Motawa Time

A couple young Saudi girls (early 20's) who I know who don't cover their faces told me this has happened to them before.  Sometimes they're even harrassed by Mall security guards!

No doubt this face covering thing has gone beyond its limits. Its time the authorities tell these M's about being lenient on it. Its just that its a cultural practice in the region probably more related to the Bedu tribes of Arabia.

Hey Beezer,

I am new to this so forgive the ignorance.........
Aren't they supposed to have thier faces covered? (and that is not meant to imply it is my wish that they do cover thier faces).
Because your a foreigner I take it there is some lienancy and your wife does not have to cover her face? Is that right???

Law states that everyone is supposed to cover their hair, but not their face. And religion (which is the law) doesn't involve the face either.

OTHERWISE when they go to Hajj (pilgrimage) and Omra, they would cover their face. But they are NOT allowed to do that when they visit Mecca.

Saudi Arabia is just a bunch of tribes, and this thing has come from that (tribe x, didn't want tribe z to see their womenz, so they covered them up, so then tribe z did the same thing). I remember being here 20 some years ago, there were just a few who covered their faces. But it's come to such an extent that even non Saudi's do it. I seen a Pakistani family who had their faces covered, and I know Egyptians do it as well.

I really have no idea, to each their own I guess. When in Rome?

When in Rome?

Meaning you want your wife to cover her face?

beezer wrote:

Law states that everyone is supposed to cover their hair, but not their face. And religion (which is the law) doesn't involve the face either.

OTHERWISE when they go to Hajj (pilgrimage) and Omra, they would cover their face. But they are NOT allowed to do that when they visit Mecca.

Saudi Arabia is just a bunch of tribes, and this thing has come from that (tribe x, didn't want tribe z to see their womenz, so they covered them up, so then tribe z did the same thing). I remember being here 20 some years ago, there were just a few who covered their faces. But it's come to such an extent that even non Saudi's do it. I seen a Pakistani family who had their faces covered, and I know Egyptians do it as well.

I really have no idea, to each their own I guess. When in Rome?

It is not the Law for women to cover hair

Alliecat wrote:

When in Rome?

Meaning you want your wife to cover her face?

Hell no. I was talking about the other people around me, who aren't Saudi but are covering up.

Nelson17 wrote:

It is not the Law for women to cover hair

As far as I know, Saudi law is based on the religion. And the religion involves covering hair. If it's not the law then why do they have the M's going around yelling at women to cover their hair?

Nelson17 wrote:

It is not the Law for women to cover hair

You're right, Nelson17... I keep saying this but some people just don't seem to get it.  If it WAS the law, I'd have been jailed many times in my year here

beezer wrote:

If it's not the law then why do they have the M's going around yelling at women to cover their hair?

It's about intimidation and keeping people (especially women) 'in line.'  It's the only way this society can continue to survive, in my opinion.

I dunno, embassy has told me otherwise. I'm pretty sure the law here can be bent and adjusted every few seconds depending on their moods.

We've all seen how we get treated at times, and then totally different other times. There is no standard I think.

It is law for women to wear an abaya, mutawa tell women to cover their hair because they can get away with it. Most women just cover their hair and then when the muttawa has gone - uncover it.

The thought of some men in KSA is that uncovered women are free and easy, therefore available!!

As the muttawas job is actually the prevention of vice ect.. then he is only doing in his mind is the right thing or he is just in a bad mood.

It's kind of like thinking that a skirt is too short of that a top is too low cut on a women in the west but we don't have people walking around telling women to cover themselves up, or do we???

I am very surprised that a muttawa was telling the girls to cover their faces; this is neither the law nor religious necessity.

He probably telling them off for talking to a boy and they should cover their faces in shame?

Alliecat wrote:

beezer wrote:

If it's not the law then why do they have the M's going around yelling at women to cover their hair?

It's about intimidation and keeping people (especially women) 'in line.'  It's the only way this society can continue to survive, in my opinion.

I think you get told to cover your hair because it distracts the men around you, so the Muttawa tells you to cover up to stop you getting attention.. Maybe?

Nelson17 wrote:

I think you get told to cover your hair because it distracts the men around you, so the Muttawa tells you to cover up to stop you getting attention.. Maybe?

Apparently I don't distract anybody cause I was only harrassed  twice since I've been here, both in the same evening, at Sahara Mall last year at Ramadan!  First guy was wild-eyed, crazy looking--and was screaming rudely, so I covered for about 30 seconds.  HE was distracted chasing down some Filipinas, so I removed it

But then, in the food court, a mutawa asked me very politely: please cover your head as a sign of respect--it's Ramadan.  And then he smiled at me. 

So guess what?  For HIM I kept it on.

Oh, and btw, I have it on good authority that many of the mutawa have been recruited from  prisons.

This is interesting!! I am going to be relocating to Al Khobar in Spetember, does this happen there too. If approached by the Mutawa do I have to cover my hair. On my last visit to Al Khobar I just carried a scarf with me but never covered. Don't want to do anything wrong.

VeronicaT wrote:

This is interesting!! I am going to be relocating to Al Khobar in Spetember, does this happen there too. If approached by the Mutawa do I have to cover my hair. On my last visit to Al Khobar I just carried a scarf with me but never covered. Don't want to do anything wrong.

Al Khobar is much less conservative than Riyadh.  As for covering when somebody is in your face, sure, why not?  It's not worth having a confrontation.  You can remove it again in 30 seconds.  The whole thing is ridiculous, really.

As a muslim woman who never usually covers her head I found it tough when iI first came to cover my head when out but now it's just easier to do it when I leave the compound than risk getting shouted at. I've seen it happen and everyone just stops and stares.... horrible and embarrassing!

BTW someone told me the mutawa don't wear the black ring to hold their headscarfs in place and their thobes are a little shorter than is standard, is that true??? xx

I dunno, little bit of this, little bit of that.

As for them being employed from prisons, I've heard that too. It is the only form or rehab they have probably.

And yes Zara, their thobes are just tad bit higher than the ankle. I dunno about the ring though.

No ring (eqal) and they have full beards. 

They're also easy to spot because they're usually storming around--just  head off in the opposite direction and they'll get distracted by somebody else

As for the time one was screaming in my face, I wasn't at all embarrassed.  As far as I was concerned, he was making himself look like a psycho (certainly not the image the King wants perpetuated in Saudia).

One must understand that there are two types of "laws" prevailing here. One the Shariah Law imposed by the state which is based on Islamic religious teachings interpreted from the Quran and Hadith , and the other the law of the Mutawwa which is enforced by them, having being given the authority to "propagation of virtue and prevention of evil" as their organization name states when translated into English.

The latter are given support by the local police to enforce charges on anyone who, in the opinion of the M, have violated a dress code or behaves in a "sinful" manner.

Once the police take over it automatically gets transferred to a higher level of judiciary and eventually ends up in the Shariah Courts where decisions of punishment are enjoined. It could be very dicey if it gets to that platform of legality.

I know a young Filipino Secretary who worked for me sometime back who was apprehended at Kingdom Mall accompanying a Filipina lady nurse who was not his wife. He spent months in jail and was finally deported back to Manila. She was too. The company tried hard to bail him out without any success. Another guy from the same organization was returning from Bahrain with bootleg in his car. Same fate. Masalamah

beezer hello my frind

i saudi and muslim , i would like tel u somthing you r right some Motawa like what u said and some of them not ,, and this is their job here ,, we r muslim country and u know that befor coming here ,,
there is a proplem for u here u can Solution with polite way ,,
please undrstand me i not with u or with motawa i am with rules here in saudi arabia .
adn welcome in saudi arabia if not enough welcome in my eyes

Hello All,

I only understand one thing from it Mens dont respect womens here in Saudi. Men want their wifey's faces covered because of their own brothers and father. Trust factor is low i can say very low out here. Male sees female with some weird thoughts thats the reason they want females not to show their faces and body posture by wearing abaya and to avoid attraction and unwanted trouble from men. Beauty is suppose to be appreciated not be teared apart. I see lot of shops with beautiful dresses for women and think when does female in Saudi get a chance to wear it.

Best of luck to all the females..

Anil
______________________________________________________

Things happen even if they are not planned......

It's a shame that 3 of Gods gifts are banned in this country. Drinking alcohol, seeing woman as they are and bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwiches.

But not necessarily in that order.

jillndave wrote:

It's a shame that 3 of Gods gifts are banned in this country. Drinking alcohol, seeing woman as they are and bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwiches.

But not necessarily in that order.

lol! This is the dumbest thing I've ever read! How comes drinking alcohol and losing your mind is a gift? And how comes eating the most dirtiest animal, that full of all kind of diseases is a gift, too?! Unless, that what your God teaches you, and I'm pretty sure it is not!

It's a shame that 3 of Gods gifts are banned in this country. Drinking alcohol, seeing woman as they are and bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwiches....

Really ? Your god is of peculiar sort then...ever considered the number of divorces, domestic and other violence, sexual abuse etc. caused by your "gift of god" ? Ever seen a teenager passed out in snow ? Not yours, of course, so you probably don't care. Please keep your "gift" to yourselves. Even better, please keep your ideals amongst your kin.

Orbiter wrote:

It's a shame that 3 of Gods gifts are banned in this country. Drinking alcohol, seeing woman as they are and bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwiches....

Really ? Your god is of peculiar sort then...ever considered the number of divorces, domestic and other violence, sexual abuse etc. caused by your "gift of god" ? Ever seen a teenager passed out in snow ? Not yours, of course, so you probably don't care. Please keep your "gift" to yourselves. Even better, please keep your ideals amongst your kin.

hey Ramon and mr 1 post, don't tell people to keep quiet!

This is a forum for people to express their views, have fun and chat.

Not everyone in this forum is a Muslim so does not share your views and it is not a Muslim Saudi run forum so people are quite within their rights to talk about pork and alcohol!!

Do not OPPRESS here!!

Easy Mr. 69 Posts, you're gonna get yourself a heart attack. We didn't tell anyone to be quite.
Some of them should, though.

Pleasure to meet you, Mr. 69 Posts, and welcome to the forum, Orbiter.

Ramon,

Ya'll read too much into it. Relax and take a chill pill.

Other of God's gifts are a sense of humour and an ability to laugh.
It was said in jest. Some people have lost it. They take life too seriously. Then the joke is on them.

I am not going to apologise if you want to leap up and down. That's your choice. Everybody has choices, I just like to make my own.

Have a nice day.
Dave

Not sure if this is an "Expat forum' anymore or a 'Saudi national" forum. Or for that matter a 'saudi national internet dating service'

We must have the ability to be open to each other and see the lighter side of posts and the humor it brings us during these discussions which are meant to share, mainly, and benefit from each other. I dont think its necessary to get into a slinging match here.

I know JillnDave personally and for sure he is not the insulting, hateful or evil kind of person.

Take it easy guys. Keep on smiling, Dave.

musicman wrote:

We must have the ability to be open to each other and see the lighter side of posts and the humor it brings us during these discussions which are meant to share, mainly, and benefit from each other. I dont think its necessary to get into a slinging match here.

I know JillnDave personally and for sure he is not the insulting, hateful or evil kind of person.

Take it easy guys. Keep on smiling, Dave.

My God, some good people just force you to like them. Well said, music man. You're the best, man.

Ramon,

jillndave wrote:

I am not going to apologise if you want to leap up and down. That's your choice. Everybody has choices, I just like to make my own.

Have a nice day.
Dave

Dave has nothing to apologize for.  As Nelson said, this forum is for EXPATS.  Many of us EXPATS are NOT Muslim.  We welcome friendly, intelligent, informed nationals ... but don't think you can come here and insult us or tell us what to do. 

We may have agreed to put many of our ideas, traditions, freedoms and values 'on hold' when we came to KSA, but this, my friends, is cyberspace--NOT KSA.  And you do NOT have the right to tell any of us what we can say and what we canNOT say.

Have a good day.

Chill My Muslim brothers :)As we all can read,Dave has not suggested anyone to eat or drink what we are not meant to,he just mentioned his liking or disliking(So what???) We got no right to point on him since its a Expat.com....Right?

We need to show some decency and Passion Btw Dave these things might be ban here but we know the availability is here and I bet even Govt knows this,so u guys r not deprived literally

I cannot see anyone on this thread asking for an apology from Dave. How did that issue pop up at all? Somebody is certainly making assumptions here, I think?

Hi All!

Could you please get back to the topic "Motawa Time"? Currently, you are off topic.

Thanks

nonz wrote:

Chill My Muslim brothers :)As we all can read,Dave has not suggested anyone to eat or drink what we are not meant to,he just mentioned his liking or disliking(So what???) We got no right to point on him since its a Expat.com....Right?

We need to show some decency and Passion Btw Dave these things might be ban here but we know the availability is here and I bet even Govt knows this,so u guys r not deprived literally

Nonzie is the BEST

Awwwwwwwwwwww. And we having so much fun.

OK, sorry. We (Riyadh bloggers) do drift from the subject at times, in fact all the time.

Such is life and times of silly bloggers. I'll try and behave.

I checked Sheetuls profile and was going to declare another interloper but then I noticed that Sheetul is part of the 'Team'. Big step backwards. .

Respect. Dave

jillndave wrote:

I'll try and behave.

Personally, I like you when you mis-behave