Real estate shopping in puerto rico

David, thank you for posting your experience while buying a property in Puerto Rico. Food for fodder...

Please remember that for future sale and inheritance a mainland will is not sufficient.  Property here is "family" owned and judges and Lawyers make lots of $ on improperly informed mainland owners.  That's one of the main reasons you see so many abandoned properties here,; not that they are not interested, they can't establish ownership because of the family. And don't accept "don't worry about it now" attitude from RE people or lawyers... Been there... Done that!

Great points, David, thank you for sharing!

Thanks for the warning concerning establishing ownership.  I have heard this elsewhere.

Could you share more about the situation you went through?

thanks,
David

Thanks David for you for your info and insight in buying your property. We are not there yet but will store the info for the future.

Also I have heard many horror stories about "family" owned property and I recommend that anyone buying property here to research it fully.

Take care and Welcome to Puerto Rico.

Tonie

We're moving WHERE? wrote:

Please remember that for future sale and inheritance a mainland will is not sufficient.  Property here is "family" owned and judges and Lawyers make lots of $ on improperly informed mainland owners.  That's one of the main reasons you see so many abandoned properties here,; not that they are not interested, they can't establish ownership because of the family. And don't accept "don't worry about it now" attitude from RE people or lawyers... Been there... Done that!

Please be more specific about the inheritance issue.  What is the reason that property can not be transferred to the heirs when the owner dies?  Is it due to lack of a proper will or due to how the deed was recorded or other reason? 

When we recently purchased a property, we asked our attorney to record the deed (no mortgage lien or bank involved) in the name of our family trust.   This was an issue that seemed to be a bit unusual and the attorney said he needed to research the question.  After he looked into the matter, he reported that the deed could in fact be recorded under the trust.   

He explained that the legal model in PR follows the Spanish tradition of a a matriarchal society, which account for some of the differences involved.    We also purchased title insurance through a local title insurance company (even though it was not required since no bank was involved) to make sure that any possible old liens agains the property have been extinguished.  Sure enough, when he researched the title, he discovered a lien that had been filed against the property years ago  - there had been a dispute between the owner and a tenant years ago, the dispute was finally settled in the PR courts, but the lien had not been removed - after he was able to document the clear title, tax stamps were issued and the title recorded.    If a title has not been cleared of any prior lien, it will prevent future transfer.  That may account for some of the apparently abandoned houses??

The fact that PR is part of the USA and subject to our legal system made the decision to buy in PR (as opposed to some other foreign country where you can be ripped off / kicked out / jailed by corrupt officials) much more secure and for us a more trustworthy situation. 

When traveling in Mexico, Belize, Costa Rica, and other Caribbean countries, I have often  noticed a high frequency of houses that appear to be abandoned in  mid-construction - almost like they ran out of money half way through the project.  Why?  I don't know and can only speculate that the banking & construction business have a serious flaw(s), or is it the local economies that are too volatile?

Please comment.

I know in Rincon that people go to the office in Rincon and they can only tell people if a property isn't owed by the town .They can't even tell you who own the property. Not sure how the he'll the can run a town like this

Any real estate broker should be able to tell you about a given property, or advise you how to check on the deed record. 


I'll ask my agent and see what he says.

Thank you Davidtx!

I'm still in the search phase of things, and have a funny ritual I do every couple of days:

Go to Ovlix.com and do a look for new properties.
Go to Point2 for new properties (most of them just being relisted).
Go to C-List for random listings.
A couple of saved agent's sites to check what's new on their websites.
And finally classificados.....which is the best, but somehow not as user friendly as I like.

Of course it will take between 3 & 23 minutes depending on how long I have to drink my coffee:)

There are about 15,000 properties for sale in PR, many are not listed anywhere, you have to drive by and check for signs.
If you figure out where you want to live, drive around, look for owner sales, talk to the people in the area. Spanish a must for this as a lot of people in El Campo are not likely to use English.

Also you may want to look for foreclosures and properties in trouble with the bank. You may be able to "Assume" the loan or offer what ever is left to be payed on the property.

Remember that there are a lot of properties that been in the market for many months, some for over two years. So be aggressive on your offer and save.

Always good info from Rey.

Already mentioned by others as a source of info are the parcels that are published in e.g. "point2point", "Zillow", or Clasificados Online".

You already know that listing agreements and the real estate sales biz are very diff then stateside. "Exclusives" are not the modus operandi.

For example, Miguel Ortiz -Universal Properties- has his name posted on an overwhelming amount of those shown in "point2point", "Zillow" and "Classificados", and often as the "listing agent" with listings all over PR. Maybe 75% of those shown he has his mugshot in. I doubt he represents the seller. I think he simply hijacks the info from wherever he gets it--Clasificados?

I called him on one I liked which he was the "listing agent". No answer at the "office". Called his cell, Spanish speaker says no English. OK my bad, it is PR--but his website is in English, and not translated English. But the guy had enuf English skills to roughly say he would have Miguel call me back and to say he had my tel number (sure, caller ID). Didn't happen. Called again in a week. Voicemail, left him a message w/ the property detail. Never called me back. Same thing with another realtor named "something  something Beach Properties" from Rincon which I already posted about a month ago--though I note one of our members posted a good review of  them.

So Rey's info might be your best option.

Word.  Miguel Ortiz is one of the agents I was referring to in the original post who never returned my calls or emails.

David

A lot of agents dont answer to mainlander calls. A lot of people come, see properties and never make an offer or follow thru. So they do not take the meinlanders seriously.
I left info on Carlos from 24/7 realty. If you do not have his contact info let me know. He mostly works as a buyer agent and will work with the seller agents to get you in to check the property. He splits commision with the seller agent so you pay him nothing for his trouble. If unsure of what you want he may be able (for a fee) to get you a guide to show you the towns and what they offer.
If you need his contact info send me a private message.

You best bet is to work with an American person that know local people and can hook you up . Then let a lawyer do the paperwork . I find rentals and properties for people all the time.  I network with natives nd know about places that doesn't get posted any where or through a realtor.  It's all word of mouth. You get better pricing as well as not paying a realtor a chunk of money .So if you are looking on this part of the island let me know

Are there any INTELLIGENT real estate websites where one can search by the # of acres or cuerdas?   I am looking to buy a large farm $500,000+ but dont see any way to filter by # of cuerdas.  With ClasificadosOnline you have to look at them 1 by 1 which is horribly inefficient, and typicial of the way things work in PR.  When you see all those inefficiencies, you realize why, in part, wage rates are lower than in the mainland. 

In addition, I've found similar to what other have, in that most realtors don't respond to emails.  As such, I won't be buying from them.  Hard to make a sale when you don't put forth any effort.

I, too, have been  looking for a finca and it is fair to say if you find a realtor that you feel comfortable with in PR, grab him/her with both arms and don't let go. Different in PR. Hard to figure out why when a buyer sees a parcel that fits the bill and doesn't get a returned phone call.

Classificados lets you search specific areas where you are likely to find large agricultural acreage by area, type (finca) and price, e.g 400-600k though, true, not by  # of  acres, hectares, cuerdas  or whatever. With your atypical for PR interests--not many $500,000 fincas on the market at least thru advertising-- you can narrow the  search results easily on Classificados by choosing todos for area, finca for type, and then 300-700 thousand and you will have a quick starting point. Pretty good one.

The other two that are somewhat reliable in my opinion as I am sure you have noticed are point2point and Zillow.  Two stateside web based real estate advertisers, to me not as good at quickly narrowing it down as Classificados. Zillow was designed by 2 protégés of Bill Gates who spun off and started Expedia and Zillow.

Not sure it has anything to do with wages or workers.

We just returned to South Korea after a short reach to PR during the Christmas Break. We were in contact with Frank Lopez Realty months prior to our trip out there. He lined up many properties for us to view duration my our stay there. Some listings were ones we found on the Internet, other realtors, and own his listings are of course. Some renters were not willing to let us inside of the properties(other realtors listings). It was the Christmas holiday season so that's par for the course. One renter even pretended not to be at home while the agents were talking the phone so that we could gain entry to the house. My husband and I could hear them carrying on a conversation inside the home from outside. They even had pulled up the for rent sign out of the front of the yard. The house was over priced by the owner.

We have narrowed down our search to Aguadilla and Isabela and will return again in June.

I hired Frank Lopez to represent me in a real estate transaction last year, we are happy with his work.

Hi David, do you have an English-speaking contact at First Bank that you recommend? Thanks for your post. Very helpful!

I'm glad it's helpful.  I worked with Alex L. del Valle.  He speaks English, but these banks are large, bureaucratic organizations so there is a limit to how prompt and responsive he can be.  Good luck!

[email protected] / 787-896-8110

Sitka, just wondering if the Frank Lopez you are referring to is placed in Aguadilla?  My husband and I are in the process of purchasing property in Aguada. We consulted with F. Lopez in Aguadilla and can highly recommend him.

Asking people who live in the area where you want to buy is a good way to find property. You do not need a realestate agent but you would need a good lawyer.  If you are interested in the west coast there is a man near Mayaguez who finds good land for farming. He may be difficult to reach now due to no electric. If interested i will try and reach him.

I know two excellent lawyers in the south, one in Yauco and one in Ponce.   They saved us from what would have been a very bad deal. 

We were buying from sellers who assured us that there was a clean title and had already hired a lawyer to make the deed.   Friends advised us to check with their lawyer, who wasn't able to work with us at the time but told us that according to PR law, the buyer chooses the lawyer in a land deal.  She referred us to another lawyer who did a title search and found huge issues.  There are less reputable lawyers in PR who would have no problem with this.

If anyone wants a name, I'd be happy to provide it via private message.

Probably more than 15,000 if you count the ones "kinda" for sale places, i.e., no, it's not for sale but if someone wants to buy it, then yes it is 

scoutvt wrote:

Sitka, just wondering if the Frank Lopez you are referring to is placed in Aguadilla?  My husband and I are in the process of purchasing property in Aguada. We consulted with F. Lopez in Aguadilla and can highly recommend him.

yes, we used him for our purchase.   He was very good.  We also hired a title insurance company.

In our case, an old law suit and lien against the property was at issue.  He extinguished the lien (from a failed law suit) and was able to file a clear title to the property for us.

In my opinion, spending a little money to make sure everything is correctly filed and recored is very important.  Well worth the time and expense.

At the end of the day, you want to have a clear title that can be resold or transfered without problems if you want to sell in the future.

Sitka wrote:

In my opinion, spending a little money to make sure everything is correctly filed and recored is very important.  Well worth the time and expense.

And the peace of mind.

I'm interested in a REO, a bank-foreclosed property.  The negotiations with the bank have been interminable, and since Dec. 2016 the property has been tied up in court to resolve title issues.  My advice to would-be purchasers of real estate (or anyone wanting to do any sort of business on the island) is be patient!  Fortunately, I have time.

My question is, has anyone purchased a bank-foreclosed property?  I imagine that issues such as a title search should be much simpler.  Don't know that I completely trust the bank; I'd rather have an attorney/notary of my own to verify that the title is clear, but I imagine that the cost of such service should be marginal.  Can anyone confirm?

Don't know about foreclosed property...  but for the previously noted reasons, some costs invested to ensure a clear and marketable title is a no brainer.

Check with a couple of Realestate lawyers,  ask for a cost estimate before making a commitment - get some references.

If you are spending 150 - 300K, for a house or land, a legal bill of 1 - 2k  is nothing.

Hi Guys, will probably be moving to Rincon in January.

Question about real estate how aggressive can you get with the offers and would super aggressive offers lead to negotiations ending like in the states if people become offended?

I'm looking at this beach property nice near Sandy Beach renovated top floor, they are asking $360ish, even though it's besutifully renovated seems kind of high?

What kind of aggressive offers can be made in the current climate?

Also, anybody know how to find foreclosed REO from banks? Do you just contact banks or are there agents?

Rincon is one of the highest areas in the island, owners expect top dollar, going below 10% will likely result in a refusal.

Get an appraisal, otherwise you will be paying too much. But the asking price is the asking price, some Gringo will pay it in a few months because that area is what they like and they do not know the market in PR. A lot of expats in PR pay around 150 for a 3 bedroom house with a nice lot, but not on the beach.

A place like that would likely be around 220 outside rincon. Just a few miles away you probably get a much better deal. They see gringo and the price is set high because the gringos are the only ones buying in Rincon.

3 to 5 miles from Rincon but still on the beach, and much better price.

Many condos in the East of the island go for 90-150.

You can go with a bank for foreclosures, but you can use a realtor.

Please live in areas for a minimums of 1 yr before you buy.   Rincon is over priced, water and power issues all the time
I have lived in pr since 2014, these are the towns i lived in
Cabo rojo
Arecibo
Rincon
Aguada
Quebradillas
I am glad i didnt buy a place in any area without living there first, but neighborhood differ as well, in the towns
You need to also do a rick assessment
As for foreclosed property you can go on the
Banks website and puerto rico classifies online

Thanks for the replies

So I kinda need power 90% of the time as I will be working for home and internet power are a top priority I guess Rincon isn't recommended then?

Only reason I chose Rincon was for it's laid back vibe and supposed "safety" as my mom said areas in San Juan were worst than in our area NYC, kinda reminded us of our 3rd world country we came from.

Also to add I spoke to someone who currently lives in Rincon, and they said power usually goes out every Wednesday for a few hours, nothing a generator can't solve.

Also if the mentality is a gringo will buy real estate in Rincon, it would make the most sense to have your property probably hold it's value, as say getting a deal elsewhere on the island where it might never recover, or drop further?

My whole thing was is I have a price range of $1500-$1700 for rent, in a decent area, that's how much rent is in most places in San Juan, might as well buy a property, and pay the same.

Thoughts?

Rincon is definitely an expat bubble. I grew up going to Puerto Rico my whole life seeing my family is originally from there. Ventured out to Rincon last month for the first time and it was a heavy influx of gringos who are primarily catered to (many things in english as oppose to spanish). Ive heard the same as you with it being safe.

Im also from NYC and feel people like us (big city people) are naurally very aware of our surroundings and are usually street smart. With that said, Aguada is worth checking out if you'd like to be near Rincon while also immersing yourself more in the Puerto Rican culture. If you're looking to be among a lot of english only speakers then Rincon's your place.

I am a gringo so might work out in my favor? I don't know haha.

Yeah i am naturally aware of my surroundings, I come from a 3rd world country originally so not too concerned with subpar standards on some things, like power water going out doesn't really bother me, as long as i can get my work done. Even than I can tether and run off computers battery.

We'll see I'll check out the other areas, I don't have to be in straight up Rincon, but also don't want to go crazy the 6 months out of the year that i will be living there.

I prefer to speak Spanish as to learn it better besides swear words, but do like the back up of being able to speak to someone in English. Actually I don't care about the expats speaking english as more so about the locals, as I'm concerned about healthcare insurance, for my fiance who has epilepsy.

I called two pharmacies in the Rincon area and nobody spoke english, I called one in San Juan and the pharmacist spoke perfect english. Also medical centers in the whole western area how are they compared to San Juan?

Well I do know that medical costs are a lot cheaper in PR. However, a lot of medical personnel have left for the states. There are still towns that have reputable medical facilities and doctors (and pharmacists which are HUGELY helpful there). 

San Juan tends to have more people there who are bilingual. Which is due to the huge amount of tourists that visit. Rincon is a beautiful place and the flavor of the town is definitely different. I like how vibrant the town is and that it has a strong community feel. Are you able to visit before you make a decision? Whatever you decide I wish you all the best.

yeah i don't have to buy right away, just thought it would make sense as opposed to renting, especially in a tourist area like Rincon, where you can rent out majority of the time.

I'm also hating PR's architecture reminds of homes where I'm originally from, was hoping for Spanish style homes haha.

But we'll see just wanted to know what the general real estate market was doing and see if you could get any sort of deal in the western part, which it doesn't seem like you can.

In Rincon great deals are hard to come by and when they do they're usually snatched up pretty quickly.

Can you recommend a realtor in the Rincon area? We are interested in purchasing a home.
Thanks,

Hi Cherilee,

Not from personal experience but from others who have recommended to me.  There's Jennifer lopez owner of Tropical Coast Properties.   I hear she will always call you back.   There is also Island West Properties.  Heard great things about them too.  I recommend you go to their website and look at features listings. 

You've probably heard there are really no buyer's agent in PR.  So looking at their featured listings and seeing if there's a property you are interested in then contacting them is probably best.