Your experience of culture shock in Vietnam

Its funny but when I was 35 I moved from the center of the US where people are friendly and helpful to northern California, where no one knew their neighbor, people were curt and customer service was totally non existent.  Two years ago I moved to HCM City.  Even though I don't speak the language it feels like home to me. Now for a discouraging word... Its good that people put up alters to honor dearly departed grandma and grandpa.  But I wish they would treat them better in the last decades of their lives.   I always feel bad seeing old men and women have to step out into the street because people park their bikes, food stands, signs, sales goods and even construction debris all over the sidewalk. There should be some kind of enforcement to maintain at least 1.5 meter walkway on side walks.  A lot of grandmas and grandpas would still be with us if they had not had to step into traffic because the sidewalk was blocked!

Jim Duncalf wrote:

Its funny but when I was 35 I moved from the center of the US where people are friendly and helpful to northern California, where no one knew their neighbor, people were curt and customer service was totally non existent.  Two years ago I moved to HCM City.  Even though I don't speak the language it feels like home to me. Now for a discouraging word... Its good that people put up alters to honor dearly departed grandma and grandpa.  But I wish they would treat them better in the last decades of their lives.   I always feel bad seeing old men and women have to step out into the street because people park their bikes, food stands, signs, sales goods and even construction debris all over the sidewalk. There should be some kind of enforcement to maintain at least 1.5 meter walkway on side walks.  A lot of grandmas and grandpas would still be with us if they had not had to step into traffic because the sidewalk was blocked!

The grandmas and grandpas,the old men and old women that you mention
have survived poor education,poor nutrition,a war with the French,a war with the US and it's allies.
So stepping onto a street is a cake walk.

Hahaha it is about my experience on their means riding at a motorbike with thousands of motorbikes with unorthodox kind of driving!

Ok,  if lived here 6 months now and there is so much to be said for it.
But there are always reminders that you are in a communist country and the proper gander never lets you forget it, although the young people in Vietnam are smarter than the government and arnt fooled by any of it.

That being said , the traffic here is Mad !!! . The city roads are ok, they even have nice cars and good motor cycles , but no one has any idea how to drive,  let me give you some hints on how to survive this .

First the obviously, 
"Crossing the road " just walk , they will go around you, watch the cars, but keep walking and the bikes go around you.  NEVER STOP , it only confuses the locals who have a plan to drive around you.

"Red light" Stop !!! "Sometimes . Just because you get the green , dont assume the traffic crossing has stopped 😜 more often than not its still moving. People don't often stop for red lights at any time of the day or night, ( seems advisory) .

It's not legal to carry more than 5 in a car or furniture on top, but a bike can carry anything ( and I mean anything ) or anyone.
"One way !!! Depends on the direction they travel at the time.
Ithe whole place is kind of like the U.S. At the turn tof the 20th century when the motor car came along .  Laws are developed but yet to be understood or enforced.   I've seen taxies driving the wrong way up a 3 lane highway, and in most cases the
Lines mean nothing ( they seem to think the Center line is for driving down the middle.     " My advice " best not look out the window .

The bike culture is amazing though once you get on a bike here you will understand , I have one, it's a blast to ride here , but do yourself a favour , dont ride like the locals if you can help it , and take short trips

One other thing I should mention ( and perhaps I'm wrong about this ),
It's not a great town for single guys .  I was told " Come to Vietnam , a single mans paradise" ,  far from it.

Other than internet dating here it's tough almost all girls regardless of age live with there parents till there married, cant bring any girl home for private time in some apartments ( Vietnam law, not just hotels) , so it beats me how people ever get together here, ?   I see a lot of couples in the parks on Sunday's but if that's it , it must be tough to get to know each other.    "What am I missing here" ??

Yes i know and it is not a problem i haved learned already and i  so joyful about my experienced and i haved learned a lot and now it is so exciting!

As a foreigner you are a big shark, and can have fun.

People are having private time, thousands of love hotels.

Hi
In today's world of vast information and people you can talk to, this "culture shock" should be a very minor thing. That's if you are serious, willing to do your research and talk to as many people as you can. Forums like this are also very helpful.

My experience is the lack of responsibility. In many cases, the Vietnamese do not meet deadlines for them to finish their works unless they get penalized. Sometimes I got trouble of it and stressed of it. I got the answer. I do not mind delay anymore. I consider it is a part of Vietnamese culture. I experienced that I can not change it. I am totally localized for mental health.

Queuing and order does not exist. It's common to cut queues unless you are in a more reputable supermarket, where doing so may cause some embarrassment.
Do not be surprised to see 2 people park their bikes and just chit chat in the middle of a road. You have to circumvent them - their conversation is priority.
Since traffic laws do exist but not implemented, road sense is a matter of give and take. In time, one can adapt to it, and massive traffic bottlenecks can eventually be resolved.

I have been coming to Vietnam for several years now, this venture being my first time living in Saigon. As is the case in most SE Asian countries, meltdowns happen and you find yourself being that "crazy foreigner." That being said, accommodation and housing in Saigon has been extremely problematic.

My last home was great; in Cau Kho on the outskirts of Q1 and very near Q4 and Q5. Nice neighborhood with extremely friendly locals and a nice mix of Catholics, Buddhists, and Muslims. The Hems always lead to an interesting church, mosque, or unique shop. Owners and neighbors were fantastic and caring, price was right, absolute privacy with 24 hour access. Then came the overnight sale...

The new owners, without warning, started tearing the place apart without giving any notice to the tenants. This caused everyone to scramble and find a new place since the police could do very little. I have never experienced anything like it. Due to the time constraints, I had to move into a building off of busy Nguyen Cu and it has not been pleasurable. There are two tenants who drink 24/7 and causes a lot of problems. The owners do not seem to care and I fear a violent outcome is inevitable.

I'm currently looking for a new home (which is difficult in terms of budget and privacy) but these experiences are not reassuring in terms of staying here. Otherwise, I still love the madness, some of the people here, the markets, the excitement of growth, and the unbelievable food as well as coffee shops. No matter what happens, I'll still return even if it is just for a visit. This is, after all, Vietnam.

@ariscat:  how can you said that.
i dont agree your opinion. it is not us culture. u was wrong!
somtime u see any one who can make stress or trouble to you but how long did you have been here? how can u understand that people event conclusion the Culture. 

You need to know that the local context of time is 'rubberized'. It means you must expect possible delays owing the various factors beyond control. Also, they are very very poor in planning and time management skills. Punctuality is quite 'foreign' to them!

No doubt the country is celebrating it's  70th national  day, it's in reality open to the outside world only the last 20 years. Give it time to change. I have been travelling here for 20 years and can really see changes, unfortunately not all positive though. It will take another generation before things can get better.

What ariscat mentioned are truth. It's still happening today, no though lesser, thank god.
It gas to do with school education and most importantly parental guidance. I came across a group of students cycling 5 abreast and when a motorcycle honked at them to give way, they actually cursed at the motor cyclist. So, the school system still has not instill some civic lessons yet. What a shame.
Well as mentioned, things are getting better due to the flood of internet and foreign news which shows ither countries and cultures.

Jimbream, since you've living in Saigon, most of those old folks you refer to are more likely to be from side we were allied with. And poor allies we were. Which brings up my first cultural shock. In Vietnam there is no such thing as: "Tell it like it is." Blunt speech is considered poor manners in VIetnam. The general rule is: "If it doesn't hurt anyone, then it is not a lie." We have a similar concept in English, the 'little fib'. But in Vietnam the little fib is far more widely used. For instance; you want to buy a motorbike. It's a real piece of trash, but you think you're getting a good deal. You take it to your Vietnamese friend and ask his or her opinion. Their answer is going to depend upon what they think you want to hear. If you present it like you think that this is a really good deal, the majority of them will tell you exactly that, even if they suspect otherwise. After all, to give you contrary personal judgment might insult your own judgment. On he other hand, if you present your case as if you really think you're being taken for a ride, then they're more likely to agree with you, even if they think the motorbike is a good deal.

lirelou wrote:

Jimbream, since you've living in Saigon, most of those old folks you refer to are more likely to be from side we were allied with. And poor allies we were. Which brings up my first cultural shock. In Vietnam there is no such thing as: "Tell it like it is." Blunt speech is considered poor manners in VIetnam. The general rule is: "If it doesn't hurt anyone, then it is not a lie." We have a similar concept in English, the 'little fib'. But in Vietnam the little fib is far more widely used. For instance; you want to buy a motorbike. It's a real piece of trash, but you think you're getting a good deal. You take it to your Vietnamese friend and ask his or her opinion. Their answer is going to depend upon what they think you want to hear. If you present it like you think that this is a really good deal, the majority of them will tell you exactly that, even if they suspect otherwise. After all, to give you contrary personal judgment might insult your own judgment. On he other hand, if you present your case as if you really think you're being taken for a ride, then they're more likely to agree with you, even if they think the motorbike is a good deal.

I heard that most were sent to 'reeducation' facilities and removed of any possessions or land.
Well that's what an old cyclo told me ages ago.

I find it amusing that some people here tell me I am FAT and I have a HAIRY FACE.

It is usually said by someone with a mouth full of rotten teeth whilst smoking a cigarette and picking their nose.

I didn't know taking a photo of three people was bad luck for the one in the middle.
No wonder my mom in law does not smile.

Hi Christine, check these out  P;s, what happens to old  ( former ) members?   https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=352658

Hello , I have been married to a Vietnamese lady for 8 years now . Here are a few very basic but  important things I have learned about Vietnamese culture .
#1. Do not hug or kiss anyone unless you know in advance it is ok to do so. Hugging and kissing are reserved  for married couples so when you first meet your new family , don't go over to your sister-in-law and give her a big hug and kiss.
I grew up in an Italian  family where we hug and kiss everyone. Very inappropriate in VN culture.

#2. Food is practically worshiped in VN so they will continue to fill your bowl every time you empty it . When you are full , leave a half bowl of food in your bowl or on your plate . Otherwise , expect some lovely person to fill it again.

#3.When drinking with the men , do not ever try to keep up with them or have a contest with them . They will drink you under the table as a matter of pride . They have a toast that literally translates to DRINK UNTIL YOU DIE . They are not kidding . When you feel you have had enough , leave the table because otherwise they will continue to urge you to drink .
#4. Driving is not anything like in the west . Remember this to stay alive . It all about the Law of Tonnage . So the biggest and heaviest trucks have the right of way . The buses next and then taxis and automobiles . Then comes the scooter drivers and lastly the pedestrians . EXACTLY opposite of the west . If you are walking down an alley and a motor bike or car hits you , it's your fault for not moving over . It's much easier for you to move then for them . The scooters must yield to the cars and trucks . The cars must yield to the big trucks . THIS IS NORMAL IN VIETNAM .
Hope this gives a first timer a few good tips ! I have been there 8 times and thinking of retiring there as we just built a new family house . There are many contradictions is VietNam but after a while you understand why .

This is true.
A friend of mine ; her father would not leave. He stayed for his wife and children, so being South Vietnamese military / government he spent TEN YEARS in work camp. Yes 10 years.
He did this instead of fleeing. His wife is writer and was just honored by Vietnamese government . published author.

How many men would go to internment camp or risk that for wife and babies ?
Brave and selfless man . the youth of this decade will change things in 15 or 20 years.

Old men make War.... Young men die. Youth will gradually change grow the nation, that said : I pray Vietnam NEVER loses it's soul.
Vietnam is a beautiful chaotic maelstrom of energy and ideas just watch.
I will never leave when I come. God willing.

Good Morning Vietnam ... and blessings !!

V.V.

mspatique wrote:

Hello , I have been married to a Vietnamese lady for 8 years now . Here are a few very basic but  important things I have learned about Vietnamese culture .
#1. Do not hug or kiss anyone unless you know in advance it is ok to do so. Hugging and kissing are reserved  for married couples so when you first meet your new family , don't go over to your sister-in-law and give her a big hug and kiss.
I grew up in an Italian  family where we hug and kiss everyone. Very inappropriate in VN culture.

#2. Food is practically worshiped in VN so they will continue to fill your bowl every time you empty it . When you are full , leave a half bowl of food in your bowl or on your plate . Otherwise , expect some lovely person to fill it again.

#3.When drinking with the men , do not ever try to keep up with them or have a contest with them . They will drink you under the table as a matter of pride . They have a toast that literally translates to DRINK UNTIL YOU DIE . They are not kidding . When you feel you have had enough , leave the table because otherwise they will continue to urge you to drink .
#4. Driving is not anything like in the west . Remember this to stay alive . It all about the Law of Tonnage . So the biggest and heaviest trucks have the right of way . The buses next and then taxis and automobiles . Then comes the scooter drivers and lastly the pedestrians . EXACTLY opposite of the west . If you are walking down an alley and a motor bike or car hits you , it's your fault for not moving over . It's much easier for you to move then for them . The scooters must yield to the cars and trucks . The cars must yield to the big trucks . THIS IS NORMAL IN VIETNAM .
Hope this gives a first timer a few good tips ! I have been there 8 times and thinking of retiring there as we just built a new family house . There are many contradictions is VietNam but after a while you understand why .

Overall a sensible post mspatique .

Just a couple of points I disagree with.

#2.  For the first few visits,sure.
Then after a while,the women will get to gossiping and then you'll be forgotten.
Help yourself.
Or more often your male relatives will fiil your bowl, because food soaks up booze.

#3.  In my experiences,Vietnamese men drink like we did in Uni.
Pour it down as quick as you can and get drunk as quick as you can.
If you've got pace,you can survive the night(but the morning hangover will kill).

#4. ''It is the law of tonnage''.
Excluding the following groups:
- Kids in school uniforms on bicycles riding 3 abreast.
- Mum and dad with the 2 kids on a motorbike.
- Teens on electric bikes.
- That old woman and her food cart trundling down the street against the flow of traffic.

You touch any of those and you are truly stuffed.
In a car or motobike.
And that's something different. So is this.

The image is for entertainment and educational purposes only

I see you didn't disagree with my # 1 . Obviously you're not getting kissed much !  LOL ! I can't wait to get back to Lai Thieu . Just built a nice little house there with a private room and bath for my wife and I . I miss VietNam and my Vietnamese family very much . As you know it has a way of getting under your skin even with the traffic and pollution .
If there is someone out there thinking about a trip to Vietnam ... JUST DO IT  !!!!!!!!

Images for education..

Like. Agree on the way road works. Hydro semi truck in the United States there's no thrill like driving and acid tanker full of sulfuric and having a Volkswagen Jetta cross three lanes and cut off your Rocky Mountain double that is a unit 140 feet long 130000 pounds while you're jamming the brakes not to kill mama and the kitties the acid in your smooth bore tanker is trying to slam you through the front windshield and separate the trailers.
If you hit the fool who endangered her kids you can be sued until the day you die or even incarcerated.
So... Vietnamese traffic flow makes better sense in some cases I know this from driving flammables explosives and hazardous chemicals.
I also drove motorcycle for many years my first car was a motorcycle 500 C c Yamaha.
In Vietnam I will probably purchase an older Jeep m38 or CJ this is enough for me oh and a moped ... Or Ural .

Cheers ... it is doubtful I will be in any drinking contest as I had my lower intestines cut apart and sewed back together to survive cancer.

The food sounds wonderful!!!
V.V.

I am in California and considering coming to Vietnam. I have not been there before and speak no Vietnamese. I am a widow, no children, and I am very very tired of the U.S. I am wondering if it would be too difficult for me to find a place to stay without too high a price? I think it would be better to find a place outside of the city. Do you agree?
I plan to invest there. I was a stock market trader here.. lost enough to be a major blow. Now waiting for the next market fall so I can go back in and recover some funds.
what do I really need to do when I arrive in the Airport there? Look first for someone who could direct me to a low priced overnight stay?
Jo Peters
facebook/martha.j.peters

Really well said. I like your style. I'm considering selling all I own here in the US and getting out of dodge.  In my mind it seems VN. Or Thailand.  I'm sure I'll be at one or the other in 2016.

JUST JO
I survive cancer but it took everything then I had to have my left leg repaired as my knee was ruined between heavy construction and trucking.
Now at 55 I come to Vietnam to meet someone I've written for 2 years she's a very wonderful woman yes I'm a little scared but I would give those two teenage children and this lady my love and care.
I cannot really invest I come to invest in living a somewhat humble but better life.
Yes ... I too am tired of the race of consumerism in the West and in some respects Western society is very shallow.
I hope that there is still respect for elders and deep love of children in Vietnam because this is truly the treasure I seek.
Am willing to travel and stake  my future upon that.
Good Morning Vietnam ...
Humble people hard working great deep hearts.
Hope to find for best Life.

V.V.

Yo Mark ..
Still here. Ohh Yeahhhh ~

V.V.

Come
Show them what a heart we have. Americans are good people just the system has it's shortcomings , as all nations do.
I think Vietnam and Thailand are both fine but humanly ... on personal level feel deeper kinship to Vietnam.
Just me. V.V.

I'm 67 years old and will be moving to Hoi An, flying out of San Francisco this Sunday to begin my new life in Vietnam.  To the stock market trader, yes you can live cheaply and pleasantly in Vietnam.  Don 't hesitate, get yourself over there and see how wonderful it can be.

Tpinpma

Yo ~~

I am selecting luggage. Oh God decisions. Wow.
Instead of suitcases I want waterproof duffels.
Yes. Just heard from one of cubs it flooded.
Ouch. Ouch.
So waterproof is good. Yes. Delsey was my prior  choice and Victoronix.  But must be able to " lash " luggage together. Yes. Lash it atop one another with straps for airport. Fast transfers.
Bro ... I am nervous about right decisions.

One thing for certain; the USA and Europe are heading for a " No Prime " Bond situation, and there are no more silver bullets.
Asia sounds good. I love Sea, and would cherish the wildlife in the Highlands. Birds galore.
Beautiful. Yes.

Home is a place , of the Heart. Scary but cool !!

Cheers : V.V.

Kenless

Right you are. Fallow Dream : Cheers : V.V.

The old dictum, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do," has some application with modifications. One mod is when in Viet Nam do as an Americanman would do in some circumstances.  When a man sees someone who is having trouble with something he is trying to do, he could lend a hand.  As a foreigner with a European visage, lending a hand will instantly get you identified as an American. Americans are the only people who, as a matter of course, "lend a hand" and Vietnamese really appreciate Americans for that. If you are Australian, try it.  You will be identified as American until you say differently. This all goes back to the war and the penchant of GIs for lending a hand wherever someone looked like he needed some assistance, including  an older person who has fallen or someone is who is injured.

I like your thoughts . Very nice post and appreciated .. and good suggestion for the Aussies who seem to regard the Vietnamese as their children , much like the French .

I have another experience to share . My wife and I were at a party for the anniversary of the dead . Every year , this wonderful lady has this party for a member of her family and we attend . The men eat and drink and drink while the women do all of the work. This year when dinner was finished , I went out back where they were stacking the dishes for about 60 people and moved the ladies aside and washed all the dishes , tableware and beer mugs . The ladies stood there watching and laughing at me including my wife . I don't think they have seen a man do this before, especially a 63 year old man  . My back and knees were killing me the next day from siting on this tiny stool bent over a water faucet . VietNam is so much fun ! I miss them all .

Way to go !!
Thank You: Chris ... V.V.

I am trying to get to Vietnam and I have to go before I lose the children I want to make my own and a woman I've chosen to give my heart to big decisions because I could lose my income leaving early the US is what I'm told but there's nothing here to stay here for.

V.V.

In 2003 when I first went back to VN I was walking on the sidewalk in Sai Gon when a motorbike slid down near me. There was a mom and pop and a 4 year old on it.  What does a man do?  I went over and checked the man for broken bones because he looked as if he might have broken something. . He was OK. I asked the woman how she was and saw she was OK and standing up . I moved the child out of the street and then set the xe may up and off the street. A small crowd had gathered, not due to the accident but to the foreigner who was dealing with it. The voices around me were saying, "He is an American." I thought nothing of it until a month later when I helped several people come down from atop a wall at La Vang I got the same reaction. Then it came back to me the reactions of the people back then in the war when GIs helped men with loads or snatched children out from in front of trucks.. I talked about it to the fellow whose home I stayed in in Cam Duc up near Cam Ranh. He is the one who told me that only Americans acted like that. For similar reasons Vietnamese mothers with daughters who are divorced or widowed  and especially who have young  children pray for them to get American husbands. American men take the whole package and raise the children as their own. Men from almost all other cultures will not raise kids that are not their own and the woman's children must go to a relative. American men normally do not beat their wives.