Light on the Morning of the World.” 

I recall (hopefully correctly) reading on another thread that you are fluent in Japanese.  If you like the challenge of learning difficult Asian languages, you will find the various levels of Balinese to be ripe with such challenges, including a myriad of sounds which are very difficult to master.  Moreover, it is not a particularly pleasant language “on the ear” in my own opinion…specifically, common Balinese.   

And speaking of Indonesia more on the whole, and also considering that you have already been to a number of other provinces, there is that wonderful, albeit somewhat aged, five part documentary by Lorne and Dr. Lawrence Blair titled “Ring of Fire An Indonesian Odyssey.”  All five parts were uploaded on YouTube last year…starting with Part 1: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI0gUiUEIYg

Good luck with your retirement plans.

Cheers, Roy

Thanks Roy, those seem like some great links.

I actually studied Mandarin first, both written and spoken up to translation level and then spent a couple of years in Japan studying Japanese on a scholarship a very long time ago. Recently I've been trying to learn Sundanese but the pronunciation is very different to Bahasa Indonesia. Not sure if I will get around to learning Balinese though

We are all really lucky to be able to live in places like Bali and Java all the other provinces in Indonesia as well as in Asia in general. Particularly in Indonesia where the cultures and languages in each province are so diverse, almost like visiting different countries. We also have tsunamis, volcanic eruptions and floods but it all adds up to a very interesting and diverse lifestyle and I wouldn't exchange it for anything.

Indonesia as a whole has great potential. But mismanagement since the toppling of Suharto in the 1997s, has been problematic. There has been no single leader or driving force able to maneuver successfully for the advancement of the country. Many fails due to lack of power or even just rhetoric only and profit behind the scenes.

Garuda Airlines is a great example,of how when managed rightly can enter the world stage and compete ahead of the curve.
There were times when it nearly fail as a company and need rescuing by the government. Now it has become a national pride.

Suffice to say. In the right hands, it will be a game changer.
Indonesia, being the fifth most populous country in the world and 17,000 islands. When opening up its door to over 40 countries with Visa Free travel will surpass its neighbors over time.

I am from Belgium and moved to Bali. Why?
First of all I was totally fed up with Belgium/Europe. Overtaxed, overruled, completely leaderless and unmanageable.

So, where could I go?
USA: total lack of respect of people, even their own citizens (think of NSA)
Africa: seems quite unsafe.
Asia: friendly people and nice climate in several countries.

Where in Asia?
Bali seems to be one of the nicest places in Asia with respect to climate (manageable monsoon season and not too high temperatures), cost of living (a bit more expensive that other Indonesian areas, but muuuuuuuuuuuch cheaper than Europe), attractive to foreigners because of many nice restaurants and pubs, many foreigners so it is easy to make friends, and of course, not unimportant, beautiful and friendly Indonesian ladies.

What more do you want?

Kind regards.

Marc

Hi

Very interesting to hear of an expat from USA who, maybe I am wrong, but is judging living in Indonesia from the comfort of Bali. I personally have some area's, that you discuss, of which I would not agree. Living outside of any city and in Jawa Timur one gets a different feeling on whether it's a good place to live for foreigners. Yes it's a very economical place on this earth to reside, and in general the weather is predictable and very nice. In my 4 years of experience here the concept is by all locals that all Bule's are rich. So when buying anything from a house down to a bunch of grapes, they up the price, then get offended when one points out their error. Now don't get me wrong, I have met some very genuine and nice people here, and in general people are very friendly. There does seem to be an anti foreigner feeling coming from some government offices. But as usual money smooths the way. So in conclusion, if you are a rich Bule, yes it's great, as money opens doors and hastens certain long winded documentation. But if you are a pensioner with not much continuous income, then stay in the Bali area, or in a major city.

Mike

indoz2 wrote:

Hi  the concept is by all locals that all Bule's are rich. So when buying anything from a house down to a bunch of grapes, they up the price, then get offended when one points out their error.

This is an old problem, and one that isn't going away any time soon, but there is a fix.

Reply to the crazy price, "Ah, harga bule".

The humour defuses a potential situation, so getting you out without any ill feeling.
If you are a rich bule, accept a reasonable price increase as it won't hurt you, but it makes a difference to them.
So I get charged Rp8,000 for a bottle of coke in a tiny shop - I pay that or more in a restaurant, so why the heck should I care?

We have to remember, many of these dudes live from day to day on next to nothing, so let them rip you off a bit.
They're happy and it makes not a jot of difference to you, save you see a smile on someone's face.

Only if it's genuine and not just habit.   

Bali is famous for 2 prices.... Even for tourists...one price for foreigners - the bule price and the other is for locals - domestic.
Nothing to do with whether the seller or buyer is rich or not.

Locals also dont like to get ripped off.

My advice is to get a local give you the true value of goods or services. Ask around more.

In non-tourist towns or areas, you wont get these double treatments. Everyone the same.

EDIT:
I forgot to add.
It is normal to haggle. For example, you are offered a bunch of grapes, and you feel it is rather high, counter-offer 1/3 of the value. The true value will go from there.
Nothing to do with being a bule...

Thanks for your thoughts Mike.

The way I get around “harga bule” starts by the way I dress…an old tattered kamben (sarong), tee shirt with holes and well worn sandals.  I wear no watch or jewelry, and I keep my head low, my voice down, and my manners polite.  But, more important than that, I make sure I know what the local price should be, before I ask the price.  Then, if I don't like the price, I'll bargain or ask for the harga pagi (morning price) which at any time of day indicates that you want the best price.

The way I get around “harga bule” starts by the way I dress…an old tattered kamben (sarong), tee shirt with holes and well worn sandals.  I wear no watch or jewelry, and I keep my head low, my voice down, and my manners polite.

I can't do that because I'm loud and crass.
However, I love the way so many Indonesians see a reason to smile when they have so little.
Yep, I let some dudes rip you off.

Health costs are quite low...in Bandung the Borromeus Catholic Hospital is excellent in all respects and what you would pay for health insurance should more than cover your doctor's visits...I would assume there would be some good hospitals and doctors in Bali....be careful though of those private hospitals which heavily promote themselves and do not be lured into tripping off to Singapore.......anything really serious go back to Australia for treatment if unsure....

hm great topic @ ubudian but I personnaly never met any rich bule, @indoz2. Unlike the locals, most of them are pelit.
I think bules are pelit coz they dont have the money or they can pay but they always calculate everything like can not or just dont know what really being ikhlas/ scincere is.
Locals dont like to get ripped off too but most of them in general do not like to talk or to complain too much over money they have to spend when they give or have to buy or pay something coz we believe that money is not everything and we wont bring money when we die anyway, or they would just keep think positive such as maybe its wasnt our rizk and maybe it was a warning from the Almighty that we need to give more charity-and we belief charity can actually bring more whealth to us and etc etc, in short we have many reasons to feel embarrassed to talk about money or complain about it way too much and if those vendors are actualy ripp us off, we just forgive them. I personnaly do not like to bargain with small vendors and when I have extra money, I would prefer to shop at small vendors.
If I want fixed prices I would just shop at the malls where they use price tags.

Always fun reading your posts Dita!  Keep up the good work!

Cheers, Roy

Yay, thanks, Roy ! ^_^
just learned thats the famous Ubudian name is Roy, sorry I still learning about this site huhu

I usually let my wife take care of negotiating most things and anything that is quoted too high then obviously we can look elsewhere. I pay Rp25k for a haircut just round the corner (Rp45k if I had more hair or required anything but a number 1 allover), and I pay Rp38k to get the car washed every week and they return the car back to my home. There aren't many foreigners in my city so I guess I am spared the "Bule" prices most of the time.

Absolutely I am agree you are writing ... I am originally from Indonesia but living in different country since finished my college education
Now I am living in Australia and this year is 15years I was leaving my country.. Was back few times to visit my parents and family
I love all about Indonesia but still not ready to settle lifes there.. I love asean country but more love hongkong country
Here in Australia which I am living now absolutely different everything with asean country,, however because some reason I'm keeping trying to stay here
However when I read your writing.. Oh  no. That really make sense to thinking more about my country, anyway thanks for sharing some comments about Indonesia

Have good day
Cheers

After spending my life in Singapore for 15 years....I packed my stuff and ventured here after I'm sick and tired of the rat race to obtain work-life balance. Everything is an eye opener when I spend my first month here. Gradually, I switched from a cranky guy to almost peace mode. I wake up smiling and look forward the day. Yes I might draw good pay in Singapore but I feel pointless when I do not have a life. I get to spend my time differently in Indonesia. I really experience the meaning of "weekend" and holidays (even I do have holidays in Singapore, my job won't spare me a thought on that).
Although there is much to learn in Indonesia, at least I do wake up with a smile than frown. This is the way I'm feeling now...opinions appreciated.

That which makes you smile...how can one argue with it?   

Hi dita nice to reading your comments, however. I'm agree with you..
And yeaaaah Roy.. Is the famous and familiar person in this site.. I like read every comments of him
Even that bad or good comments.., he always be honest in what his explained
He also the most helpful person to answer any questions from members
Dita some of your words make me loughing.. When you said tidak semua bule kaya and rata rata mereka pelit. Hahaha
Salam kenal
Success selalu

Glad you enjoy reading my comments, Novia.

I am on this site since I dunno yet rarely visit the site and only till recently..,yup so far I learned Roy & Mas Fred and are the famous members and love Indonesia.


Novia, I ofc appreciate all foreighns oppinions about my cauntry, our country. I respect free speech, good or bad oppinions no problem but with a note thats its THEIRS opinions and those who interesting to know Indonesia and Indonesians should cross check their oppinions rather than being spoon feed by some foreigh's oppinions or their personnal experiences or better, experience and discover ourself to get an objective views.

Locals who "worship" bule (yes they actually exists :p ) and think that "any bule said and done must be correct, believed & followed " should also learn to avoid to eat whatever those bule said about their own country and themselves as Indonesians cuz when you let others act like they know you better than yourself you might want to fix your self esteem first.

As far as I know, foreigners or bule who come or decided to live indo- altho they often act like a king in our country, are actually not the best quality in their own country.
So mind you if some cant even filter their own words.

But we are all living under the same sky, we have nothing but our good deeds , thats why in general Indonesians ( like myself) are always welcome to everyone, and those who love Indonesia and Indonesians knows that -no matter what they complained or critisized, somehow life is easier here.
Even those Indonesians who live abroad, at the end they always want to come back home and to die here, in their homeland.

Again, this is my personnal oppinions based on my personal, social observations, whatever... :p

Salam kenal kembali, Novia.

Dita, that is the more accurate and honest analysis of bule in Indonesia that I have ever read in this Forum! Congratulations for truly understanding the bule in Indonesia and the bule here in this Forum. You have my deepest respect.

Thanks Saintjean !

I might have to point out tho, Indonesians in general are very welcome and not afraid to stranger in nature. Some bule might missunderstood that as "admiration" and use the same reason to somehow undermine locals, if you know what I meant.

Also as a muslim and like all muslims I know, we believe that we are living in one of God's creations that is earth and that we believe that we have nothing but our good deeds, I think even non muslims in Indo think this way also / influenced by Islamic thinking, this is also the main reason why Indonesians are so welcome to foreighns and when you hurt them or they dissagre they will keep it to themself or talk about it only among them selves,  only because its not a polite thing thing being frontal and they only want to make sure that those bule -I would prefer to use word guest tho, are always happy during their stays here.

I personnaly hope when locals treat you with our culture or even our believes , understand that thats how we treat other humans, dont be gede rasa a.k.a GR and somehow it made you think that you are superior and then telling us what to do and how to live our life.
Let Indonesia be Indonesia & let Indonesians be Indonesians.

Living like a king like I do everyday in Jakarta, allowing the locals to worship me and idolise me has to be the most boring part of my life. As I wander about the streets of Pancoran I am ignored more than the flat dead rat on the road.  And being the only 'bule' about means absolutely nothing to those around me.
I was not raised to treat others differently but to respect them but it's OK to be labelled the same as all the other bule you know or have heard of. You have never met me.
Ironically more Indonesians tell me how to my life than I would ever dare and judge me and my lifestyle. But being a guest here, I remember that  I was raised to respect people and accept them for who they are and thank them for their comments and walk away.

Ubudian wrote:

That which makes you smile...how can one argue with it?   

Me, obviously - I'm a really funny dude.

lukereg wrote:

I was not raised to treat others differently but to respect them.

Rock on, dude. 

Anyway, I think Roy has got the thread title a bit wrong.
After all, what's not to love about Indonesia?  Okay, maybe the roads, but the warm smiles and cure arses more than make up for that one little problem.

I understand the girls also have these, but I haven't checked yet.